Bring out the dead

Open thread. Bring out your needles. Stick them in the politicos, the format, the post-debate coverage on the nets or online, each other ... or me.

Comments

[m.K. BRAATEN]

Desperation: Remove Section 33. Wow. What a stupid, last minute, desperate move.

[Carla]

This debate was just ok, although better than the last round in Vancouver. While waiting for the CBC's At Issue panel I switched over to Global National and noticed they have viewer comments via web cams. That's cool. But I'm a little tired of seeing the media bend over backwards to get viewers interested in their coverage. I am very aware this time around of the battle not just for votes but for viewers. I don't know how well that serves people still trying to make a decision. I think what works best is solid, well researched and reported journalism, objectively presented. And not at the mercy of political party spin and polling. There's just not enough of that!

[Darwin O'Connor]

I thought it was odd that they asked a question saying this election has been all about personal attacks where it has been more about policy and any other recent election.

Are the media so unhappy with the discussion of policy that they pretend it is not being talked about when it is?

[Carla]

Okay.. some voter on Newsworld just said that she can't believe how much research she has to do to vote, it's overwhelming she says.
Umm... well.... yes! Casting an informed vote takes effort. But consideration of such should start long before the last stretch of a campaign!!!

[Mezba]

I have to say Paul Martin won the debate well with passion. He trumped Giles Duceppe (great questions by the moderator BTW - is Quebec divisible - Duceppe clearly showed inconsistencies in his views).

Harper, his transit cut will not buy any new buses, his income tax relief is actually an increase and his child care policy is actually a baby bonus, could not defend his ideas. Harper could not show he would be ready to take over the country.

Paul Martin A+
Harper C
Layton C
Duceppe F

[Diana-Marie]

TVO reader poll results thus far:
Gilles Duceppe 1 %
Stephen Harper 28 %
Jack Layton 39 %
Paul Martin 33 %
Total votes: 3402

[Dana]

I'm becoming rather tired of the carping about "personal attacks". Too much of what the candidates and the media as well categorize as personal attacks are really attacks on behaviours as opposed to policy statments. When someone says x but behaves as y it's not a personal attack to point out the difference fer krysts sake.

[Diana-Marie]

TVO reader poll results thus far:
Gilles Duceppe 1 %
Stephen Harper 28 %
Jack Layton 39 %
Paul Martin 33 %
Total votes: 3402

[Dana]

A Conservative idea for building a highway: give everyone a bucket of gravel.

[Mikael C.]

Steven Paikin won the debate.

Paikin for PM!

Im a West Wing fan, and they had an episode about the Vice Presidential debate on last night, in which Leo couldnt stop smirking.

Harper should have watched. If he is capable of looking more disturbing when expressing positive emotions I dont want to see it. He did not look scary at the outset of tonight's debate, to his credit. Then he started grinning while answering, and it bothered me.

[Dana]

http://rickmercer.blogspot.com/2006/01/conservative-cabinet-revealed_09.html is Rick Mercer's inside scoop on the Conservative cabinet. Read 'em and weeeeeep.

[Rick]

Harper's momentum in the polls make the likelihood of the Conservatives geting a Majority goverment more and more possible.

If Harper gets a majority, we can expect the following.

The banning of gay marriage.

Canada possibly joining the USA in a unilateral war.

Criminal records for pot smoking.
(Pot smoking is not a crime. Murder, assault and arson are crimes. How many other things is Stephen Harper going to label criminal and give people criminal records for?)

An American style drug war with a focus on Marijuana.
Mandatory 2 year jail terms for people growing pot.
This is going to see thousands or tens of thousands of Canadians throw in jail. It costs $80,000 a year to keep one person in prison. This is going to cost taxpayers billions of dollars. Money that would be much better spent elsewhere.
This kind of policy has completely failed in the United States.
The United States has more of it's citizens in jail per capita than anywhere else in the world.
The NDP and Greens are both talking about setting an age limit for pot and regulating it like beer and wine.

The opening up of the abortion debate, and a vote on it introduced through a private members bill.

[MoDuv]

Mme Zerba,
A new phrase for the realm from your live blogging efforts--'smirk smack' for tory majority gov't PM-in-waiting Harpo's inappropriate, cheesy grins and 'I can't ffing believe they've swallowed all my lines' awkward gazes 'n half-smiles.

After calling a Harpo minority before Xmas while advising readers of this fine comments section to await Frank Graves's EKOS first new poll in January, I then saw enough movement over the hols to predict an actual tory majority, a prognostication now validated by EKOS, Strategic Counsel and Ipsos with the tory lead widening as the undecideds break and commit.

To all those Chretienite sore losers (hullo wk) who had egregiously trashed Martin in the entitlement trough-feeder expectation that they could replace Junior forthwith, insert a new gLib contender and then defeat PM Harpo's minority regime, I say 'wrong choice'--the coming gLib hiatus in the oppo benches may well exceed the last dry spell under Muldoon.!

So, Mme. Zerba keep up da Harpo smirk smackin!!!

[Mikael C.]

Im getting tired of hearing the scared of Harper stuff.

I think its political suicide to bring up gay marriage again. The only clear decision reached with any haste in that entire debate was that Canadians wanted Ottawa to vote on it ASAP and get on with real matters.

Besides, if the CPC brings up abortion or gay marriage it will provide the Liberals with so much ammunition the next election would be like what happened to Kim Campbell's Conservatives.

Personally, I think anyone growing pot without a medical license SHOULD go to jail. Its illegal. When its legal, by all means grow and smoke your brains out (keep off the roads after pls) but uintil then Its manufacturing an illegal substance and should be punished. Just not with mandatory minimums.

In terms of Foreign Policy, am I the only one that isnt terribly worried about another unilateral American intervention? I mean it took the US like 30-40 years to try another (big) one after Vietnam. I think Im more worried about my unborn children (I'm 22) being involved than my generation.

[JP Kanski]

I must agree that Harper’s smile-smirk was unnerving. He seemed to relax as the show - um debate drew to a close. Layton’s policy statements did come across like tv ads a few times too many, but he did mange to give counter point to the two Battling Corporate Pit Bulls . Duceppe got the best one liners.

As a Grade 11 Media teacher I found the constructed reality interesting. The control of colours, dark suits and a splash of colour. No mention of environmental issues in any large extent. The colour green was invisible. It is not easy being green when the tv debate doesn’t recognize that part of the political spectrum.

Did anyone else notice how Harper was having trouble figuring whose hand to shake ? Was he trying to avoid shaking hands with Paikin ? More amusing was how Martin tried to look like a decisive leader and walk off stage first. He went the wrong way and had to cross in front of the camera before the rest departed.

My 16 year old son thought both Martin and Harper were too American in style and content. He could not believe how CTV News analysis treated the debate - ignoring Layton and the NDP participation. As he put it - “ if all you saw were those clips you would think Harpy had won”. Another constructed reality. He wondered about whether CTV was backing the conservatives and where in Canada they are based.

[blamb]

Now's the time when we realize that a Conservative minority might not be such a great idea after all ...

[Aaron]

Andrew Coyne and Chantal Hebert think Harper won, but I don't think Layton and Duceppe did as badly as they said.

I moved to Quebec a handful of years ago, and voted twice federally: once for the Bloc; as a protest to Chretien and friends, and then for the Liberals; due to the riding I was in at the time.

This time I'm in one of the most multicultural ridings in Canada, and although I loved LaPierre on the radio, I want him gone from politics, so the only way is to vote for the Bloc.

Jack Layton has his moments, and if it wasn't for his stance on the Clarity Bill, and the fact that the NDP has a problem with budgets, I'd probably vote for him if I lived outside of Quebec. I wish he could get more votes, so maybe his talking to families, students, and seniors will help.

I'm not as sold as Andrew Coyne; and most of those commenting on his blog, and Chantal Hebert, that Layton and Duceppe were all that bad. Sure, Duceppe has looked better, but he knows his stuff, and he did uncover the scandal, and tried to uncover more scandals. That's reason enough for me, and his quotes are the best. (Mario Dumont is the only one better at it; he's the ADQ leader in Quebec, and they'll never win.)

Harper has improved, but the smirks have got to go. His party should also bring more communities into the fold, at least to run inside Quebec. The Bloc had to do so; we all know why. Harper should've said that he'd evolved from that comment Martin was going-on about. The SSM and offensive wars will keep me from voting, but if he wins, I'll at least look forward to the transit rebate; the NDP and Bloc can't win, but they'll stupport this move.

The Liberals have messed up the centre, so a new federal party is needed. I don't think Frank McKenna is the answer. Paul Martin will be gone very soon, now that he brought out the NwC into a live debate.

My situation is improving, but even as a unhealthy and poor individual, I still didn't want to vote way left, except out of protest. However, the Bloc and the NDP are needed until a centrist party emerges.

The Tories and the Liberals are similar.

Thanks for the space. I debated voting Tory for a bit, and the NDP; even though the guy here is into economics and separatism, but as I said, it's the Bloc, for me again. I'm leaning closer and closer to separatism, but I'd much rather see Quebec succeed within Canada, before attempting to leave. Quebec's PQ is right-wing, and a new left-wing party may give them a run, but not enough to help Charest's Liberals much.

Things can change. We'll see how many people do.

(Please ask the Totonto Star to fix their problem with the online edition. French characters, etc., show up very weird. CanWest had the same problem five years ago. Contacting the webmaster weeks ago, solved nothing.)

[Mikael C.]

I noticed the Harper handshake thing as well. I think it was more he was the fifth wheel. I'd love to see it again, but I would bet a loonie that Jack and Gilles shoke hands, Paikin and Martin, leaving Harper alone and awkard. He was more interested in shaking the leaders hands, when newsworld cut out Paikin had his hand out for Harper, but was not getting any love from Mr.Smirk

[Savant]

Martin, in his criticism of Harper's day-care plan, talked about the 'dollar a day' parents would receive. Considering that Harper's plan is for $1200 a year in benefits, methinks Martin's math is a bit off.

-Savant

[Montreal Simon]

Hey come on everyone. I've been known to look for a pony in a pile of horeshshit too But tonight all I saw was a pile of poop. Layton's message track was so wonky it was bizarre. Like when he answered a question on swingers by parroting the party line on healthcare! As for Martin looked like he'd gone eight rounds with Mike Tyson, back when Tyson could box. And Harper may have smirked a lot, and droned on like a talking Kenny Doll, but he didn't lose anything so he won.
Thanks to the free ride he's been given by our right-wing media, his stealth campaign has so much momentum he can coast to victory now. The masks won't come off until it's too late to do anything about it.If I was Harper I'd be smirking too. With the kind of media we have you CAN fool enough people enough of the time to win a Canadian election. I'm afraid we're going to get what we deserve.

[Dwight Williams]

So I'm not the only one who noticed the reflexive smirk. Good.

[Ardi]

Who won the debate? Who cares, who gets the vote is what's important.

The Bloc - for what I care Quebec can separate tomorrow if they want. They can take their share of the debt and apply for permanent residence just like everybody else if they want to live and work in Canada.

NDP - Too socialis, to far left, too big government, too pro union. No way.

Liberals - Centrists. Too long in power. Too much corruption. Too arrogant. Too many lies. Their line: We know better than You what you need and will promise it to you, but we will not deliver as we need those promises for next election.

Conservatives - Me and my family well being stend to profit most from the Conservatives promissed policies. Especially their day care support.

On a genearl note, removing the notwithstanding clause would be the biggest constitutional mistake ever. As the society eveolves, the costiturtion should evolve and so should the charter. Nothing should ever be written on stoen.

One interesting thing from Martin, he wants us to forget about Liberal corruption and move on but reminds us of a Harper speach back in 1994? Why the double standard?

On another one, Martin compares Conservatives child care plan to health care plan (tommy Douglas givin each family x dollars). Mr Martin, Tommy Douglas's Health care was free for all, your child care plan IS NOT. Stop the lie.

I can go on and on, ... but, what's the point?

[David Imrie]

First, take the Ipsos-Reid poll with a grain of salt. I worked for Ipsos in their Winnipeg office for a brief period (2002) and know their slant, and that their overall polling methods are highly questionable. Generally, they get and publish the answers their Tory clients usually want. Second, their VP, John Wright, is a dyed-in-the-wool Conservative. Although their polling showed past Liberal wins, working closely with the pro-Harper forces of the National Post and Global Television makes me very suspicious.

As well, I must comment on today's treeware column. What gives that priveleged little prince, David Frum, the right to comment on the tragic shooting death of Jane Creba or on any of the gang-related deaths in Toronto? He grows up a millionaire in the Bridle Path, writes speeches for George Bush, attended a private school and his mother was little more than a mouthpiece for Brian Mulroney.

Let the little candy assed prince spend five minutes on Blake Street. Bets on his survival?

[Joaquin Salvador]

My vote goes to Conservative. We need a young, fresh new government. I like the Tories because their platform: Tough in crime, Tax cuts (income & GST), Minimum Health waits warranties, encourage people to use public transit with refunds, $1,200 per child under 6 years old for families to help with child care expenses, Money for families that keep kids in organized sports avoiding future couch potatoes, Tax breaks for medium and Small business, which are 60% of the business and create jobs, And the most important fact, their integrity, they keep their promises. You can’t go wrong with these guys..!!!

Joaquin

[billonlogan]

Polling suggests momentum building with The CPC. Martin needed a knockout to stem the blue tide (CPC & Bloc) but could'nt get a good shot in. This is a democracy, do not fear a change in govermment. Its all part of the balancing act, give Canadian voters some credit.