Why I spent the weekend screaming

Really, you wouldn't want to be my neighbour.

The coverage of the leak investigation is starting to acquire a distinctly Rovian stench about it. Even though the White House is itself stunningly silent, the other root of all Bushit is on the case. The Sunday talk shows were full of the pro-administration talking points, with the NeoCon Numero Uno Bill Kristol leading the charge.

Kristol: The leak story is absurd, but I now think the whole prosecution is absurd. - I now think it's a politically motivated attempt to wound the Bush administration. - He is now out to discredit the Bush administration.

Kristol was backed up by a weird juxtaposition of editorial versus news reportage in the Washington Post.

The editorial page, a co-producer and then staunch defender of the war in Iraq, declared in a headline on Sunday that the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) info “Scooter” Libby gave to reporters in 2003 was in reality “A Good Leak.” The White House was not out to punish Ambassador Joe Wilson for raising doubts about pre-war intelligence; in fact, Wilson is the bad guy in this story for making false claims. Bush, in a sense, is the hero, for instantly declassifying the key NIE document - he was only out to inform the public. Now the poor guy, the Post complains, is the target of “hyperbolic charges of misconduct and hypocrisy” from the Democrats.

<SNIP>

On page one on Sunday, Post reporters Bart Gellman and Dafna Linzer observed that Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald this week in his latest court filing had for the first time described a "concerted action" by "multiple people in the White House" using classified information to "discredit, punish or seek revenge against" Wilson. “Bluntly and repeatedly, Fitzgerald placed Cheney at the center of that campaign,” they write.

Fitzgerald said the grand jury has collected so much testimony and so many documents that "it is hard to conceive of what evidence there could be that would disprove the existence of White House efforts to 'punish' Wilson."

Then, getting right to the point, the two reporters debunk their own paper's “public service” defense by observing “that the evidence Cheney and Libby selected to share with reporters had been disproved months before." Libby, allegedly at Cheney’s direction, "sought out at least three reporters to bolster the discredited uranium allegation.” In other words: Far from serving our citizens, the White House was misleading and manipulating them.

The inimitable Firedoglake excoriates Fred Hiatt, the editor who presumably wrote "A Good Leak." The really good parts I can't print here. If you're over 18, I suggest you click on the link and read it. But here's a postable clip, and media-related at that.

George Bush abused his power to authorize leaks to mislead the press for political gain. 

The leakers in the NSA warrantless wiretap scandal are true whistleblowers, people who risked much to inform the public about the Administration’s illegal activities. 

Fred Hiatt takes out a big-ass knife and plants it in the back of his fellow journalists by applauding the witch hunt being carried out by the Bush Administration.

(Media Matters has a less amusing but equally thorough evisceration here.)

CNN's media critic Howard Kurtz devoted only a few minutes of his hour-long Reliable Sources to the subject yesterday, allowing power mouth-with-no-brain Scott Johnson to slag Ambassador Joseph Wilson all over again.

Powerline's Scott Johnson took a trip to Crazy Land today when he spouted the lie, drawn from now disproven Republican talking points, that Ambassador Joe Wilson lied about his trip to Niger, among other things. Scott Johnson (no relation thank God) lives with the delusion that if you say the earth is flat then it must be so. Too bad for Scotty that there are historical records and transcripts. A look at source documents makes clear that when it comes down to Joe Wilson versus Scott Johnson, the liar is Scotty.

Of course, the progressive blogs are all over this, calling for Bush's head. But all for nothing. This threatens to die on the too-complicated-to-tell-on-TV vine.

Blow jobs? They're easy for late night comedy show hosts to joke about.

Too bad Bush didn't authorize actually leaking ON the reporters. That might have shocked the American nation out its stupour.

Comments

[Pilgrim]

I keep thinking about the Washington Post editorials, its stance on the Iraq war and especially this "Good Leak" editorial, praising Bush and excoriating the work of Patrick Fitzgerald.

Bob Woodward is a big honcho at that paper. He did a lot of blathering against the Fitzgerald Leak investigation, pooh-poohing it, saying it would amount to nothing.

The once-great Washington Post seems to be declining since the death of Katherine Graham and the ascendancy of Bob Woodward.

There's something about Bob Woodward, his coziness with Powerpeople. I just feel it.

[sooey]

a defensive administration in its second term going on the offensive tells us everything we always knew to be true probably is. but this is the question that really sends chills up my spine - what do americans know now about the bush administration that they didn't know when they voted it in for a second term?

[Jay Currie]

Well Antonia, while the lefty blogs are busy trying to get this molehill promoted to Everest status I am still waiting for Fitz to charge somebody, anybody, with a breach of some substantive provision of Federal law.

At this moment, after two years of investigation, it is not even clear if Ms. Plame aka Mrs. Wilson was covert or if her cover - such as it was - had been blown by Ames years before.

More to the media point: this is not to complicated for tv - rather, the attempt to implicate W in the outing of a probably not covert CIA gal who got hubby a job which he subsequently decided to write a tell all (or, to be more accurate "tell some") highly political op ed about is too complicated for anyone but a true believer to take seriously.

If Fitz has the goods then he should get on with proffering real criminal charges. Trying to leverage Scooter - who knows he's got a pardon waiting for him - is not going to work. What Fitz needs is something lawyers like to call evidence. You know, provable facts. Now, if he has them he'd have charged various peoplee with real offences rather than trying on a rather flimsy perjury case.

Meanwhile, just wondering but has there been a special prosecuter appointed to find out who leaked the real secrets of the NSA's counter terror tapping to the NYT? Just wondering.

[D.J. Allen]

Hang in there Antonia. This ball has got to bounce back and hit the admin in the face. I feel like they are so warped they will miss a beat soon on this file and it will smack them good. This is the picture I had on the deviousness - Rove went into action as soon as he heard about the Niger trip, put the bug in Cheney's ear, they got papers signed that declassified the IED and GW found out last week that he had signed them and is now feeling he was real smart again? Wilson is hanging in there, thank God, and continues working to get the truth out. I find it impossible that these characters believe the 'Muricans can still be taken in on this. And, then, I listen to Seymore Hersch and wonder if pre-empting the pre-emptors is the only way the country has a chance of stopping the carnage. It seems like a total nut house down there at the present. Do you think that a few more strung out academics will bail soon to join Henry Giroux and Michael Ignatieff? I expect so.

[D.J. Allen]

Sorry .. I'm really tired this evening. I meant to refer to the IED and Seymour Hersh in my original post.

[Jim Trautman]

Antonia, You hit the nail on the head about America - it is a nation with massive a psychiatric disorder that would open an entire new chapter in the DSM IV - psy. manual. How to explain a nation when confronted by its and its leaders own lies, deceit just ignores it, while mouthing about democracy, God and the goodness of America. Savages those that tell the truth (with documents). Even watching Bob Woodward one of the main men that brought Nixon and his illegal acts to justice, what he has become. Money and power means you can rationalize any illegal activity, corrupation, the tragic part is to watch an entire nation sit and doing nothing. That's the mark of a real dictatorship. The media and people go right along. In reality, if you asked most Americans what democracy was or if they go to church they would stand there with their mouth open. This weekend is Easter week, yet, most stores will be open all day for your shopping pleasure, some are reverent the stores are closed from Noon to Three the time that Christ was on the cross. No, America a nation that has negative savings rates, massive consumer and corporate debt with no hope of everypayng any of it off, has a population that continues to shop till they drop, gobble up reality tv, what the celebrities are doing (sleeping with doing drugs with) purchase homes that now in the last three months have been reaching record foreclosures due to no money down, hey let's buy a cottage to, SUVs (demand low gas prices). America has become the nation of instant gratification, (boredom set in with the war in Iraq after the first year), so let's move on to another country. No, rather than a nation to be admired America has become a hollowed out society that looks for its worth, not in a real morality or social justice, but by spending on junk that gets thrown away. America is not an Empire Rising, but one that is burned out and when other nations pull the plug on the debt a failed state. The people are to blame for the corrupt government on not just national level, but state and local. America has become like a drug addict or alcoholic, they have not hit bottom yet. Sounds negative, but being an American and having a daughter, and hundreds of relatives there (most Republicans) I think you hit the nail on the head and when I visit I steer any question away from politics or the social condition, because it has become a useless exercise. Give facts and get back nonsense. Listening to the talk shows about Iran, there is never a historical context put into the story. The tragic relationship that the Shah had with his own people, his dreaded secret police, torture and the reason for the revolution, why the hostages were taken, how the US backed and assisted Iraq in the war. No the media headline today, Iran on military manoeuvres as if it was something sinister. The US military has manoeuvres everyday. And Iran is a nation that knows what the intent of the US/UK and now probably Canada is long range. No there are as with any nation in decline hard times coming, but don't look for the soul searching to be correct. I often wonder where the socalled Liberal media exists when one turns on the radio, or tv - the discourse is all one sided and in reality no discussion of "real facts", it has been so amazing to hear that Al Jerzaria cannot be allowed into our airwaves since it is a propaganda network, should I laugh or cry.

[Jay Currie]

And for those who need a roadmap on the Iraq Niger connection so artfully denied by Ms. Plame's husband, Christopher Hitchens thoughtfully provides on in Slate:

http://slate.com/id/2139609

[Bill-Muskoka]

Jim Trautman,

DITTO!

[Hockey Fan]

BDS is a toxic combination of self-delusion, projection, paranoia, amnesia, and possibly dementia.

"Plamegate" is a great opportunity to observe BDS sufferers going into overdrive.

It is useless to argue facts with them. Better to just sit back and watch.

And because "Plamegate" involves so many different elements, BDS sufferers have no difficulty jumping from one aspect to another whenever you try to reason with them.

In fact, reasoning with one is much like having a debate with the fictitious Raymond Babbitt. You know, Tom Cruise's brother from Rainman. The response never has anything to do with the topic at hand.

Examples:

Me: But, isn't it a good idea for the administration to release the intelligence reports if they have been accused of lying about them?

Them: 225 * 540 = 13,500!

Me: Is it smearing someone when you present opposing facts?

Them: June 21, 2018 is a Sunday!

Me: Was Valerie Plame a covert agent when she suggested Joe Wilson for the Niger trip?

Them: I'm a very good driver.

Now, all of these responses may be true and demonstrate some level of sophistication but they don't lead toward an understanding.

And what happens when you pin a BDS Sufferer into a logical corner? Well, that's when it gets really interesting. They flail around like an enraged chipmunk -- call you names, frantically change the subject, send you dozens of links from partisan websites. It's not pretty.

But all the best to anyone who wants to argue "Plamegate" with a BDS victim. You'd have better luck arguing religion with that Ahmajanidad guy from Iran.

[Jim Trautman]

Jay, Your logic is terrific perfect candidate to live south of the border. Where is the special prosecutor for the NSA leaks> Here is a hot flash the leak was not illegal,but the NSA wiretapes were. My God, even the Congress admitted the tapes broke the law, so get your facts straight since the Congress passed a law to grandfather in all the illegal activity and allow the President to do it for up to 45 days. So, who are you looking for. The War on Terror oh by the way they are changing the name to the Long War - I wonder how many millions were spent on focus groups to come up with that brainer. No, the West has been disappointed since the end of the Cold War - who can we make a demon to pick up the slack. 9/11 was the way in and my my even the Brits admit that the bombers of last summer had no connection with Al Queda or anyother group. On that same page was the interesting story that the Metropolitian London Police the same force that killed an innocent man does have 74 serving members convicted of felonies. So who should I be more concerned about. Yes, there will be bombings in the future, but at this rate Al Q. is no different than the IRA or if you want go back and read the history of the late 1800's into the 1900's there were more bombings caused by anarchists that killed over 10,000 people. In fact, look it up there was a massive explosiion on Wall Street (still unsolved)at the end of WW I, there was a bombing at the 1939-40 New York World's Fair that killed two police officers (still unsolved). So lets get real, government exists today to scare, create paranoia so people like yourself don't have to think at all. Me I like to think for myself. What become of the famous anthrax, shoe bombs, I used to get those great emails about protecting myself about anthrax. What become of the swine flu that was going to kill us all in the 70's - the company that made hundreds of millions from the vaccine was controlled by Donald Rumsfeld (as Bill Clinton would state its about the money). Are you aware that the US has been burning nerve gas in Anniston, Ala. gave every family downwind including plastic sheets and duck tape to build a secure room in their house since the system breaks down so often. That they are burning VX gas outside of Newport Ind. and not the same thing for the local population. Ain't America great - no, I have more fear from the socalled US government than any of these are minor factors.

[Bill-Muskoka]

Jim,

You and I seem to have lived a parallel life experience.

Maybe it should be called the 'My Eyes Open Wide', scenario? MEOW! Yeah, see it even makes a good acronym, and Gawd knows we live in an age of acronyms. LOL

In this day and age our recall and facts are no longer welcome because they disturb the mass hypnosis that all things are A-Okay! The BDS

Who can hear a gentle MEOW in an age of ROARS 'Ridiculous Overbearing American Republican Stupidity'?

[JDot]

Jim T

Yawn. Captilist making money off fear no it can't be lol. I guess you did not purchase stock in Haliburton before the Iraq war?????

[Dana]

Just imagine what a wonderful 2nd term Richard Nixon could have had if The Washington Times, Fox News, SDA and LGF et al had been around to deny, deflect and distort on his behalf.

Currie (whose BushCo/neoconservative spin has become sufficiently explicit that his protestations of non-partisanship are now meaningless) could have joined right in with them too had he been alive.

Think of all the wonderful things Oliver North could have achieved too.

Never too late though. All those wonderful things are still possible. The US Constitution can yet be rendered irrelevant.

[Jim Trautman]

Hi Bill, Yes, you and I seem to have had many same experiences and have lived through the lies, deceit only to watch them repeated as if it was something new. As P.T. Barnum knew a sucker is born every minute and most ended up in the US. For a nation that talks about democracy and raging against evil, the American people have been so easy to mold. They speak words that if you asked them the meaning they would not have a clue. As for never accepting or being suspicious of authority that is a hoot. But it is easier to just go along like being in a gang then to think anything through. Americans have become scary due to their way of life which does not question authority anylonger. People do change as in my first vote I voted for Barry Goldwater, but then again LBJ promised not send toAmerican boys to do anothers fighting.

[Jay Currie]

Hockey Fan, Jim manages to prove your rather excellent point re BDS in his post. I don't have time to detail it but Jim manages to declare illegal tapping which was not illegal and for which no one has been charged. He manages to pretend that a long standing provision of FISA was passed to legalize Bush activities when it predates Bush in office. And, somehow, he manages to work in buring nerve gas, convicted felons on the London police force, mysterious explosions on Wall Street.

I was waiting for the black helios but no joy.

Meanwhile, Dana, as a long time Nixon hater I had a throughly enjoyable time watching the man nailed for actual criminal activity organized from the White House. On a ten point Watergate scale the non-event of Plame is around a 1. You don't have to love Bush to realize that despite the left's desperate attempt to give the story legs it simply does not have the substance necessary for real political traction.

The more professionl end of the Dems recognize this leaving it to the "base", "netroots" and assorted Mooreite/Chomsky folks to try to spin gold from dross.

I don't think Rove anticipated this but as the Dem's base salivate and scream for impeachment they simply reveal the disconnect between the lefties and the rest of the American public.

There are lots of good reasons to question the conduct of the post war period in Iraq. But getting knickers knotted over Scooter'smildly premature disclosure of a soon to be declassified document in the interest of contradicting a series of lies and distortions being put about by Mrs. Plame's husband is not one of them. So long as the left keep thinking they've found Watergate: The Sequel starring our man Fitz they will remain out of any loops which matter.

[Bill-Muskoka]

Dana,

Have you noticed how much President Logan of '24' and Richard Millhouse Nixon look alike?

Same jowls, same hair style, same sleazy, worthless, abominalable power pervert personality, able to lie like a rug! Only thing missing is the upstretched arms and V-fingers, eh?

[Bill-Muskoka]

Jim,

Ah, good old Barry 'BOMB THEM NOW' Goldwater. LOL

I always had trouble deciding if it was Goldwater or Kissinger who was Dr. Strangelove?

My first vote was missed because I enlisted in the Marines, and darn, those absentee ballots seemed to never have arrived in 'Nam! Didn't matter anyway because we were officially informed that having signed the contract we no longer had any Constitutional rights, only the UCMJ was law!

'Hey, hey LBJ, who ya gonna send to die today?'

I remember my last vote in the States. Bob (I think and speak of me in the 3rd person only) Dole was the Republican primary candidate against, whoever the other guy was.

I registered as a Republican just to vote against Dole, and save the nation's democracy. At least that vote worked. Then I could vote as I chose in the main election! hehehehe!

Another little point most Canadians do not realize. In the U.S. they have a 'primary' election in which the final contestents are selected. Most states require you be a registered member of that party to even cast a ballot for a candidate of that party.

Then the main election is held, i.e., Bush vs: Kerry, and the well thought out votes of the electorate are all meaningless because TADA! The ELECTORAL COLLEGE, that antiquainted, worthless system from the pioneer and early colony days, when the Pony Express carried the ballots to be counted, still decides who gets to be the Prez! Unless, of course, your brother happens to be the governor of the deciding state, then No Problemo!

Thank God I am a Canadian! Free at last, I'm free at last!

[Moni]

Wanted to look up the so-called Iraq-Niger Uranium roadmap and found this:
http://www.factcheck.org/article222.html

It appears the CIA doesn't believe that Niger seriously thought about giving uranium to Iraq or at least that was a loooong way off thus the rush to war was not a necessity. The CIA did (at least somewhat) agree with Wilson that uranium was not discussed in the 1999 meeting, let alone purchased and so the famous "16 words" should not have been in the State of the Union address.

My whole big thing about the war was, if it was going to happen (doesn't mean I wanted it) it should be done right. But Bush was in such a hurry. There was no reason to fight a war immediately. No threat Iraq was going to get wmds, no real identifiable threat Saddam was going to do any genocide stuff immediately. All the reasons given now for war do not justify to me why it had to be fought then.
So the US rushed in, didn't plan (or planned based on the world they lived in rather than the real one) and look at the mess.

But everyone forgets that now. Now they just look to old intelligence reports, pick their favourite bits and pieces while ignoring bits they don't like. That is what this leak thing is all about. (well, this part of the leak thing anyway) Selective disclosure of discredited material to manipulate the media.

I throw up my hands. Who am I supposed to believe anymore? It's not like I can ask questions myself. And so I watch the media and the commentary on the media I find here and hope I can get part of the picture.

Thanks Antonia.

ps - I hate all this "that's not what the Plame stuff is about - it's supposed to be about perjury and not the leak"
What if you found out that Bush killed someone thru the evidence found in the Libby investigation? Should it be ignored because it is incidental to the original investigation? Didn't think so. So stop telling people to ignore the leak. Looks like it happened. Get used to it.

[Dana]

Marvellous work, Jay. Really stupendous. Just superb.

[Scotian]

Jay Currie:

I used to have some respect for your writing, but your clearly content free posting on the Plame outing and subsequent investigation has destroyed that with me (Jay Currie | April 10, 2006 at 10:04 PM). I have been pissed off about this literally since the day that it happened. For domestic political purposes a covert (Yes she was clearly in the covert/classified CIA otherwise Fitzgerald would never have been given this investigation because there would never have been a basis for Justice to initiate it. I would also remind you that the original leak investigation was launched by the Ashcroft Justice dept although Fitzgerald was not brought in until Ashcroft recused himself for reasons of conflict of interest around three months after the investigation started) operative. Worse yet the whole purpose she was outed for was to try and make the case that Wilson only went to Niger because the wife sent him. That otherwise there wouldn't have been this trip in the first place because Plame was supposedly sending her husband so as to specifically attack the Bush war claim on nukes. A rationale that has long since been conclusively debunked, that you are continuing to perpetuate it as you are demonstrates your partisanship overriding any critical thought capacity you usually have.

Let us also remember that the main reason for the Iraq war was the alleged threat of nuclear weapons in Saddam's hands. It was the fear of loose nukes in terrorist hands that more than anything else got the support of the American public behind the war to launch it, not the multiple reasons since claimed for the war because the original one of WMDs completely panned out. So one would have expected that a covert operative working to prevent the proliferation of nukes would have been seen as one of the most valuable of all human resources the American intelligence community had. Yet to protect a clearly false nuclear threat argument for political purposes this woman and eventually her covert business identity was outed to the global intelligence network. If you know anything about intelligence work you know that this is a major problem for the blown agency and a Godsend to every other one on tracing other covert agents, understanding how the CIA sets up such businesses, etc. This is sources and methods stuff, not exactly small potatoes.

As to your Hansen argument, assuming it is true it still is irrelevant. If Hansen blew her cover it was with the Russians only and they would have no particular reason to expose her to the entire community. Even though if one wants to assume this would happen it does not change the most important fact, the CIA itself was still classifying her identity and affiliation with them. That fact is what determines whether there is a crime here and not whether Hansen might have blown her cover to the Russians. Nice piece of spin though like most all the spin on this topic it is empty of substance.

As to why there has been no underlying original charges laid AS OF THIS DATE (Remember this is an ongoing investigation and grand jury so this may well still happen) the charges against Libby are entirely relevant. Remember Libby is being charged with what he is because he lied to the FBI and grand jury and appeared to be doing so to prevent the Prosecutor from being able to determine both whether a crime had been committed and if so exactly who was responsible for what, hence the obstruction charge that is because it appears Libby tried to obstruct such. There are also indications he was not alone in such even though he is to date the only one charged with such.

As for this being a 1 on the 1-10 Watergate scale, you are off by an order of magnitude. This may well in the end surpass Watergate for illegality sanctioned by the top of the American Executive branch. The damage the Plame outing did to the ability of America to recruit quality foreign agents and sources was and is massive. After all, if one of the most deep cover agents in American intelligence can be outed for no better reason than domestic partisan politics, why would any foreigner trust the American government with their identities? The message this sent throughout the intelligence community itself also got the same message, that if something they share confidentially is politically useful the American government will have no qualms about making it public. This is not going to encourage intelligence sharing from other allies of their best quality intelligence, further impairing cooperation between such. Not to mention the destruction of her long term network established over many years to decades, the potential exposure of her network to their governments and receiving serious repercussions from them, and the further ability/insight into CIA recruitment techniques such examination will inevitably reveal. So this may well be far more damaging than Watergate ever was, it already has been in the intelligence world itself.

It is unfortunate Jay Currie that you chose to see this in strictly partisan terms rather than in reality. Something forgotten for example is that Wilson worked for Bush41, and was initially selected for this trip because he was considered reliable by the Bush run CIA. It was not until he started challenging the nuclear argument of Bush's that he went from being seen as non-partisan to being a Bush critic, yet since then it appears too many think he was always anti-Bush instead of realizing it was Bush's own deceptions on a serious issue, nuclear weapons, that drove Wilson to challenge him, and it was the outing of his wife that made him into a true Bush opponent/enemy/critic, and with good cause. Is he the perfect person with absolutely no flaws to him? Of course not. Does he have the background and history to be seen as credible and a serious person? Yes, which is exactly why he had to be rebutted by the Bush Administration as hard as possible, and their idea of rebuttal is to attack the credibility of the source rather than the credibility of the information/content itself. It was this very credibility which drove the Bush Administration to try the argument that his wife got him the job as a part of some conspiracy to undercut the Bush war rationale, otherwise there would have been no reason to ever refer to the wife. Incidentally I always found that line of reasoning also intended to play to negative stereotypes regarding men under their women's control and how such domineering women can not be trusted (The Hillary attack), but that is just my own opinion on that specific point.

The outing of Plame and Brewster Jennings and Associates was a very serious offence against American national security interests, period. That it was done for no better reason than to try and discredit a critic they could not discredit on the actual facts of the matter is particularly offensive. That there are so many in both our countries that fail to comprehend just how egregious and dangerous this was to the security of the western world is disturbing. Especially when many of these voices are the same ones going on and on about the danger of terrorism and the need to take all possible precautions, even when they violate both civil rights and basic human rights. I'm not saying you Jay Currie are in this category but far too many others that make the same argument regarding Plame/Wilson as you did are. I will add this, I would be exactly as pissed off about this had a Dem President did this, my outrage on this comes from the act itself and not who did it. I was raised by someone that operated at the highest levels of intelligence and secrecy for 33 years a period which included WWII and the Cuban Missile Crisis. I understand thanks to that background EXACTLY how devastating this outing was, and I will add by comparison the NSA story is far less damaging, yet that seems to be something too many on the political right in both countries see as really damaging. All that shows is the lack of understanding of how the intelligence world operates combined with political partisanship and not real concern, let alone informed concern.

[Dana]

I don't think there's any point Scotian. Every talking point I've read from him in the past weeks has been derived from Fox, SDA, LGF, Washington Times etc. Currie has drunk the koolaid.

[Jim Trautman]

Scotian, What a fantastic reply. I remember in the last days of the Vietnam War those thousands of Vietnamse trying to get on helicopters out. Ambassador Bunker did get his dog off though. The US did not even take the time to destroy most of the documents of the people that had worked with them and were being left behind. My niece was on the transport that crashed and killed some many children, she was one of the lucky ones. Parents had given their babies to get them out of the country. You are sure right about the trust and also once Plame is outted the people who were connected to her - as you put it what happened to them. I'm sure many innocents disappeared. For Jay this is the last time spare me the black helio bit (listen to night time radio Art Bell). I will attempt to explain my point one last time and then forget it since you are just into the nonsense jingoism. Point about the WW I bombing on Wall Street was that in America there have always been some enemy to confront. From the native americans, to Nate Turner, to the anarchists to the German American Bund, the Red Scare and McCarthy to the Dominos of Southest Asia to the Nicaragua of Ronnie R. (if we don't stop the Sandnists they'll be in Harlingen, Texas to O'Connor yesterday about if we don't stop them in Afghanistan they'll soon be in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver - they won't be here, but their herion will. The reality is nations exist by finding internal enemies or external - read your history remember the Jews and Hitler. After the Cold War the US needed someone or something to latch onto otherwise the defense industry was going down for the count. If you know so little of history and don't get it that's your problem. For sure you know nothing of the FISA that you speak of it does not does not give the President the power to spy legally and because you belittle does not make it true. Read your American history I lived it. After the Vietnam debacle and Richard Nixon in the Jimmy Carter Years the American public wanted to ensure that the Imperial Presidency was gone. The defeat in Vietnam, and a corrupt President created the atmosphere to take power away not give it. Look up the hearings that Senator Frank Church held about the CIA's activity in the 60's, Operation Phoenix and other activities that were deemed to be something that should not happen in the future. He looked at the overthrow of various governments by the US and even the Kennedy Assassination and its connection to certain events like the attempts on Castro's life or if organized crime was involved. From 1975 for the next several years Americans and the Congress (actually worked to look at themselves in the mirror searched their souls and did not like what they found and how events had happened). If it was legal for Bush to do what he did the Congress would have never grandfathered the act and even now gives him 45 days to wire tape away until he has to report it. Read up on some of the events and search back instead of just getting up and listening to your favorite talk show host sprouting jingoism and being to lazy to research or even do some fact checking. History is very complex and if not lazy go back and connect the dots. By the way the Bush family had two banks confiscated under the Trading with the Enemies Act for laundering Nazi money. That's a fact, but it mean you will have to do some digging. With the Bush's its always patriotism in pursuit of money. At least I served while George was blowing it up his nose. He did not take his scheduled physical to fly, because it would have revealed dark, secrets that he was a drug addict, so he disappeared. He was another guy if he was in favor of the Vietnam War so much he could have volunteered, but talk is better than honor.

[Jay Currie]

Scotian, I am waiting for the smoking gun which a) actually provides evidence that Plame was, at the time of her outing by the press "covert" within the legal meaning of that term, b) that Brewster Jennings was "covert" in so far as a corporation can be covert within the legal meaning of that term, c) that one or more of the officials in the Bush administration knowingly provided Plame's identity as a covert CIA agent to a member of the press.

So far I have seen nothing that suggests that Fitz has such a gun. If he did he surely would have charged Scooter with something a bit more substantive and less procedural (not that perjury isn't a serious offence; but it is not at all clear that Fitz is even going to win that one.)

The hysterics on the Left are so entirely Bush deranged that they are perfectly willing to ignore any evidence which suggests that there was good reason to believe Amb. Wilson's report and subsequent op-ed were incorrect. The "Bush Lied, sixteen words" meme is an article of faith and so not even these undisputed facts, related by Christopher Hitchens in the Slate article cited above,

"In February 1999, Zahawie left his Vatican office for a few days and paid an official visit to Niger, a country known for absolutely nothing except its vast deposits of uranium ore. It was from Niger that Iraq had originally acquired uranium in 1981, as confirmed in the Duelfer Report. In order to take the Joseph Wilson view of this Baathist ambassadorial initiative, you have to be able to believe that Saddam Hussein's long-term main man on nuclear issues was in Niger to talk about something other than the obvious."

can be allowed to tip that precious apple cart.

Mrs. Plame's identity as a CIA asset may or may not have been leaked by the Bush White House. Washington is a very small town and the intelligence/foreign policy community within Washington is even smaller. Journalists like Robert Novack or Judith Miller are often aware of information which is not specifically sourced and not particularily newsworthy.

An off the record discussion with a non-White House intelligence factotum about Joe Wilson could easily have yeilded the nugget, "Sure Joe is a blowhard idiot, but that wife of his does killer work at Brewster Jennings." Putting two and two together the reporter could pretty easily conclude Mrs. Wilson was CIA.

But that sort of explaination is inadmissable for people with BDS. It simply does not fit the master narrative that all bad things in this world (and likely the next) come from the wicked confluence of Rove, Cheney and the talking chimp.

(As a side note: I have always wondered at the smear value of Mrs. Wilson's CIA connection. Propose you are Karl in the center of the web. Wilson writes his Op-ed. Would the first thing you think of the discredit Wilson be, "His wife's CIA?" I would think, if anything, her CIA connection would tend to bolster Wilson's limited credibility. (Of course it is inconceivable that the pro-Saudi, pro-Arab, pro status quo, folks at the CIA could have outed Mrs Wilson for their own purposes. After all, as good leftists know, the CIA is staffed with gentlemen.))

[Jay Currie]

"Every talking point I've read from him in the past weeks has been derived from Fox, SDA, LGF, Washington Times etc. Currie has drunk the koolaid."

And a very good month it was Dana. Just for your information: I don't watch television - even Fox - don't actually own one. I rarely read SDA or LGF though I enjoy both when I do. I virtually never read the Washington Times.

If anything, I find that one can derive most of the "talking points" from reading FireDogLake and simply assuming the opposite must, as a matter of natural law, be true. If the Hamster is revving up the rhetoric it is a pretty fair bet that she and the Kossacks are convinced that the chimp is going to outwit their cunning plans yet again. (I have occassionally thought the blog should be renamed FireCoyoteLake though the reference may be a bit obscure.)

It is quite possible armed with nothing more than a computer terminal and a law degree to feret out the underlying paucity of the failed Fitz's case.

The koolaid is simply the reward for a job well done.

Meanwhile, I note that you ahve yet to provide a scintilla of rebutal to my three points above. Not really your fault because Fitz, with rotating grand juries, investigators, very broad subpoena powers, and rafts of lawyers hasn't quite managed that trick either. After two years on the job.....Hmmm.

As Monica Lewinsky might have said, sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

[Jay Currie]

Ooops....

Not even the sainted fitz can keep the story straight:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/11/AR2006041101440_pf.html