Kid you not

There are many reasons I did not birth my own babies. (I do, however, have a stepson I helped raise from a very young age and with whom I remain very close.) These had to do with my career, the non-existence of maternity leaves when I was at my most fertile, the lack of childcare, the certainty that my ex-husband would not be around much to co-parent, and a whole bunch more very personal reasons.

That said, I love kids, and, as long as I don't have to change diapers, am happy to spend hours and hours with them. I spoil my nieces,  am very involved with my friends' children and am quite popular with the kids in my 'hood, partly because I give out awesome and copious amounts of Halloween goodies.

The fact that I have no kids is not why I got to interview Corinne Maier, the French author of No Kid: 40 Reasons Not to have Children who is coming to Moses Znaimer's ideaCity next week. It had more to do with the fact that I speak French and could quickly read her book, which has been translated into 10 languages, but not English.

The interview appeared in today's paper and I have to say that it's attracted some of the most angry email I have ever received. OMG, you cannot believe how touchy people are about the to-breed-or-not-to-breed dilemma.

Here are some of the more contentious snips from the interview:

Q: In my neighbourhood, it's baby central. Kids everywhere. You can't sit in a Starbucks because all these mothers and babies have taken over. And you always have to make way for children in giant strollers, which are like trucks.

A: Of course, people with children think that they are the centre of the world, that maybe a person without children is a poor thing that has to give way for them. I think it's a pity but that's the way it is.

Q: My neighbour says that I should be grateful that she had children because her kids will grow up to pay the taxes to pay for my health care and pension.

A: That is ridiculous. The answer is immigration. If we need people, we should accept people from outside the county to work and to pay the pensions. We don't need to make the children ourselves. It costs a lot to society, in fact, to add to the overpopulation.

Q: That can't be a very popular view in Europe, where immigration is such a controversial issue.

A: I think that is the reason that in Europe, we have all these debates about national identity. I think it's a dusty old concept but it's coming back very strong.

Q: You talk about how children are the death of relationships, the end of romance, the extinction of desire, even grown-up vacations and pastimes are finished. Yet your relationship continues.

A: Yes, but it's very difficult. (Laughs) It's definitely not a plus for a relationship to have children.

Q: I've heard people say it's very selfish not to have children. Would you agree?

A: No, not at all. Very often families are selfish because they are closed to the outside world. And some parents want their children to behave just like them. Isn't that selfish?

Q: So why did you have children?

A: I was optimistic. I had no idea that I would become a prisoner for 20 years.

I don't know. Is it more selfish to have kids or not to have kids?

Those who say that their kids will subsidize my pension and health care in the years to come may be right but here's the thing: I pay school taxes, and property taxes which support playgrounds, hockey rinks, their children's health care, child benefits and many other things.

You don't hear me bitch about it, do you?

But today, according to my email I am more monstrous than ever for giving Maier a platform.

Well, you know. it's all part of my pro-abortion feminazi culture-of-death agenda.

Comments

[Chris Moorehead]

Antonia, regarding the "I pay school taxes and don't have kids" canard...you're not paying for the schooling of today's children. What you're actually doing is paying back the government for the education you received earlier in your life, but did not pay for at the time. It was this education that allowed you to become a productive, tax-paying, member of society in the first place.

Using this logic, I could claim that, as a healthy, fit non-smoker, I shouldn't have to pay for the medical treatment of smokers with lung cancer or obese people with heart disease or Type II diabetes. But it's part of the price we pay for living in a civilized society. The "child free" zealots would be well advised to keep this in mind.

[hanaboomom]

Funny enough, I was talking about the interview you did with Corinne Maier this evening while my husband and I enjoyed a rare dinner out sans kids. I actually found the article quite interesting, though I disagree with much of what Maier says about parenthood.

I certainly don't think you're monstrous for giving her a platform, though I do I confess I did feel momentarily irked by your statement regarding "mothers and babies taking over" the Starbucks. When I was on maternity leave the occasional meet-up at the local coffee shop was a coveted opportunity for meet up with other moms and get outside the house. I'm not going to apologize for that.

With regard to Maier's point-of-view on parenting, I do thoroughly understand that parenting has its less than perfect days. There is indeed much that is tough about it and really, most mothers I know are well aware of this and quite open about it. And yet, I found there to be something quite sad about her take on motherhood. Her overly negative take on motherhood is just as extreme as the cliched platitudes her critics spout off..."children are our future"..."nothing is more beautiful than a smile on a child's face"...blah, blah, blah. There is at least some truth in those trite, rosy phrases, just as there's some truth in Maier's negative portrayal of parenthood. The truth of parenting, at least as I've experienced it, is somewhere in the middle.

As for which is more "selfish", I find the question itself a bit silly. There are plenty of selfish and non-selfish reasons to have or not have kids. What I would say is that if you don't want kids, then for heavens sake don't have them. Parenthood is hard enough when you do go into it willingly. But if you do have kids, don't let anyone make you feel you need to apologize for their mere existence, in a coffee shop or anywhere else.

Isn't that what feminism is supposed to be about? Giving us the opportunity to choose the lives we want to live, without having to apologize for not following someone else's rules?

[Kat]

I live in the Beach, and a single, sans-kids friend of mine had to ask four women, each pushing a stroller, to move into single file instead of walking two abreast and blocking the sidewalk. My friend was trying to walk the other way and the road was too busy to step into.

The mother with the lead stroller called her a slut. That was the word used.

On the one hand, I always wanted kids (never got to have them, similar reasons to your list, Antonia). On the other hand, I would be completely mortified to be caught name-calling a woman sans stroller who was just trying to walk safely to the bus stop.

There are much, much better things to get nasty over.

[sooey]

Gosh, I think it's ridiculously selfish to have kids.

[Big Dave]

AZ; My two cents: I think having children is an exciting and rewarding part of life. It must be extremely moving for a woman to have the experience of creating a new life. Perhaps the Starbucks (hey; who can afford Starbucks if ya got kids... wouldn’t Timmie’s be better?) and the sidewalk hogs are just in a ‘kids rule’ zone that kinda goes away when the kids become teenaged pains-in-the-ass.

All that being said; women/couples who choose not to procreate should be honoured for not adding to this over populated orb, but it remains an individual decision. People should not be pressured to conform to some perceived norm.

It bugs me that Maier says that having kids made her a prisoner for 20 years. How bitter. She must have had a crappy life. Maybe she was a crappy parent.
DJ

[mozo]

I passed on the column to the spousal unit yesterday and she was amused. We are on the verge of tossing our two spawn out the door (both just finished formal schooling), selling the house and not leaving a forwarding address so we can try to re-establish a romantic relationship.

The problem is we're both so worn out from picking up diapers, toys, clothes, dishes, kids from practices, teenage self-esteem pieces, etc. that we may not have the energy.

Good friends of mine who married before I did claimed for years they had no intention of having children, until she got pregant. And now they have 2.

Another good friend got herself a dog as a proxy. Ongoing responsibilities like a child but no talkback and a lot more unconditional love.

[worker bee]

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want me to be a parent if I don't want to be one myself. How would it be good for my child to be born to a parent who's reluctant? How would it be good for me or for the world if I trashcanned everything I've spent my life working toward, in favour of raising another person who might do nothing in particular to further the causes I hold dear?

I think Maier's doing a service to all those people that somehow feel guilty over not wanting to be parents, by letting them know that not all parents want to be parents either, and that parenting doesn't automatically make you a better person or give you the moral high ground.

I applaud the people--parents and nonparents--who have carefully considered their choices.

[deBeauxOs]

There's a reason, I think, that No Kids has not yet been translated into English. Maier's book was written in a style that is typical of European French humour: caustic and provocative. It is meant to generate discussion.

I have read articles in the European media where Maier discloses that she does indeed love her children, in spite of what people assume. But as an intellectual, a social critic AND a parent, she could not pass up the opportunity to puncture the ever-inflating child-centrist balloon.

[Lene]

I'm not sure the term 'selfish' should even be part of the discussion and don't quite understand the strength of emotion that pushes people to the extreme of judging someone who hasn't made the same choice they have. Why does this particular issue make people feel that a different choice is a judgement on their own choice? Is it that women who don't have children are so far outside what supposedly make us women, that it messes too much with the social construct of womanhood and women's roles? Is it that being childfree (vs. childless) requires you to defend your choice to friends and strangers that bring you to the more extremem position?

I have no answers - wish I did. Someone ought to do a study.

[hysperia]

It's too bad that we have such a difficult time accomodating Maier's views and you, for giving her a "platform" - which she does seem to have managed on her own. Of COURSE she loves her children for heaven sakes. She has valid points about the potential for immigration to solve problems in the West and in the WORLD. Along with that, her notion that the addition of children has a tendency to change relationships so radically that many of them don't survive is actually well-established fact. And being a prisoner for twenty years? Many women would agree, even if they wouldn't do so publicly. The fact that you decided not to have children at least in part because of career pressures speaks to the sometimes unbearable difficulties that women (and families) experience because we do not have a woman friendly, child friendly, family friendly culture. And the disadvantages of having children are not distributed equally.

When those child-bearing people stand up and do something to equalize the distribution of resources and responsibilities, we can call this an issue of individual choice only. And not until then.

[licketysplit]

It has come to the point for me to completely avoid areas of the city where I know there'll be lots of families and ankle-tripping strollers. I no longer attend Taste of The Danforth. Last time I went, I just about lost it because of all the strollers being knocked into me or just as bad, little brats on the loose running around. Since when is it my social responsibility to avoid bashing into kids? Let's get one thing straight, I am childless by choice and I did not ask any woman out there to bear kids in lieu of me not having any.

Recently I was accused of being discriminatory because I choose to live in an adult lifestyle community. I responded it's my business just as much as it was this other person's business that she had kids.

I say, bring on discrimination! I will lead the parade.

[Danny Bloom]

I think your interview with the French writer was enlightening and well-intentioned, and as a single man with no children who like you nevertheless loves kids and always has time to chat with them wherever I am -- Europe, North America, Asia -- I read the interview and your blog post with much interest. Everyone is entitled to their point of view. Sure. We can learn alot from each other. I respect those couples who have children and I hope they respect me as well for my life and accomplishments. And of course, I am grateful to my own parents for bringing me into this world eons ago. For sure. Lovely life, this!

But one thing we need to think about, all of us, is this: due to peak oil and global warming, the world is headed to disaster within the next 500 years, when the world population will go from today's 7 billion to 25 billion in 2500. Then what?

I propose "polar cities" for survivors of global warming in the year 2500, as breeding centers for breeding pairs in the Arctic, as Britain's James Lovelock has said. He says it will happen soon, he told me so in a recent email, after seeing the images of a polar city I had sent him, google it; but I feel we still have 30 more generations to prepare for this coming Great Interruption. I wonder if anyone has thought about this period of time, 500 years from now, when the controversy over having kids or not having them, won't be so important. Or maybe, at that time, we will need breeding pairs in my polar cities to ensure the survival of the human species. How about a column on this subject some day?

[Antonia]

Thanks but I fail to see a reason for humans to survive since they screwed up this planet and would do so again, given the opportunity.

[arthurdecco]

The comments I've read so far have bowled me over me with their candor. Especially yours, Antonia.

I can't come close...

I became a father 2 years into my way-too-early first marriage.

My first wife and I separated in a stewing, ongoing brew of acrimony after eleven years, fueled by my self-obsession and her desire for dominance/control - control she felt necessary because of the insecurity that had been brought on by my oppressive, Type “A” influence and the overriding paternalism that was so prevalent in the sixties and early seventies - paternalism we now recognize as threatening to all we hold dear.

By the time I accidentally stumbled under the benevolent influence of my presently compatible and sane life partner, divorce long gone, my desperately-seeking son was thirteen and looking for an alternative to the latch-key kid's existence he'd been living since his Mom and I had acrimoniously split when he was six...

You'd think life would have been, "Happily Ever After" for all of us after he told us that...

...But after confusedly living with my son's mercurial emotional assaults on both of us, in a large part caused by my own previous self obsession and my ongoing inability to deal constructively with his teenage belligerence, acrimony and confusion, my extremely sane wife reconsidered her personal pledge to "children of her own".

I gotta say: She made the right decision.

We're still passionately in love, just like in the movies, 23 years after we took our vows in her parent’s acres-big back yard. (It took me years to catch up to her.)

What would have happened had we had children?

I shudder to think.

[M]

Personally, I want to have kids some day, and when it comes down to it, my reasons *are* selfish. I want to have kids so that when I'm old, they can take care of me or make sure I'm taken care of. I just want to have the experience of it all, out of curiosity (it sounds weird when I say it like that, but it's the truth). I also want my parents to experience being grandparents.

All in all, I don't blame anyone who doesn't want children, but I can't get past the fear of not having kids to look after me when I'm old.

[Carla]

I read your colum, blog and these comments with interest. As a "non-mother" - a made up word for women who for one reason or another don't have kids - I have not had the wonderful experience of non-judgement. Even though Stats Can released the information last year that married with children is not the majority lifestyle in Canada, our media and culture still fixate on that one way to live.
It can be alienating.

I'm happy to see some comments that understand that, although parenting is important, there are so many ways in the world to utilize that same instinct.

If it was all it was cracked up to be I wouldn't hear a chorus of whines on my neighbourhood streets from new parents who are still transitioning from their pre-children lifestyles to the ones they felt compelled to venture into - for whatever reasons, noble or just following the crowd. That's why I think it's important that we hear from parents who are willing to tell us the reality, the hard parts as well as the rewarding ones, about raising children.

As for the strollers, don't get me started.

[jb]

One thing strikes me as I read about the stroller issue: the problem is not that parents take their children out in public and meet with other parents. I don't think anyone is grudging a new mother the opportunity to engage in adult conversation and moral support. The issue, rather, is that those baby SUVs, aside from being completely unnecessary, take up too much room, and unfortunately the parents pushing them are all too often rude and inconsiderate. I was brought up to think of how my actions affect others, and always be polite and considerate in public. Making it impossible for other people to walk on the sidewalk, or get around inside a coffee shop or subway platform or bus, is ignorant, selfish, and rude; being angry/offended by people politely letting you know that you are being so is beyond words. The problem is this idea that parents have these days that they and their children are the centre of the universe... and then they can't understand later why their kids are obnoxious, petty, spoiled brats demanding over the top birthday parties, designer clothes, cell phones and all the latest fads. Just get over yourselves already! Deciding to have children is not necessarily selfish; obnoxious parents were selfish and obnoxious people before they spawned- it's a personality problem that goes way beyond the decision to have kids, and is the reason for a lot of the social problems we have today. 'Me first' doesn't work, socially, environmentally, economically, or in any way.

[johnnykap]

Antonia fails to see a reason for the human species to survive. This is certainly a dour outlook, but it in no way stands out here. It is simply a core belief of liberalism. Why are libbies so relentlessly negative?

[sooey]

How is the human species in danger of not surviving because some western women are choosing not to procreate? And what's negative about it? It seems to me, you're the one who's putting a negative spin on the choices of others.

[Antonia]

Interesting comment Johnny Kap. It would appear that you consider only white babies born to Judeo-Christian parents members of the human species. Talk about showing your true colours. Pun intended.

[Joan Tintor]

"a single, sans-kids friend of mine had to ask four women, each pushing a stroller, to move into single file instead of walking two abreast and blocking the sidewalk"

What I suggest in these situations -- whether it's strollers or otherwise -- is to come to a complete stop. Yes, you have to stop, but the sidewalk hogs then have no choice but to go around you in single file, or step in traffic. Passive-aggressive, yes, but strangely satisfying. Cheers.

[Aurelia]

I can safely say that there are two different types of childfree people. Respectful ones like yourself, who don't happen to have kids for whatever reasons, but have no issues with those of us who do; and the other kind.

The other kind attack children and parents online and in real life with a bizarre ferocity that makes my head spin. An example? The crud who attacked Alexa at Flotsam when her daughter was in the NICU.

http://flotsamblog.com/2008/03/22/why-i-should-stop-checking-my-referrals/

You get assignments as a reporter and you can't really turn them down without a good reason. But just so you know, I consider this woman and her specious baseless arguments to be unworthy of any coverage. Just as Alexa refused to link to the horrible people who attacked her, the author of that book deserves zero publicity for her cheap stunts.

Not your fault, Antonia, I just hope you washed your hands after meeting her.

[keeper]

Why does it seem that everyone who is childless always uses the old "world overpopulation" scare tactic to justify why they don't/can't procreate? If every female on this planet produced one child in her lifespan, simple math dictates that the human species would die out rather quickly so please do not think you are saving the world from over-population by remaining childless.

That said I never wanted kids. I had my first daughter at age thirty, she was unplanned and a surprise. My son was born when I was thirty-four and he was unplanned. My second daughter who was planned, arrived in my fortieth year. I became a stay-at-home-dad that year (planned) and have loved every second of parenting my three kids. I now have accumulated forty “kid-years” of parenting and could not fathom a life without them. For a selfish man that never wanted kids, kids turned out to be just what I needed.

The feelings and emotions that are involved at the birth of your child is an indescribable event that is unmatched by anything else on this planet and I truly feel sorry for anyone who does not get to experience this truly humbling event. It is the first time in your life when you would truly give your life for another’s, no questions asked. The hardships with kids are plenty and there were many occasions that I wished that I had "kept it in my pants" and remained childless. In reality, the negatives of producing children are far outweighed by the lifetime of positives they bring you. If you have never seen your child’s eyes on Christmas morning or the excitement stirred by their Birthday party or getting dressed for Halloween or their first day at school, you are missing something very special. First dates, first communions, first steps, first words, proms and weddings are all things that I will treasure for eternity.

The only thing I might treasure more than my kids will be my grandkids, I cannot wait.

Just a thought ---- I was wondering how many mothers wished they had aborted instead of birthed after raising their kids; my guess is not a one would make that choice AFTER being a mother.

[Chimera]

Damn, but that book really needs to be printed in English! And I want the first copy off the presses!

I don't have kids for the same reason I don't eat lima beans: I don't like them. My choice. Nobody else's business.

[Gloria]

What woman would admit regretting having children when it's obviously such a horror to say so? The childless live in a black void, with no treasured memories or no loved ones they'd trade their own lives for, burdened with the pity of others.

[stephen.reeves]

My mother had me, and she was far more oppressed than you ever were, did not get paid for mat. leave , I bet your mother did not get paid for mat. leave either, not much childcare back then either , but they made do, as did the other women of her generation, before the sense of entitlements came along.
What is it about Middle Class Canadian women that make then sooooo
whiny