From the FeetoFiles

I'm thinking of starting a category called Right Wing Whack Jobs.

What do you think?

Yet another steal from JJ who writes, further to my last post, about how the fetus fetishists just make it up as they go along.

YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS UPDATE: The Fet-o-philes have posted a, um, clarification.

Comments

[fern hill]

'Chidren'??? There is some fun chortling going on over the misspelling at JJ's. JJ and I both pointed it out at HER blog, whereupon she deleted our comments and changed the word.

I'm glad you've caught a copy of the original too, Antonia.

[SUZANNE]

I improved it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZXWkrppnQQ0/SYS43HzXs4I/AAAAAAAACsE/MfrEJrJRttU/s1600-h/Obama%2Bavortueur.jpg

[hysperia]

They can't spell either!

[Chris Moorehead]

I wish the right-wing loons would leave graphic design to trained professionals. Unfortunately for them, however, virtually all graphic designers are at the opposite end of the political spectrum...all the good ones, anyway.

[SUZANNE]

Yeah, because stabbing a late-term baby in the head and sucking his brains out should be legal, right Antonia?

[Antonia]

Let it go Suzanne. Let it go.

http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/postionpapers/22-Late-term-Abortions.PDF

''The Canadian Medical Association's abortion policy defines abortion as the active termination of a pregnancy up to 20 weeks of gestation (Canadian Medical Association, Policy on Induced Abortion, 1988). 90% of abortions in Canada are performed during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, and just over 9% of abortions take place between 12 and 20 weeks of gestation. A mere 0.4% of abortions take place after 20 weeks of gestation. These are considered late term abortions.
''Why Late Term Abortions are Necessary
''A very small number of abortions occur after 20 weeks of gestation primarily because the fetus is gravely or fatally impaired, or the woman's life or physical health is at risk, or both (Statistics Canada, Therapeutic Abortions, 1995). Many impairments or health risks are not detectable until after the 24th week of gestation. In 1998 an American Doctor, George Tiller, opposed efforts to ban late term abortions in Kansas, using “statistics and photos of catastrophic pregnancies he had aborted.” The images showed fetuses with missing skulls or spinal cords, and in one case twins fused into a single body (Dave Ranney, “Tiller: Abortion Bill an Insult to Women,” Wichita Eagle, April 11, 1998, and Colleen McCain and Dave Ranney, “Five Kansas Families share Deeply Personal Stories,” Wichita Eagle, April 19, 1998).
Those opposed to abortion rights have portrayed women as having late term abortions out of "selfish convenience" or because they "suddenly can't get into a bathing suit."

http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/action/no-new-law.html

''Anti-abortionists frequently say that because Canada has no laws against abortion, women are having them right up to the point of delivery. That is pure poppycock. In Canada, less than 0.4 percent of abortions occur after 20 weeks gestation, almost all because of serious fetal or maternal health problems. Only a handful of providers in Canada are trained and willing to do such procedures.

''Abortion care already reflects what most Canadians are comfortable with, and women and doctors already act in a timely and responsible manner. ''

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rt_canad.htm

''Canada has no legislation limiting abortions. However, individual provincial medical associations do have regulations which restrict late-term abortions. There is an apparently a lone criminal who attempts to murder physicians who perform abortions. He/she has been responsible for three attempted murders in recent years.''

Oh and what's this?
http://bluewavecanada.blogspot.com/2006/06/canada-more-accurate-numbers-on-late.html

Suzanne:

The number of late term abortions in Canada performed for any reason aside from the health and well-being of the mother is too infinitesimal to be measured.

This may not stop some women from leaving the country to get one, true.

However if you limit abortion rights -- which you would like to eliminate entirely -- then the next step is women ceding control of their bodies to the state.

[SUZANNE]

The CMA defines abortions as occurring before 20 weeks.

So *of course* they're not counted. They're not considered "abortions". They're stillbirths!

No, the *main* reason for late-term abortions in Canada is generally eugenic. In fact, the number of abortions *because* of the health of the mother is extremely small.

I'll refer to my blog:

http://bluewavecanada.blogspot.com/2007/04/yes-they-do-perform-abortions-at-36.html

In which a report from the Quebec College of physicians lists a
Yes, they do perform abortions at 36 weeks

http://www.cmq.org/DocumentLibrary/UploadedContents/CmsDocuments/rapportcemmp.pdf

And I have here another document from an ethics committee at Ste. Justine Hospital regarding 3rd trimester abortions:

http://www.chu-sainte-justine.org/documents/Pro/Interruption%20de%20grossesse%20du%20troisième%20trimestre%20pour%20anomalie%20foetale.pdf

I will quote the report, in French and English:

Dans notre société, on effectue des interruptions de grossesse du troisième trimestre même lorsque le foetus est viable, ce qui soulève certaines préoccupations

In our society, third trimesters are performed even when the fetus is viable, which raises certain concerns.

As quoted from my blog:

After 20 weeks (LMP—that’s 18 weeks gestation), if the abortions are not of a medical nature, they are referred to other establishments. Some Quebec establishments perform abortions up to the 22nd week (LMP). If the pregnancy has progressed beyond that stage, the mother is sent to either New York State or Kansas. (And we all know that it’s Tiller’s clinic in Wichita that does late-term abortions).

The report also says (quoting from my blog)

There are also some 3rd trimester abortions that are due to “precise situations” associated with particular “social” conditions.

http://bluewavecanada.blogspot.com/2008/11/hospital-document-sheds-light-on-3rd.html

It's not true that "social abortions" don't happen in the third trimester. Even the ARCC admits this.

But we just send them to the US.

However if you limit abortion rights -- which you would like to eliminate entirely -- then the next step is women ceding control of their bodies to the state.

As opposed to the unborn child not having any rights at all.

Once upon a time, abortion was illegal. The Republic of Gilead didn't happen.

[MensRightsNow]

Antonia, as a society, we are ceding control to the state anyway. Obama, apparently your hero, will expedite that process.

Antonia, just curious...have you ever read, Atlas Shrugged?

[Antonia]

Yup, MRN. I read it when I was about 17 and loved it...then. Now I think it's drivel.

So ... what happened to your hot blonde this weekend? Things cool off already?
:-)

[...pat.]

Antonia, thank you for providing some cold facts to combat the overheated emotional language.

[Antonia]

Thank you Suzanne.

Obviously this is a mission for you and you have spent many years advocating against abortion. So you have the advantage but I have some quibbles based on a very cursory look at your links:

Your first link, to your blog. Nothing there, not a word, about the mothers. While I can understand that there were a teeny tiny number of late term abortions, there is not one word why. Was it ''OMG, my jeans are too tight!'' or ''If I have this baby, my blood pressure will go through the roof and my brain will explode?''
In other words, you totally discount the health of the mother.

Your second link is a dead end. Nothing there.

Your third link, to the Hopitale Sainte-Justine report.

The hospital, which is a children's hospital (just in case those outside Montreal don't know that), does not perform 3rd trimester abortions. Indeed, the report clearly states that anybody seeking a third trimester abortion is sent to the US. So so much for third trimester abortions there, no? Makes the rest kind of academic since you can't change thje laws in the U.S.

But let's continue anyway, shall we??

HST will perform ''certain'' late term abortions, where there are ''high-risk'' pregnancies (to the teen-aged mother) and in cases of severe ''fetal anomaly.'' The problem is, as the report states, is these so-called defects don't get detected until the second trimester -- but only get confirmed in the third.

All the same, the pregnant girl, in the case of ''fetal anomaly'' undergoes extensive exams by a number of specialists and all kinds of tests. She gets psych counseling and is informed of her options, which includes adoption should she decide to go through with the delivery.

Contrary to your claims, should the abortion go through, there is no ''stabbing in the head'' but an injection of potassium chloride (I think that would be the translation)and then labour proceeds naturally. The fetus is still born.

The committee's ethical concerns center on what constitutes a severe fetal anomaly, which is understandable. At what point do you decide that, to cite one their examples, complete and fatal renal failure is more severe than spinal bifida?

Then there's a discussion of the various schools of thought(fetal rights versus the woman's rights), historical aspects (like ancient Greeks leaving unwanted babies to die), and various legal, political and religious perspectives.

The committee finally recommends that 3rd trimester abortions are ''acceptable'' if there is ''a strong possibility'' that the fetus suffers from a ''grave'' physical problem. There are also recommendations as to the care of the young mother, how she is informed of her options (with ''humanity'' and in ''scientific'' terms ie. not religious), how, should the mother decide to go ahead and deliver, the child should be cared for considering any disabilities, that adoption be recommended with '' a great deal of prudence'' because it's not realistic to suggest that a severely handicapped or ill child will get a home, etc.

Contrary to your one sentence summary of the report, are there any ''concerns'' that back your contention that third trimester fetuses are being stabbed in the head willy nilly all over Canada.

But hey, thanks for stopping by.

Feel free to come again when you have more information that supports your claims.

[fern hill]

Oy, Antonia, my condolences. In addition to the Men's Rights nutbars, now you've attracted Canada's No. 1 Blogging Fetus Fetishist, SHE WHO MUST USE CAPITAL LETTERS.

This is going to get bug-ugly. But fun. *evulsmiley*

[Kat]

Antonia: Regarding the category suggestion, I think the comments show that you can shorten it from "right-wing whackjobs" to just "whackjobs."

[...pat.]

In addition to all the deep reasons this must be fought, I've got serious problems with the 'artist' turning a picture of Rosie the Riveter into Obama. Was it just that the image was easy to find? Or is there some attempt to "feminize" Obama, and therefore accord him the same level of confidence and respect as is given to most women by the fetophilacs?

[MensRightsNow]

Antonia, read it again, you may have a different perspective as you are older and more experienced now.

Moved onto a brunette before the Super Bowl game. :-)

fern and kat....Learn form Antonia, she actually rebuts posts as opposed to blanket name calling only.

[The Stygian and his Shemitish Dogs]

The estimable Dymphna on Gates of Vienna has an interesting take on Obama and partial birth abortion. Works in the Superbowl (which I NEVER watch, btw).

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/02/dark-secret.html#readfurther

A quote to whet your interest (?)

"Thus, the president man himself is the result of the impregnation of a seventeen year-old girl. It’s never been clear that momma and daddy were married, but if they were, it was immaterial. Daddy-O made tracks back to Kenya long before Obama would have the necessary memory development to sustain any images of his sperm donor. Just another baby with another teen-aged mother. Ho hum.

Or it would be ho hum if this guy hadn’t gone on to accomplish what he did. And now he, of all people, pushes partial birth abortion as an alternative to giving birth in the last stages of gestation. Barack Obama has no problem with viable babies dying at birth if the mother says so."

[neko]

AH!
Antonia, how dare you blog! Seriously! I'm supposed to be working, not pouring through your posts and feeling horrid temptation to write yet-another essay on Atlas Shrugged despite being graduated for three years, having no need to actually write essays anymore and having sworn to leave Ayn Rand alone (the poor misguided thing is dead and can't defend herself, after all).
My wasted Monday morning is entirely your fault.
I hope you're happy.

[mouthyorange]

Antonia, I love you(r journalism)! I think you're wonderful!

[L-girl]

Just a reminder: there is no such thing as "partial birth abortion".

[MensRightsNow]

Neko...ooooooh, you graduated 3 years ago, how worldly. The A's I got on essays in University 20 years ago, I kept and almost laugh at today. I was so naive as, apparently, were my professors. Live a little kid, your real education is in progress.

[The Stygian and his Shemitish Dogs]

"Just a reminder: there is no such thing as "partial birth abortion".

There is. As Ann Coulter points out in "Godless", it's a legal term for a process that should be outlawed, not a "medical term" as such.

[Antonia]

How is one partially born? Does one have to have a slightly pregnant mother for that?

[neko]

Wow. You find a couple of blogs and make an offhand comment designed mostly to compliment the writer in regards to sparking and urge within me to write again myself...and then the dripping-with-sarcasm responses fly.
I will confess to being unprepared for that. Guess that's because I'm so worldly.
Oh, and I love Atlas Shrugged. I have read it multiple times. I am dismayed at Ayn Rand for believing that her own 'Superman' figure is just that, a man and only a man as women cannot be strong individuals, Rand said it herself. But skipping past Rands feelings towards her own gender (and I can do that because I am wise and worldly, which lets me realize that books have layers and multiple messages) I like the message of honour and integrity in Atlas Shrugged (oh, and The Fountainhead... and Anthem because I've read all those multiple times as well); it would be great if every person could be the best individual he/she could be. If we could all strive towards ideals and not compromise ourselves with shoddy work or backroom deals designed to get someone ahead based on who they know, not what they can do. But that isn't how the world works, because we are all different people with different goals and different notions of honour and integrity.
Letting business run around on its own, trusting to integrity to keep things running above board seems to get people sick from buying Maple Leaf, or crashed economies because someone said that this bundle of crap Mortgages was a grand investment. Very few people behave when the camera is off. Those people are awesome people, but they aren't and will never be all of us, that's for damned sure.
The über-objectivist hero's of Ayn Rands novels work on paper just like communism works on paper. It assumes that humanity will go with the flow (once said flow has been established, of course) and with 6+ billion of us, things just don't work that way.
And that's as close to an essay as I'm going to get here.

One more thing:
I don't appreciate you lashing out at me because of my age; you may have had a different opinion of me if I had not so closely revealed it and it's sad that you will use that tiny fact in a few sentances to judge me.
I don't appreciate you lashing out at me because Antonia inspired me to write and I told her so, then mocked me with your supposed grades. Should I not be encouraged to stretch my muscles instead of stagnating in post-graduate non-writing career mode? I would encourage you; but you couldn't possibly know that about me, could you?

It's quite simple, really. We can have a civil conversation, or we can not have one and leave each other alone. Let's be adults about this.

[Antonia]

Neko, I think MensRightsNow might be more appropriately called BoysRightsNow. It's obviously he just hangs out here to snipe at women. Don't take the bait.

[neko]

Antonia, I thought that very thing after I had my coffee and woke up a bit. Also, my spelling/grammar is atrocious at 6:30 in the morning.
Your blog needs the drunken-writing feature Google came up with to save me from myself. :)

[MensRightsNow]

Neko...congrats, a school grad up at 6:30 am! woohoo! I was joking, I liked your post. Listen to ma Antonia....

Antonia, I don't call you names...come on now....you can't have a blog with everyone sprinkling sunshine...what is the expression....dissent...democracy thing...?