Til death do them part!

"Fidelity": Don't Divorce... from Courage Campaign on Vimeo.

On December 19, Ken Starr, defender of truth and justice and morality, and his band of homophobes and haters the Prop 8 Legal Defense Fund filed the papers to annul all gay and lesbian marriages performed in California between May and November of last year.

Now there's a petition to stop these ''pro-family'' and ''sanctity of marriage'' hypocrites from destroying people's lives. It's here.

The Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in this case on March 5, 2009, with a decision expected within the next 90 days. We, the undersigned, ask that the Court invalidate Prop 8 and recognize the marriage rights of these 18,000 couples -- and all loving, committed couples in California -- under our state's constitution.

I don't know if Canadian signatures count but they can't hurt. As for my American readers, you know what to do.

Comments

[Michael]

This is wonderful and made me happy enough to cry. How can somebody look at all that perfectly ordinary love and want to stomp it until it's dead? I might cry again...

[The Stygian and his Shemitish Dogs]

"As for my American readers, you know what to do."

like .... win your own referendum?

[...pat.]

We first caught glimpse of his scary morality with what started as the Whitewater investigation and turned into Clinton/Lewinsky.

I don't want this to happen. I think California's got to back of on this whole stupid proposition thing that enables well-organized groups to hold the rest of the population hostage. California can't pay its bills because of Prop 13 back in the '70's.

Now, in addition to real bankruptcy, they're courting ethical bankruptcy with this. I hope the Supreme Court slams Ken Starr, and saddles him with the court costs.

[neko]

When I was a teenager and later in University, I always felt that my Parents were wasted on their heterosexual children. My Parents, I thought, were very accepting people and would love me and accept me for who I was, no matter what. I felt bad, knowing a few people who were closeted well into their 20's and would probably always be so because if they came out, their family would disown them.

Then, in 2005 when Canada legalized same-sex marriages and I finally came back inside from dancing in the street, my Mother casually told me that she didn't want the legalization and felt that Marriage should be between a man and a woman only. My Parents are, it turns out, the Seperate-But-Equal type. It shocked the hell out of me to find that out.

I hope, one day, that the accepting front put on by the closet homophobes seeps into their souls and they realize that it's not about sin, it's about love.

[MensRightsNow]

The feminist movement has done an amazing job of exploiting the courts to favour mothers, while robbing children of their fathers.....but when it comes to gay marriage...RIGHT ON!!...you go gay guys!

By the way, I am pro gay marriage, only the government should leave marriage to couples. No fees, no churches, no registration, etc ....unless you want to. Marriage should be between me and my spouse and our God (if we have one), the government shouldn't even have to know.

There ya go...gay marriage and hetero marriage problem solved.....my business....government out.

[Sebastian Stoker]

The whole Prop 8 issue is an interesting situation, and just one of many conflicts already occurring or soon to come. It is an example of the problems that can occur in a diverse society that is permissive and attempts to make absolutely everyone happy.

In California you have a significant and influential gay population on the one hand, but a growing conservative Catholic population (largely due to its booming Latin-American demographic) on the other. And, unfortunately the beliefs of the latter group are interfering with the perceived rights of the former.

We are already seeing similar problems in Canada: the right to religious expression, even of Christian, Jewish or Muslim conservatives - vs the rights of women within a modern and secular world; the rights of political dissenters (even the most gentle) vs the demands of patriots with regards to flag waving and the national anthem.

We all - as individuals and as a society - had better figure out how to approach such situations if we do not want to end up in a political version of the tower of Babel.

[The Stygian and his Shemitish Dogs]

Sebastian...

does the concept "rethink immigration" suggest anything?

[The Stygian and his Shemitish Dogs]

Pat Pet,

I’m afraid you’ve got it completely backwards.

“this whole stupid proposition thing that enables well-organized groups to hold the rest of the population hostage”

you need a lot of signatures and all the voters in the state have a chance to pronounce on one issue. The fact is that Proposition 8 won as fair and square as the Charlottetown Accord or various Quebec referenda were lost. Such processes are far more focussed than general elections.

“We first caught glimpse of his scary morality with what started as the Whitewater investigation and turned into Clinton/Lewinsky.”

Kenneth Starr is about one percent as scary as the incredible abuses committed by the Democrats to keep Klinton in office at all costs. And in any case, why is not OK to “overturn the results of an election”, but OK to overturn a referendum? Starr had to put up with a lot during the impeachment, and this time I hope he sails through with no problems. He shouldn’t have to go through that twice.

“California can't pay its bills because of Prop 13 back in the '70's.”

Again, that’s simply not true. If you want to blame a single Proposition for California’s ongoing woes, try 187, and it was the sabotage thereof through the courts, rather than the Proposition itself, that continues to make a large contribution thereto.

[Sebastian Stoker]

Stygian, as a multi-ethnic, first-generation Canadian, I think I can comment with a little more freedom than some on your "rethink immigration" comment. Yes, countries like Canada and the U.S. do need to rethink immigration. They need to stop tricking anyone they can into coming in order to have an exploitable workforce.

New world countries like Canada, have a history of luring immigrants with the promise of plenty, freedom and good jobs only to condemn them to menial jobs, discrimination, and little chance of involvement in their new homeland. The result is a failure to assimilate, as peoples retreat to ghettos/enclaves and cling desperately to their old ways. And the more severe the economic climate, the worse the situation gets.

Host countries need to make language skills and cultural compatibility the priorities when selecting candidates. It seems absurd to allow someone to immigrate to a country when (s)he will constantly be in conflict with the evolving politics and culture of that country.

And, yes, I do believe that host countries like Canada need to be more demanding of their immigrant populations, make them well aware that they have both rights and responsibilities as new residents of a MODERN and SECULAR nation, and make them well aware that certain attitudes and actions will not be tolerated.

I once had a discussion with someone at work, an immigrant (and no, not from a Middle Eastern, South Asian or Muslim country). I was lamenting the fact that the feminist values and beliefs I had grown up with in the 70s - that males and females were completely equal, could be platonic friends and equals in the workplace - seem to be eroding, for whatever reason. His response was that, fortunately, with people immigrating from certain countries, such values and beliefs, will indeed be stomped out. I find this shocking and disturbing to this day, shudder as I write of it, and fear the effects such cultural conflicts will eventually have.

[The Stygian and his Shemitish Dogs]

"as a multi-ethnic, first-generation Canadian, I think I can comment with a little more freedom than some on your "rethink immigration" comment."

shouldn't be that way, Sebastian.
I have a vote
You have a vote
we have the freedom to agree with each other
we each have the freedom to tell the other that he's talking absolute rubbish
"multi-ethnic, first-generation Canadian" should not give you any more or less freedom than other Canadians
issues of self-confidence are another matter

[Sebastian Stoker]

Stygian...

We all know that there are PC Thought Police in countries such as the U.K. and Canada. Yes, it is wrong. And so, under the circumstances, it behooves people to speak out when their own kind are wrong, and to be emphatic about where they are coming from. This will help to limit the volleying of slurs and barbs, and keep discussions on track.

I did not make my comments to silence the multi-generational Anglo-Canadians, but to back up what many of them may feel, but be afraid to express, knowing that the "racist" label will be hurled at them at the drop of a hat. Immigrants, people of color, women, gays and lesbians, all have an obligation to society - to speak out as individuals with experiences that are bound to categorize them, but not to identify completely and mindlessly with any one group.

Doesn't someone's age, gender, ethnic background, sexual preference, sometimes directly, and more often indirectly, relate to these types of discussions? It seems to me that to say that the sum total of one's life experience does not count is the ultimate Politically Correct action/statement. It suggests that all people are created equal in all ways, in every sense, etc, etc. This is patently untrue. And frankly, it lets the establishment population(s) off the hook (a straight, 60-something, middle-class, male WASP can enjoy all the power and privilege granted him by a patently unfair and unjust society, but god forbid someone says that he is a bit soft because he did not experience sexist or racism, and the material problems these cause).

As a male feminist, I can express feminist ideals and participate in a feminist agenda, but I can never be a feminist in the way a woman can. Nor can a woman of 20s be a feminist in the way women in their 60s and 70s (who were on the front lines in the fight for workplace equality and reproductive rights) can be. Likewise, a WASP can have an intellectual understanding of the issues faced by people of color, but cannot absorb the effects of such issues, and so is blocked by life "inexperience" (e.g. a WASP can understand the effects of racism, but not know how it feels to be denied a job or be verbally abused in public for being non-white).

When I said "I think I can speak with more freedom..." I meant that I would be allowed to speak, or rather, heard more, by the PC types. However, I did also mean that my experience does in fact give me more credibility than some. I stand my that sentiment.