Wondering how the strike by college teachers and librarians will affect your studies? The school year? Want to know what the main issues are in this dispute? The Star's online education forum is taking your questions and comments and we'll get more answers to you from Tyler Charlebois of the College Student Alliance starting again on Monday, March 20.
For up-to-date information, you can also check out www.collegestrike.com.
Q: Hi. What is the likelihood that the province will have college management take over teaching responsibilities? And is management qualified to teach most of these courses?
A: It is up to the individual colleges how to handle this issue, not the province; but as yet no decision has been made on using managers and replacement workers.
Q: Hi, my daughter is in a collaborative BscNursing program at Trent/Fleming in Peterborough. Parts of her year is being disrupted by the strike. How can she be guaranteed that her she will be able to meet her requirements to complete her year?
A: The colleges have guaranteed that no student will lose his/her school year because of the strike and are to provide more details next week. So stay tuned.
Q: Hey, I am a student of Ryerson University's collaborative Nursing (BScN) program and am currently at Centennial college site. I wanted to know if the semester would be extended for the same amount of time for which the strike lasted? Would the college teachers be teaching students properly in the same way they were teaching before the strike or will they be rushing through the content?
Our clinical placements require us to be in clinic for about 4-5 weeks, we almost wasted 2 weeks of our clinical placement due to the strike. In case of extended semester, would we still be still going to our previously scheduled clinical placements because some assignments are related to our experience in long term care facility.
What happens if I take summer courses with Ryerson university and the college semester gets extended, should I still apply for the summer courses with Ryerson, because the seats might get filled up!
My last question is: Are the teachers getting paid by the college while they are on strike, because it's a loss of students!
A: Colleges are to provide more details next week about how the school year is to be salvaged; otherwise, contact your college's academic vice-president for more details.
And no, teachers are not being paid during the strike. They receive a small strike pay from their union.
Q: Hello! I am a third-year college student, who is expecting to graduate in June. I have heard from many news reports that colleges are creating contingency plans, specifically targeted to graduating students first, then other students. Do colleges expect graduating students to finish their semester on weekends? I, like many other students, use my weekend to work. There is no way that I would be able to not work on the weekend and go to school. My weekend work pays for my gas, insurance, food expenses, as well as other necessary expenses. How is that fair that students would have to finish their classes on the weekend? When I chose to further my studies at a post-secondary institution, I agreed to do my schooling under the original terms: Monday to Friday with varying class times, NOT THE WEEKEND. Why should any student have to make up the time for something that is beyond our control. We did not ask for the strike. I understand that each college is working out a plan that is tailored to its students, but I do not think that any student should be forced to go to school on the weekend. I am concerned that work which has already been submitted, will not be graded appropriately. Have colleges discussed any method for grading students assignments or tests that have been submitted or have they discussed changing marking schemes for assignments or tests that have been missed due to the strike? If the teachers really cared about the students, they would not make it this difficult for us to finish our year. -A disappointed student.
A: Yours is a concern shared by many students. That said, no decision has been made as yet, but colleges are to roll out more specific details next week on their plans to make sure students don't lose the year.
Q: I have been accepted to York University and will be starting in September on the condition that I complete my college diploma. What will happen to my acceptance in the event this strike goes on longer than three weeks? WHY HASN'T THE GOVERNMENT STEPPED IN TO STOP THIS STRIKE?
A: That is a very good question. It's unclear what will happen for students who are transferring from college to university. We're hoping that universities make exceptions and look at the student and the grades that they have. I would confer with your college to make sure you are able to complete your program so that you won't have any troubles with the transition to university. I would consult your college program coordinator or the academic vice-president. Please note there is an announcement tomorrow (Tuesday, March 14) by the colleges regarding the school year, which may help clear things up for students.
The McGuinty government's position is that the colleges and teachers are big boys and girls, and they need to come back to the table on their own and hammer out an agreement. Currently, he says there's still time for the parties to get back to the table and get an agreement that works for everyone.
Q: Hi! As a parent with two boys at college, I would like to know if the strike lasts so that the students have to go in to May, am I expected to pay two more months of room and board? I also wonder about the jobs that they are supposed to start at the beginning of May? By the Q&A I been reading, it seem pretty simple to say we have never lost a semester because of a strike. All I know is nobody seems to give a hoot about the STUDENTS! I think the teachers & government are not worried about what may happen to students, like added costs and jobs. I think the teachers and the government should look to getting together and settle this strike instead off running to the PRESS and blaming each other. All I notice that was resolved so far was the government's 5 per cent tuition increase.
A: No decision has been made as yet to extend the school year.
Regarding added costs, what has been done in the past, is that for those students on financial assistance, allowances are made; colleges have on-campus financial assistance that is available. So students who are having trouble with finances and will have trouble after the strike is completed, they should go to their institution's financial office and apply for more funds to continue with the program.
Q: Hi, I have a question concerning the strike. I'm applying to the Book and Magazine Publishing post-graduate program at Centennial College set to start in September 2006. I had an interview/information session set for March 17th as part of the admissions process. I have been unable to reach the school. I was wondering if there's a way to know if this interview is still going to happen, or if it is cancelled if the strike is still on?
A: I would contact the program co-ordinator, or your key contact person. If you can't reach either, I would go to the vice-president, academic at the college and ask that question.
Q: Everyone keeps talking about what will happen if the strike "drags on." Now, there's talk about weekend classes, which will cause huge problems for many - if not all - college students. I know of myself and many others who will find it absolutely impossible to come in on a Saturday or Sunday for classes.
Does anyone have any idea what exactly is meant by "if the strike drags on"? How long does it have to go before these plans would come into effect? I know that nobody knows for sure what "these plans" are, but does anyone know how much longer things would have to carry on, before they would actually have to start executing some of these plans?
A: What they mean by "if the strike drags on," is if it reaches a point where the academic year is in jeopardy.
The next step - we're likely to learn something tomorrow (Tuesday, March 14) when the colleges are to make an announcement on the school year, if it will be extended, how students will graduate, etc. Each student has different circumstances at different colleges, depending on the program, so there won't be a province-wide solution for how things are going to be handled. It will go institution by institution, program by program, student by student.
Q: Hi! I'm a student in the combined Mohawk-McMaster nursing program. Part of my studies is currently on hold due to this college strike. I booked a flight for April 28 to attend a family function in Europe, way back in December '05 when there was a seat sale. My semester was supposed to be done by the end of April. Now, if the semester is extended because of the strike, who will reimburse me for the flight, because the ticket cannot be rescheduled, and it is not possible to get my money back. Travel insurance does not cover this. Thank you for any help you can give me.
A: It's my suggestion that you contact the dean or vice-president, academic, at your school to speak to them about this. It's an issue that needs to be looked at in more of an indiviual manner, and institutions are able to make special accommodations for unique circumstances.
Q: I would like to know how much notice the public will get after an agreement is made? If I go home for awhile, and hear that the strike is over, how much time do I have to get back to school?
A: The date that classes would resume, in the event of an agreement being reached, would be written in return-to-work protocol, and it would be a date negotiated by the parties and they would get the information out to students. There's no set time, i.e. one or two or three days' notice before classes resume.
That said, it's plausible that if an agreement is reached on a Friday, school would re-open Monday, or if it was mid-week they'd probably give one day's notice before students were required to return to class.
Q: I read on the OPSEU website that there will be information available for the media on Friday (March 10_ at 11:00. It said, however, that there will be an "update" on bargaining provided. If there is currently no bargaining going on, how can there be an update? And will this "update" be televised?
A: Tomorrow morning is an official update on the strike situation. And you're right, there is no bargaining going on between the two sides. As for it being televised, I'm sure one of the local news stations will cover it live.
Q: Can you please tell me how much money the provincial government is saving because of the college strike by OPSEU? Since there are no classes, does the provincial government still pay the colleges? If not, how much are they saving? If the provincial government is paying the colleges, how much are college management saving by not paying salaries?
If the union is forced back to work with legislation and the student year is saved, then is the real issue here how much money the McGuinty government and/or the college management can save before legislating OPSEU back to work? Please let me know and thank you in advance for your assistance.
A: The provincial government isn't saving any money; it has already invested its money in the college sector.
It's true, the colleges are saving by not having to pay out faculty salaries and benefits, but when the faculty do return to work, they'll be getting salary arrangements which will be retroactive to August 31, 2005, which is when their last contract expired. So, in essence, there's not much that's being saved so far by having a faculty strike.
Q: I am in the BSc Nursing Program at Cambrian College in Sudbury. Our class is currently finishing our preceptorship at local hospitals. I have been contacted by college management who state that they may hire another nurse to oversee our placements. Our current clinical coordinator is on strike. Is it legal for management to hire someone outside of management in order to complete our placements? I was under the impression that in a strike position, management are the only ones that can replace teachers if they have the same qualifications.
A: If that's the option the college is looking at, then it can do it. No one has said replacement or "scab" workers are not allowed.
From the outside looking in, the institution is probably trying to ensure that students graduate. You will have someone to monitor and audit, to do the clinical, so that you can be graded and finish the semester.
Q: My son is an international student in a program at Humber. Because of a job lined up when school is out, he is unable to stay past the current end of the year. Should the semester be extended, and he cannot stay, will he lose the entire term? Would he be entitled to a refund?
A: It's my suggestion that you, or your son, contact the dean or vice-president, academic, at Humber and speak to them about this. It's an issue that needs to be looked at in more of an indiviual manner. There are some ways the institution can accommodate for special circumstances for some students.
Q: I wanted to know what is the latest information on the college strike is and if classes will be resumed on MONDAY? And how long will this strike take action!!!!
A: There's no indication how long the strike will last. Currently, the two sides are not at the bargaining table and there's been no indication they are going back. As it stands now, it's not likely students will be going back to school Monday.
Q: The Canadian Federation of Students is greatly concerned about the quality of education and the impact that has been caused by the huge decrease in full-time faculty, increased class sizes, and increased use of part-time instructors. What is the College Student Alliance's position on these issues, and will you make your position public? Do you support OPSEU's drive for quality in the classroom?
A: The College Student Alliance is extremly concerned about all those issues as well. When talking about issue of part-time faculty, that's the result of 15 years of underfunding of the system. We support the hiring of more full-time faculty to improve the quality of education.
We want to make sure that when you look at class sizes in the college system, they are alot better than the university side. You may have hundreds or a thousand students in a lecture hall - you don't get that in a college. The design of our education and curriculum can't be done with classes of that size.
The CSA supports having smaller class sizes where necessary to improve the quality of education and keep the hands-on, interactive nature of those college classes.
Q: I really appreciate this opportunity to ask this question. My son is in an apprenticeship and just started the first schooling portion. He completed one week and one day when the teachers went on strike. What happens now? Does he go back to his apprentice employer? And if he does, what happens to his unemployment? And what are the chances of his courses being started where the strike made them leave off? Or will the college just say "too bad, so sad" and leave these guys to start their eight weeks another time? Thanks for any information you can pass on.
A: The Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities has a website devoted to apprenticeships. Also check out this government website for other frequently asked questions. That would be your best bet. Otherwise, check with your son's college for specific information. Before the strike, all of the colleges were working on contingency plans for all programs. Why don't you try contacting your school's academic dean or academic vice-president?
Q: Can students take the colleges to court for lost time, not providing education that was paid for in advance, additional costs such as housing or lost employment opportunities, just to name a few. Has any college ever been sued over this?
A: A class-action suit from the college students could be a possibility, and a direction someone might take, or one thing our organization could do. No Ontario college has ever been sued by students in terms of a strike, but no Ontario college students have lost a school year to a strike; missed time was made up and everything was back to normal. Those strikes, however, were in the fall.
Q: Hi. I'm attending Canadore College in North Bay and am currently in the placement portion of my course in social service/social worker. I am due to graduate this year.
I'm not able to attend my placement at Ontario Works during the strike due to, I presume, the legal issues involved. Will these missed hours have to be made up after the strike, or have I lost this time altogether? Will my not being able to fulfill the required hours in placement jeopardize my completion of the program, resulting in not being able to graduate?
A: Currently, no decision has been set as to whether the school year will be extended or if students will have to redo it next year. It will be looked at institution by institution and program by program, and depending on how long the strike lasts that will also affect the decision.
Field placements are being decided program by program, placement by placement - whether you go or not is different for each one.
Q: Are college students at risk of losing their semester? If this strike continues, at what point will the college education board declare that students cannot compensate for missed classroom time?
A: Currently, the school year is not in jeopardy. When we get to week three, the school year does become in jeopardy. There are some variances per program - some are on 14 week semesters, some 15 or 16 - but generally week three is seen as the cutoff point.
Q: I am writing to inquire about the OPSEU strike, whether it impacts night classes as well as the full-time students. I am currently enrolled at George Brown College and am quite curious as to whether I will have classes this Thursday evening.
A: Night classes and continuing education classes are most likely taught by part-time faculty, who are not represented by OPSEU, so they are not involved in this strike. Whether night classes are running varies from college to college. I'd recommend conferring with your college, checking its website as to whether night classes are still running.
Q: Hi. My daughter is in the second year of a collaborative nursing program at Ryerson University and George Brown College (it is a university program). One part of students from this program is studying at Ryerson and the other part at George Brown College. They are studying the same subjects and they are all having exams at the same time, and most of these exams are in Ryerson auditoriums.
My question is: What is going to happen to such students? At the particular moment, all Ryerson students from the same program are studying. It is no matter Ryerson or George Brown - we all pay the same tuition. Is it right to keep our children out of school?
A: The George Brown students are obviously out on strike, but when it comes to these unique, hybrid programs, it's very difficult to sort out. There's a similar problem with Guelph-Humber because the majority are taught by college faculty, so they aren't in school either.
Those who are currently taught by the college faculty, they obviously aren't having classes. And it's not like they can go over to Ryerson and do classes there, it doesn't work that way. Everyone is at a disadvantage in the college system right now. When you have a hybrid program and some students are here and some there, there are going to be differences.
Q: Why are the university teacher/professors on strike in the classrooms of Laurentian University (satellite location) at Georgian College in Barrie? Does this not label them as in an illegal strike position? Why are they telling their students they are out because they are in support of the college staff? I have phoned and left my number and e-mail address at Laurentian University/Sudbury with my questions and concerns, as a parent, and have not received a response. I want to know!!!
A: Although the university professors are not represented by the Ontario Public Service Employees Union (OPSEU), because they are teaching on campus, and teaching full-time, it would be my assumption that there was a decision for them not to teach at all. Students in those programs may be taught by university faculty, and college faculty, and there may be a mix. What the school may be saying is that full-time students don't attend class, regardless of who teaches them.
Q: As a college student in the final year of my program, I am of course going to enjoy this strike should it last a couple of days. But, like the rest of the students, I am concerned if it runs any longer and begins to affect our academic year. If our year does become jeopardized, what rights do we have as students in terms of tuition refunds and the financial burdens that may result in a cancelled school year?
A: Currently, it hasn't been decided whether the school year will be extended or cancelled. From our perspective, no students will be charged more if the school year is extended, and financial assistance has been provided in the past to students hurt by a strike through OSAP, giving those who need financial assistance because of an extended school year. In regards to tuition refunds, that hasn't happened because students haven't ever lost the school year in the college system.
Q: Does the government or colleges have any plans to help students, soon-to-be graduates like myself who should be out looking for work but have to complete an extended school year, or even redo the semester? When will the government start thinking about forcing the teachers back to work?
A: Nothing has been decided as yet about the school year. The government is encouraging both sides back to the table. We need the government to do more, to put down an iron fist to say 'get back to the table now,' before we get to a situation where the school year is in jeopardy.
The government will look at back-to-work legislation when the school year is getting close to being jeopardized. College teachers were legislated back to work in 1984 after 23 days.
Q: Do you have any idea when this strike will be finished?
A: No one has any idea at this point how long the strike will last. Previous strikes by Ontario college teachers lasted 20 days (1989), 23 days (1984) and 14 days (1979).
Q: Just wondering what will happen to students who have their second semesters in the summer? Will this semester be moved to the fall?
A: Nothing has been decided as yet regarding the school year. Students are advised to keep in touch with their college for further developments.
Q: What will happen if the strike continues from now until end of semester (April)? Do I get my money back? Or will the semester continue in the summer? Will we need to retake the courses in the new school year?
A: Nothing has been decided regarding the school year. However, no college student has ever lost a school year because of a teacher strike.
Q: When will talks resume? How long can this strike last?
A: There are no plans for talks to resume at the bargaining table as yet. The strike will go on until the two sides reach an agreement -- as has happened in two previous college student strikes -- or through provincial legislation, as happened in the 1984 strike.
I've got a problem with stats from www.collegestrike.com today that said they've had 7 million hits in the past few days, and 2,000 people have used their form email to send out a message to the premier and many others involved. Only 2,000?? There are 150,000 students out there - what are the 148,000 others doing? Some may think it's a party, but get ready to worry soon. The worst part of this, in my program, was that the strike happened one day after we returned from reading week. The faculty had not talked to us much about it at all, we're left not knowing what to do for our program. And now, we're forbidden to talk to them. We have some instruction from some teachers who care.. but the rest, not at all. Some of us can manage independantly, but for how long? We'll eventually want credit for the work we've done.
Posted by: Amanda | March 13, 2006 at 10:56 PM
I don’t know what 2010 will bring me, but I know that my last T4 is stating $31,344.78CDN for one year of partial-load.
Studies and negotiations were conducted in order to determine the number of vacation weeks needed for a college teacher. They do not apply to a partial-load. Nobody is forcing me to work all year long, but can I afford 4 month without pay? And will my job wait for me?
As a result:
· I had no vacation in the last 6 years;
· I have to worry about my job 3 times a year, every year (e.g. I can not tell you today what will happen to me after May.01.2006);
· I have no road map for my career, nothing to fight or hope for in the future;
· I am sharing a desk in the college for more than a year now;
· My request for a loan in order to buy a laptop last year was rejected by the college;
· On top of it, I’ve broken my left arm, paid for all medication, and I know I will not be able to afford physiotherapy – not even in the facility run by my college.
I think there should be a mechanism in place to prevent such a treatment.
Posted by: Caius Grozav | March 13, 2006 at 10:02 AM
Check out the OPSEU website for some truly eye-opening statistics! The number of Ontario college administrators earning over $100,000 per year has gone up from 70 in 1999 to 358, a more than five-fold increase in as many years. The breakdown in the Toronto area is 27 at Humber, 26 at George Brown, 25 at Seneca, and 22 at Centennial. Most of these managers do not teach, unlike those in the universities.
Union busting tactics over the past 30 years or so have left the colleges with an overpaid, authoritarian and top heavy management that is mostly concerned with building little empires and protecting their turf. The primary task of teaching and learning has been increasing downloaded onto poorly paid part-time teachers with no job security and no benefits. Full-time teachers have been picking up the slack for years without adequate reward. Non-teaching administrators are basically stealing from their teaching cohorts.
I was a teacher and mid-level administrator at three different colleges for a total of 15 years, and I never made more than about $40,000 per year. I have had to deal with up to 70 students in a class, and have had to book the gym and TV studio to accommodate them all.
I have been advocating for a complete overhaul and reorganization of the college system in Ontario for years. The 24 colleges should be amalgamated into no more than five or six regional colleges, including just one for Toronto. This would be the best way of getting rid of all the surplus fat at the top. Let these little Caesars go back into teaching, which is the service that is actually needed, or into retirement, the sooner the better.
Posted by: Richard Banigan | March 12, 2006 at 03:03 PM
I think it sounds contradictory when the OPSEU says they are on strike for improving the quality of education because the only thing the strike has done so far is disrupt education.
Posted by: neil | March 11, 2006 at 06:23 PM
The politics and posturing from by the union and the college management aside, as a college graduate and now 25yrs later as a college Professor, I believe that I have a fairly unique perspective on the diminishment of the quality of the education that we are able to offer our students.
In a shop class learning how to weld 25 years ago we had 10 students/teacher; now, I have a maximum class size of 26 students learning how to weld.
(Have any of the readers ever tried to teach a hands-on skill like welding to 26 people at once? What we have is one teacher trying to put out fires and trying to keep 26 people from hurting themselves. In Alberta the same high-demand occupation has a teacher student ratio of 12:1.)
In a theory class 25 years ago we had 20 students/teacher; now, I have a maximum class size of 52 students (and we don’t have TA’s to do our marking like the University Professors).
In terms of class sizes this is a 260% increase.
In the program that I took 25yrs ago a full year of training amounted to a minimum of 800hrs; Now we try to teach the same program (and give out the same diploma) after only 600hrs/year.
This is a 25% decrease in teaching time.
I think that our program is a micro chasm of the problems within the system. Speaking to faculty colleagues I see the same problems occurring in all college programs.
What is driving this decrease in quality?
#1: The province provides only about 75% of the grant funding to college students that it does to students in a university program. (How much material and equipment are required by universities to educate students for a B.A. in English, verses teaching an apprentice Millwright how to weld?)
#2: Ontario has the lowest per/student funding to college students of any province. (Where is the industrial heartland of this country?)
#3: From 1988 to 2003 the full-time enrollment of the college’s increased by >50% while the number of full-time faculty has dropped by >20%.
I am concerned for our current students; however I am more concerned that if we don’t turn this trend around now this province is going to be in even worse shape in regards to a skilled-trades shortage. Don’t people realize that the wealth creating jobs and industries rely upon skilled-trades and the university grads with BA’s are a dime a dozen?
This is why I am on strike.
P.S. – I do not make anywhere near $94,000 per year; but I can tell you that I was making more than that in industry prior to becoming a college Professor. I certainly didn’t come to the college system to get rich. If that was what I wanted I would be in Northern Alberta right now doing just that!
Posted by: J. Galloway | March 11, 2006 at 05:32 PM
Currently we have a system that has the government of Ontario affecting some form of supply management, or mismanagement if one considers the current shortage of medical professionals, and subsidization of students who offer no guarantee that they will make their careers in Ontario. I have no doubt that a similar situation exists in all Canadian provinces and territories.
I believe that there is a viable alternative that effectively gets the government out of its current role and morass; boosts the ability of our schools of higher education to grow, evolve, and prosper; and provide greater incentive for the educated to learn globally and produce locally. That alternative is full income tax credit for education tuition expenses -on a declining balance basis.
In a manner similar to the accounting process for RRSP contribution room balance, students would maintain an accumulative accounting of tuition expenses. Each taxation year, taxpayers with a tuition-expense balance could deduct from provincial income taxes, a portion of the taxes owing, perhaps 25%. The tax reduction would then be applied against balance of the tuition-expense balance, until said balance is zero. (e.g. The taxpayer has accumulated $20,000 in tuition fees. If the current year Ontario income taxes normally (without the education deduction) would be, say $6,000, then those taxes would be reduced by the proposed 25%. This reduction ($1,500)would be subtracted from the accumulated tuition fees.) Yes, it may take 15years or more to finally deplete the account, but that is the objective -reward (i.e. pay for the education of) those who make their livings here in Ontario.
The benefit would be universal in that it would apply to all who pay income tax to Ontario regardless of whether they were born in Ontario and educated here, or were born in Ontario and educated elsewhere, or were born elsewhere and educated anywhere in the world (globally-certified / recognized education institutes only). If they come to live and work in Ontario, their education costs will be recovered through tax reduction. Many business firms are lured through similar incentives.
The Ontario government's burden of post-secondary-education-related decision making and university and college financing will be eliminated, along with its associated bureaucracy. Universities and colleges could be freed from government "control", thus could adjust their fees and define the size andscope of their programs as they deem necessary to balance their needs and their ability to compete globally. Ontario-based schools of higher learning will evolve their global stature based on their own merits.
Ontario will become an even greater attraction for educated people from across Canada and around the world - people who would bring their knowledge and skills which will contribute to Ontario's ongoing economic and social growth. The program would also be applicable to continuing education tuition expenses. The downstream potential of the raising of the general level of education is exponential. I would like to see Ontario take the lead on this, hoping that eventually the federal government would assume responsibility for this (deduct from federal income taxes rather than from provincial), thus enriching all of Canada and strengthening our ability to address global opportunities and our global obligations.
Posted by: Brian Williams | March 11, 2006 at 02:51 PM
Fact: the lowest starting yearly salary for a college instructor in Ontario is just over 32,000 per year. For a professor, it's just over 44,000 per year.
Starting salaries are important -- they play a large role in the recruitment process. After all, how can a college start a new "world class, state-of-the-art" program when all they are not willing to pay new faculty anywhere near what they currently earn in industry?
By constantly quoting a maximum annual salary potentially available to faculty four years from now, the college management ignores the dangerously low starting salaries and makes no mention of how it would take 20 years of full-time work to even be eligible for the maximum.
Finally, I have been wondering lately why nobody from the management side of negotiations -- the Colleges Compensation and Appointments Council -- has said anything about this strike. They were at the table and likely have some wonderful insights. All I read and hear comes from this ACAATO group. Who are they?
Posted by: Bruce Harper | March 11, 2006 at 06:34 AM
I came to Canada almost 4 years ago, and for the same reason of other immigrants I was looking for a better future. I had never thought that I would come to Canada for this. I have made a lot of sacrifices in order to get myself back to school, from changing my profession and start from nothing, to quit my full time job and work only casual, having to deprive myself of so many things to pay my tuition.
Students don't get any benefit from this strike, and seriously shame on those teachers who are on strike, they are only after their own benefits, I think they make more than enough money, they shouldn't be complaining for ridiculous reasons . I would send them to work to a third world country for them to see what it is really like to live with those salaries a no benefits whatsoever.
As far as I am concerned, some of the teachers shouldn't even be making half of what they do right now.
Thanks
Posted by: K. Gonzales | March 10, 2006 at 12:16 PM
Let's see, the most common misconceptions out there seem to be:
1) all college profs make $94,000 and thats not enough. WRONG. of course $94,000 is a lot of money, but few make anywhere close to that, and when you take the overwhelming proportion of part-time instructors into account, the average salary is in barely into the $40,000 range.
2) profs wanted to strike. WRONG. they did not, and do not, want to be on the picket line. The ONLY way that they could force colleges to begin to pay attention what experts like Rae have been saying for years and hire desparately needed new professors was to withhold their services. Do not think for a minute that professors were not begging for new hires long before the strike - they were, quite loudly, we just never heard about it in the news. Two years of talks between professors and college management were filled with stonewalling and sneaky tactics by management. Management's last minute bad-faith offer is what forced professors out on strike.
Let me explain - It's the same as if you are a caterer negotiating a price for your food at a wedding. You can never get the bride to sign anything because she is "too busy" and always has an excuse. you are a nice guy, so you trust her assurances. all of a sudden the night before the reception, the bride informs you that she has invited another 200 guests and demands that you make the food for the same price. Thats "bad-faith bargaining" and that's exactly what college management did. [the colleges admitted A LOT more students and didnt even hire enough professors to replaced those who retired, let alone more profs to handle the huge numbers of new students] So, what do you do? You have no choice. You walk away knowing that her guests will go hungry. It's not nice, and you feel awful because the guests didnt do anything wrong and they are the ones who go hungry. But it's not your fault, you're not going to do the work for half price or serve crappy food. It's her fault - and we all know people like that who simply refuse to take responsibility for their actions or inactions (and the resulting direct reactions of others).
College management are acting like spoiled Bridezillas, and are just blaming the professors because the college presidents were too dumb to simply hire more teachers to teach all these new students. It's a no-brainer. Admit more students? ... hire more teachers ... duh. And let's not forget that these genius college presidents all make 2 to 5 times what the professors make in salary - perhaps we should start to complain that the presidents havent earned their $200,000 to $300,000 salaries?
and 3) the professors intentionally left the classrooms right when it would jeopardize the students' academic years. WRONG AGAIN. the deadline for the strike was well known to management for months, and their failure to take negotiations seriously like Bridezilla, and basically bury their heads in the sands, is the real reason why no-one is teaching right now.
A very important point that we should understand is that the VAST majority of students support the professors in this fight to improve things. perhaps people should listen to them, seeing as they are the ones most affected.
Posted by: D C | March 10, 2006 at 09:08 AM
I am a student enrolled in a trades course at Cambrian College in Sudbury. This strike has been deamed by faculty to be beneficial to students across the province. Well, I guess the majority of students are confused and angry for nothing then, or, it could be because our academic year and work placements are in jeopardy. Although I support class size reduction issues the college teacher's have gone on strike during the middle of a semester, leaving thousands of students at risk of losing their academic year and potentially leaving them out of work. I beleive every college student is entitled to a refund based on the amount of regular classes sheduled throughout the semester. College students would normally be expected to attend 77 classes and out of those 77 classes five have already been taken with no chance to even attempt to study or do any kind of independant work over the strike period. Online courses have been cancelled along with regular classes so there are no options for students to get help, get online and complete assignments, or study course material that would benefit them. Taking the tuition of a student and dividing this by the number of classes sheduled minus holidays and "reading week" you come out with the amount paid per day. Each day that students are out of class should be calculated and refunded in full. There is no reason that with the price paid for tuition these days, not to mention tuition on the rise, students should have to pay for services that are not rendered.
Posted by: Andrew Keen | March 09, 2006 at 07:51 PM
If you and I settled on a price for you to paint my fence and we had a piece of paper describing what work was to be done, you agreed and started to paint and I paid you in full before you finished painting my fence (wow am I dumb).
THEN half way through the job you quit. I would be in a position to demand a partial or full refund. Why do the teachers stop teaching my child halfway through the job and not expect to give a refund? (and they claim they are doing this for a better cause.)
Posted by: S.Deighton | March 09, 2006 at 04:53 PM
I would really like to know how these striking teachers expect support from students and/or the public at large? They admit that wages are not a concern and that it is more a situation of class size and working conditions. Surely in this day and age it is possible to settle such trivialities through arbitration rather than risk the school year for thousands of kids. This union is jeopardizing the summer employment for these students and in fact their actual financial well being. I personally find it disgusting that they hold students as ransom for their high-handed tactics that actually are only blackmail. Please do not forget about the apprenticeship programs throughout Ontario. These are working people who need the education as part of their progression in the trades. They have been cut off at the knees as they have only had a week or twos notice to attempt to resolve this upheaval in their lives. Many of them had to make travel arrangements along with boarding accommodations, months ago, only to find all of that up in the air. Greedy, selfish teachers blame the powers that be for all of the upheaval. I see ads from the McGuinty government saying we need to support our apprenticeship program yet they allow this strike to happen. Surely. in this day and age there exists an alternative for antiquated unions to resolve there differences without resorting to blackmail (strikes) and withholding of services. To those on strike...shame on you, you are selfish beyond any reason!!!
Posted by: D. Beaton | March 09, 2006 at 04:52 PM
I was glad to see your response that you think a class-action suit is a possibility. My daughter’s teachers had informed her class that if they do not finish this semester, they must repeat the entire year. (She is enrolled in Police Foundations). I had already decided that I would be going to small claims court if my daughter’s year has to be repeated since she will be owed not only a year’s tuition, but also the income from lost employment for the year she would have been out at work. However, I do not wish to sue the ‘college’, I wish to name the union, the government and the faculty. My reasoning is that it is my taxes that fund the colleges, (and if they can be legislated back then they should have been on day 1), it is the union that initiated the strike and it is the faculty who are refusing to teach the classes that they have been paid (with my money) to teach. Is this possible?
Posted by: S. Rich | March 09, 2006 at 04:51 PM
I am a new immigrant to Canada. I came to here to escape a life of corruption, insecurity, and constant strikes that disrupted my academic life. When I started classes last September, I had no idea that the life I had come to hate was about to repeat itself. It is a shame that I travelled many miles just to have my dreams disrupted so cruelly for " a just cause." Where is the justice?
Posted by: Judy John | March 09, 2006 at 03:50 PM
Even if this is about class sizes and not about money - I don't agree with the union's tactic of going on strike. The strike could have waited a month till the semester is over and it would have had much less of an impact on the students who pay so much money to be in college. Obviously, the reason the had the strike now is because it puts pressure on the other side to give into their demands. As a student this makes me feel like I'm being used like a pawn - or that I'm being held hostage. And I think that both sides don't really care about the students at all - if they actually cared about "quality education" we'd be in class learning.
Posted by: Clare | March 09, 2006 at 11:50 AM
I dislike how you edited my last post. The important point I wanted to make about the media mis-representation was the fact that the college negotiating committees are maintaining that teachers are being offered an increase to bring their salaries to $94,000 a year, on average.
What you edited out of my post was the FACT that most of these jobs are PART-TIME -- so NO, people are NOT MAKING $94,000 a year.
When I worked at George Brown, I made approximately $1500.00 per course -- that's a 13 week course with 75 students in the room.
Even at a full-time load, that is no where near $94,000 a year.
Get your facts right -- and stop censoring my posts in such a blatant way -- the star is just continuing its misrepresentation of the issues by doing so!
Posted by: Carol Auld | March 09, 2006 at 11:20 AM
The Minister of colleges and universities commented that the average tuition for a college student tuition is 2,000 and university student is 4,000. Where did he obtain his figures from? Is he referring to part-time students? My daughter is at Centennial and her two semesters cost 5,900 excluding books, travel and incidentals.
He also commented that each child will be afforded an education. This is untrue, OSAP refuses lending to children of middle income families. They ignore the fact that these families are heavily burdened with higher taxes, mortgage payments, car payments, and other necessary cost of living. Those who are are able to assist their children with tuition fees are the ones who chose to live a lifestyle on simple meals, no family outings, no social events, no family celebrations and no vacations. After all this sacrifice is made there is no job guarantee and many find employment in other countries. The children of those who cannot afford to make such sacrifices are cheated of good education and passport of their future. It is very discouraging to see how many talented and brilliant youths that we have in our midst doing nothing meaningful because they are not given the opportunity to show their worth.
With this strike on and the threat of increasing tuition fees, who are we really putting first???
Posted by: Meela Ali | March 09, 2006 at 10:00 AM
The real improvement could only come with putting a cap on a percentage of classes taught by part-time teachers. That way the colleges would be forced to hire more full-timers. The part-time teachers are the ones who are working over their head in the profession they love, every 4 months hoping they'll get enough hours to pay their bills in that period (if they get 6 hours or less per week, the pay is 60% less!) and eventually get a full time job (which rarely happens lately).
If more teachers are hired full time and they don't have the worries of super-unsecure employment, they would focus on education a lot better than they can now.
In companies (where market rules) contractors are paid twice as much as full-timers on average and it is a business income income, therefore there is a significant financial gain that compesates for the job insecurity. In colleges that would be considered outsourcing (Oh God, what would the union say!).
While I am personally against the "union concept", as long there is only one employer (the provicial goverment) the union is a necessary evil.
Posted by: Maya | March 09, 2006 at 09:20 AM
Why not publish the salaries of the College presidents? Seeing as they are the ones that are saying there is no money in the system to enact the much-needed changes advocated by Rae. They say they dont even have enough money to replace full-time faculty lost over the last 5 years, yet these "presidents" are personally earning between $180,000 and $300,000! Now, thats shameful and arrogant. For that money, they should have been capable of 'managing' clear of this disaster long before it happened. I wouldnt hire a single one of these presidents to manage a car wash.
John Tibbits, president of Connestoga College said angrily on the radio that his teachers are "out of touch with the reality of the classroom". He took home $290,000 last year. Good job, John.
And Seneca's Rick Miner, the chair of the Presidents' Negotiation Committee who tabled the now infamous bad-faith offer just two hours before the deadline? Well, he made $220,000 last year. Good job, Rick. You done us proud.
Now, really, who is out of touch? Overpaid, arrogant, bungling bureaucrats? or, front-line, over-worked teachers? The presidents should be ashamed of themselves - every single one of them - they fiddled while Rome burned for years and now they blame their soldiers for seeking to improve things.
VERY poor management, but those $250,000 salaries are secured, so really, why would they care?
.
Posted by: Nobel Laureate | March 09, 2006 at 09:03 AM
It is quite ridiculous that the College Management would spend $100,000 to put out advertisements stating that the salaries for college Professors would be at $94,000CDN
It is a well known fact that the remuneration provided to college professors do not match their qualifications.
A Professional engineer, with 10 years working in the industry would be at a salary range of $80,000 to $90,000 (Peo report on salaries Ontario data Dec 1 , 2000) .
However the same P.Eng working as a Professor (and also serving as a professional in the industry with responsibilities) in a community college would be earning a salary between $55,000-$65,000.
There are PhD's workig as professors for this salary scale. You can easily read the collective aggreements that indicates the curent salary scale.
Then, the "Professor" who is getting paid the $94,000 dollar salary as a professor remains a mystery.
The current salary cap of a professor at the highest level, i.e. at step 20 of the scale (perhap 1% of professors if any) is at $82,299. A professor gets to step 20 probably with 15 -20 years of experience, and, I am sure that a P.Eng with this level of experience would be at a higher salary cap that the poor professor.
It's only this small percentage of professors at step 20 that would be earning $94,000 salary in 2010 , when his/her P.Eng compatriot would be still at a higher level in 2010.
Should'nt there be some parity in pay scales for the qualifications and experiences of Professors on par with the industry ?
A greater percentage of the profssors with many years of teaching experience and professional experience do not even see a $65,000 pay cheque /annum for the amount of work load done in the college, when school teachers seem to take home salaries close to $75,000-$80,000
Why should the college professor (will all the degres, masters and Phd qualifications) not make a decent salary between the school teachers and the university professors.
Hence, the statement about the $94,000 pay cheque in 2010 is an understatement and misleading.
thx
Posted by: $94,000 ?? | March 08, 2006 at 10:09 PM