The debate

TORONTO STAR GRAPHIC

We gave Chris the morning off today, he's busy getting ready for his Stumpython. Looking forward to hearing the Steve Thomas stories, the memories, why you think he should or shouldn't make the team. Warm up your lunch and check it out starting at noon today here.

While we're on the topic, freshen up with Mark Zwolinski's update on the camp competition. Thomas or Wellwood? Experience or youth? The Stumpy Meter is at its lowest point to date, so it's not looking good for our man Stevie.

Just a quick links post this morning, I'm taking some time to write up my fave Stumpy memory.

Speaking of debates. Who's your pick for best player of all-time?

How could we miss that great quote from Jeremy Roenick yesterday? Saw the hit by Denis Gauthier Sunday night, hey J.R.: it's NHL hockey - it's supposed to be physical.

"I think it indicates the state of our game, the lack of respect, especially in the preseason," Roenick said. "It is uncalled for, it is ridiculous, it is one of the reasons our game isn't as good as it once was."

Roenick is still angry about the shot, perhaps more upset about his having to sit out the rest of the pre-season. Kings coach says let's move on and we agree.

Here's the latest in our ongoing efforts to find something wrong with the Ottawa Senators. (Unfortunately you have to read past a lot of positives to get there.)

Damien Cox calls on the Thrashers to get Ilya Kovalchuk back into the NHL ranks, and so do I -- before my fantasy draft, please.

That's it. We're officially including Vancouver in the battle of Alberta.

Where is Keith Tkachuk?

Jeff Friesen - the first casualty of the cap. Dealt to Washington as the Devils answer the $39-million question.

"It stinks," Friesen says.

If you haven't been following Rick Westhead's excellent work for on the NHLPA, be sure to check out his story today. We try to keep this forum on the ice, but it's hard to ignore the growing conflict within the players' union.

Sabres-Leafs tonight. Finally, a break from the Senators. See you in the Stumpython.

Comments

[denial]

I sincerely don't want to know what Chris is doing to prepare for his Stumpython. I just pray to any available angel that it has to do with the hockey player.

for the love of Rick St. Croix, please think of the children.

hmmmmmmmmmm i know something wrong with the ottawa senators. they have never won a stanley cup. that makes them as good as the carolina hurricanes. I admire the Sens for some of the choices they've made (including and especially getting rid of Martin), but until they win the cup, they will be nothing but an underachieving team. In fact, they will be worse than the hurricanes, nobody expects them to win.

The senators as a city and as a hockey team have an inferiority complex that they have to shake off sooner or later. it's the: "we're not toronto complex". Look, you can't define yourself forever by what you AREN'T. Yes, we know that all of you are converted leaf fans, and that while 15 years ago you wore leaf jerseys and argued with habs fans, now you wear senator's stuff and argue with everyone else. that's fine. nobody's blaming you. Lots of new teams find that in their first few years, they're identity is based on what they aren't -- toronto. But now, you have to grow up, ottawa. take off the training wheels and trade in the sippy cup. if you're a real team with a real identity, act like it. otherwise, you're always going to be stuck with this inferiority complex. and you can go on for hours and hours about how much better your team is, but all we have to do is say "you aren't the maple leafs" and you'll start to cry.

okay? as a hockey fan in general, we all want to see the best team win; and i'd personally love to see a canadian team win, because it will bother gary bettman ("Canada is important to the NHL"...Canada *is* the NHL, you parachuting space alien from another sport). But until you win, you're just a hot air team. stop talking (especially you, daniel), and grow up as a team. the leafs can miss the playoffs this year, but that complex is going to remain with the sens until they define themselves by what they are, not by what they aren't.

My 50-words or less on Steve Thomas:

First of all, 50 words or less? are you mad? do you think i'm capable of that? please. give me some respect.

The Leafs are not going to do well until at least December, and then they could in fact do very well. This will be a second-half team (if a team at all). This is not leaf-bashing. It is that the leafs need to skate together for several hundred hours before they figure out what they're good at, and what they need to AVOID. The leafs won't be able to fix their holes this year (few teams will), but they can learn how to avoid the things that they are abominable at (such as penalty killing).

with that being said, with the prediction that the leafs will struggle to december, if JFJ does sign Thomas, it should be with the commitment to let him play through the whole season and NOT to react to a slow start of the team. Because when the leafs start slow, the slew of mindless bandwagon leaf fans are going to blame the "age" of this team -- and Thomas, who is now considered a hero, will become the poster boy of the problem.

He deserves better than that. He has earned more than that from this game and from this team.

So if you sign him, JFJ, commit to keeping him and don't judge him by how the team does -- you will have to evaluate him as an individual. DON'T sign him to score PR points (that's a problem you have) and then hold him up as a sacrafice for "fixing" the problem in December, when you send him down and humiliate him.

And to all the leaf fans out here: sorry, but you're on the wrong lane with this. Steve Thomas has become a crossroads for the age vs. youth debate. But it's the wrong person. Thomas is a small piece of this debate. This debate should have happened when the leafs systemically got rid of (in one way or another) Sullivan, Smith, McCauley, and Markov. And if we all missed speaking up then, Quinn should have been grilled when he lost Roberts and Niewendyk and kept Domi (my God), and then signed Lindros -- a million extra cap room would sound really nice right now, wouldn't it? enough to get a player who can play a full season in the league and doesn't have emotional baggage.

Let's not go after Thomas on this because he's an easy target. The real problems on the team are on the first 2 lines.

Best player ever? simple. patrick roy.