Sign of the Times

Raptors lose again. They also throw out a fan for holding up a sign they don't like.

Great job all around, fellas.

Thanks to e-mailer Tim Farrell, who takes over the story from here, out of last night's latest bulletins:

"Did you happen to notice the fan sitting about 15 rows up on the west baseline last night, who got KICKED OUT for having a sign reading "RAPTOR KILLER" with a picture of Rob Babcock in devil horns?

HANS DERYK/TORONTO STAR

T'd up and ejected for this sign.

"I caught up with this guy in Union after the game, figuring he had to at least be really wasted or something, but to my surprise he was fully coherent and seemed like a decent guy. He was just very angry.

"He told me he was warned not to hold up the sign during the game. Then with about 2:30 left, he was holding it up during a timeout, and got the boot. My question is this: Can they really kick him out for this? How is this really any different than allowing sportswriters such as yourself to sit courtside? They know that half the time you're just going to rip Babcock and the team in the papers the next day anyway.

          Anyway, the whole thing seemed pretty silly. Your thoughts?"

I call that sign fair comment -- edgy, yes, and certainly out there in terms of getting personal as it puts a face on this failure. It certainly doesn't appear to be a clear breach of the NBA's fan code of conduct, which states among other things that "there will not be any obscene or indecent messages on signs or clothing." On the other hand, on the back of the tickets is a line prohibiting conduct deemed objectionable, which means if they don't like you, you're out. (Even if you're a fan like this one -- ie, a guy who actually cares.)

As for your other question, pro sports teams have banned or tried to ban reporters who they deem to be unfavourable -- in the Leafs' Ballard era, Pat Marsden was barred from entering MLG, and the Jays, in their early days, barred a Globe and Mail reporter -- but it's a pretty desparate move that comes in desparate times. Sort of like what this looks like -- a shot that hit too close to home, or in this case the front office. A desperate measure.

In the same vein of expressing opinion, a couple of comments from yesterday's Darrick Martin posting neatly cover the spectrum.

In one corner is Terri, not holding a sign, but instead throwing up her hands:

"Mr. Babcock, you can have all the salary cap room you want in 18 months or whenever, but it will mean nothing."

And in the other is Rick, preaching patience:

"I do not believe that the frenzy to jab and maul a basketball team with slings and arrows is fruitful for a franchise so early in development."

Over at Raptorblog, Scott Carefoot is unhappy with the small picture, specifically that Matt Bonner started at centre last night. Of course Bonner, a pop-out-and-shoot role player, was wrong for the job. But Sam Mitchell, who finally got up off his chair last night, doesn't have much of a choice. He's tried about everyone else, and unless he wants to start using the AMJ Campbell Move of the Game to determine his centre, it's Got. To. Be. Chris Bosh.

As for Mitchell, I'm not sure how a group as (mostly) young and inexperienced as this one is going to ascend a steep learning curve under a young, inexperienced coach. Mitchell's all wrong for them, just as Jalen Rose is -- but it appears due to the optics and the contracts they're stuck together, and we're stuck with them for a while yet.

Meantime, here's your Lottery Limbo Standings (Team-record-win pct-games behind in the hunt for the most May ping pong balls):

Toronto 0-8 .000 --

Atlanta 0-7 .000 1/2

New York 2-6 .250 2

NO/Okla City 2-5 .286 2 1/2

Charlotte 3-6 .333 2 1/2

Comments

[alan potts]

I sat about five or six rows behing the two gentlemen with the Raptor Killer sign at last night's game. At no time during the game did they disrupt or disturb anyone in our section from seeing the basketball game. As a matter of fact, the viewing of the game was interrupted more by the usher walking in and out of the isles checking peoples tickets to make sure they were allowed to be in our section. I also noted several times throughout the night that the sign was put down while the game was being played and was held up during every stoppage in play, i.e. timeouts, end of quarter and at half time. Lastly, I was leaving the building at the same time the two gentlemen were being escorted out of the building by approximately 8 security guards and at no time did they yell or scream obsenities towards the security. They simply kept asking why they were being ejected from the building with 2 minutes left in the game. In my opinion, the gentlemen did nothing wrong and should not have been ejected from the building.

[Jay Norris]

There is not enough veteran leadership to support this team. Yes, Babcock has literally hung these players out to dry. He does not know how to effectively put a team together. One or two years from now will these players want to resign with the Raptors after going through such a torturous experience? NO.

[Mike Fogelman]

The Raptors have no choice but to eject fans that comment truthfully on the teams ineptitude. To allow those people who actually paid money to see them attempt to play at the NBA level would set a bad example; more people may want to come and watch and then more people would see just how awful they are and there would be more signs and the cycle would never end. My suggestion..don't go, don't watch on t.v, don't listen on the radio. When, mercifully, the team folds and Babcock et al skulk out of town, the fans can go back to watching the other inept Toronto team those loveable losers the Maple Leafs in their quest to be hockey's version of the Chicago Cubs.

[peter d.]

I happen to know these two gentlemen. They are avid raptor fans, and avid babcock haters. Babcock heppened to be sitting about 5 rows in front of them, thats why they were kicked out - for ruining babcock's experience, as he happened to be at the game with his daughter/daughter's boyfriend. If they were kicked out because tey disrupted Babcock's enjoyment of the game, then I think that Babcock should be kicked out EVERY GAME, because of him 20,000 fans will never enjoy a game.

[Ali]

I think the raptors would have more credibility in kicking the fan out if he didn't happen to be true. Babcock admitted (stupidly in my humble opinion) that the Raptors would struggle to achieve the record they had last year (not a monumental task by any standards), so this start to the season can be considered nothing else than fulfilling his intentions. Though to be fair, I'm sure he imagined they'd atleast win 1 or 2 of their first 8 games. So if your definition of a Raptor is a team that wins basketball games, Babcock is indeed a Raptor Killer as he has killed their chance of winning anything with his attitude as well as his decision making. Its a sad state of affairs for TO basketball right now, I guess as fans we have nothing to hope for but this salary cap relief in 2 years when he can dole out max contracts to mid level free agents.

[Joel]

Hello, I happen to be one of the two men ushered out of the game last night. I appreciate the support from thos who made comments on this site, and for all the fans in the ACC who were on our side as we were escorted out of the venue. The main purpose of the sign was to make a point, and we feel that the point was made. We were issued a warning after the second half and toldto only hold the sign up after a whistle or during a break. We fully complied to the request of security. I still dont know why we were ejected. I personally always belived in freedom of speech, especially after you dish out 90 bucks a ticket to see the worst basketball team in the league play.

[David]

The sign might have hurt someone's feelings, but the real kicker was Andre Iggudala pouring in 26 points and Hoffa sitting on the bench. As you may recall Iggie was taken 9th overall and Hoffa 8th. That gotta hurt the Babcock at least as much as the fans. By the way with a name like Hoffa he should be sent somewhere where he can't be found, just like his namesake.

[Mark]

Personally, I feel that the fan should be able to express his opinion in the game, but what I dont understand is why these people would want to dish out 90 bucks to see a team that seem to hate play. If you simply want to express your displeasure for the team, then stay home. Otherwise, go to the game and cheer on the home team, who for the most part are working their tails off out there. This is a young team and they need our support. What player (ie. Chris Bosh) is going to want to re-sign with a team whose own fans can't support them? Im not saying that Rob Babcock has made all the greatest moves, but at the same time, its not entirely his fault either. I think its important to realize that fans aren't always the best judges of talent either. Or else they wouldnt have booed Damon Stoudamire or Charlie Villanueva when they were drafted. How many fans are willing to boo Charlie V now after seeing him play?

[cmills]

The Raps are not as bad and untalented as they now surely believe. To tell you the truth, I think the blog's author is right: Mitchell is not the right coach for this team. He has his lineups all wrong. Even the expansion Raptors, with only 5'10" rookie, and a rag-tag bunch of NBA castoffs was more competitive. Brendan Malone coached to win, even if that meant playing Damon 40 minutes a game. Sam needs to start CV, and Calderon and bring Jalen off the bench. How many 1st quarter deficits must the Raps overcome?

[John]

What ever happend to free speech? Exactly?!! Raptors are done!!!! i can't belive that people actually still watch them. They will be the next team to move.

[cy]

Joel, thanks for making that point. sometimes, down at the ACC, i wonder if anyone does care. then i read this blog, and others like Scott's, and realize that people do give a damn. (and i could be wrong here, but i don't remember a year ago, when the ACC was full of anti-Vince signs that were the equal of this one, anyone getting booted out for holding them).
As for Mark's point, i don't think anyone is saying here that the fans with the sign were booing the team, or the players -- they were simply taking the opportunity, given the fact they'd just spent $90 or thereabouts on a ticket, to give their opinion on the guy they think responsible for a dreadful 0-8 start, and the bleak days ahead before this team gets better (if it gets better anytime soon, because that's pretty much something you have to accept on faith, trust and learning how to D up). but i do think your last point is worth pondering -- we fans do judge too quickly. it's part of being a fan, the irrationality of it all. Like painting your face, or taking the time to make a sign up. As for John, please -- the Raptors aren't going anywhere. Don't buy into that nonsense from the knee-jerk crowd who, with every three-game losing streak, start talking about how this is a hockey town only. I've been hearing that since the day this team was announced, and it's crap. And hey, cmills, speaking as author of this blog -- thanks. come back anytime.

[Tim Farrell]

Chris-

I became incensed when reading John's post, but I'm glad to see you replied before I even got a chance to. Couldn't have said it better myself (I guess that's why you're the sportswriter).

I never understand why people equate losing with moving. It's just not really the case. It definitely helped in Vancouver, but sometimes, as was the case with the (old) Cleveland Browns, LA Raiders, LA Rams, Charlotte Hornets, Winnipeg Jets, Quebec Nordiques, Minnesota North Stars etc etc etc, it generally has to do with a plethora of other factors. These tend to include greedy owners and the lack of a new publicly-funded stadium.

The Clippers have been terrible forever; there's no talk of them moving. How about the Chicago Cubs? Hell, what about the Toronto Maple Leafs? The Leafs have gone 28 years longer than the Raptors without a championship! Ship them to San Antonio! Also, the Raps are still drawing relatively well for a terrible team. They're not going anywhere.

[Robert Campos]

I truly believe that Babcock does not deserve the GM job for the Raptors. He let go Vince Carter for 3 unworthy players and Donyell Marshall without any equal player in return. Furthermore, when Steve Nash finished his contract with the Dallas Mavericks, they didn't attempt to lure Nash to play for Toronto
(Nash of course is willing to play for Toronto), instead they sign the volatile Rafer Alston to a big contract. They also had a chance to beef up the center position with Jamaal Magloire but Babcock didn't work hard to acquire the services of the Toronto native All-Star.

[Steven]

I was at the Raptors game last night. I was sitting almost directly behind the guy who had the "Raptors Killer" sign.
Every single timeout, he stood up and held this sign aloft for everyone in the building to see. He even stood up the entire halftime and held the sign high above his head.
At no time that I saw (and I watched a lot during the night) did he ever yell anything. He was not rowdy at any time. He did not verbally spar with anyone in the crowd. He was not, as far as I could tell, drinking. He just stood quietly at each timeout and held his sign aloft.
With about two minutes to go in the game, as you know, four security guards arrived at his seat and asked him to leave. He went peacefully, but, as you can imagine, the crowd booed heartedly as he held his sign aloft while being escorted out.
I was &^$*% off. That guy paid $100+ for his seat. He is obviously a passionate Raptors fan. He is obviously so distraught over the plight of the team, and who he thinks is the architect of this disaster, that he engaged in a very quiet, peaceful protest. Imagine how upset one has to be to stand at every timeout and hold a sign aloft. That's a dedicated fan. And, how was he rewarded? He was turfed from the game just as the Raptors were on the verge of pulling out an upset.
That's disgusting. The Raptors should be encouraging fans to be passionate, not punishing them for it. Fans, since professional sports began, have protested team management. That's part of the fun of sports. People give their time, money, energy and, most importantly, their soul to their sports teams. They may not have the "right" to criticize team management, but the passion that leads fans to get so upset about these issues, is also the passion that fuels a multi-billion dollar industry. No passion, no dedication, no professional sports. Period.
I don't know who made the decision to ask this guy to leave. I hope it wasn't Babcock and was simply an overzealous employee trying to protect Babcock's feelings. If it was Babcock, shame on him.
Babcock and the Raptors shouldn't be worried about one passionate guy holding up a sign (no matter how critical), they should worry about the day people don't want to show up at the arena, watch the games on TV and buy the merchandise at all. They should worry about the day when fans don't care whether Babcock is doing a good job or not. They should worry about a time when there is no passion at all for the Raptors. If the Raptors don't turn things around in fairly short order, that time will soon be upon us.

[Mohammed]

I couldn't believe they kicked the fan out. I love the Raps win or lose. I believe i will back this team no matter what. But i have to agree with the fan. Babcock has been dismal. he didnt do much in his previous job either. Its time Brass takes a look at this guy. sure our rookies are great i dont blame the players or the coach i blame the guy who is trying or is assembling the group. Time to write to the brass and fill their mailbox with request to ship him out and bring in Dr. J. We still wont win, but at least we got a winner on our team and maybe he can bring in some talent. The franchise needs some respect and with Babcock we arent getting any.

[Barinder]

Kudos to the guy who actually paid for the ticket to essentially voice his opinion on the state of the team. He conducted his protest in a civil manner and that, above all, should speak volumes.

I think all Raptors fans understand that the team is undergoing a rebuilding process, one that takes time and unfortunately, a couple of seasons of frustration. The team is bound by the constraints of the salary cap, which again, is understandable. However, any capable GM should be able to work within the confines of what he's given. Proof positive of that is draft picks. Babcock will forever be acknowledged as the person who drafted Araujo over Iguodala, Josh Smith, etc. With a top ten pick, the assumption is to go with the best talent available and not draft for need. Furthermore, with a little investigation, Babcock would have known that Araujo wasn't expected to go until the mid to late part of the draft. That in itself would have saved the Raptors some money. The Vince Carter trade...well, everyone knows how that turned out. The Rafer Alston experience. It goes on from there. Raptors fans should be glad that his tenure should be over very soon.

As for Sam Mitchell, he definitely deserved better. Being handed a roster worse off than the one Kevin O'Neill was given won't exactly help your cause. For a squad that was clearly not going to get better for a couple of years, Mitchell was the wrong choice. Babcock should have hired an experienced coach who knows his X's and O's and at least been able to wean out a decently constructed defense. But again, I'm pretty sure Mitchell was hired out of fiscal constraint more than anything else. There were some great coaches available at the time of Mitchell's hiring (Paul Silas, George Karl, Fratello, etc.).

Essentially what it all comes down to is that while the rebuilding process is arduous on the team and the fans, it has to be done with responsibility and accountability, both of which falls on management's head. So a word to management: stop telling us to be patient if all you're going to do is make poor choices any person with half a basketball mind wouldn't dream of doing.

In my opinion, fire Babcock, fire McClosky (the guy responisble for wanting Araujo in the first place) and pay for some legitimate basketball minds.

[Dave Little]

it's not babcock, I think it's Richard Peddie's fault, he has no idea how to run a basketball team, he hires and fires the wrong guys for the job,I have no idea how he keeps his job this long, if you want to improve this team they have to clean the ship and hire someone who knows all about basketball so he can hire the right guys for the job.

[Avi Benchetrit]

I think that the Raptors have unbeleivable talent on the team and that Sam Mitchell is not the right guy for this team. We got Bosh an unbeleivable player along with Charlie who is turning out to be a great player, Graham who should be able to shut down any player, James who's been putting on a show lately, rose who is a pure scorer. Personally i think Mo Pete is the worst thing for this club. I haven't seen him pass the ball yet! all he does is force up 3's or attack the rim and throw up a crazy shot. Just because he complained about his playing time PUBLICLY doesnt mean that you get more playing time a start. If i were the coach i would bench him for publicly saying that. Mitchell is not the right coach for this team.

[Perennial Lottery Pick]

The most entertaining thing about the Raptors this season has been this damn sign... a sad, truth.

I really think Toronto could be a great basketball town and hopefully we make it through this period of incompetent management.

Any phenoms to draft with the first pick, it truly is our only hope.

[DBB]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this but Jalen Rose is the single reason for our bad starts. The SI article was right. He's great for quotes but not for our team. If we're going to loose, we might as well let the kids play.

I think we should hire a more experienced, fundamental coach who preaches defence and wait till next year. By then Jalen would be gone and one of the top 3 pics.

[Jeff]

I helped make the sign. I am currently in Ottawa, and helped my friend with its funishings over the phone. Whats up Joel? How are you? I hope you are reading this~!

Eitherway, the list is very deep. Rob Babcock has made bad decision after bad decision, if not individually, then as a whole administration. Most of you pointed out the main factors... Rafer, Vince Trade, Arujo, Gram over Granger, and not trading for Magloire. It makes me question if he is committed to the team at all or is delibrately trying to destroy our franchise? I am a die hard basketball fan, and a Raptor fan at heart. The city of Toronto deserves better then Babcock and his minions who are embarrassing our city, and playing with our passions. The sign was to bring attention to the fact, that a) babcock has made numberous irreversable errors, b) that the Raptors themselves are playing very hard and the lack of talent and production is not the players faults. They have some responsibility, but how can you take a broken down Honda and race against Nascars?

I will be attending some more games, in which myself, and my friend who you see holding the sign, are going to pass out 100's or 1000's of the same sign. Babcock shouldn't have the priviledge of sitting court side all posh and what not, when he is destroying our team. Due to Babcock's decisions, the Raptors will be lucky to be .500, 3 seasons from now.

[Robert]

Toronto Raptors basketball will forever be the same as what they are now, unless the Team owners aim to have a contender franchise. Vince Carter would have been playing still for the Raptors if they had considered his wish to have Dr. J as our GM and not Babcock. The way I see it, the franchise owners of the Toronto Raptors are not commited to have a contender to represent Canada in the NBA (the only team we have), but instead they are just committed to put up a pushover team and let miracle have it's sympathy. Team Owners and GM of the Toronto Raptors must learn from the past, the Raptors lost Damon Stoudamire, Camby, McGrady, Antonio Davis, Donyell Marshall, Vince Carter; these people are great great players but for careless reason Toronto had lost them; Toronto Raptors Basketball will not have any bright future in the NBA even in the next decade if they don't know how to take care of their franchise players. Chris Bosh might pull a Carter / McGrady, 2-3 years from now and then a NeverEnding Rebuilding cliche again.

[Chris Minniti]

You know...I love my Raptors, but that man with the sign is right. Hey came into a bad situation in Toronto and instead of making it better, he's made it worse. I doubt he has any knowledge of basketball (i.e. Araujo over Igoudala? what the *%$#?) and doesnt know how to improve a team (Vince Carter for Aaron and Eric Williams...FYI, Vince is averaging over 30 pts since being traded). We needed a change from Glen Grunwald, but I thought we'd at least get a GM...not a guy who sits in floor seats just because it's free. FIRE ROB BABCOCK!!!

[Herb Alpert]

I used to be one of you guys, thinkin I could do a better job than the GM, "I would made this move...that move...and signed Nash...and Magloire..." then I woke up and accepted the fact that 99.9% of the population havent a clue what really goes on when GMs talk trades or why Gerald Green wasnt all that.

Babcock should take blame for takin Hoffa at #8, however if you've seen the Behind the Draft on RapsTV, then you know that Hoffa was the consensus pick by everyone in the war room. In the end he made the call, not McCloskey.

Did you honestly believe Nash would suit up in red, white, and purple for a mid-level exception? Nash wanted a fat raise, otherwise he would've just stayed in Dallas. Magloire is probably the answer to all the interior problems we've had forever. I'm sure Babcock tried, but we'll never know to what extent or at what cost.

Rafer, although a touch overpaid, came off a solid season with the heat, wanted to be here, and was pretty much the best remaining affordable PGs. Rafer's gone and James is in so end of story.

I didn't agree with the Vince trade especially within the division, but I think interested GMs offered little or nothin of value. Babcock would've made a better deal had it been offered. The Vince trade was made for the future. Although we got disgruntled garbage and a not-so-humble-Zo-returning-from-life-threathening-kidney-disorder in return, we got 2 extra picks that will infuse young talent that we've lacked for so many years. Which brings me to Glen Grunwald...

Grunwald's mistakes continue to plague the Raps today. He crippled the Raps financial overpaying everyone he signed including Yogi Stewart. His inability to acquire a true center and true point guard during his entire tenure was unacceptable. He didnt do his darndest to get at least one, Babcock already got Calderon, and we'll finally get a center with the next deal he makes. Grunwald also never any developed young talent for the future and gave away costly draft picks. What a mess it turned out to be.

So that's what Babcock had on his plate when he arrived here. No cap room, aging vets, Vince wants out. How would Dr. J handle it...actually dont even get me started on Dr. J, his status really helped improve the Magic when he was once employed in the front office with a bogus position and virtual office to give a face to Magic organization. Oh ya, did I mention his performance was unsatisfactory so they demoted him.

Anyways...In my opinion Glen Grunwald was the Raptor Killer. But if you believe that Babcock, left with Glen's mess to clean up, is the Raptor Killer, so be it.

[MrBurns]

I feel extremely bad whenever Babcocks says he wants to build a team that works hard and plays defence. The fact is by far the raptors are giving up 109.1 on average to their opponents per game. Said differently, his boys just simply didn't play any "D". Jalen is a non-stopper. Araujo can't rebounds (or even can't JUMP). Woods plays the games with defeated attitude. MoPe is so inconsistent. Hence, no matter how hard CB3, Mike James ans Jose Calderon try, the team just keep losing. Has our GM ever realized that they are just not as good as he thinks? Did he understand that NBA is no mercy? If you can't get the job done, Next please. Babcock, please look at the Hawks. Now, they have money and so many young talents but they're still 0-8. After 2006-2007 season, I have no doubt that the raptors will exactly follow their footsteps that our growing pain will still keep growing.
Good Luck, Babcock.