Winnah Winnah!

Here's the live blog I promised of the draw for the Spree bobblehead contest:

11:18 am. Tore up 11 pieces of paper, labelled 1 to 11 for the voters in order of their votes.

Better luck next time, Moochie.

11:24 am. Spencer, former apprentice blogger at the late (*sniff*) Hockey Page, drew # 6, with another one stuck on it. The one stuck on falls off, it's No. 7.

11:25 am. Looked it up. Winna Winna Chicken Dinner. Illan Kramer. Illan, you've won Spree! Congratulations.

Illan, please e-mail me and we'll arrange delivery or pickup of your prize. And here's how JABS voters cast for their 10 additions to the NBA's 50 Greatest list of a few years back, TNT announcing their list on Saturday night's All-Star HORSE competition out of Houston. Thanks to all for taking part, and frankly, isn't it going to be great to have one of the JABS 10 perhaps trying out for our hometown team?

The JABS 10

Unanimous: Kobe, Duncan 11 each

In easily: Dominique 9, Iverson 9, McAdoo 9, Garnett 8

The final four: Reggie Miller 6, Steve Nash 5, Dennis Rodman 5, Gary Payton and Jason Kidd 4 (tied)

Just missed: Nowitzki 3, Dumars 3, Ben Wallace 2, Bob Lanier 2

Single votes: Alex English, McGrady, Wade, Nobody but Shaq and Wilt, Petrovic, the Bonzi/Bowen hybrid, Muggsy Bogues, Manute Bol, Chris Mullen, Mark Price, Jeff Hornacek (and his ear tug), Bernard King, Adrian Dantley, Connie Hawkins, Chet Walker, Alonzo Mourning.

None: Moochie Norris.

Comments

[J.E. Skeets]

I have to ask: How do we win that incredible Moochie Norris bobble-head?

[Another Chris]

With Rodman now confirmed as being one of the final 20 under consideration by TNT, I wanted to expand on my reasons why I think he shouldn't be added to the NBA's top 50. I also thought it would be a challenge to convince Skeets to alter his list again (careful, Jedi mind tricks may be included below).

The case for including Rodman is essentially based on the following credentials: 1) multiple NBA championships, and 2) best defensive player in the past 25 years. If you look closer, you'll see that these accomplishments are slightly misleading and the Rodman legend is based mostly on hype and hyperbole. I'll break down the arguments.

1) Multiple NBA Championships - It's true that Rodman has been on 5 NBA Championship teams. It's also true that "Big Shot Rob" Horry has been on 6. Obviously, being on a championship team doesn't make you one of the best players ever. Of Rodman's 5 championships, 2 were with the Pistons (Bad Boy days) and 3 were with the Bulls (Jordan-Pippen days). At best, Rodman would have to be considered no better than the third most important player on any of those teams. When he won in Detroit, he was hardly an impact player. In 1988-89, he played less than 27min per game (8 starts), and averaged 9.4rpg and 9.0ppg. In 1989-90, he averaged 29mpg (43 starts), 9.7rpg, and 8.8ppg. Those aren't even Boris Diaw-like numbers. In Chicago, he was a glorified role player (watch Michael and Scotty shoot and see if you can collect their misses). He was a great rebounder, but that was his only role. All he had to do was watch the ball move around the triangle offence, set the occasional pick, and then figure out where he should be in the event of a miss. I'm not saying he wasn't good at what he did, I'm just saying that his 15rpg are not impressive enough to outweigh the fact that he wasn't even the fourth option on offence.

2) Best Defensive Player in last 25 Years - Again, this argument just doesn't hold up under scrutiny. He was a 2-time defensive player of the year. In comparison, Ben Wallace has won the award 3 times. Who Wants to Sex Mutombo has done it 4 times. The Worm was a 8-time all-NBA Defensive team member. Pippen did it 9 times, Jordan 10, Payton 8, and Mutombo 6. I think it's easy to argue that Mutombo is in fact a better defensive player and more deserving of being in the top 50.

Rodman only made the all-star team twice. He was never better than an All-NBA third-team member (twice). The best he's ever finished in MVP voting is 10th in 1991-92. The only other times he received votes was 94-95 (12th) and 95-96 (15th). I ask you, how does a player that has never been considered one of the 10 best NBA players in a single season suddenly become one of the top 60 players of all time? It doesn't compute.

I think that Rodman's prowess and contributions on the court have been exaggerated and inflated by his off-court persona. In fact, I was thinking the other day that it's hard to even remember that Rodman played basketball. I remember his movie star phase (anyone remember Double Team?). I remember the author phase (along with the book signings in a wedding dress). I remember the wrestling phase (who could forget when Rodzilla and Hogan slammed The Mailman and DDP?). I remember the hairstyles, the PETA ad, marrying Carmen Electra (this actually scores him points in my book), kicking cameramen, Celebrity Mole, the Finnish Wife Carrying Championships, and of course his prolific stints with the Long Beach Jam, Torpan Pojat, and the Brighton Bears.

Rodman in the top 60 would be an absolute sham and I don't know why everyone seems to favour him.

[cy]

Moochie bobblehead is something I've been combing the garage sales for, and crossing my fingers on it. I have a KG mini-bobble that is not bad as well, and may be the next thing up for grabs. Oh btw. I didn't want to say this Skeets, but -- you were No. 7. Sorry man. You were close, real close.
As for A.C., I think the whole list skews kinda recent, which is to be expected, I guess. I was glad to see Bernard King get a mention, though. I think he deserves to be on there more than Rodman.

[J.E. Skeets]

I think the off-court shenanigans hurt Rodman's case, if anything. I mean, can you imagine if he hadn't pulled that crap and had just concentrated on playing ball? Wow...

Regardless, Rodman was still the best defender and rebounder of his era. He's got the 2 DPOY's, was All-D 7 times in a row, and most importantly, has the 5 rings.

You know, people always say that what sets apart the great from the really good is their ability to make the other players around them better. I think Rodman did that; he just happened to do it in a different way compared to Jordan, Magic and Bird.

I agree though AC -- Deke and Big Ben deserve some credit. However, it's Rodman's 5 rings and consistent team sucess that scores him a spot on my list.

[Another Chris]

Here's TNT's picks and where we went wrong:

1. Tim Duncan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dominique Wilkins
4. Allen Iverson
5. Bob McAdoo
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Reggie Miller
8. Connie Hawkins
9. Jason Kidd
10. Gary Payton

We had Nash and Rodman who didn't make it, and we didn't have Rompin' Connie Hawkins. Do you think this list is compromised due to the fact that Miller was also on the TNT panel that picked it? Will Kenny the Jet and Steve Kerr make the next 10?

[Another Chris]

Skeets - Kelly Dwyer on cnnsi.com had Rodman in his next 10 and he listed a stat that said Rodman collected 23% of all rebounds while he was on the court. That's insane! I also heard that Oliver Miller ate about 23% of all food in the downtown core during his Raptor days.

[cy]

Stupid me, I assumed the Hawk was already on that list. He is definitely deserving. Thanks for this AC, and if you are around a good bookstore keep your eye out for a book called Foul! it's a bio of Hawkins that is among the best books written about pro sports.

[Scott Carefoot]

I have a Vince Carter bobblehead I'd be happy to donate for a contest. It's only slightly damaged - from all the times I pounded it while yelling "GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!"

I could also offer my copy of "Drive : How Vince Carter Conquered the NBA" which my father-in-law inexplicably gave me last Christmas. Unless, of course, you already have a few copies lying around.

[J.E. Skeets]

23% !?!?! That is insane! Quick hypothetical question though:

If someone shoots a hamburger and misses, who grabs the rebound first -- Rodman or Big O?