Those battlin' Jays

Twice in a month now, the Blue Jays have been more ready for Ultimate Fighting than a pennant race. They've answered the bell following the all-star break by cracking, and cracking badly, and no one looks worse than the manager John Gibbons.

TONY BOCK/TORONTO STAR

They've handled it. They're moving on. Sure they are.

The postgame reports out of last night's latest instalment focused on Ted Lilly's possible punishment for his insubordination (on Sportsnet, the team's propaganda arm, they've got a poll up this morning -- who won the fight, Lilly or Gibbons? Just the sort of thing  BJs management wants to see over their corn flakes.) But that's more symptom than cause. Gibbons has been a focal point of first the Shea Hillenbrand confrontation and subsequent banishment in July, and now this with Lilly. Going over the replays this morning, here's a thought: Fire Gibbons. And hire Zinedine Zidane's lip-reader.

That must've been some choice epithet for Lilly to throw at Gibbons -- certainly the hardest stuff he's tossed all season, the way Gibbons dove down the tunnel after him. Most appropriate image to come out of it was Roy Halladay, almost alone in the emptied dugout. There's your Toronto pitching staff for you this season: Halladay and B.J. Ryan and four days of lyin'.

But back to Gibbons. What was most pathetic about this display was his postgame mea culpa: it's standard stuff in pro sports to do the "we've handled it, we're moving on" line of crap, to pretend that these things happen and there's no problem (it's usually about this time that some baseball sage trots out the Billy Martin-led Yankees, or the 25-cabs-to-the-ballpark Red Sox, or the mid-70s A's as examples of successful dysfunction -- hands up, anyone?) But to defend this as something that comes out of "athletic competition"? How about standing up and saying something about being responsible for your actions? When you're a manager, paid to think ahead, the "I just lost it" defence doesn't work. (UPDATE: Gibbons is finally taking some responsibility for overreacting. This morning).

Some scattered postgame comments, taken completely out of context, yes, and boldfaced for emphasis:

Ted Lilly, sounding somber and at least standing up for his actions, but stopping short of an apology (and mentioned that there's a month left in the season -- after which he'll be a free agent and no longer a Jay):
"I handled it in a way I think I'll regret."
"He said something to me that kinda triggered that. I said something I shouldn't have said to him in the first place. It kinda got out of control. It's an embarrassing situation."
"I've gotta be responsible for my actions."

RON BULL/TORONTO STAR

Well, he shouldn't have thrown that curveball to Payton.

Vernon Wells, surely headed out of this nuthouse at season's end, delivering the usual boilerplate:
"It's a situation where two guys were upset. That's what happens. It happens at home, it happens here. You gotta deal with it."

Shea Hillenbrand, in San Francisco with the Giants and no angel in all of this:

"They say I'm a cancer on the team and things continue to happen, so I don't know how you can make that statement. Things slowly come out when times get tough. All I know is, Ted Lilly is a great guy. I'm very surprised that confrontation happened with Ted."
On Gibbons: "He's an intense competitor and he doesn't know how to control that. He takes things personally. It's like, why would I want to fight you? Why would you say stuff to instigate a fight? That's not conducive to a ball team."

And finally, even though he doesn't deserve it, last word to Gibbons (and perhaps famous last words):
"I didn't get him. Nobody got hit. Everything's fine."
"We've hashed it all out. That's pretty much all there is."
"It's athletic competition."
"It happens. It happens rarely, but it happens."

In the Blue Jays clubhouse, it's happened twice in a month. But hey, at least nobody head-butted anyone.

Related: Batter's Box recalls Boomer vs. Cito.

Comments

[Julian]

JP sure didn't look too impressed when he was explaining the situation to the late arriving Godfrey. I wonder if he is re-thinking his earlier unconditional support of Gibbons. Maybe firing Gibbons instead of moving Hillenbrand might have salvaged the season...probably not.

[Paul]

Gibbons has lost the respect of the players. He has to go. And a nice side effect of that is the Jays might hire a manager who can actually handle a pitching staff.

[Julian]

Paul, you've hit the nail on the head with that comment. Gibbons has misused (and abused) the bullpen all season. A friend of mine first brought it to my attention but I have since seen a few articles to that effect. Considering that JP's (x)-Year Plan keeps getting extended I think axing Gibbons will be the easiest way for him to buy more time.

[harry schwartz]

The better prognosticators have known for some time that this year's Jays were toast. They point to lack of pitching, lack of defence, no clutch hitting or those regrettable set-to's (can't Gibbons just have a cage match and be done with it?) To my mind, the most glaring problem on this team is a lack of guts. And because of that they all - from Godfrey on down to every team member (save maybe for Frank Catalanotto) - owe an apology to Reed Johnson.

[Jay]

This isn't just Gibbon's fault. It starts with JP. And it is becoming more and more apparent that his offseason moves weren't close to being the right ones. When we kept 5 major league outfielders (Hinskie, Rios, Cat, Johnson, Wells) and too many infielders there was no question there would be a problem (Oh wait, don't forget that Zaun could have been a problem too but he's the classiest guy in the organization). Something like Hillenbrand was inevitable.

Pitching isn't necessarily JP's fault but we never really were going to have a bullpen. AJ and Gus weren't his fault but their injuries did happen. I think we need to start wondering if we have the right management team to make any possible headway in the division. If Ted fired JP and Gibbons this year maybe we can have a real reason to think positively in the future.

P.S. YOU SHOULD NEVER BE TRADING A GUY LIKE HINSKE TO A DIVISION RIVAL NO MATTER WHAT!!!

[George]

I'll tell you why JP said in mid-August "We're done, our season, hopes are over".

The reason is if he says so in mid-August, he gets enough time for people to forget what happened earlier, in October everyone is either talking Leafs or MLB postseason but no-one talks about Jays. By then JP is relaxed and starts shooting for next year as always.

Ricciardi and his circle of friends has drowned this ship and drained team's future. Our farm system from 6th in 2002-2003 is now 25th in (Baseball America) ranking.

Gibbons is his old pal, traded Hinske to his troubled pal Epstein in Boston for nothing. If he wanted to dump some salary should've done it earlier in the season.

I'll donate some money to charity once I hear the news that JP is kicked out, and the new GM makes his first move by kicking out Gibbons.

[Jeff F.]

Watching all the commotion over the last few weeks brings only one comment to mind. Watching the 2006 Blue Jays act like Billy Martin's Yankees wouldn't bother me in the slightest if they won like they did!

[Don Jones]

How can you blame Gibbons for Lilly refusing to give him the ball on the mound? Lilly had blown most of an eight run lead and thought he should stay out there????
Besides, have none of you ever played ball or hockey? These things happen all the time and are usually forgotten and laughed about a week later. The only difference here is that Lilly did it out on the mound where everyone could see.

[Julian]

I don't see Joe Torre or Terry Francona or really any other manager calling a player out for a fight (Hillenbrand) or having a confrontation on the mound/chasing a pitcher into the clubhouse to scrap(Lilly).

His macho 'my way or the highway' attitude got the benefit of the doubt with Hillenbrand but this last incident is just one more example of his terrible man-management skills.

Who goes out to take a guy out in the middle of a terrible inning and let's it turn into a public debacle?

From Today's Star: Said Canadian Press photographer Aaron Harris, "Gibbons just went at him. It looked like Gibbons grabbed him. Then the whole dugout emptied back there. It was mayhem back in the tunnel."

That is ridiculous!

[Jeff Wilkinson]

John Gibbons should have been fired a long time ago. Shea Hillenbrand, Eric Hinske and now Ted Lilly . . . all quality players who Gibbons couldn't or can't get a long with. Gibbons has no place in professional baseball. Blue Jays should be challenging for the pennant, not dealing with a baby for a manager. Where's the owner of this outfit? It's time he stepped in and rid the club of its real problem . . . Gibbons.

[Kaj Larsen]

Fire both JP and Gibbons NOW!!!!!!!
for the sake of next season.

[Tommy]

JP is the problem. Gibbons is #2. The bullpen abuse worked last year, but anyone with a brain could see that Josh Towers was not major league material. JP trades away all our middle infielders and drafts Russ Adams. Imagine this team with Delgado, Izturis, Escobar and Carpenter. Wells and Halladay are Gord Ash guys, too.

[Tommy]

And you know baseball's financial system is out of whack when the Red Sox are crying poor...

[Rich]

Jeff said:
"These things happen all the time and are usually forgotten and laughed about a week later."

I played competitive sports all my life (nowhere near pro, but competitive) and at no time have I seen physical confontations among teammates and coaches, let alone twice in one season.
Everybody knew from the start that Ted Lilly occasionally has some temper problems, but it's Gibbons' job not to let his temper get the best of his.
Lilly's job is physical.
Gibbons' job is mental.
Last night both performed pathetically.

[chas]

Managing is about getting the job done through and with people. The managers who endure and obtain results:
- are consistent in building good honest relationships
- have thick skins
- keep their eye on the men they manage and figure out how best to motivate them for top performance.
Macho management, if it ever had its day, cannot deliver results in our media era where people can see and read about almost everything that happens and with ball players who are well educated.
Gibbons at age 44 might yet learn to manage more effectively. But who is there to teach him? And when?
Joe Torre still has another job and hasn't yet opened up his school for baseball managers.

[jeeves]

I was really surprised with all the crap that Gibbons got for this, considering the instigator was Ted Lilly. Lilly acted like a little child up there. He just ROCKED for 5 runs, blowing an 8-run lead, and he had the EGO to expect to stay in the game, with more runners on??? He should have been traded right after the game. He's a mediocre pitcher who has been living off a reputation as a "future star" that he had in the Yankee organization. He's never pitched 200 innings in a season, he's got a career ERA near 5.00, and he gets mad about being pulled from a game where he sucked? Wake up buddy, you're not that good.

Everyone cites Joe Torre in this -- well Joe Torre has been successful because he has good players -- the best players money can buy.