Lunch with Brian Burke and the winds of change

Trades are on the horizon. The status quo is not an option. Change is coming.

This is what Brian Burke tells me when we meet for lunch on Tuesday.

It's high noon and we are sitting inside e11even, the swish new bistro on York Street in Maple Leaf Square. The place is hopping merrily with a lunch crowd of Bay Street power brokers and MLSE suits.

But the mood at our table, as you might imagine, is far from festive.

This lunch date was booked last week, prior to the team's latest losing skid. Since the universe has a keen sense of irony, Burke arrives just as Coldplay's "Don't Panic" is playing. He shakes my hand and looks more than a little drained.

"How are you feeling?" I ask.

"Horseshit," he replies.

Burke is not sleeping these days, something I've heard from a few people. His team is not performing the way he expected. It's been a season full of, well, equine excrement.

And so on behalf of Leaf fans everywhere, your humble emissary starts asking questions.

What has gone wrong? What are the objectives of management at this point? What can we expect in the new year? Can this team turn things around without an intervention? Or to paraphrase Chris Martin, why should we not panic?

"I think this group has established to my satisfaction that we're not going to come out of this without some outside help," concedes Burke. "We're not looking at a coaching change. So we have to see if we can make a player personnel change.

"We're at a critical point of the schedule where most of the games are against Eastern conference teams. We need some regulation wins if we're going to get back in there. And we haven't seen the progress that we'd like to see. So we're looking to be active again as soon as we come out of the trade freeze."

Despite my begging, he refuses to get into specifics. But he is working the phones. He knows change is needed. He is searching for size and scoring punch.

"We need a big forward," Burke says, as a couple of suits stroll past and nod hello. "Everyone points to the center position. But I think if we had a Top 6 forward with size, center or wing, it would help us. Right now we're not getting to enough loose pucks in front of the net. We're not creating enough traffic in front of the net. So that to me is our biggest need."

But why is this team still struggling after it was blown-up?

"Without pointing a finger at any one player, we're not scoring goals like I thought we could," says Burke. "We're not keeping them out of our net like I thought we could. That's a bad combination.

"Special teams haven't been what we hoped they would. But I don't think it's a multi-system breakdown every night. I think we are playing 50 to 54 minutes of good hockey every night. But that's not good enough...

"I liked our game in Calgary except for three minutes. I liked our game in Vancouver except for four minutes. I liked our game (Monday night) except for the first two minutes."

Since he mentions special teams, I ask about the chants of "Fire Wilson" that continue to erupt inside Leafs Nation. Has the coach lost the room?

"We outshot our opponent by 2 to 1 (Monday)," says Burke. "We had the puck all night after the first two minutes. We outplayed them badly. We out-chanced them badly. It's clear the players have not quit on the coach. We are not even contemplating, considering or discussing a coaching change at this point.

There is a tendency in all markets, Burke adds, to blame the coach when a team is struggling. But that tendency is taken to the next level in Toronto. Wilson can also be his own worst enemy at times.

"I think Ron brushes some people the wrong way with his mannerisms when in fact he's a great guy and a great teacher and a great coach," says Burke. "But I think his mannerisms with the media – which, by the way, have been developed over a very frustrating period of time – have led some people to turn on Ron unfairly.

"That doesn't change my thinking. We are not looking at a coaching change."

So Burke is standing behind his coach. And he is looking to make some trades, sooner rather than later. In fact, there could be a number of trades. Does this mean he still believes the team can make the playoffs?

"The goal for the season was the playoffs, it is the playoffs," Burke says. "But we are rebuilding. It's not a classic rebuild. I don't think in a cap system, you have to finish last or dead last for four or five years...

"I think we've added assets that will enable us to compete without going through that cycle. Now, obviously, it hasn't borne fruit yet. So it's a rebuild in the sense that we are one of youngest teams in the league but it's not a classic rebuild where you try to finish bottom five and draft patiently."

This rebuilding model, he notes, has no precedent. There are no blueprints. What Burke is trying to do is remain competitive in the short-term while not sacrificing long-range planning.

"We're trying to do it on the fly. It's a totally different model than anyone else has followed. I still believe it will work. It's just not working right now."

But how do you rebuild without draft picks? Does he have any regrets?

"People say the Kessel deal cost more than we thought it would and it did. I didn't think we would finish 29th last year. We may have a low finish again this year. But I got the player I wanted and I still believe in him.

"You look at how well he has played in the last five games and what he can do without a true center with him. He's still generating offence and working hard making good defensive plays. So no regrets, other than our record."

Later on, as we're eating, I show him some of the comments you guys have left recently. And I ask if he has a message for us.

"The message is, 'I'm as frustrated as you are.' It's a work in progress. We're not there yet."

What about the fans who are leaving? What about the fans who are throwing waffles? What about the fans who say there is no light at the end of the tunnel Brian Burke is rebuilding?

"I think hockey fans in this market are very sophisticated," he says. "If that's what they've concluded, then I have to live with that. I'm not going to tell people how to think. But that's certainly not what I am hearing...

"I think people see a defence with an average age of 23. I think they see the goaltending prospects in the system. I think they do see a light at the end of the tunnel. And the tunnel does not run from here to Spain. It's a manageable wait."

 

 

Comments

[We BeLeaf]

Well done Vinay, I hope that the interview was as unedited as possible so to give us better insight into Burke, as a person, and his plans for the team. I take away from this interview:
- Burke is doing the best he can to improve the team
- the Leafs may not make the playoffs this year
- his designs of the team at the beginning were not as he had foreseen
I think it's great that you had shown him our posts. Vinay, will you ask for another interview at the end of the season as a follow-up to this one?
Cheers

VM Replies: Yes, it's as an unedited as possible. I only put an ellipsis in a quote to speed up the narrative. That is, I'm not editing out anything important. Yes, I'll ask for another interview, though probably before the season is over.

[Al]

Dang Vinay, lunch with Burkie. Impressive stuff!

... please tell me you ordered waffles :)

VM Replies: No waffles on the menu at that place. And when the issue of waffles was raised before the interview started, he didn't seem to think it was as funny as I did.

[Bracken]

Great interview - as always, kudos Vinay. So who paid for lunch? I kid, I joke.

Burke is a smart guy who does have a plan and is also conceding that it hasn't panned out YET. He isn't resigning himself to having lost all hope. I have faith. I probably would wait if the tunnel was to Spain, but glad to hear that's not neccessary.

[george carere]

good bye brian -have a waffle on your way out and take your coach with you -you have had enough time and the team is not a prety picture -just go ggcarere toronto bring in the jets and bobbby hull to help and mikita and pilote -they were hockey players

[The 5th Line Centre]

Very good interview.
I do love how he is standing behind Wilson. This team has not quit on Wilson, they just dont have the talent needed to work his system, this only comes with experience and development. Remember, he had some great players in San Jose that devoured his game plan and become a regular season juggernaut. These players were already developed, the top Leafs are just 2-4 years away from the same level (hopefully)
It is a manageable wait, I agree, but risky when your top offensive talent in the system wont be ready for a couple of years and you have to hit the FA market in the off season.

[leefan]

I hope Burke was being coy when he said no coaching change has been considered. At least he has the class to not fire Wilson thru the media, like Ballard would. But the fact is that special teams have consistently been at or very near the bottom ever since Wilson has coached the Leafs. The Leafs often obviously aren't prepared to play right from the first drop of the puck. These are things that the coaching staff should be able to change and no improvement in either area has been evident even with an almost completely different player roster. If Burke can be believed about Wilson's job being safe, then I have less respect for Burke's intelligence, and he shows no respect for the fans intelligence either.

[A True Leafs Fan]

Burke is a smart guy I dont know why everyone has been hard on him. I think the Kessel trade was/is a good trade. do we really need a team any younger? Look at Phaneuf he is a beast and puts fear into everyone around him with just one look. And who did we trade for him? Stajan, Hagman, White and Mayers. what did any of them do besides provide medeoker at best offense. we also got sjostrom who is a great on the PK. Once everyone gets there confidence back and we get a centre who is a proven NHLer there will be no stopping the leafs... I never liked waffles at breakfest anyway...The Leafs are and will always be my team no matter what... Maybe sometime soon I can put down the baileys and see my Leafs pick up the Cup

[jspeak]

I was a Leaf fan for over 40 years...NO MORE. They are pitiful bunch and are run by an over-rated GM. The waffle guy is the only entertainment out there and they ban him from the arena.....pitiful. Burke cannot take any criticisim nor can his team who he has built entirly.
These new guys are so much better then Poni or Andropov. Last year Burke said he would send people to the miniors if they didn't perform. No one went down. He even had the balls to call out a fan when this fact was brought up to him, his response was "who should I send down?" Well Burkie it was you who said it so why don't you tell us who should have gone down. This year it was Finger, but too late.
I dare say that anyone could run a team into last place in the NHL... I could do that job for half the price of Burke.
What I am really sick of are fans who say "you have to support the team stop calling them names, don't throw waffles" same old brown sauce they have been serving for 40 years.
I would be satisfied if Burke came out and admitted that he screwed up on the Kessel trade. Real men admit when they are wrong and swallow it.

[Laura Leduc]

I believe in Brian Burke. Wilson, not so much. I love Phaneuf and Kessel.
They will be great players for us. Grabo rocks!

[kneeboard85]

Nice Interview. I agree about the youth etc but I disagree that this "new model" will work. I don't think in a cap system you ever have a shot at a franchise player through FA. You will never see a Crosby,Stamkos,Toews traded so unless you draft them youre outta luck. Its impressive he got Kessel (Who I like) but look what was lost. I have an eerie feeling this leafs team will be what years from now people point at and say thats why you build through the draft, just not a strong enough youth core aka no pedigree. Your thoughts Vinay?

VM Replies: This will sound like a cop-out but I honestly see merits for both sides of the draft argument. It's true, top tier players never get traded until they are well past their best before dates. But draft picks, even first-rounders, don't always turn into franchise players. It will take more time to properly weigh the Kessel trade. But when it was made, Burke did not think his team would finish 29th.

[Dano]

I think that the reason people are starting to not believe in Burke is because he coninues to say "he believes in this group"when he ought not to. This is a bad hockey club. Now he keeps saying that we are the youngest team in the league.... Who cares about that, because we don't even have the best young guns in the league we have ones that other teams wouldn't want! He continues to say that he hasn't done his job. So does that make it okay? What hopes do we have a better job going forward? He/they over rated Komisarek and Beauchemin when he went after and signed them. The reason Beauchemin looked so good in Anaheim was because he played behind Pronger and Neidermayer. Komisarek was never any good before and he looks like a nervous rookie out there. Everybody thought Finger was a bust, well I present you with exhibit number 2.... I try my best to like Burke but it's more than just being loud and being a good quote.

[jspeak]

After reading these comments of fans who support this dribble called a hockey team, there is no hope for the Leafs. When fans say the Kessel trade was good or Dion puts fear into people? who? I have not seen a good hit from him this year and certainly no offensive output. Kessel is what a minus 15? A one trick pony, that everyone has had a ride on.

You folks deserve this team, "great players","pick up the cup". Dilusional fans and whimpy players who say things like, "stop calling us names, don't boo us,stop throwing waffles"
The Leafs should quit complaining and concentrate on playing the game that they are paid obscene piles of cash to do. There always seems to be an excuse, the ice was no good, we were tired, I didn't get my coco before bedtime last night.
Every individual associated with the Leafs should be walking around with red face of embarassment, knowing they are working for the most comical NHL team in North America.

[burroz]

Burke can't come out and say that the Kessel deal was a mistake and we lost or else he loses the player's willingness to compete for him. I'm as frustrated as anyone with the Leafs lately, but there's no way Burke can EVER call out a mistake that is currently ongoing...present tense not past.

P.S. I still like the trade. Better to have Kessel than gamble on potential busts. Taking the names out of it; I'd trade two or three "what-ifs" for one "got what it takes" anyday.

[Lewis McClain]

Yeah, the guy is trying.. I just get so frustrated . Maybe Wilson is better than i think he is . Sure do hope so. It seems every goalie that comes in here looks like a world beater. Our shots are all over the rink, and the opposition takes a mediocre shot and in it goes. I have said "bad luck " so many times my ears ache.I for one am looking forward to a winning attitude after the holidays. Keep your fingers crossed....

[jspeak]

EVERYONE BURN YOUR LEAFS JERSEY ON NEW YEAR'S EVE.

A BONFIRE AT NATHAN PHILLIPS SQUARE,(if you do it at the ACC you will be banned) A BONFIRE IN EVERY CITY IN ONTARIO.

[bob]

If I was Burke i'd be wearing a paper bag over my head to work everyday....if i was a Leaf fan attending the games I would the same...who would want to spend their hard earned money on this crap??

[A True Leafs Fan]

Look way way back to the begining of the year. the leafs have proven that they are a competitive team and can beat even the best teams...Look at this roster you cant just throw a whole bunch of guys together and hope they can put pucks in the net. it takes years to build chemistry.the leafs have just lost there confidence becuase the fans put way to much pressure on then...the first couple of games kessel couldn't touch the puck with out scoring. People must be either blind or stupid to say that phaneuf is not a physical precence on the ice. and us "Dislusional" Fans are what makes this city one of the best cities in Canada...I will wait as long as it takes for this team to win a cup and when they do...the world will know

[TG77]

Go for it jspeak and then you can buy a new, more expensive one when they start winning. If you don't like them, donate the jersey, they are pretty warm and there are lots of people who can use warm clothes across the GTA. Do you really think MLSE would stand up and take notice when you are standing in Nathan Phillips Square with a Leafs jersey on fire and say man, we need to make some trades and sign better players next time and draft better or this whole city is going to go up in flames. Oh well, at least if any property gets damaged or people get hurt, the cops won't have to waste their time looking for suspects given you use an email address to log into this board. Good luck organizing the jersey burnin', pitchfork raisin', truck drivin' rally on NYE.

[@JerkInTheCorner]

Articles like this where you get to see the candid side of someone like Burke is, and always will be, miles better than the dribble I've read on some of the other newspaper's sites. Great read and thank you for posting.

[Joseph Robb]

"We outshot our opponent by 2 to 1 (Monday)," says Burke. "We had the puck all night after the first two minutes. We outplayed them badly. We out-chanced them badly. It's clear the players have not quit on the coach. We are not even contemplating, considering or discussing a coaching change at this point.

Looking at the NHL stats http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20112ALLAAAAll&sort=winPctOutshotByOpponent&viewName=summary shows that 9 of top 16 teams in points% win more when being outshot than when outshooting opponents. Outshooting your opponent does not mean outplaying them, it's time people wake up and smell the waffles.

[pat]

If I hear that 'rebuilding' word ONE more time with Toronto sports teams....

[Rob]

This new model Burke talks about will only at best create a mediocre hockey team. Pathetic, lets take 5 years and rebuild a hockey team that comes in 8th place every year. In the most diehard market in the hockey world burke decides to take an unproven approach to rebuilding a squad. Why???? Burke thinks hes going to find gold nuggets in free agency, through undrafted college kids, or through late in the draft? Good luck Burke, you will need it....

[jspeak]

If you think Kessel is better then 2 potiential "first pick busts" then might as well do away with the draft. You must assume Kessel has "got what it takes". The only thing I can see that Kessel brings to the table is a shrug and a huge minus 15. If that is "what it takes" I'll take the two first picks anyday. Kessel will never show up when the going gets tough, nothing in his career indicates he ever will. He shows up for his pay cheque, but so far that is it. He might as well put on the turtleneck and join Kabs in Muskoka.

[Krakondack]

He as much as admits that he is trying to burn the candle at both ends - strengthen today while building for tomorrow - and that it has no precedent of working. Also that he is winging it. Then he says he thinks it will work. This is not the encouragement I was hoping for. But then, if it's not Wilson's fault, then by definition, it's Burke's fault, and maybe he is admitting as much.

[gettingcozywithsarkozy]

"The goal for the season was the playoffs, it is the playoffs,"

This quote from BB should make some poster think a little about their expectations of this present team and how they constantly preach "patience" and "just wait 'till he is done." VM goes on to state: "What Burke is trying to do is remain competitive in the short-term while not sacrificing long-range planning." Again, this is what I've been trying to get across to some on this blog over this last week. I'm not on the complete opposite side of the spectrum than they are; I'm just emphasizing that we can't be content with the present play and effort of the team. Burke himself admits that he didn't expect to trade away such high picks for Kessel:
"People say the Kessel deal cost more than we thought it would and it did. I didn't think we would finish 29th last year. We may have a low finish again this year." So maybe he did suffer from short-sighted thinking in believing that the team was just a "Kessel" away from being a serious threat and that there was no way the team would finish in the basement (now possibly two years in a row).

Alas, I don't think this current squad is as bad as the standings show. Their record is more a result of a lack of (once again) effort rather than a lack of talent. With the current players, they just have to: 1) forecheck mercilessly (it will create opportunities) 2) never quit in the defensive end 3) put a full 60 minutues of hockey. The common thread between all 3 points: perseverance.

[A True Leafs Fan]

Kessel put up 30 goals last season after coming off of surgery and missing a good chunk of the season. yea hes cold now but when kessel is hot and has a center that can distribute the puck to him when hes in good position... he will finish almost everytime. kessel is a sniper and a good edition to the maple leaf roster.

[Ostrich Lover]

I stand by both Burke and the Kessel trade. Phil Kessel is hands down my favorite player, and I ask you, during the Sundin era what was the only piece missing? Thats right, a sniper. As for people who say you cannot get elite players without drafting them, let me show you exhibit A: Mats Sundin -aquired at the age of 24 and one of the all time great leafs. Exhibits b and C: Heatley and Thornton on SJ, both aquired in their prime and they are 2 of the best players in the league. Exhibits C and D: Kovalchuck and Gaborik - though Kovy has not succeeded so far, look for him to explode in the second half. Anyways just thought you guys should know that you dont need to draft first overall to get an awesome player. Hey Kadri could end up being a superstar. Merry Christmas, from the Ostrich lover.

[Shane]

How is the average age of the defense 23? Or is this a typo?

[moe green]

Brilliant interview Vinay. Way to tread that line and get about as much information as you could out of him - without being rude. Thanks for the unexpected Christmas gift. It couldn't have come at a better time.

More well-researched draft picks in all rounds and solid top-flight development of those players = more and higher quality assets from within. It's a recipe for long-term success that is at the core of Burke's rebuild strategy. While that likely means no Sidney Crosby through the draft, it could amount to a Datsyuk or Zetterberg! Build solidly, carefully and add key assets through trades and free-agency.

The problem is that no one counted on the near-instant desertification of the free-agent market. Teams are locking up their front-line talent for more money and for longer term than ever before in history. When Charles Wang signed Rick DiPietro for 15 years at $4.5 mil a copy we mocked him. Now the contracts of Kovalchuk and Ovechkin make the Pietro deal, in spite of the results, look ahead of it's time.

This has slowed the Burke plan but it hasn't derailed it. Let's hope he can add an asset or two this season that can at least make the second half exciting again. He clearly has a power winger in mind. I wonder who? Will he trade Grabovski for some size? I hope not, I love the guy. Who's struggling in the league right now? What assets do they have? Let's try MacArthur at centre. I'm excited again. Thanks Vinay!

[Bracken]

@jspeak:
This is a line from one of your recent posts:
"Kessel will never show up when the going gets tough, nothing in his career indicates he ever will. He shows up for his pay cheque, but so far that is it."

In response I should point out the following: in his rookie season, at the age of 19, he was diagnosed with testicular cancer. He underwent surgery that year and missed a mere 11 games before he returned to the ice, finishing the season with 11 goals and 18 assists. Oh, he then won the Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy for being the NHL player who best exemplifies perseverance, sportsmanship, and dedication to hockey.

I wish was that it didn't take you 40 years to decide you weren't a Leaf Fan. You could of come to that conclusion 39 years prior and we wouldn't of missed you one bit.

Happy Festivus.

[Simmer]

@Ostrich

Yes we were missing a sniper when we had Sundin, but now we have a sniper and don't have a top centre, so we're in the same situation.
I don't think really thinks its 100% impossible to get a good player, it isn't. Heck, we could probably go and get Lecavallier tomorrow if we really wanted, but there is a lot of business to hockey to consider.

Thornton and Heatley were special circumstances, they both wanted out of their current teams, so their value was much lower than it would have been in normal circumstances. Would the Leafs be interested in a deal like this? Sure, but 29 other teams are too.

Kovalchuck is a poor example in any case. The Leafs could go and sign Semin in the off season to 11 years at 7-8m a year too. It IS doable, but does this really help your team in the long run? No.

It is possible to get players without drafting them, but it takes great skill on the GM's part, but also a lot of luck finding the perfect situation (like the Calgary trade).

I'd also like to add for some of the people calling for BB's head, we are only in year 2 of a 5 year plan. NO GM past or present can completely overhaul a team in 2 years and go from bottom dwelling to the cup. It is going to take more time.

If we're still in this situation in 2 more years, I'll throw the first waffle.

Cheers Vinay, great blog again, good read. Have yourself a good holiday.

[Smarda]

BB haters beware: Save your waffels. Burkie's gonna work his magic and you'll have nothing left to eat but your words when the Beleafs are still playing in June.

[DavidJ]

I like the things Brian Burke has done and the guys he has brought in with the exception of Ron Wilson. Wilson may be a good coach, etc etc but I think he is a pre walkout/lockout coach. His complete lack of patience is his downfall. Let the kids play AND make all the mistakes as long as they learn. They are never going to live up to potential or even score if they are worried about getting benched or demoted to another line or the AHL. Wilson can't generate a PP or a PK. That says a lot to me. He can't even use Orr right. Gordie Howe seldom got even now but you knew something was coming later. That was the secret. Wilson retaliates sending Orr out right away and the refs have given him a penalty before the puck drops. Brian if you want to keep Ron, tell him to have some fun at the rink, stay positive because his players and us fans are a reflection of his and your attitude. Right now its horseshit.

[Ken Baumgartner]

Hey JSPEAK, you're cute when your angry like that. Unless Moe Green's prediction comes true and we do indeed get Miracle on Bay Street, it looks like they will get it together but not this stinkin' year. That does suck.

The sad part is what you say is true, except there is no way Brian Burke and Ron Wilson want anything but for this team to win, to win lots, and to win it all. I honestly believe Burke wants to win for the fans as much as, or more, than for his legacy. Really the same goes for the coach. I mean, the guy played for the Leafs so he must have an understanding of what it would mean to win, how could he not want it as bad as anyone else?

Take some time to breathe my freind. Smell some roses for a while, they smell way better than maple right now anyway and Merry Christmas!! We want you, we need you, we love you.

[Account Deleted]

"I think this group has established to my satisfaction that we're not going to come out of this without some outside help," That's what I wanted to hear.Burke saying something has to be done.He's a bit off,in my opinion,about how many minutes of good hockey we are seeing but it's a start.Thanks Vinay.As far as people ranting about burning jerseys,etc.Leaf fans know we are in this for life.Pay to get in,pray to get out.I thought it was just a figure of speech but damned if I didn't cut myself the other day and bleed blue and friggin' white.Also,as with Moe Green,I do not want to hear the word trade in the same paragraph as Grabovski.So ....I'm waiting for the day we can once again say" Those Magnificent Leaf Bastards"

[Ken Baumgartner]

God Love you Tim, Merry Christmas!!

[moe green]

You know as excited as I am, I started thinking: Who could we trade that someone else would want that could net us a top six power-forward? And I decided - Nazem Kadri. Maybe Luke Schenn. That's it, isn't it. I suppose a package of Beauchemin and Kadri for a top six forward and a draft pick might work. Seriously, can you guys help me out here.

[Ostrich Lover]

Too bad dudes, I can almost guarentee you that Grabovski will be traded. His value is never going to be highter.

[Bejamin]

So what if every draft pick doesn't result in a star player? That doesn't mean you don't have to go through the process of multiple drafts until you do get one. It also depends on where you draft. Getting a 5th overall pick instead of a 1st overall is a huge difference. If you're going the draft model you should make sure you get 1st or 2nd for 3-4 years the way the Pens did it.

[Ken Baumgartner]

Hansen, Lebda, Beaucheman, Grabovski ouch, Kulemin, Jiggy, Finger, Bozak. Any combination for Brad Richards and I am good.

[Damian]

From what I have heard Leafs are looking at Langdenbrunner and Penner

[moe green]

Montreal needs a defenseman and a backup goalie. Who could we get from them if we traded Beauchemin and Giguere? Both would probably love to play with Montreal. Who could we target? Draft picks for sure.

[moe green]

Who are some power forwards who we covet and COULD possibly get? What would we have to give up? Could Lecavelier's career be resurrected? Or is there something wrong with him? Drugs, drink?

[moe green]

Penner would be great... who would go the other way I wonder?

[moe green]

Package for Penner?

Beachemin, Grabovski? Kessel? MacArthur. I think MacArthur's the guy with the most value. He's gonna want a huge raise next season too. I think MacArthur.

[moe green]

Beauchemin, MacArthur to Edmonton

Penner to Toronto

Is that a realistic trade. Plus MacArthur's a westerner.

[Denial]

This just in from Planet Disengagement, where the drive-thru is open late and it's always overcast with a 70% chance of...meh:

For a couple of years, I've heard Brian Burke say things like "I choose who's on the bus" and "the buck stops here" and other things that they teach you at Leadership Camp.
Given that, it's interesting (but hardly surprising) that Burke takes NO accountability for this mess. None. It's all just wind and noise.
The biggest problem with this team?
It's not that they have an unproven goaltender in net who 26 other teams did not seriously want.
It's not that NONE of their top 6 defensemen are top 6 defensemen on a contending team.
It's not that they have basically ruined Kadri -- until, of course, he's traded to Pheonix or Chicago or somewhere else turns into a 80 point a year guy.
The problem with this team is simply and singularly this: They don't mind losing.
Read that again, because it's just four words but if you understand that, you can draw a straight line from it to every problem this team has -- for they are all manifestation of that core disease. They simply don't mind losing. It's OK to lose.
There's another name for that: Blue and White Disease.
Burke was supposed to change all of that.
Now, Burke *is* that. He is no longer an outsider who comes in and kicks ass. He's an insider who protects his children "on the bus." The bus that he's driving.
Blah.

[80s Leafs]

Just wait a couple of weeks until Burke is asked, "so where are these changes you were talking about before Christmas?"
The response will likely be, "We haven't seen an offer worth even talking about."
Hope I'm wrong but how long have we been seeing/hearing that statement?

[Account Deleted]

I guess by the sounds of all of us no one is untouchable.And I'm afraid our lover of ostriches raises a good point about Grabo.If I got over the Wendel trade I can get over anything.Let the trading begin.And Merry Christmas back at ya Ken and to the whole blog.

[Puckhead]

The Leafs organization (as a whole) is light years ahead of where it was 2 SHORT years ago when Burke took over. Even with the Kessel deal, we still have a 'for sure' young talent with the potential to be elite. Not a 1a stud, but a hell of a 1b complimentary player. But for those blinded by their rage over this trade....
.
Front Office Depth - Burke, Nonis, Poulin, Allaire vs ... JFJ? All Burke's work.
Prospects - Bozak, Hanson, Ryynas, Monster, & Scrivens - all recruited & won over by Burke when being chased by multiple teams. Whether they turn out or not is irrelevant. Many teams wanted them, Burke got 'em. That's whats important. Add in draft picks such as Brad Ross, Greg McKegg, & Kadri & now we have a prospect pool. Under JFJ .. not so much.
Cap Management - 4 million this year, $21.3 next year, $36.2 the year after. Enough said. Traded two 'untradeable' contracts, in one deal. Thank you Anaheim.
Pro Squad - Kessel, Phaneuf, Versteeg, McCarthur, Army, Brown - all good pieces brought in by Burke.
.
I'm a hardcore Leafs fan, 36 years and counting. I've seen losing. But I simply don't get those who scream daily after every loss, yet state they have the patience to rebuild. Burke has been at the helm for only two years, in a rigid cap system, after inheriting a complete mess. There have been mistakes, but he's purged the deadwood and is building it back up piece by piece.
.
Patience Leafs Nation....let's not run a good man out of town based on sports talk-radio hyperbole.

[waffles2010]

Gotta say that for the most part I have to agree with Denial. The willingness to win at any cost never seems to be there. Players in Toronto are happy, they are still rich, adored by fans at practices in the cold, will outlast the coach or GM. They really seem content to lose year after year, Kaberle is still here and WANTS to stay, even now. I think that is in essence what blue and white disease is. Never thought of it that way before. It seems obvious that Burke has it now too. Don't boo our captain, he does good work for charity and changed the radio. We are the problem too, Leafs TV, merchandise for the family. Tickets and concessions. We buy it all. They lose every year, yet continue to grow revenue. Getting your ass handed to you on a nightly basis should be the worst thing to happen to a professional athlete, but it really doesn't seem to be the case in T.O. Other teams have fights in practice, a result of competition or ego, whatever. Like when Primeau fought Probert. You then hear the coach say nothing but a couple of guys wanting to win. So Burke isn't sleeping, I hope he can get a trade worked out that will help us, more than ever I think we really need a leader on the team. Do you think if we traded our entire roster for Sydney Crosby, all of them, and played Crosby with the Marlies, would we be better off than we are now? Second question, any chance that Pittsburgh would go for that? This is really a sad realization for me, I am going to have a snack to feel better. I hope that I have waffles in the freezer. Should we call Burke the big eggo or the big ego. I really hope that he succeeds before it becomes 86 years between cup appearances. I can't wait that long, or live that long I imagine.

[TG77]

I like Moe's self-conversation there about the Penner trade. I doubt this would factor into things but Penner's offer sheet is what soured things between Lowe and Burke so would Burke still be annoyed with Dustin for signing the offer sheet? I don't like McArthur being part of any deal to be honest. He is the closest we have to a point per game player and he actually hits. Just because he is going to be due for a raise next year doesn't seem to be a good reason to trade him. Jiggy and Kaberle represent $11 million in cap space so I don't mind if an extra million goes to McArthur (or even a bit more) next year. I can't see Beauchemin really getting too much attention on the trade market given 1.5 years of under-performing and isn't he at about $4m per year give or take. If they are going to make a trade with the Oilers, I would like it to include at least one other forward, maybe a Cogliano who despite seemingly having a lot of skill hasn't panned out but seems to play well in front of his friends and family in T.O.

[moe green]

I forgot about the offer sheet TG77, good point. I really like MacArthur for his play and his smarts. I think he's probably a great dressing room guy too. But I also like Grabovski and Kulemin. I think they work well together and are improving as we speak. Who does that leave as trade fodder? Who can we package to get a first line forward with size and pop? I think that leaves Kadri and Schenn. Maybe packaged with a Beauchemin. Or, like I said, two French-Canadians, Beauchemin and Giguere to Montreal. But who back? A three-way deal? He could take the "Gnomez" contract off Montreal's hands. Maybe get a pick back.

[Pyramid Power]

Lots of outstanding posts here and well done Vinay getting Burkie out for lunch. Saw an excellent article about him in a major American magazine about the personal hell he is still of course going through since his son died. Very moving article to say the very least.

Would provide the link here but I do not know how to do that. Required reading for serious Leafs fans wanting to get a look into the psyche of Brian Burke. The link can be found in a recent post about Burke by Puck Daddy at Yahoo NHL for those who are interested.

I can't imagine being him as I stated on another blog. To have brought in so many players, and done the work that he has done to overhaul this sick, sick organization that he was left with as Puckhead notes above and see no progress must be devastating to him.

You look at our prospects, picks, signings etc... Who among them has stepped up and really surprised with their inspired play? Goose? No. Kessel? No. Phaneuf? No. Giggy? No. Beauchemin? Emphatic no. Komisarek? Massive no. Caputi? No. Kadri so far? No. Army, Brown, MacArthur? Yes. Nothing great but damn fine and playing at the levels he probably thought they would. Sjostrom? No. Orr and Rosehill? Doing their jobs. Decent. Rynnas doing very well for the Marlies.

Unable to move Kaberle for fair value before August 15th and his trade window opening must have hurt. Watching Kaberle deteriorate by the shift must be painful. Brought in Lebda because in my opinion he thought Kaberle would get dealt. How has he been rewarded by overpaying Lebda? Horribly so far but possibly hope for Lebda up front. We will see.

I am beginning to think Rynnas MIGHT be our answer in nets even though he has yet to play a second in the NHL. Am losing faith in Goose and never had much faith in Giggy to begin with. I am still hoping Giggy is done for the year, and we can clear up his $7 mill in cap space.

I suspect, just suspect, another 'dynamiting' of this team could possibly be coming sadly enough. Just a guess there. $4 mill in cap space now, with the Giggy money that would bring a nice $11 mill to the cap room kitty. I like that.

Get some sleep Mr. Brian Burke. Kudos to you being loyal to an old friend, possibly to a fault, in Ron Wilson. Hard to believe FOUR ex-NHL'ers in Wilson, Zettler, Hunter and Acton can't get our special teams together and have the time ready to play from the opening whistle.

I truly do wonder if not only the list of disappointments on this team, his son's death and the possibility of having to fire Wilson is keeping this man awake at night. The combination of all this must be brutal on his physical and mental health.

I'd be feeling like "horseshit" too.

I anticipate a major deal or deals going down shortly after the trade freeze expires, and possibly some January shockers. I see Kaberle and Beauchemin gone amongst others with Kaberle waiving his NTC. It is fun to speculate about possible trades, but there does not seem to be much point after the shocks of last January 31st and the superb Giggy and Phaneuf deals. We will see what rabbits this man can pull out of his hat this year.

IN BURKE WE TRUST! Bring Leaf Nation back to regular deep playoff runs Brian. We love ya man! Keep the faith, and again, get some sleep.

[Pyramid Power]

Forgot some players in a previous post.

Burke very likely happy with the play of Grabovski and Kulemin. Kulemin an excellent signing last summer, and it would appear signing Grabovski to his deal was a great move too. I am guessing those two are not keeping Burkie awake at night.

Hanson? Disappointment. Bozak? Jury out but a lot is being asked of him. C+ would be my grade for him.

Stalberg? Traded for Kris Versteeg along with Chris DiDomenico and Philippe Paradis. Thought that deal was theft at the time. Now beginning to wonder with Stalberg enjoying quite a bit of success, and possibly more talented than Kris Versteeg. Hated to see those wheels leave us, and if his hands ever catch up to his feet look out. Burke may really regret that trade.

A fifth round pick to the Kings for Mike Brown. Theft.

Luke Schenn. Excellent. Has to be very happy with the way he has bounced back from a tough sophomore slump last year. I agree with many others that he is our most reliable defenceman. Gunnarsson's play this year has to disappoint Burke, Nonis, Poulin, Loiselle and the gang for sure. Prone to giveaways and too soft. John Mitchell? HUGE disappointment.

I hope each and every Leaf is at home enjoying their Christmas break with family soon, and truly looking hard in the mirror and asking if they are doing their best for this team.

Was nice to see the gesture the organization and players made going to resurrect that rink at Bathurst and Dundas yesterday. Outstanding. Brian Burke is a fine man and I hope beginning on Sunday for the Devils his professional life starts to take a very, very significant upswing with far less disappointment.

This year has been horrific enough for him on the personal side, and I do not know if he will ever recover from that despite some serious inner strength and force of will.

God be with ya Brian, and again, many citizens of Leaf Nation are praying for you and our team to do well. I surely hope that happens sooner rather than later.

[Pyramid Power]

Loved Vinay's recent uproarious comments about the central philosophical mission of this blog is to answer the question: Why do the Leafs hate us so much?

I would add to that: Why do the Leafs hate Brian Burke so much?

Seriously, just read the story about getaway day in the Star. Leafs have four huge games coming up starting on Sunday against Jersey.

Again, I was dismayed by a comment from a Leaf player. Kris Versteeg talking about the Leafs, "We've got to get back into this race, but we feel fine. The funny thing is, the effort is there. It's the way we put it all together - some nights it's there, some nights it's not. We've got to be more consistent."

Maybe it is just me, but I see too many comments by the Leafs that rub me the wrong way. Kind of laissez faire oh well, tough luck, ran into a hot goalie, we feel fine, it's funny etc...... Again, perhaps it is just me. Or is it truly blue and white disease, and have our players contracted this illness? I don't know.

[gettingcozywithsarkozy]

Just had to chime in as I see many people willing to offer Schenn up as trade bait. I would NOT ever trade him. As much as Dion is touted as the face of the franchise and the solid leader, I believe in a couple of years Schenn will surpass him if he keeps playing this way (the scary part is that I think he will only get better). I think that he will be the face of the franchise. I don't know how much wheeling and dealing can be done during this season (maybe some minor adjustments), because of the huge contracts that players like Komisarek and Beauchemin have (this will make them difficult to trade). PP, I too regret the loss of Stalberg, that guy was a couple tweaks away from becoming a force out there with his speed. Alas, we'll have to wait and see how this all pans out.

[Vinay Menon]

Here is the link to the GQ feature Pyramid Power mentioned: http://www.gq.com/sports/profiles/201101/brian-burke-nhl-gay-players-athletes

[Filip G]

What did you expect Burke to say? I mean really? You hear guys like Waters chiming in from their cozy backseat driver chair in a studio suggest Burke admit his mistakes and focus on a rebuilt etc. I hear the fans wanting him to own up to his mistakes like the Kessel trade etc etc.

I want you to imagine a scenario - Burke on the phones with other gm's after the trade freeze trying to fix this disaster (and believe me he knows its a disaster and that he is responsible for it). Imagine him trying to sell some of these stiffs and make a deal while at the same time throwing them under the bus in the media?

You really think he is going to start sending these stiffs to the minors to deminish their potential value even more? Are you kidding me, you pitchfork/fire/waffle wielding naive crazies wake up and smell the coffee.

If you tell me Burke should go - I agree he f-uped big time and I have no trust in his ability to evaluate talent after what i've seen. But do expect anything beyond what he had to say is sheer lunacy. I didn't even bother reading the rest of the interview as I knew exactly what he was going to say and should say - DUH

[Nik Culoman]

@ Puckhead....Thank you, someone with some reason and logic in what they are saying. The fans that complain and complain after each game (win or loss) do the true leaf fans a disjustice. They yap just because they have an avenue to do it.

"The Leafs organization (as a whole) is light years ahead of where it was 2 SHORT years ago when Burke took over. Even with the Kessel deal, we still have a 'for sure' young talent with the potential to be elite. Not a 1a stud, but a hell of a 1b complimentary player. But for those blinded by their rage over this trade....
.
Front Office Depth - Burke, Nonis, Poulin, Allaire vs ... JFJ? All Burke's work.
Prospects - Bozak, Hanson, Ryynas, Monster, & Scrivens - all recruited & won over by Burke when being chased by multiple teams. Whether they turn out or not is irrelevant. Many teams wanted them, Burke got 'em. That's whats important. Add in draft picks such as Brad Ross, Greg McKegg, & Kadri & now we have a prospect pool. Under JFJ .. not so much.
Cap Management - 4 million this year, $21.3 next year, $36.2 the year after. Enough said. Traded two 'untradeable' contracts, in one deal. Thank you Anaheim.
Pro Squad - Kessel, Phaneuf, Versteeg, McCarthur, Army, Brown - all good pieces brought in by Burke.
.
I'm a hardcore Leafs fan, 36 years and counting. I've seen losing. But I simply don't get those who scream daily after every loss, yet state they have the patience to rebuild. Burke has been at the helm for only two years, in a rigid cap system, after inheriting a complete mess. There have been mistakes, but he's purged the deadwood and is building it back up piece by piece.
.
Patience Leafs Nation....let's not run a good man out of town based on sports talk-radio hyperbole."

I have been saying this ever since I have started to post on this site. But people don't get care see fact, they don't care to understand the mess of an organization that was given to BB. They forget that only the season before 5 players came together and made a pact to block trades...(Thanks Mats, at least you left us with one last memory of your time here!) , Kaberle had just blocked a trade which would have brought in Jeff Carter, Sundin had blocked a couple of trades as well which would have launched the rebuild one or two seasons ahead of BB's arrival.

But no.....The so called "hockey experts" & "fans" can't get out of their head that over the years that they have chased out players like Larry Murphy, McCabe, Steen, ecT.. (ONLY TO WATCH THEM SUCCEED ELSEWHERE)....They also coddled such preannial loosers as Sundin, Kaberle, Tucker, Domi, ECT....

Now some " fans" have reduced themselves to throwing waffles.....Because in every great hockey town their supporters kick their team while they are down....This is all well good because a group of players who have played here in some cases less than 3 years need to carry the failed history of the past 43 years on their backs.....

By the way just to put this into context....Some of the player's parents weren't even born yet when the Leafs last won the cup...But yet we run these players to the ground, and sadly we may run a great GM, PLAYERS, COACH out of town only to once again watch this latest group do the exact same..PLAY BETTER ELSEWHERE.

People who would trade Schenn only show just their short sightedness....They forget that finally we have some blue chip prospects and we want to trade them!!! Years of watching our minor league system depleted and no real source to grab players as others were traded or retired....Hasn't sunk in to these people's heads!!

They want to go down the same path that for the past 43 years HASN'T WORKED!!!!!! Finally BB is building this team from the ground up, grown a pool of prospects to choose from...You you want to dismantle it now??? For what reason??? Doesn't that go against the very rebuild you so called fans all wanted???????????????

Complaints in Toronto are in abundance......Logic....is very sadly in short supply.

P.S. to those who know they are wrong and than come on and say.."Well we just want a winning team"..............Than get your heads out of your pooper....Understand that in short order BB has built up a prospect pool that we can develope in our system, that we have 9 players who were drafted in the first round all under the age of 28, he has made some blockbuster trades that no one even imagined were possible. If you can do better, show me how....Like I have said many times...If you think you can do it better, show me....I'd like to see your plan....Starting back to the date BB came on board.

Versteeg deal....Was a steal, the only reason Stalhberg looks so good is because he is playing with Kane and Toews.....What in the world did Stalhberg do last year, playing with Toronto??? While Versteeg was out winning a Stanley Cup...Stalhberg was sitting at home playing on his PS3. Now don't get me wrong, I liked Stalhberg but let's but this trade into perspective here, Versteeg has been playing great as of late...You just don't notice the same things because the team is struggling.

[Nik Culoman]

To those "fans" that have no faith or patience in BB's plan....Find another team than.....Why complain so bloody much!! What is complaining going to do to fix things??

@ Filip G, BB has no skill in assessing talent really????? Who built the American Olympic team that took Canada to overtime in the Gold Medal Game???? Who built the core of the Vancouver Canucks?? Who realized that Anaheim needed some talent and went out and grabbed Pronger, Salenne, and a couple of other players and won a Stanley Cup??

But you Filip, after reading a blog/newspaper, after watching a couple of Leaf games..You know it all....You have won a Stanley Cup...You are the hockey God!

No wonder this team struggles...Lesser GM's have had to make rash trades only to win for today...With "Fans" like these...BB was the GM this team needed, the headstrong type of GM who has the foresight to plan for the future...The boldness to take risks to build a winner.......

I like BB because he doesn't listening to the whimpering and ultra emotional "fan" base......

[Pyramid Power]

@Sarkozy Of the three NCAA guys that Burke signed that summer, Stalberg in my mind had the most upside. Got to give to get though and indeed we will see down the road who won that trade. Same with the Kessel deal of course.

Will take time to assess, but right now seeing the numbers Stalberg is putting up and the fact Quenneville has deemed the kid good enough to play on the Hawks first line is pretty impressive. In my opinion, Stalberg is the better talent than Kris Versteeg. More speed, more ability offensively. See how that works out.

@Vinay Thank you for posting that link.

@Nik Culoman Not everyone is against you brother. We are WITH you. You are the most contrarian cat I have ever seen. Love your passion for the Leafs, but I notice you posting the same stuff in different ways. I got the thrust of your message about 25 blogs ago.

And you should not call the Versteeg-Stalberg trade a "steal". Stalberg is playing on the Hawks top line because he has earned it. Toews and Kane are not the "only" reason why he "looks so good." Come on brother. The kid is very talented. That's why Bowman asked BB for him, and the two other prospects for Versteeg. Bowman is not an idiot.

[Robert]

Is it possible Burke doesn't read Vinnie's Blog, or the many magic posts that would lead him out of the wilderness? He is right in that Toronto does, during the game, push the other teams, dump and chase, cycle the puck and shoot from the outside. Just watched the Penquins last night. No dump and chase, they play the puck into the offensive zone, they set each other up and they don't take a lot of shots from impossible angles, but, they do score goals and they do win games.
I believe a lot of these guys in the blue and white dressing room have the individual talents to play the game. Most of them are quick on their skates, but dump and chase? They have no freaking system of attack! Their power play puck handling is beginning to improve, now Ronnie, get out your play book and teach them the rest. Well, okay, there are some chaps on the back end who should probably be playing somewhere else. But the forwards could be coached into fairly good lines. Someone has to take the talent available and create systems that use their individual strengths to advantage. You don't get that by juggling lines game to game.

[A True Leafs Fan]

Id take versteeg over stalberg I would take kessel over segiun and i would take phanuef over white... any day kulimen is the new poni and ill take gigure over toskala if you think those are bad trades then clearly you dont know which way is up

[Nik Culoman]

@Pyramid Power, me repeating my message for patience, logic, and reason......Only comes out because of the dribble and whinning I see from some people on this site.....

I hope one of my posts will lead some to embrace logic and reason...Thus enlightenment. I am sick of people claiming to be "fans" but that would entail some loyalty, and support not only while they are winning...But also while they are loosing.....

Understanding this team was in shambles and realizing it takes time to rebuild a winning team after 43 years rush judgement, stupid trades.....Chasing away of talent...ect.....We have waited this long, what is a couple more years so BB can do it properly and allow his changes to work themselves through the system??

I am not saying everyone is against me...But it has been great to see fresh new voices reiterating what I have been saying over and over again......

[Nik Culoman]

@ PP Stalhberg listed Sundin as his hockey idol......That says enough for me......I am happy he is gone.........Sundin only served Sundin....

I to this day love Sundin's line.." I don't want to be a rental player"....What did he become once he signed on so late in the season with Vancouver?????? A rental player! What did he do in his time in Vancouver??? With all the talent he was begging for in Toronto?? Nothing!!

When it came time to go his separate way from the Leafs....He didn't offer the team the same loyalty and respect he was given ( how many millions was this clown paid over the years????) and walked away and the Leafs have nothing to show for it.......

SO IF STALHBERG has Sundin to look up to....Than Bye Bye....Thank you Versteeg for bringing even more Stanley Cup experience to our team.

[Pyramid Power]

@Nik Culoman Losing dude losing. Not loosing. lol And it is etc.. not ect.... lol Etcetera gets shortened to etc.... OK? lol

All right sir. Keep on rollin' and good points above about Burke assembling that quality American Olympic team, and the tinkering he did to take Anaheim to a Cup in 2007. I often read people saying Burke 'inherited' that Cup winning team. Laughable.

[Pyramid Power]

Nik I agree Sundin's departure and his year in Vancouver were horrible.

I loved Mats though, and #13 brings back a lot of fantastic memories for me such as our Cup runs in 2002 and 1999 and so many great moments such as his 500th goal.

Clearly, we see Mats Sundin very differently. I consider him a class act, and one of the best captains the Maple Leafs have ever been blessed with. He tried so hard to bring a Cup to Toronto, but it just was not meant to be. Helped get us pretty close though.

Most Swedish hockey players look up to guys like Sundin, Forsberg, Salming etc... so don't blame Stalberg for that.

[gettingcozywithsarkozy]

@ Nik: I don't get what you have against Sundin. For you to say "Sundin only served Sundin" is ludicrous. This guy led the Leafs in points every one of his 13 years here (except for the one year Mogilny stole the show). He carried the Leafs through thick and thin (1997 and 1998) and put up the huge numbers even with guys on his line like Sergei Berezin, Mike Johnson, Ponkikarovsky, Wellwood, and Jonas Hoglund. He came through in the clutch scoring countless tying goals and overtime goals. He also led the team to two conference finals and 6 straight playoff appearances. While he may not have led the team to the promised land (then again neither has any other Leaf for the last 43 years including Sittler, Clark, Gilmour, etc.), he was a HUGE (biggest) part of the reason the Leafs enjoyed so much success in the post-season in the late 90s/early part of this decade. For you to rag on him for the fact that he didn't want to waive his no-trade clause because he wanted to "win in Toronto" is pretty pathetic. Yes, some blame him for holding out and becoming a rental player his last season and for not returning to the Leafs instead, but, would you want to play for a team that made it obvious they wanted to trade you just the season before so they could become (in their eyes) a "contender" after giving the better part of 13 years to the team? I don't know what more you can ask for a player. He may not have been a very strong vocal leader (then again he never know what or how much he said to the team behind closed doors), but he led on the ice night in and night out!

[Nik Culoman]

@ PP I am not sure if you remember the 2002 or 2003 cup run...Where Roberts carried the team to the semi finals......That year there was a rift in the dressing between Robert's Camp pitted against Sundin's Camp.

Roberts' carried the team one game away from the Stanley Cup finals...Not Sundin....Sundin came back into the line-up and the Leafs lost to the Carolina....But people give Sundin the credit for that run, not Roberts....

Sundin wasn't classy....If he were he would have granted the team permission to trade him when we all could have accepted his time here was done.....He spoke of not being a rental player...became just that.....He spoke of his "love" for the Maple Leafs and wouldn't help the team out in rebuilding....He brokered a deal between the Muskoka 5 to not accept trades that year....You speak of this man as classy???????

Sundin's last years in Toronto, were a complete joke...As soon as Roberts, Joe Nuewindyk left, this team bottomed out and hasn't risen ever since....Why you ask?? Because Sundin was never the Captain this team needed, I would argue had this team kept Roberts and let Sundin go, Sundin put JFJ over the barrel requesting that a NTC be added to his contract or he wouldn't sign again in Toronto...That is a classless act...

[Go Leafs Go]

Wow, just when I thought Nik Culoman aka Ostrich Lover couldn't get any lower...
.
FYI, Sundin accepted less than market value (when there was no cap) to stay in Toronto. You want to know what's pathetic? Other than your comments of course. Pathetic is the organization giving him a no-trade clause after he accepted less money and then trying to bully and embarrass him out of town in order to correct their own mistakes. That's pathetic. Pathetic is blaming Sundin for not waiving his no-trade clause. Pathetic is blaming Sundin for the Leafs current situation. Pathetic is making up stuff like Sundin "brokered a deal for the Muskoka 5 to not accept trades that year." Pretty much all your comments are pathetic. By the way, Sundin >>> Kessel. Kessel needs good players in order to be a consistent threat while Sundin turned mediocre 3rd and 4th line talent into 20 and 30 goal scorers. Now tell me who the more talented player is again...
.
Another FYI, there was no rift between Sundin and Roberts. The rift was between Sundin & Roberts vs those two clowns Corson & Tucker. Get your facts straight instead of making crap up.

[Pyramid Power]

@Sarko Lots of good points, and very well said. Superb post. The man led by example and was always a class act with the fans, media and his teammates. And so very very talented and so often very clutch.

He was saddled with crappy linemates throughout his career, and you never heard him whining about it in the media. He got Mogilny eventually and that was awesome. Always wished Alexander the Great (the first one in the NHL) would have shot more. He fancied himself a playmaker by then, and he was a damn fine one but that shot of his was lethal.

@Nik I recall no rift between Roberts and Sundin and two warring camps during the 2002 run. I do recall Sundin being hurt and that costing us badly against the 'Canes as he was not 100%. I give each and every member of that superb team full credit for getting us so very close again to a Cup final and possibly a Cup.

Remember how many rental players Sundin saw come waltzing into Toronto and suck? Ron Francis springs to mind, but many others. You might remember. It is very late over here and I am tired.

I don't blame him for not wanting to be traded, and to stick out his final year. But was very bummed to see him come back to Vancouver. That was ugly and not his finest moment.

I would assume that if he had to do that again he might have simply finished his career in Toronto. He was pretty pathetic in Vancouver and just used up roster space. I guess he wanted to play with the Sedin Sisters. I don't know. I was over here at that time, and do not know all the circumstances of that mess.

[gettingcozywithsarkozy]

In 2002, Sundin was huge in the early part of the playoffs until he went down with an injury, Roberts then took over in the 2nd round. Sundin didn't even play most of the Carolina series because of the injury so I don't know how there could have been a locker room rift between the two. The reason Sundin returned from injury early was because they ("Roberts" team were being spanked by the Hurricanes). He was much less than 100% upon returning and therefore the leafs got owned in that series anyways (I believe it was in 6 games). It wasn't only Roberts leaving that led to the down fall. Nieuwendyk, Nolan, Joseph, and then Belfour also leaving had a great affect on the team. Don't get me wrong I love Roberts but it's absurb the way you're trying to pin everything negative about this franchise on Sundin when in fact it's quite the opposite. Oh and his last 3 seasons in Toronto being a joke??!! Try 78pts in 70 games, 76pts in 75 games, and 78pts in 74 games. Yes a point per game season is really a joke. You know what the joke really was? The fact that the Leafs actually finished just outside the playoffs in those years with goalies like Raycroft, Aubin, and Toskla, and with players like Stajan, Hal Gill, Jason Blake, Wellwood, and Jason Allison. It's a lot more than can be said about the team since Sundin left.

[Johnny the Juice]

Vinay, I am not a Leaf fan by any stretch, but EXCELLENT interview. Burke was on the Fan 590 Tuesday AM and it was a joke, all they did was ask Burke about his musical tastes...

Nice to see Burke finally realize he needs to make some changes. Trouble is he is for some reason too attached to Wilson. A coach's only job is to make the team better than the sum of its parts...is Wilson doing that? NO.

Burke contradicts himself when he denies he needs a centre, than compliments Kessel for playing well without one.

The Leafs had WAY more problems in the Atlanta game after the first 2 minutes...How can Burke say the Leafs outplayed them?

Lastly, Burke says no one has been able to rebuild on the fly like he is trying to. WRONG. Atlanta is first example (they traded away their best player last year as a non-playoff team and look where they are now), Montreal is another (they completely overhauled their roster 2 years ago (the same time Burke took over the Leafs no less, purely through free agency, and look where they are now).

Looking forward to the next round Vinay...well done!

[Nik Culoman]

I am of the belief, if Gretzky can accept to be trade for the betterment of the hockey he loves...WHO IS SUNDIN for saying no??? Gretzky was emotional when he was traded but he also knew he was doing it for the team he loved.

Gretzky bit the bullet and went off to L.A........Yes, the Stanley cup winning Gretzky........The same Gretzky we call the "great one"..The same man that won MVP'S, AND TROPHIES GALORE....

Sundin.....for all the talk of wanting to win a cup....Turned down many chances to do so.....The Leafs were willing to grant him the chance to win a cup.....A chance to have a shorter summer break in Sweden to win hockey's ultimate prize and he turned it down...

The same Sundin who turned a smaller pay cheque in Detroit to sign in Vancouver and still became the dreaded Rental player he didn't want to be....If the team sucked as you around him...Why didn't he demand a trade so he could win?? Wouldn't someone who wanted to win at all costs, do just that??

If Toronto was a toxic wasteland of talent...Wouldn't someone with a competitive spirit not want to leave?? I don't feel sorry for him, because he had the chance to leave but turned it down......He could have accepted any trade...and did one more thing for the fans, who made this chump a Hero.....

Gary Roberts carried this team further than Sundin ever could....So what you are saying to me is that it is just a coincidence that the Leafs bottomed out the very season after Gary Roberts and Joe Nuewindyk left fr Florida?? That is just a coincidence right??? hmmm interesting coincidence....

How about this coincidence...The last year Sundin played in Toronto, and the team made there predictable dip in the standings right before the end of the season...Sundin planned his wedding for that summer....As soon as the season ended he jumped on a plane and got married....HMMMMM That is also just coincidence...

About my comment about Sundin inviting Tucker, Kubina, Kaberle, McCabe out for a dinner before the Trade deadline wasn't just a rumour...It had been discussed on TSN, SPORTSNET, THE STAR, SUN......

Does anyone remember the interview Cliff Fletcher gave after the trade deadline passed and none of those players accepted to be traded? He was pissed off......For Fletcher to express that much frustration with that team's yo-yo's perfomances...and than not accepting trades indicates to me that something was going on that we fans didn't see.

[Go Leafs Go]

Well said Sarkozy. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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As for the Leafs current situation: Those who keep saying the Leafs are only two pieces away from the playoffs aren't wrong. The problem is those two pieces happen to be a playmaking center and a power forward. Two of the most difficult pieces to obtain in case you didn't notice. Sure Burke was able to get a sniper, but look at the steep price he had to pay. How is he going to get a legitimate 1st line playmaking centre and power forward at that price?
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Burke has filled in the easy holes: grossly overpaid stay-at-home defenseman, checking forwards, goon, etc. These types of players are available at EVERY trade deadline and free agency period. Power forwards and playmaking centers don't grow on trees and they don't often become available through trade or free agency because they are so hard to come by. They're more often than not drafted and developed from within. Of course the Leafs wouldn't know anything about that...
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Good luck finding a legitimate 1st line playmaking centre and power forward without (once again) mortgaging the future Burke. You'll need it...

[Pyramid Power]

Well. Mr. Culoman I do beleaf you have just been crushed by Sarkozy, Go Leafs Go, and to much lesser extent, myself. lol

Never knew there was a rift between the cousins/clowns and Sundin and Roberts GLG. Or I have forgotten. Interesting and pathetic. Do you care to tell us more about that? I would find it very interesting to say the least. Used to party with Roberts while attending Carleton U. and studying journalism. Great guy. Fun guy. Me and my pals would go watch Roberts tear it up in the OHL.

Wonder why Burke & Co. did not hire Gary Roberts to our strength and conditioning coach? Wonder if they offered him that job and he turned them down. Strange he is now doing that for Stevie Y. down in Tampa instead of for Toronto.

[Alecia]

Great blog/interview with Burke,Vinay. I think it's good for Leaf fans to read/hear things like this from the GM at difficult times like these. It's refreshing to hear him feel the same as the fans and admit that it isn't going the way he had planned and that he has not given up, or will give up.

I agree with a lot of what has been said above, especially with Puckhead. This man has done a complete overhaul with this team and it's still going to take a bit of time to complete the missing pieces.

I'd also really like to say happy holidays, merry Christmas, happy new year, happy festivus and anything else you celebrate, to all the dedicated (and even the disgruntled and frustrated) Leafs fans. I always appreciate good intelligent leaf talk on here, given that I seem to be the only one of my group of friends (25 year old women, what do I expect?) who cares about hockey, I appreciate reading the comments on here. I know a lot of us have different opinions and outlook on things so let’s all get along and revel in the positives of our lives this holiday season. Here’s to hoping for a better started to the 2nd half the season (well technically, there’s more than half left but still…)

[Go Leafs Go]

OMG. There's just no talking sense into you Nik, is there? Gretzky didn't have a no-trade clause so he had no choice. Nice try though.
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He turned down those chances because he wanted to win a cup in Toronto. I respect him for that. He only left after the organization tried to bully and embarrass him out of town. That was very classy of them.
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Of course the Leafs play dipped after Roberts and Nieuwendyk left. What's your point? That doesn't mean Sundin wasn't the best and most integral player on the team. I'm pretty sure the Penguins wouldn't be the same without Malkin and Staal, but that doesn't mean Crosby isn't the best player on the team. Your logic makes no sense whatsoever, but what else is new.
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So you just assume they were all in on some grand scheme because they had dinner together??? Wow, talk about pulling at straws. Maybe, just maybe, they all requested no-trade clauses (which the organization gave them) because they wanted to win in Toronto. Whatever their reasons, they were given to them and they had the right to use them. That's the whole point of a no-trade clause. I can't believe you're blaming the players instead of the organization for handing them out like candy. Which by the way is still the case (see Komisarek). Not that it makes a difference because Burke is the only "genius" crazy enough to sign Komisarek to such a ludicrous contract.
.
Just stop before you embarrass yourself any further...

[Simmer]

@Denial
Come on, you can't be serious with some of those claims.

Not sure which goalie you're referring to. If it was Giguere, his contract was all that was stopping other teams from wanting him. If it was Goose (That one is for you Vinay), then I believe you're wrong about the teams wanting him. There were many teams that wanted him. It was him that narrowed his "short-list" of teams to 4.

None of our D would be in the top 6 on contenders? This statement is more than absurd. You can hate the Leafs all you want but the fact is that even with their play the way it has been this year, at least 4 of the Leaf defensemen would still be in the top 4 on every contending team.

And Khadri, the kid is 19. He hasn't been "ruined" yet. I don't agree with the way he's been handled so far either, but he is still very young and still has a bright future ahead of him if he can round out his game.

[Nik Culoman]

Go Leafs Go, You can't make Sundin a victim...If he chooses to stay...He made the choice to stay...You really buy that he says he wanted to win a cup in Toronto??? Now that is funny.....At the place the team was in especially final two years...Was there any reasonable chance of winning the cup???? Really?? You buy that??

If we couldn't win the cup in his early years where there was some talent to work with...You think we could have won it with Stajan, Wellwood, ect...hahahahaha Now that is rich....

If he wanted to win the cup as much as you all say he did, why not go somewhere where he could have won it??? I don't get or buy his excuse for staying...He played the fans against the team..Trying to make himself a martyr, he could have left or asked to be traded at any time before he was given that NTC....So don't make excuses for this looser...

Komisarek, has the ability to issue the Leafs a group of teams he would like to be traded to.....You better believe, if Komisarek is being offered to a team with the chance to win a cup..He would be gone in no time.....

I am not assuming..............I am going on reports, and Fletcher's post trade deadline news conference where he expressed frustration with Muskoka 5...Did you know that Kubina was on his way out...Than Sundin speaks with the guy and he stays on.....and rejects the trade........Do you remember when Burke came on....Even he made mention of the peaks and valleys of effort in each of the final two years....As soon as they were in playoff contention they went on to stink up the league and drop out of them again.....

Sundin has played the PR game to a tee.......There have been many players to have been chased out of town for a lot less..Sundin we coddled for years...He was the Captain of a loosing team......So why not hold to him to the same standard that some on this board hold today's players??

Why bash Sundin for the same loosing we see today?? If we are easily ready to chase this roster out of town...Why not Sundin who in 13 years did nothing but lead this team to failure?????? Part of the 43 years you all complain about.....Are 13 years of Sundin's time here....But he is given a pass for some reason...

It is a joke to think we are ready to trash this group of young kids learning on the job, but Sundin seems to always get a pass....

13 years of loosing get's erased and forgotten.....But I am sure the summers in Sweden were to die for...

[waffles2010]

Wow Simmer, the Leafs top 4 would be top 4 on any contending team. Really?Really? Really? As a Leafs fan, by definition a little crazy, that is the most delusional comment I think I have heard on this blog. It is so ridiculous I can't bring myself to list the D'men on the contenders who are way ahead of the Leafs on the depth chart. Hey Nik Culoman, please take your medication, the rant on Sundin was retarded. GM gave him a no trade clause, Sundin used it. End of story.

[Go Leafs Go]

PP: By all accounts Corson was questioning the ice time certain players were getting and wanting more for himself and Tucker. This didn't go over well with Roberts and Sundin as they are team-first type of guys. That coupled with Corson and Tucker's antics on the ice didn't help matters either. They felt he was a distraction to the team and apparently it got so bad at one point that Corson couldn't even be in the locker room before the game. It eventually led to Corson walking out on his contract and the team.

[waffles2010]

Nik, Sundin gets a pass becasue he produced night in night out for 13 years. Always against the other teams top dmen, best checkers etcetera. He always put up numbers, he was a very, very,very good player. He had to play with Jonas Hoglund for season after season, for craps sake. Sundin was not the problem, they were close with him, not 27th or 29th in the league. They made the playoffs, even a conference final, while he was hurt. Did Sundin kick your dog or something, date your mom perhaps? You have lost any credibility you had here Nik.

[Simmer]

Pittsburgh Top 4 - Letang, Orpik, Goligoski, Michalek
Philadelphia Top 4 - Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, Carle
Washington Top 4 - Green, Carlson, Alzner, Hannan
Vancouver Top 4 - Bieksa, Hamhuis, Edler, Erhoff
Detroit Top 4 - Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart
Dallas Top 4 - Robidas, Daly, Wowitka, Grossman

So you're saying that you wouldn't replace ANY of those players with Phaneuf, Kaberle, Beaucheman or Schenn?

[gettingcozywithsarkozy]

Okay I gotta echo PP here once again... it's "losing" not "loosing". Anyhow, I don't want to make it seem like we're ganging up on you there Nik, but your points are fairly weak and don't stand up well to scrutiny. You claim that Roberts leaving was what caused the downfall of the Leafs. A look at the roster before and after the lockout might give you a clue why the "downfall" of the Leafs happened (coincidentally) at that time. Here are just a few names that were on the team in 2004 and gone by 2005 (the first season after the lock out), besides Gary Roberts: Joe Nieuwendyk, Owen Nolan, Alex Mogilny, Brian Leetch, and Ron Francis. You may laugh at some of the names there, but make no mistake, where some of these players were over the hill, they definitely provided a huge boost in leadership. Thus, Roberts is NOT the only reason the Leafs tanked after the lockout.

Waffles: I too find it hard to believe that all top 4 leaf d-men would be a top 4 on any other team, but I do believe Kaberle and Phaneuf would be (and from his play this season Schenn as well).

[Go Leafs Go]

Nik, Nik, Nik, please take our advice and just stop. Each comment is worse than the last... if that's even possible! If you call Sundin's 13 "loosing" years (it's losing by the way) here a failure then I guess the same can be said of Sittler, Gilmour, Clark, etc. There's only one Stanley Cup handed out each year and no one player can win it all on his own.
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As for the no-trade clause issue, the organization gave it to him after he left money on the table to stay in Toronto. Maybe he didn't ask for a trade because he didn't want to turn his back on the team. Seems to me like he has more character than to demand out when the going gets tough. Character is something this organization is severely lacking after the way they treated him in a pathetic attempt to correct their numerous mistakes.
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The only problem with your Komisarek scenario is that no one wants him. Burke is the only "genius" that thinks Komisarek is worth 4.5 million a year for 5 years!
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Now please take our advice and stop embarrassing yourself anymore than you already have...

[waffles2010]

Simmer your post said all Leafs dmen, not one or whatever you are saying now. Sarkozy, maybe, on a team here or there but there is no way in my mind that it would ever be Kaberle. Look I like him but he is a liability in his own zone without the puck, he never shoots on the PP. Don't you think Mike Babcock would kill him. Phaneuf brings some things to the table but he gambles too much for a contending teams top 4. Second pair minutes if he would stop gambling in a close game. Can't have 2 on 1's the other way while he goes for a big hit. Example, Kronwall in Detroit is also a huge hitter but he does it at the right moment. Beauchemin was a top 4 d man, he isn't anymore. Schenn is the one that I think might be, he is young though, that is really my only reservation. Maybe 4th or 5th minutes for Schenn on any of those teams except Detroit and Philly. No way he cracks top 4 there. He is still learning, but he doesn't offer much in the offensive zone yet. Lets just say that in 2 years Schenn will be top 3 on any team in the league, just not right now. I believe that he will be special in the league, if Wilson keeps him from under the bus.

[TG77]

My understanding was Corson hooked up with Mogilny's wife and that is why Alex left the team for personal reasons mid-season for a few games. I am sure Tucker being a complete wingnut on the ice had something to do with it too. It was reported that there was a Sundin/Mogilny/Roberts held end-of-season party and Tucker/Corson held another one. I believe Travis Green was on the Corson/Tucker side. Weren't the Leafs centres behind Sundin something like McAuley, Green and Reichel the year they made a run to the conference finals? That is some serious lack of scoring support so Mats must have been doing something right. I am really glad I got to see him score his first goal for the Canucks live a few years back and actually by the time the playoffs came along with the Nucks, he was close to a point per game. Not his finest hour but he looked a lot more dangerous come playoff time (albeit a step slow).

[TG77]

On a side note, Stallberg was a Leafs draft pick who went the NCAA route later and came to the Leafs after he graduated from Vermont. I believe that would make him a JFJ pick. I also didn't like seeing him go the Hawks (same with DiDominico to be honest) but I still think adding Versteeg will end up being a good trade (once the training staff crazy glue his mouthguard in place). He scored some huge goals in the playoffs last year and was a rookie of the year candidate two years ago so, unlike year's past it wasn't a 1st rounder for a 35-38 veteran on his last legs. That seems to be the difference in these trades is that Burke's mortgage on the future looks like an attempt to still add players who are hopefully still a few years from reaching their prime.

[moe green]

Great, so Lou Scrooge-moriello decides to can his coach just before Christmas. So now we get to face a rejuvenated Devils team on boxing day. Merry Christmas d---head!

[Go Leafs Go]

The Corson/Mogilny rumour is false from what I hear. It was just someone reaching their own conclusions after Mogilny left the team for personal reasons. Coincidentally Corson was away from the team at the same time so this person assumed he was sleeping with Mogilny's wife and that was why Mogilny left for personal reasons. A bit of a stretch, but the rumour grew wings and took off.

[Ostrich Lover]

Someone wrote "Just when I thought nik kulemin aka Ostrich Lover..." Are you kidding me? Why is everyon here who isnt an idiot assumed to be me in disguise? I tell you one thing, I couldnt disagree more about Mats Sundin. I think Leaf Managemnet treated him like crap at the end and I dont blame him one bit for not waiving his ntc. I think anyone who does is a moron. As for the guy who suggested we trade Schenn and kadri, while in the same breath preaching for a patient rebuild, I just wanna ask one thing: what the hell is wrong with you, and why do you even bother posting your insance opinions?

[Ostrich Lover]

"Phaneuf brings some stuff to the table, but gambles too much to be top four on a contending team" That, rigtht there is THE WORST COMMENT I HAVE EVER SEEN. Phaneuf once made TEAM CANADA and will one day win a NORRIS TROPHY , also, he is easily one of the TOP FIVE DEFENCMEN in the league. I am not sure what you have been smoking, but to think that ANY TEAM IN HOCKEY wouldnt kill to have Phaneuf on their team, shows you know absolutley nothing about hockey. Phaneuf would be the number one defensmen on just about every team in the league that doesnt employ Lidstrom, Pronger or Chara. Yeah thats right, I am saying that Phanuef is more talented than Doughty, Seabrook, Keith, Burns or Webber- those guys may have been better for the last 15 months, but Dion will turn it around and guess what -Hes YOUNGER THAN ALL OF THEM (except Doughty, but talk to me when hes been in the league a while).. Phaneuf is so good that he potentially could be the greatest player in franchise history.

[waffles2010]

An addition to my last comment, I have Paul Martin in the top 4 in Pittsburgh, so no top 4 positions there either. ( Letang, Orpik, Goligoski are the others). I had to check, where did Dallas come from? Last time I looked the Leafs were handing them an embarrassing loss. Who knew?

[waffles2010]

Looks like Vinay is having an afternoon nap. I say he deserves it. This blog is great. It seems like hard work, but great.

VM Replies: Not napping! Just tied up with some non-Leafs work right now.

[waffles2010]

Simmer, you are relieved of the worst comment ever. Phaneuf is in the top 5 in the entire league. That comment is so bad, all I can so is throw waffles at it. Really? Really? Really? Top 5? No my good ostrich he is not. Not now not in 5 years. Who else thinks that the ostrich is really Nik Culoman? sorry if that has already been stated.

[gettingcozywithsarkozy]

"Why is everyon here who isnt an idiot assumed to be me in disguise?" <--- Ha ha, great quote... truly comical! However, I must disagree with you, Ostrich, that Phaneuf is one of the top 5 d-men in the league. As much as I would love for that to be true, I don't know of many coaches/GMs that would take him over numerous other defensemen like Pronger, Chara, Lidstrom, Doughty, Keith, Weber, Letang, or even Mike Green. He does have potential, we all saw this early on in his career but I think the question is "which Dion are we going to see from here on out?" Is the answer the Norris trophy candidate from a couple of years ago or the careless-hitting, net-missing, Bryan McCabe resembling guy we are seeing now? For the sake of the Leafs (and us fans), I hope you're right Ostrich, and I hope he returns to the form he was in early on.

[TG77]

I don't think there can be much debate about whether Dion deserves mention in the top 5 in the NHL given Team Canada had 7 defenceman this year in Vancouver. of which Dion wasn't one and no one would rate him above Chara or Lidstrom and further, Mike Green didn't make team Canada so that is one other better player ahead of him. Dion looked like a lock to make this team even 1.5 years ago but clearly failed to impress the team management. I would say I trust Steve Yzerman (this made me think of when Bill Clinton called him Stever Izerman at the White House), Mike Babcock, Ken Hitchcock and Ken Holland over any of our evaluations of Dion's talent. As for whether Ostrich is Nik, I don't really care to be honest but I want to know the origins behind Ostrich lover. Please explain, I am actually really curious. They just don't seem like that loveable of an animal. Kinda ugly to boot.

[Hoofheartz]

Ostrich, you must've come to this blog to make your insane (notice the correct spelling) predictions, prognostications and guarantees because there is no opportunity for someone to "agree" or "disagree" with you as there is on the other Leaf stories you continuously post on. BTW, how's your prediction of Kadri being rookie of the year and Kessel scoring 60 goals this year coming along?