Guest Post: Why the Leafs should keep Tomas Kaberle

The Value of Loyalty

BY MOE GREEN

Let's re-sign Tomas Kaberle to a long-term deal. No, I didn't say trade the bum at the deadline for a second-rounder. You read correctly: Let's re-sign him. To a long-term deal.

To my way of thinking, loyalty should be worth something in the NHL. Quite a lot, actually. The Kaberle situation is unique. He is the longest-serving Leaf. He is a former all-star. He is a soft-spoken, thoughtful player who you can count on to play a clean and honorable game. He is, if nothing else, a class act. A rarity in a league chock full of brash, young, disrespectful players and outright louts and goons.

Kaberle is also a good puck-mover. With a very few exceptions, there's no one on the team who I'd rather see with the puck when the other team is bearing down on a forecheck. He is cool, sometimes frustratingly so. He sees the ice well and is a brilliant passer. He is one of the few Leafs who consistently puts it on the tape.

He has taught Luke Schenn a thing or two about composure. He sits 33rd in shots on goal for defensemen. That's more than Jay Bouwmeester, Chris Pronger, Drew Doughty and equal to Kevin Bieksa and Sergei Gonchar. Though he only has one goal this year, he sits 12th in the league in points among defenders.

And he has more assists than the next three Leaf defencemen (Beauchemin, Schenn and Phaneuf)... combined!

Trouble is, Kaberle is also second-last in the league in shooting percentage (only teammate Phaneuf is worse). For a guy who is a pinpoint passer, a guy who once won the accuracy competition at the all-star game, this chronic misfiring is a mystery.

He's also playing this season like a short-timer. He has only one minor penalty – quite a feat for a Top 4 defenceman in the NHL. It's almost as if Kaberle is afraid to get a boo-boo. And I'm not sure I blame him.

Does Kaberle like or respect Ron Wilson? If you believe the off-hand remarks Kaberle's father made over the summer, the answer seems to be "no." Ron Wilson has a certain style. None find it charming, though some could argue it's been effective through a long career. Wilson has at times called Kaberle fat, soft and even benched the long-serving veteran. And no one can deny that removing the "A" from his sweater was a classless act.

Whether he resigns or is fired, and close friendship or not, I don't think Wilson will be along for the ride past the end of his contract. He may not even be back next season. So If Kaberle is re-signed by Burke, you can virtually guarantee he will outlast the coach he probably doesn't like.

And rightfully so.

Finally, a lot of people will invoke the Sundin Argument and say they don't want Kaberle because he is not a "winner." What does this mean? Does it mean players such as Sundin and Kaberle "don't have what it takes" because they won't waive their no-trades and move to a contender at the deadline? Does it mean "winning" is more important than who you play for?

For the people making this argument, a guy who plays out his career with the team he loves, for the city he calls home, is in some way a "loser." Whereas guys like Ray Bourque or Marian Hossa – hired guns who change teams for a twilight shot at a championship – are "winners?"

I see it completely differently.

To me, those guys are nothing more than self-serving mercenaries. There is no honour in changing sides to win. I don't think history will look more favourably on the careers of Hossa or Bourque because they won a Cup. I'm trying to imagine Rocket Richard changing teams to join the Leafs to add to his arsenal of Cup rings. I know it was a different time. But I think he would rather have died than worn the Blue and White.

So re-sign Kaberle. Offer him a deal below market rate to stay. Where are we going to get as consistent a point producer and puck mover for less money? Sign him to a three-year deal, if he'll have it, for what he's making today. Not only will you solidify the defence for the Leafs' Cup run in 2012, but you'll have sent a message to the team that is far more valuable than money.

I think it's an excellent lesson to teach young players and the right kind of bait with which to entice future free agents. Just ask class organizations like the Detroit Red Wings. You'll have paid more than lip service to the notion that class and loyalty are worth something these days.

 

The pseudonymous Moe Green cheers for the Leafs while living deep in the heart of Texas. Now that's loyalty.

 

 

 

MAIN PHOTO: TARA WALTON/TORONTO STAR

Comments

[Nik Culoman]

Are we going down this road again?? Kaberle can't and won't be around when this team becomes competitive...Kaberle, is at a stage in his career that this guy isn't getting any better.....If anything most nights than not, makes defensive mistakes and doesn't shoot the puck to make it worth keeping him.

How many players need to come and go before we realize that if we keep a player past his Best Before date than the same loosing we all hate will only continue. Brian Buke is planning for the future, no thoughtful argument can be given to think that Kaberle is the piece which will take us to the cup in the future... He couldn't do that in his prime, what makes anyone think he can do that today or even tomorrow?

Kaberle, was a great a leaf, but isn't one now. Is it just me who has noticed that his point totals have decreased year after year?? He was a none factore in the second half last year, what has he truly done this year to warrent a contraction extension?

Let's stop be bleeding hearts, and let's trade this guy and get something if anything of value for him. Hasn't anyone in LEAFLAND learned anything from the Sundin fiasco?? How many more assests need to slip through our hands with nothing to show for it, before we wake up and go forward in a different direction. I am sure people will say trade Grabbo, Komi, Giggy, and so...But what can these players truly get us?? Grabbo, I would keep because he seems to be getting better each year..and the other trade bait can go to the highest bidder...Kaberle needs a new environment, and Leaf fans need to learn to say good bye...

If we keep him, now that is a true sign BLUE AND WHITE DISEASE IS STILL STRONG IN LEAF NATION.

VM Replies: I had a feeling you'd weigh in on this topic.

[Nik Culoman]

@ Moe, yes winning is more important than who you play for....Who plays in the NHL only to wear a jersey???? You play to win the Stanley Cup, if you don't have it in you to win...Than see you later, we don't need you...We want and deserve a winner, and if Kaberle isn't part of the solution because of age and decline in play....Than he is part of the problem that needs to be traded and dealt with.

[We BeLeaf]

Well done Moe.
I miss the Kabby/McCabe pairing of years ago. They were dangerous on the PP. That being said, loyalty is rarely rewarded anywhere anymore, so re-signing Kabby might not happen. Does he want to stay with the Leafs? Definitely yes. The question is, does he want to play for Wilson? How much respect would anyone have for their coach if they were in the same situation?

I recall in the blog where Vinay released the outtakes from his interview with Wilson that they were in a sense trying to weed out the players with Blue and White disease. I think Kaberle is one of the players who remain on their list. Since Burke honours no trade clauses, I doubt he'll be moved at the deadline.

Cheers

[Nik Culoman]

@ Moe...You bring up Raymond Bourque...Really?? That player gave up his heart and soul in Boston and was granted a trade to win before he retired...There is no one who thinks that is bad, He wanted to win and after all the years of loosing and not competing for the Cup...

He was granted the opportunity to win the cup.....He wasn't greedy...He didn't ask for millions of unwarrented salary...All he wanted to do was to complete a dream to win the cup...That is admirable, and respectful..Didn't Boston get a package of picks and players for Bourque?? Which helped Boston in the future.....

[Crippler]

Good article Moe... I agree... Kaberle is an asset well worth keeping at the right price.... people seem to overlook his positive points due to his "softness"... different players bring different things to the table and not every player has to bring grit....

[Kirk]

Dear Moe, we have to ask each player day in and day out "What have you done for me lately?" Speaking of loyalty in a business is fine to a point however Pro Hockey is a business and sometimes business decisions need to be made. Kaberle was an integral part of the team however his time has come and gone given the cap hit that his salary would command. So no, we should not resign him as the team is going in a different direction. While his stats are good, he just isn't part of the puzzle any longer. He should have asked for a trade as soon as they removed the A as it could be a distraction and management was clearly sending a message. Moe, you missed the mark on this one in my opinion.

[KWood19]

Interesting piece. as composed as Kaberle is, and as much as resigning him will give off that 'red wings' vibe of loyalty, do you really think Burke sees that as a solid option to help the team moving forward? With players like Aulie, Mikus, and hopefully Gunnarson once he re finds (if he ever re finds) how he was playing last season, who are all knocking on the door to earn a long-term roster spot, leaving these kids in the Marlies organization or having them a healthy scratch may not (but also may) be the best thing for them. by resigning Kaberle, that automatically takes a roster spot away, and with Phaneuf, Beauchamin, Kommie, Kaberle, and Schenn, that really only leaves one roster spot for one of those defenders. by not resigning kabby, you open up another spot for a youngster to grab and run with, as well as freeing up some odd 4 million in cap space to use to go after a top line forward to play with/take pressure off of Kessel. Now, if say Kommie or Beachamin were not leafs next year, I'd be all for keeping Kaberle. but we need to allow the youth of this team to develop together, and while Kaberle's age and experiences certainly help with that, taking away a roster spot from a deserving youngster simply for loyalty reasons doesn't seem to me to be the right thing to do.

[waffles2010]

Well done Moe, your continued ability to succinctly make your points is appreciated. We have talked at length about Kaberle, you know that I hate him. I feel he is the most overrated player I have ever seen in a Toronto sweater.
Leaf fans love this guy. I have no idea why. I think the biggest problem is the second assist. An absolutely useless addition to the NHL. Yes he gets points. My personal view, I have no statistical evidence, is the majority of his points are second assists. Perhaps Vinay knows of a site that breaks down assists.
He's quiet and seems nice, he doesn't attract attention. He likes it here, he wants to stay. He wants to retire a Leaf. We love him for that reason only. He likes us, he really likes us. From now on I am going to call him Sally Field.
He doesn't score goals, he's pretty much a lost cause in his own zone. Unless he has the puck, he is good with it. I would much rather they keep Beauchemin than Kaberle.
Thanks again for the guest post. I am now angry, I am going to go for a walk until I can come to grips with the fact that I agree with Nik Culoman.

[Brian K]

Completely agree. Watching Kaberle more closely this year makes me realize I would miss him if he were gone. The last link to the contending teams of the turn of the century. Maybe somebody would step it up in his absence but do we want to take that chance?

Also, nobody knows what Kaberle would ask for in the summer. Perhaps he would give an even bigger hometown discount than he did last time, just to stick around and hopefully be part of the solution. Would a 2-3 million Kaberle next year be so reviled around these parts? I don't think so. But the mob mentality of Leaf Nation has surprised me before.

[CPH]

For me, the parallel is with Gilmour. When the Leafs needed to get younger, he agreed to the trade with New Jersey. Everyone knew that Dougie loved Toronto, and Toronto loved Dougie, but he did (or allowed to be done) what was best for the team at the time. That shows more loyalty than refusing to be moved, just because you happen to be comfortable here, and even though you're a liability to the team (as Kaberle surely is).

[Sensi-Bill]

Well done Moe.
Though not a Leaf fan, but a fan of reality-based opinion and decision-making, I find I agree with just about everything you say. (And have many of the same reasons for wanting my Sens to keep Philips.)
And if your opinion on Kaberle needs any further validization, just look how much, and how vehemently, one Re-Nikolous Culoman speaks out AGAINST everything you say.
I rest your (our) case. (g)

[Boo Who?]

Being a hugely loyal person myself (hey, I'm a Leafs fan, comes with the territory) I have nothing but respect for Kaberle. He's a skilled player, a class act, and definitely someone I don't mind having around to infuse a bit of common sense into things now and then. And for all the moaning people do about him, I don't think he's the main culprit in the spread of 'blue and white disease'. It's far more pervasive than the influence of that one man. Look at the comments made by our captain and our coach following the Flames game "we're just back from a road-trip...it was tough to find our legs etc." Excuses and passivity, and zero evidence that they felt compelled to come up with any real solutions or shoulder responsibility for the loss. Contrast that with the reaction of the Canucks following their loss to the Wild. The frustration and disappointment that they and their coach felt was palpable, yet you also heard them actually analyzing their play in hopes of preventing it from happening again. And this is a team that sits atop the league and can perhaps 'afford' to lose a few. The difference, I would argue, (more than the pool of talent they have to work with and the cohesiveness of that team in general) is that they don't want lose. Ever. If road trips and fatigue are a valid excuse, then they have even more right to use it than the Leafs do, as they have played four games in the last seven days, not three, and ALL have been on the road. Sure it catches up to you, and even the best teams will falter. But what makes them the best is that they feel accountable when things go wrong. Wilson looked so burned out and frankly, baffled, in the post-game interviews - is it any wonder the Leafs are directionless? I wouldn't have the confidence it takes to follow that man out of a burning building.

[moe green]

I have to hand it to you for making me smile again Waffles. "Sally Field." Is that a better nickname than "Octopussy?"

I think the last two years we have not seen Kaberle at his best for a host of reasons. He has been actively shopped and more or less made to feel he is not part of the Leafs' plans moving forward. He has clearly had his differences with the frequently abrasive Ron Wilson. This year he has had his value questioned by the fact that a trade could not be arrived at in the off-season and he had the "A" unceremoniously removed from his jersey.

He looks like he's going through the motions and his play has frustrated me as much as it has you over the course of this season.

But I'll bet if he had his contract extended that you would see the Thomas Kaberle of old return to the blueline. Then he would be only 50% as frustrating. I think a guy like him really needs to feel wanted. Call it a hunch.

[moe green]

@Nik Culoman - maybe Bourque wasn't the best example. I don't mind when a player does what Bourque does, but it holds no special place in my heart either. I suppose that had Sundin made a similar move, as a Leaf fan, I would have appreciated it. Or at least if he had retired and not signed for that legacy-diminishing half season with the Nucks.

[Nik Culoman]

Some of you including Moe, are missing the point......Kwood hit the point right on the head.......Kaberle would be taking up a spot that one of the young kids in the organization could be using to grow and to develope.

Waffles, has only reinforced my point...Kaberle's best days are behind him, and just because some of you are sentimental, doesn't change the fact that Kaberle is an aging assest that can't get this team anything if we don't trade him now for assests.

Let's be honest, he won't be resigning here, no discount no anything will keep this guy past this year. He will do what Sundin did, and the team is left with nothing...Kaberle has the blue and white disease....He hasn't won anything, and doesn't seemed driven to want to go anywhere to win either. He is happy with loosing, he is comfortable with loosing. So to say that he should say, only keeps with the tradition of loosing.

The leafs need a new and are on a new direction, and Kabby doesn't fit those plans for many reasons, age, contract and no winning pedigree. We should be giving a guy like Aulie, Lashoff, Gunnerson the chance to show us what they have, and who knows, what may happen. Kaberle, has expired...He is like milk, once it expires, all it ever does is get stinkier and stinkier as the days go forward.

[waffles2010]

Moe we were talking the other night about it being ok to lose in Toronto. Kaberle is content to lose here, he doesn't seem to care. He is CONTENT. This is exactly the kind of player that needs to go, as soon as possible.

[moe green]

I do agree that "content to lose" is unacceptable, but I'm not sure that is the case with Kaberle. He's just a different style of player.

And I'm not sure he's even on the downside of his career yet. If that were the case I don't think I would suggest signing him. I think he has a few years left on that carefully protected frame of his. At least it hasn't got too many bruises on it this season.

I wonder if the Janssen hit did something to his confidence. In any case, I think with his style of play he has a few good years left in him.

[waffles2010]

Moe, Kaberle has been in the league a lot of years. 11, he is 32 years old. I cannot see him being better than he is now. Do we really want players who need a fanboy as a coach? I hate the fact that they took away the 'A' from Kaberle, you have to trade him if you do that. Then to give it to Komisarek, was a huge slap in the face.
Look if you are going to look at a player who could be better next year under different circumstances I think its Beauchemin, not Kaberle. In my opinion, Gunnarson is ready, or will be by next season. The young guys including Aulie will need to play. We seem to be developing some players up front, or at least trying. There is no reason not to do it on defense as well.
Glad you liked the Sally Field nickname. I too like that one. Better than Octopussy, because I think something was lost in translation with that one. So its tough for me hang that one on the Goose.

VM Replies: For the record, Goose told me he did NOT want to be called Octopussy. But he's okay with Goose, Monster, or just about anything else.

[Geoff Read]

Hey Moe,

Good post. I'm also a Kaberle fan for all the reasons you suggest. That said, I think it's guaranteed he's gone at the end of the season. Burke doesn't want him, Wilson doesn't want him, they've treated him with a total lack of class, and I think the relationship is probably beyond repair. He will sign somewhere else.

People who complain and moan about the Sundin refusing to be traded thing kill me. How much exactly do you think they would have gotten for him? A couple of draft picks, no more. It would have hardly have turned the franchise around. And yet, for his desiring to, as was his right given the no-trade clause that the Leafs gave him, play out his contract in blue and white, some fans are willing to look beyond a career of dedicated service to the team and community, when, for much of the time he was the only player in a Leafs uniform worth watching, and pillory him like he's some kind of ingrate. It's absolutely moronic. This is the big difference between Toronto and Montreal fans - I cannot imagine Montreal fans being so stupidly vicious to someone like Sundin - say, Saku Koivu. It just wouldn't happen.

[gary]

wow one of the most ludicrous articles I've ever read lol get that guy out of here and now please Burkie!!

[waffles2010]

Vinay, if the Goose doesn't start making some big saves while playing better hockey. That kid named Reimer will be up with the Leafs, and the Goose will have other problems besides his nickname.

[EG]

Why would anyone not want Kabs back as a Leaf? I don't think the 2nd closest defenseman on Toronto has a 3rd of the points as Kabs. His plus/minus is pretty much the same as anyone else on the team and he logs 22+ minutes per game. 32yrs old is a great age for D-man in the NHL and Kabs could be very solid for another 4-5yrs....The guy has never really been injury prone and has been our best defenseman for the last decade and is still leaps and bounce our best offensive defenseman. Who will replace his 54+ pts per season? Obviously if Kabs is asking for a huge contract then that changes things but at the right price, Kabs should be resigned in a heartbeat.
All these other posters who just want us to dump Kabs need to have their heads checked!!!!

[The 5th Line Centre]

I agree with it all, and was even typing something about it earlier today to a friend.
Guys like Kaberle are rare, why not sign him to another bargain contract?
If you can't move him without consent and he doesn't want to go so why not lock him up long term?
This guy will be a top 2 Dman for several more years, and no one on the roster looks ready to take his place anytime soon. He is an elite puck mover who ranks 15th in the league for power play points, 5th among Dmen. keep him.
http://5thlinecentre.wordpress.com

[TG77]

I will offer an analogy I think somewhat sums up Moe's post here and please correct me if I am off-base Moe. I worked at a company that went through a bit of a public meltdown (see, it's a perfect fit already) and as a result, they had to lay off 10% of the global staff. The decision of who to lay off was essentially this: get rid of the older, established veterans of the company who had been there for years and basically it left the company with no one with an established relationship with the customers they still needed to serve. A few months later, nearly all of the older people they had laid off were hired back and the company got to pay them their severance and an over-inflated contractor's salary just to do what they were already doing before. It sent a bad signal to the younger staff that staying and being loyal is not something positively viewed by the company. So we move this to Kaberle's situation. Currently, who is the only Leaf d-man who can move the puck and find open men and doesn't take slap shot passes into their defensive partners feet (i.e. Beauchemin) or skate around on one foot (usually his back foot) and launch bad passes before gaining the centre red-line (Phaneuf) or just plain suck with the puck in general (Komisarek). I know Kaberle is a lightning rod in this town because of his lack of physical play and his guiding of players into the end boards and losing puck battles is annoying but look how much Schenn has developed this year playing with him. If the Leafs need a puck moving d-men next year who is a veteran presence, then why dump Kaberle for some draft picks and then likely overpay for another dud like Komisarek or Beauchemin in the off-season. I do agree with the posters suggesting Aulie's time is now so it makes sense to let Komisarek go since Aulie looked capable of chewing up the 12-15 mins of ice Komisarek gets.

[Becky]

Mr.Green, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Bravo. I 100% agree with everything you wrote. Kaberle is a great class act player and I would love to see him stay.

[Alecia]

Great article Moe.

I agree 100% and have been saying this all season.
There will always be people who don’t care for loyalty in hockey. It’s unfortunate because I think that someone like Kaberle, who has a decent amount of points as a defenseman this season alone (considering where we are as a team, being 12th in points in the league isn’t too shabby), could have found himself a spot on a team doing much better than the Leafs, perhaps in playoff contention. Instead he decided to stay in the city he loves, playing for the team he obviously loves and what does he get in return?

Okay so the guy doesn’t shoot as often as he should and he isn’t a proven goal-scorer, but his #1 priority on the ice is defence and out of all of our D men, he is probably the most consistent puck player. If his points and loyalty to the team don’t matter to anyone, then we should at least appreciate him for his influence on our other young D men like Schenn and Aulie (I will be surprised if he doesn’t graduate to the team next year). On a team where we have Phaneuf, Komisarek, and Beauchemin, I can’t believe it’s Kaberle who is getting so much slack. We should be happy that we have players who have proven themselves dedicated to this team.

[Princess Mononoke]

I agree with the substance of the article, and as a Habs fan I can tell you, the reasons invoked here for having Kaberle on the team are precisely the ones that make us wish we'd trade for him. If he doesn't resign with the Leafs, I hope he considers Montreal.

[Nik Culoman]

Why can't people admit that Kaberle's play as of late has deminished?? Why can't we just face the truth, that he hasn't done much these past couple of years. By all outwardly edvidence, seems content to loose....If not he would have left long ago.

He hasn't done much, the numbers prove it...He is no longer the number 2 defenseman in the League...He is def. behind Lindstrom, Seabrook, Bieksa, Myers, and so on.....There are better dmen out there, Kaberle at 31 just doesn't have the gas since being knocked out senseless against NJ Devils a few years ago. He is a defensive liability, and just isn't a force in his zone.

That is why most of us would be happy to see him go...That is the truth, stop being so sentimental.....Let's move on to the future...Because the past lacked much to be desired.

[moe green]

Agreed and an excellent illustration of the point TG77. Will we ever learn. Agree about Aulie too. I hope Brian Burke sees the value in loyalty - he seems like a sincerely decent guy.

[Boo Who?]

I just have to chime in with a 'yeah, what EG and Moe said'. :) If nothing else, the guy has the experience and play making abilities I think a team as young as ours can and should benefit from. He's good on the powerplay, and he doesn't take stupid penalties. Scoring goals may not be his thing, but there's a lot of substance to make up for the lack of flash. Our next most productive D-man is Beauchemin, who has 7X the penalty minutes, a third of the points and actually logs more ice time.

[ldv]

Moe, bang on! He really is a keeper.

[Nik Culoman]

People who want this guy around have BLUE AND WHITE DISEASE.....This is truly sickening, at the sentimental blabber that has come out. This guy is aging and slowly dying on a rebuilding team, he value if anything has decreased.

If we could have traded him for Jeff Carter two years ago, how many of you truly feel we could get a player of that caliber again for Kaberle???? We can't, we won't and that is a sign that this guy just isn't worth all these sappy feelings....His value is at an all time low.....

He seems content to continue to loose, there is no drive to win....No wonder this team hasn't won in years, too many people catch feelings for players, and we keep them beyond the point of value. Believe it or not, The Maple Leafs are in the business to WIN GAMES!! What better way to improve this team is to trade away an assest that is depeciating year by year...For maybe if we packaged him with someone for something of a apriciating asset.

So I go back...This should end all the debate...If you were the Flyers would you trade Jeff Carter for Kaberle today, one for one?? Understand that the Trade for Carter was almost completed had Kabby just accepted to be traded, that was roughly two years ago.

[Mark Jurdjevic]

Hey Moe,

I'm in total agreement regarding Kaberle.

When I was living in New Haven, CT, I met a Leaf fan from Texas whose girlfriend bought him a seat from the Maple Leaf Gardens, which was his throne on Saturday nights. We were watching playoff action--remember that?--between the Leafs and Flyers, I think it was 2003. In the previous game, Roenick knocked out Mogilny. In the game we watched, at a sports bar in downtown New Haven, Darcy Tucker flattened Roenick in the opening minute of the game. I was just wondering if you might possibly be that fan?

Mark

[moe green]

@Boo Who? - They often use the excuse of being a young team as well. That's one that Wilson uses a little too often and one that young players love to fall back on. It's almost indefensible.

But that's the kind of excuse that winners never fall back on. I agree, and don't think Kaberle is the main carrier of "blue and white" disease. I'm seen plenty of other players: Versteeg, Kessel and Phaneuf to name just three, who've exhibited more pronounced symptoms of the disease during interviews. It's like they're just reading from a list of talking points - like they really don't care.

That said, some players like MacArthur or Grabovski seem to genuinely care. I wonder if Wilson is part of the problem?

[Bring Back Glennie]

The basic fact here is that Kaberle is the most unphysical defenseman in the league. He's a smooth-skating creampie. Get rid of him.

[moe green]

@Mark Jurdjevic - no sorry Mark, a different Texan. But if I were that fan I'd have that seat bolted to the floor in my living room from which I would watch Kaberle's goofily smiling mug as he proudly carried the Stanley Cup around the ice - in June 2013! And yes, I vaguely remember caring about the playoffs too.

[waffles2010]

We like him, we really, really like him. It doesn't matter that the only thing he does well as an NHL defenseman is move the puck. So Moe, we resign him to a long term contract. We keep Schenn, I presume. Phaneuf is the captain, not going anywhere. Komisarek has a long term deal at way too much salary. Beauchemin has another year on his contract. Do we trade him? So this is where we are, we keep everyone. This means we have 5 NHL dmen under contract going into next season. I will remind you that the defence as it is right now leaves a lot to be desired. We continue to suck ad nauseum, because we like him. What do we do with Gunnarson and Aulie? Pressbox?
We not only don't want to trade him, we are now going to have resign him to a long term contract so that we can continue to suck. Great plan.
Four or five seasons from now we might need a puck moving dman, we need to cross that bridge when we come to it.
Everyone needs to do something, get a piece of paper. Create 2 columns, positive on one and negative is the heading on the other. Now we write down the things Kaberle does well and that he does badly. Let me know when anyone gets more than one positive. He passes the puck well. Negative side. He doesn't score, he doesn't hit, he is terrible at defensive zone coverage, he won't shoot, he makes 4 million dollars a season, never gets interviewed, doesn't seem like a motivator, can't separate the other team from the puck, ever.
The Leafs would be far better off spending the 4 mill for a forward who can score. Let some of the young dmen play, please I implore you. Do not resign this guy. How are we ever going to get better as a team if we continue to praise a guy who does one part of his job well. So much praise it sickens me.

[CanadaRocks]

i would resign kabbie only and ONLY if he was dumb enough to sign a 4 year 8-12mil contract. that would give the leafs 2-3 mil more in cap space. if he actually loves it here as he says he does then it might happen. if not (which is prolly more true) then trade him to a contender and get what you can. if washington is interested or dallas, or any team take the best deal as kabbie would prolly be open to going for 1 playoff run then testing the market!!

[Nik Culoman]

So I go back...This should end all the debate...If you were the Flyers would you trade Jeff Carter for Kaberle today, one for one?? Understand that the Trade for Carter was almost completed had Kabby just accepted to be traded, that was roughly two years ago.

So if you like Kaberle...Ask yourself the above question...Is Kaberle worth a Jeff Carter today??? If not, than maybe he isn't worth as much those that like think he is........His value has dropped, that is why BB was unable to make a trade last summer, now his stats are still crappy and yet you see him for who he WAS....Not for who he IS today...Let's stop living in the past, and let's move on from this guy.

[palbo]

my honest opinion - bb should have traded kaberle during summer of '10 for the best deal offered - in the long term, leafs would be better off - probably too late now.

[snacker]

Come on now...it actually makes zero sense to sign kaberle again - he's not getting any better, he has no leadership qualities (can't play defense, can't take anyone in his own end, very soft...the powerplay hasn't been good enough and he's out there every time). This guy needs to play on a team where he isn't a liability in his own end (ie. a team like Boston that can put him beside a guy like Chara). If he's used in the right system, he can still be effective, but the road the leafs are going down is pointless to take away ice time from young guys for a guy who accepts missing the playoffs year after year. What have the Leafs won with Kaberle ever???? Lets forget about what a nice guy he is and build a hockey team that contends. Time to move on - imagine what they could have gotten for him a couple years ago?? Now they'll get a 2nd rounder at best (If Wheeler is on the market it would be a steal for Kaberle at what he's worth now).

[joe]

Kaberle is a LEAF! Panic and Running scared will not help the situation. We have been getting rid of players that we think are washed up for the last 44 years because of panic, being calm and cool like kaberle might help. Honestly, how many Defensemen can the leafs really rely on? We need balance... Gritty Phaneuf, injury prone Beauchemin, Young Schenn, Who's going to calm and collective person to move the puck?

[moe green]

Nik, Kaberle's value may have dropped but the trade with Philly was proposed before Carter had his breakout season. In any case it's a shoulda-woulda-coulda hypothetical now.

I think Burke should have gone hard after Stamkos with every thing he had BEFORE Stamkos had his breakout season. Schenn, Kadri and Kaberle might have landed us Stamkos a couple of years ago. Who can say.

[red5]

Why do I get the feeling if these forums were around 25 years ago, we could substitute "Kaberle" for "Salming"? Kaberle is no worse defensively than anyone else on the team. Further, considering (without Toskala in net) teams generally don't score from outside the blueline, a player that can get the puck out of the Leafs' end as easily and effortlessly as Kaberle is quite an asset. I agree that the numbers have to be right to resign him (i.e. 3.5 - 4 mil hit), but if he's willing to stay at that price, than he should stay.

[We BeLeaf]

Maybe the Panthers will come calling now that McCabe is out 4 to 6 weeks with a broken jaw. And for something completely far-fetched, maybe the Wings will make a deal for Giggy now that Howard is injured. Maybe Lebda will want to go back too!

[Ken Baumgartner]

I said re sign him a few posts ago Moe so I agree with you. I bet he will take a pay cut to stay . He is a bargain for what he brings to the table. People don't like him because he is not a bruiser but there is more to hockey than that. He brings everything you say.

The Bourque comparion is interesting and is correct. Ray Bourque created his own problems in Boston. He signed at discounts all the time to the dismay of the NHLPA. Because he was the best player on the team it was established by management that he was to be the highest paid player on the team. None of the best players in the league would sign with Boston because they would not take a Ray Bourque discount just to play with him.

[KD]

One of Kaberle or Wilson has to go, and I think most fans would rather keep Kaberle. But please, look at converting him to a forward. Red Kelly made a successful late-career change and there's no reason Kaberle can't do the same. His vision and his playmaking abilities are well-suited to being a centre, if he can learn to take faceoffs. Defensively, he's not quite the pylon that McCabe and Kubina were, or that Blowchemin and Komi are, but he's close.

[KD]

Even better, trade him, if he'll accept it, and try to go after him as a FA, if he'll come back.

[Simmer]

Moe, I think the real gem in this article that you've written is the debate about championships defining the player. Ray Bourque was a perfect example, because it can beg the question; "Had Ray Bourque not been traded to Colorado and finished out his career in Boston, would he be considered less of a player?".

I've always been an advocate that championships should not define a player. Hockey is a team game, and occasionally some of the great players just don't have the pieces around them to compete for the ultimate prize. Osgood has several championships, but there are many goalies that I'd consider for the hall of fame ahead of him. Remember, if you have played your entire career in one city, you are clearly doing something right, because that shows you have played well enough to stick through several contract negotiations (not considering 17 year contacts).

Personally, if the price was right and the team's defense was in a different situation, I'd love to have Kabby back. I do agree with a lot of the points you have made, and I do agree about the loyalty factor.

The problem is, Hockey at the NHL level is a business, and it just doesn't make sense from a long-term standpoint to keep Kaberle. This actually has more to do with the contracts they currently have than Kaberle himself. As has been mentioned, if they keep Tomas, the prospects in Gunnerson, Blacker and Aulie suffer. There is only so much ice time to spread around.

My last point goes to those who insist Kaberle is content with losing. This is probably the most rediculous statement I've read so far in any of these blogs. Loyalty and drive to win are two completely separate categories. Perhaps Kaberle doesn't value a cup ring that he won playing with a team for 30 games quite as much as a cup ring won playing with a team for 15 years. In my opinion, who can blame him?

[Aaron Hickey]

Fantastic article Moe! One thing that has bothered me about professional sports in the last 15 years or so is how often players switch teams. Guys like Kaberle are hard to find nowadays in that they want to play for one team only. Those that do not understand why someone would want to stay part of a team have surely never been on a team themselves. Winning on team that has gone through tough times, makes winning that much sweeter when it occurs. And you forget that Kabby had a taste of success in Toronto and wants to be a part of it when it eventually comes back. How great would that be for a player like him! As a fan of the Leafs for many years, I appreciate how Kaberle grew as a player and developed within the Maple Leafs system into the slick player that he has. Sure I would love him to be able to pot a few more goals and move a guy in front of the net out of the way every once in a while but what he does do well more than makes up for this. I respect why he would want to stay and applaude Moe for seeing it from this perspective.

[Boo Who?]

@moe - I think a lot of the blame does have to be assigned to the coach. He's the team's leader, when things go wrong, by default he should shoulder the burden. And while I'm certainly not a Wilson fan, I'm not suggesting he become the scapegoat, any more than I feel Kaberle or Lebda, or Phaneuf, or whomever the angry mob wants to crucify that day, should become one. 'Blue and White disease' is like lupus, it mimics everything and it attacks everything, making it nearly impossible to diagnose and treat.

That said, I do think Wilson is ineffective. He's stretched himself too thin. I don't doubt that he's dedicated and driven to improve this team. I just don't believe he's capable of it. Have you ever worked for a perfectionist, micro-manager type? They're exhausting to be around. They set people on edge because they're hyper-critical, appear to trust no one but themselves and are stingy with praise. And they can be frustrating because they're often inefficient, taking forever to analyze things to death when lesser mortals just want a simple instruction or response. (Ahem.) That's precisely what he strikes me as being. He cares deeply, and he knows exactly what needs to be done. There are simply too many fires for him to put out, and it takes a certain personality to manage that kind of situation effectively without flaming out themselves. If he were in a situation where his energies weren't so scattered, he might be able to produce some brilliant results. Add to his apparent tendencies the fact that the Leaf-watching public/media are the biggest micro-managers on EARTH and constantly breathing down his neck, and you have a perfect recipe for a complete Type-A meltdown, which I think he is fast approaching. /armchair shrink

[Ostrich Lover]

I could go either way on Kaberle. I have always been a fan and found his defensive skills better than advertised. That being said, despite his relativley high point total, he looks to have lost a step this year. There are games he has played this year when he has been far worse than Komiserik (himself not as bad as made out to be). If the Leafs can get an asset for a depreciating one, then they should do it. That being said, if Burke wanted to trade him simply to do so he would already have done it. Kaberle is a puck moving defensemen on a team whose defenseman dont seem to join the attack much, so moving him could create a problem. However, it could also spark Phaneuf to be "the man" as far as the offensive defenseman role. So I think it could be worth the risk. For all the loyalty demanded of athletes by sentimental fans, I dont see those fans being upset when their team signs a free agent. I do not think Mr. Green would hypothetically disperage Crosby or Nash for not being loyal if they had signed with Toronto as a free agents. Although I myself would like to see Kaberle remain a leaf for life from one standpoint, I just don't think it would be worth it when all factors are considered.
.

[Ostrich Lover]

As for the him being striped of the Alternate Captaincy, I think too big a deal is being made. You cannot have a lame duck player who you activley tried to trade in a very public manner assume a leadership position when his status within the team is tentative at best. Also, considering the loyalty Burke shows everyone, I doubt very much they just ripped it off his uniform without telling him. Giving it to Komiserick -a respected veteran on a young team - is no "slap in the face", as Komi is clearly one of the leaders on this team and a bad season doesnt change that.

[Ostrich Lover]

One final thought: I think that the idea that Kaberle somehow doesnt care about winning is absolute horse crap. Would Dan Marino have been a better player if he insisted on being traded to the Cowboys?

[moe green]

@Aaron Hickey: Imagine how sweet that cupful of champaign would taste to a guy like Kaberle if he won it with the Leafs. I think it would make it a little sweeter for the fans too.

@Simmer: I do agree though that Kaberle's return would make it a little tough to develop the younger D currently on the farm. The question is do we have that much ready-to-play talent in the minors that's better now or even potentially better than Kaberle? I hope so, but I am not confident about that yet. And I think that Kaberle's influence might help develop some of that talent.

@Boo Who?: What an interesting perspective on Wilson. His interview with Vinay was quite telling. He mentioned how all-consuming the job was. How he was never really away from the rink. Is that a symptom of a perfectionist micro-manager type?

I sometimes wonder why he seems to miss the obvious when analyzing a game. He seldom really seems to address broad issues of strategy. He seems to dwell on the minutia, on execution. Is it because he's too busy micro-managing to see the forest for the trees. He also finds it easy to assign blame while never taking responsibility himself. I wonder if his support staff is good enough. I wonder if he's comfortable working with people better than he is? Interesting thoughts Boo.

[RogiG]

Yes, the Leafs should keep Kaberle for all the reasons you mention. It would be a real pity if he left without compensation or for a draft pick. Of course, you never know how draft picks might turn out. In 1998, the Leafs draft this guy Tomas from Czechoslovakia in 8th Round, 204th overall and he turned out to be quite a decent player! :-)

[Pyramid Power (via email to VM)]

Interesting stuff by Moe. Love loyalty! Not sure about Kabby's worth to us anymore though. I think many Leaf fans see Kaberle as more than what he is now, or more exactly, what he has become. BUT Tomas is such a long saga, a sad saga, a glorious saga too with so many more highs than lows. And he loves Toronto. Gawd love him for that and all the great memories of when we were competitive and respectable around the league.

But he is now 33, old and soft as butter on a nasty hot African afternoon.

Long term deal? Not a chance Moe. Not a chance imo. Ask him to waive his NTC Burkie and get what you can for him. I just can't beleaf he will want to stay here when his contract expires on Canada Day IF he has not agreed to be moved.

[Pyramid Power (via email to VM)]

I have difficulty imagining Burke wanting to extend Kaberle or give him a new deal. He tried to move him last summer before Kabby's trade window expired on August 15th. Did not happen. I think he is history before February 28th and this trade deadline. See what happens. Expect the unexpected with Burke & Co.

[Account Deleted]

At the first of the season I got teary eyed with the ovation Kaberle got.That being said I'm more in the Nik camp.We are broken into older fans,like me,longing for the good old days when "loyalty" existed and younger fans who somehow think it still does.This is the high salary,salary cap world.This is not the Gordie Howe signs for a team jacket and $400.00 world.You can not buy a player jersey without the possibility it will be in your next yard sale.And please stop comparing him to other underachieving defenseman on our club.I would have embraced the Jeff Carter deal with a passion.Great article,Moe,but face reality.

[Robert]

Well done Moe. Some of us have been saying for a long time, Kaberle is a 'LEAF' committed to the blue and white. I don't understand the lack of hockey sense in some of these writings. Kaberle is a set up man, not a shooter. Ask McCabe. He is a highly skilled skater, passer, puck mover. NO BODY ELSE ON THIS TEAM CAN DO THAT! Phaneuf and Beauchemin are supposed to be shooters, neither could put the puck in the ocean if they were standing at the end of the wharf. Tomas is not an expensive player. The fact that he is still here after ripping the 'A" from his jersey tells you more about the man's commitment than anything else. The day Wilson makes the same commitment to the blue and white has yet to come. Schenn has learned a lot from 'old uncle Tomas'.

[Robert]

I should have mentioned, two weeks ago, I said, this team has the young core defence they need to go forward. Kaberle isn't standing in the way of Aulie, Gunnarsson, Holzer, Blacker etc. You could trade Beauchemin, Komisarek, and Lebda and bring up the other youngsters, and this team wouldn't lose a step.
Phaneuf can stay for his supposed 'toughness'. Kaberle stays because his is a great mentor for these younger players. Schenn is developing into the player we have always thought he could be - if Jiggie were to go, and eventually Reimer were to come up to the 'big' team, the back end in a year, would be solid!

[Nik Culoman]

How long do you all think the Leafs will need to win a cup???? Now let's add that to Kabby's age...How old will that make him??? Do you really think the Leafs will win the cup in the next two years?? 3 years?? 4 years??

If your answer is no, no, no , and no...Than Kaberle has to go, this team is heading in a new younger direction and let's be honest Kabby won't be here if and when the Leafs win the cup. Most of you remember Kaberle at his best, now those days have passed and you all need to see him for the defensive liability that he currently is.

How many assists does this guy have this year?? I am sure those numbers have dropped as well, He isn't by all accounts the same player we saw when he started with the team. Since that concussion in the playoffs, he hasn't been the same player either.

This team has some young guys in the AHL like Lashoff, Aulie, Holzer, Blacker and so on who can if given the chance could replace Kaberle. Everyone calls for Kessel's head for being one dementional, but no one wants to admit that Kaberle is one dementional and a lot older in age....Kaberle seems comfortable in Toronto, seems accepting of the loosing, and seems content not to win a Stanley Cup in his career...

Now ask yourself, is that really the role model you want around young guys this team is trying to groom to be winners???? Being comfortable isn't good enough, in a world or professional sports where results take on more importance. The result every Leaf fan wants is to see their team win a cup, Kaberle doesn't have that drive....Because being comfortable is what keeps him here.

[Ostrich Lover]

To all the people saying trade komiserik, he has about !00% more upside that Kaberle. He will rebound and when the Leafs make the playoffs help make them super tough to play against. Also if the Leafs let Kabele walk for nothing, they actually get 4 million in cap space and minus one contract towards the 50 that are allowed. Probably better than your going to do in most trades.

[Nik Culoman]

@ Moe...Your blog states reasons for keeping Kaberle, yet one of your responses to me would have been to have traded him to Tampa for Stamkos??? Really?? Now why would someone who likes Kaberle so so much, preach that we fans should shower this guy with loyalty and praise, and yet you would also want to trade him?? Why trade this hockey God, he is the best player this organization has ever had play for them...But yet, even you would have traded him for the right deal...PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF.

Interesting fact that not many called you out on....I think that trade, like the Carter trade, would have turned this team's fortunes around. Kaberle would find himself in a new location, where he would have to compete at a higher level and not in a situation of comfort......

Being comfortable doesn't win Cups, producing and results win cups...Kaberle's better days have passed.

[The Badge]

@ Nic Culomin

you've gone on and on about Kabby's "crappy stats" and poor play this year.
try checking some facts before spouting off....

Kaberle is on pace for 56 pts - that would be his 3rd highest total of his career. he's currently 12th in points for defensemen.

last season, when the Leafs were the 2nd worst team in the league, and terrible offensively and on the PP, Kaberle was 10th in points for D-men with 49 pts.

08-09 he has 31 pts in 57 games. missed 25 due to injury, and wasn't the same for several games when he came back. Still on pace for 45 pts, and if he played a full season with no injury or playing less than 100%, he'd have had over 50 easily.

Kaberle is 32 yrs old. Given his style of play, his game will stay at the level it's at right now for another 4-5 seasons.

The current log jam on defense makes resigning Kablere AND keeping Beauchemin a bad move. But if Beauch is traded, they can still resign Kaberle and bring up Aulie. If Kaberle walks, you'll see next year just how good he was, when we have no one besides Phaneuf who can skate the puck out of the zone.

[hoofheartz]

I've had no real desire to post lately but I must say reading OL and Nik can only cause me to shake my head and realize why I don't have a desire to post. We have a saying in my line of work, "you can tell a heinz pickle, but you can't tell them much" and if this doesn't describe OL and Nik then I don't know what does. Really OL, Komisarek has 100% more upside that Kaberle? Just when I thought couldn't out do yourself with moronic posts you come up with this one. BTW, how's that guest blog coming along?

[Ken Baumgartner]

Nik, who said Kaberle was a God??????????? Only you did.......... He is a serviceable defenceman who is loyal, creates offence and is clearly a good team guy!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Leafs will not be able to replace him for what they could pay for him.................... I wonder what Schenn's year would be like with Kaberle at his side??????????????? Who wouldn't trade him for Stamkos????? I would, but in leiu of that I would also consider signing him...What people fail to realize is that when the rest of the team was better he was able to perform better because everyone was able to make plays after he dished the puck.... When the team fell off the cliff it is no wonder his game began to look diminished because the players around him cannot continue with the flow of the game that he provides. The best ever to play for the Leafs is Salming and Moe probably agrees.................. Burke believes in him otherwise he would have unloaded him for the best offer rather than what he believes is his true value. ... I thought you totalty believed in Brian Burkes plan????????? The multiple question marks and periods are really annoying...........

[Robert]

Everyone seems to have forgotten, Burke said when he signed Komesarik and Phaneuf his team would be tough to play against. And we are discussing Kaberle?

[Nik Culoman]

How am I crazy?? How many of you think that the Leafs will win a cup in the next 4 years??? How many of you would keep a player who's stats haven't improved and his defensive game is abysmal just because he states he is comfortable here?

How can anyone think that being "comfortable" is a great selling point for any player. His comfort level hasn't paralayed into any team success, nor personal success. Where do most of you think this guy is in the NHL ranks for best defensemen??

Look how many up and comming defensemen their are below Kaberle, who will over the next couple of years leave him in their dust. This guy has lost value, Kaberle on his own wouldn't get the Leafs much in a trade.

Kaberle is the last of the relics that needs to move on for his career and for the Organization. This is Sundin's situation all over again, had Burke not had to deal with Kaberle's NTC, you better believe he would have been Western Conference bound a long time ago.

[Ken Baumgartner]

They are getting tougher Robert but unfortunately it is probably too late to salvage a playoff spot this year. Komesarik is a pylon and Phaneuf is dissapointing. He is supposed to replace Kaberle's offence but isn't coming close. If that were the case maybe my thoughts on him change.

[Nik Culoman]

@ Ken, What problems did Bourque create for himself?? I haven't read or heard about one bad story about this guy. He has always been considered a class act, and a winner.

Go back and watch video of when the Avs won the cup with him, watch how excited that man was to hold the cup....Watch how excited his teamates were for him when they won, If my memory is correct wasn't he passed the cup first to skate around with it after Sakic received it??????? Weren't their Boston fans also cheering for Bourque that playoff year too?? I seem to remember some B's jerseys during the Avs run as well....

"In the 2001 playoffs, Bourque scored the game-winning goal in Game Three of the finals against the New Jersey Devils. After a 4-1 loss in Game Five which put the Avalanche in a series deficit 3-2, Bourque flew in his family and relatives for the pivotal Games Six and Seven, winning them 4-0 and 3-1, respectively. Finally, on June 9, 2001, after 22 seasons, Bourque — and the Avalanche — won the Stanley Cup, in what proved to be Bourque's final game as a player.
Bourque was the first player since the tradition was established to carry the Stanley Cup on the victory lap before the team captain and two-time Cup winner, Joe Sakic. Victorious Colorado goalie Patrick Roy, whose fourth championship had come the same day as Bourque's first, said of the Cup and his teammate, "A name was missing from that [Cup], and today it is back to normal."

This is something Kaberle will never have said about him......It only shows your limited understanding of hockey to ever compare Kaberle to Bourque..To think Bourque was somehow a sell out for moving on.

[Nik Culoman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Bourque

Still no bad press on this guy..I know I have just posted a wikipedia link...But Look at what that man did in Boston, and look at all the trophies he won, and the respect he garnered from the Boston Faithful.

"Bourque exercised his right as a player to bring the Cup back to Boston for an emotional rally in Boston's City Hall Plaza, attended by some 20,000 fans. Bourque retired shortly thereafter, having set defensive regular season records in goals (410) and assists (1169) for 1579 points. During the 2000-01 season, which would be the last for both players, Bourque passed Paul Coffey (intended to be Bourque's replacement on his former team, the Bruins) to become the all time leader in goals, assists and points for a defenceman at any senior professional level."

That is a classact, and that is how you finish a career.....For such a bad guy Kenny, it would seem he had 20,000 people who cheered for him.

[Boo Who?]

@ moe - In my experience, they tend to be workaholics, yes. It's rare to find one that combines analytical prowess and that laser beam focus with the ability to see the bigger picture and strategize effectively. (I would assume Wilson is one of these rare birds, given what he does and the success he's acheived.) If they can identify skills they need in someone they trust, and then bring themselves to - heaven forbid - delegate, then they are excellent team builders and leaders, because they keep everyone sharp by questioning everything and critiquing all the time. If they have no such support system and they're overwhelmed, they tend to short-circuit. But don't expect them to admit it, because dammit, they're perfect! :) My best guess as to what's up with him is that he's surrounded by idiots.

@ everyone who seems to want to just chuck out the 'old guys' on the team in favour of a youth corps: Kaberle is someone the grasshoppers need to learn from. He's highly skilled, he's definitely a survivor, and I know I'd be thrilled to have his brains around to pick if I were them. Besides, even if he were the type to poison the kool-aid, it takes a LOT of beat-downs to squash youthful enthusiasm. (Doesn't anyone remember being a 20-something know-it-all-genius-superhero?!) Hopefully the rest of the guys develop a synergy like the one that exists on my beloved MacKulSki line...that is a prime example of thoughtful and evolving play. It isn't born in a vacuum.

[Ken Baumgartner]

Bourque is one of the top 4 or 5 defenceman of all time, but because he accepted far less than market value, the Bruins were unable to win it all because no-one that could take them over the top wanted to play for less than they were worth so they signed elsewhere.

[Ostrich Lover]

Hoof Head, youre tendancy to call everyone who disagrees with you names is quite sad. Listen up good sir, perhaps you can learn somthing: Thomas Kaberle has zero upside. He is pretty good and I like him. He will not improve. He is 32 and his game is declining and will only continue to do so without the use of the Roger Clemons Workout Video and Diatary Supplement Plan. Komiserik is 27, he is coming off a devastating injury and is playing through the worst stretch of his career. However, he has been in the past a good player and he is entering what should be his prime. Sure, he may never find his game -although he has improved latley - but that doesnt change the fact that has a good chance to return to his former all star self. Now, if you suck and have a chance to improve, that is called UPSIDE. If you are good, but declining, that means you HAVE NO UPSIDE. Therefore, by basis of logical analysis, Komiserick has 100% more upside than Kaberle. I expect an apology, or in the least, a rebuttle using logic.

[moe green]

Ostritch, by your logic Gretzky in his prime had no "upside"

[Nik Culoman]

@ Ken "Bourque was the first player since the tradition was established to carry the Stanley Cup on the victory lap before the team captain and two-time Cup winner, Joe Sakic. Victorious Colorado goalie Patrick Roy, whose fourth championship had come the same day as Bourque's first, said of the Cup and his teammate, "A name was missing from that [Cup], and today it is back to normal."

Once again, there is a quote from a fellow NHLER there...You have heard from of him...Patrick Roy......Now tell me how poorly other players thought of him.

[Simmer]

Ostrich, Kaberle is a veteran with excellent puck moving skills that can rub off on his teammates. That is the upside of keeping him around.

[Ostrich Lover]

Moe, that is exactly my point. Once Gretzkey hit 212, he had no upside. Doesnt mean he was finished, but by DEFINITION once you hit your peak, you no longer have any upside. And there are positives and an upside to keeping Kaberle, but that doesnt mean that Kabs, as a player, has any upside. Is there seriously someone here who thinks his best season is in the future?

[hoofheartz]

Sadly Moe, when OL posts there is no logic.

[Simmer]

I believe the word Ostrich is looking for isn't upside, its "potential".

[Ostrich Lover]

Ok for the love of god, HOOF HEARTZ here is your chance to make your internet dreams come true: if you can logically explain how my post regarding kaberle and komiserik lacks logic, I will leave this board forever. You can be rid of me, all you have to do is justify your condescending tone, which you cannot do, because there is actually no refuting the logic behind my post which i spelled out so even a gradeschool student could understand. It is not even a matter of opinion, Kaberle is 32 and Komi is 27.

Again: Komiserik has a chance to improve, and in all likley hood will. kaberle cannot possibly improve at his age. Therefore Komiserick has more upside -or for Simmer, Unfullfilled Potential- then Kaberle does.

If you can show me how this is in anyway illogical, I , as a man of my word, and a man of honour, will retire forever. If you are any kind of man, you will drop the condescending attitude -which you have not in any way earned- and either confront me logically or apologize for being an ass.

The ball is in your court my friend, time to stop insulting people and prove you even know what the work "logic" means.

[Boo Who?]

If the basis for assuming Kaberle has no upside is his age, then one need look no further than someone like a Chris Pronger. Pronger is, at the advanced and decrepit age of 36, still considered a top D-Man, is he not? Physical, proven winner, we'd be lucky to have him, yes? Let's look at his stats for the last 3 years. His points production has gone up. He also appears to like hitting more, and blocking shots a bit more. Thank goodness they allowed him to play past his expiry date, because he started this 'upswing' when he was about 33 years old.

Looking at Kaberle over the last 3 years - when he's been able to play a full season, he consistently manages around 50 points. Shoots about the same, hits about the same, and blocks about the same amount of shots. The man is dazzingly consistent. He is a known quantity. Komisarek? Not a points guy, but his productivity has actually gone down. Shoots even less than Kaberle. What he does do is hit and block shots. Phaneuf seems to like it all - shooting, hitting, blocking. But his point production is inconsistent. Perhaps due to youth or the lines he's been playing on? Beauchemin looks to be somewhere between the two extremes. What does this say to me? It doesn't say that Kaberle is fading. What it does say is that he's using his play making skills, leaving the more physical, or offensive-minded D-men to try and do their thing. A bit of savvy we can definitely use, given the way our offense has struggled for most of the season.

[Boo Who?]

(And before someone points it out - my comments above assume an 82 game season, factoring up where necessary.)

[moe green]

I understand the debate as to whether to keep Kaberle or not and it is, for the most part, a valid one. Kaberle is likely on the downside of his career. But downside by definition means he could have quite a few productive years left.

I wont argue that while his physical presence has diminished, he shows no signs of losing what made him a great NHL-er throughout his career - his on-ice awareness and pin-point passing ability. His physicality? That is a different story.

While Kaberle is on the way down, he likely has a ways to go and no current Leaf D-man either from the current roster or in the minors seems to have the skill-set to replace his now or in the near future.

With regard to his presence locking out a budding young star, it seem foolhardy to replace an existing asset with one who can't perform at at least his current level. When the time comes, we will know it. As long as any contract extension is a manageable one, I see no good reason to cut his career with the Leafs short.

Finally, I would add that in my opinion Kaberle is currently playing beneath his potential because he doesn't think he's part of the teams' plans moving forward. He may be right and while it could be argued that 4.25 million should make any player give his all, maybe a guy like Kaberle needs something more to perform at his best. Maybe money isn't the only thing that motivates him. I like that in a player.

Of course all of this is just conjecture and I could be wrong. What I am suggesting is to maximize the value of an elite talent like Kaberle's and demonstrate some loyalty in the process. Maybe it will make signing someone like Schenn, MacArthur or a free-agent a little less costly. Who can say. But at he very least we'd have his considerable services for a couple more seasons. I can't see that being a bad thing.

[moe green]

I don't think anyone wants you to retire Ostritch. Even though you appear to be on the downside of your career. Kidding.

You can never have enough dissenting opinion as far as I'm concerned. It's what makes commenting on these boards fun and challenging.

One thing I think we can all agree upon is that if we can just nab an elite centre and maybe a tough-as-nails power forward through trades or free-agency, this is going to be a good team moving forward. I smell a parade in the not too distant future. I just hope it's not one riding Brian Burke out of town on a rail. I think that would be a very different smell.

[Ostrich Lover]

Hey thanks Moe. I am all for dissenting opinion. I do not appreciate someone who does nothing but insult other users calling my opinion illogical when it is not only logical, but irrifutable.

As for Pronger, he has been the best defenman or close to it for fifteen years. If his he has improved with age it is because he might not be human.

[Boo Who?]

@ Ostrich - LOL, then we've gone from a discussion about 'logic' to one about 'magic'. I won't wade into waters that deep!

[j-rock]

I love Kaberle. He had me by pretty much the end of his first game in a Leafs uniform. In addition to his puck-moving ability, he does seem like a genuinely nice young man. That said, I don't think that the Leafs should re-sign him. I worry that he's played on too many bad Leafs teams by this point, and would like to see him go to a team where he might have a chance of making the playoffs again before he retires.

Also, I think the Leafs have too many "nice" guys. I don't think that building a team of thugs is the way back to respectability for Toronto, but they need more guys with that fire in their bellies. The guys who will call themselves, and their team out, when things aren't going well. Guys who go home at night after a loss, and can't sleep. This is a young and relatively inexperienced team, and despite my personal feelings for him, Kaberle remains one of, if not the last remaining link to a period we'd probably all like to forget. If he were willing to take the "hometown" discount, then of course it would hardly be the end of the world to keep him around, but I just feel deep down that his time in the blue and white is coming to a close. I would love to see him win a Cup somewhere else. OF COURSE I'd much rather prefer to see him win one in Toronto, but he simply doesn't have that kind of time left. Sometimes I fear that the kids currently playing Pee-Wee don't have that kind of time left.

[Henry]

This is why you and I are minorities today Moe: "class, honour, substance, loyalty, longevity, family, heart...". Our culture has changed. Radically. For the worse. Young people have never known it to be different, and don't know any better. But yes, once upon a time hockey teams were like a family. And like a family, you couldn't just quit and walk away. Detroit may be the ONLY team left in the NHL who have made integrity and loyalty a part of their corporate culture. Funny, looks like winning is a big part of the Red Wings culture too.

[Arthur Bailey]

I'd only re-sign Kaberle for LESS than he is making now. If he won't take less, with the understanding that the savings would be used to acquire better talent for the team, then I don't think he is all that loyal... but rather complacent.

But I'd work out a verbal deal with him. Trade him for picks/prospects, and resign him in the summer.

[peduval]

IF Karbs is traded that team will win LORD STANLEY and leaf fans will again chase a great human from their midst.

[peduval]

Remember Ray Bourgue