Guest Post: How to date a Leafs Fan
Five Lessons For Loving Those Who Love The Blue and White
BY M. WILLIAMS
One of the most common criticisms leveled against Leafs fans is that we are content with mediocrity. I smile whenever I hear this. The people espousing this opinion clearly have never tried dating a Leafs fan.
It's a big world out there. And there are a lot of us in it. For those of you without much firsthand experience with the unique and otherworldly pleasures of dating a member of Leafs Nation, I've written this handy guide to winning our hearts.
LESSON NO. 1: WE PREFER IF YOU LISTEN
We Leaf fans are what you might call... "high maintenance." No, no, a better word would be... "communicative."
One of the most enduring and definitive relationships of our lives – our love/hate affair with the Blue and White – is built upon an endless stream of dialogue, a constant feedback loop of information, speculation and justification.
So it should really come as no surprise that we're actually sick to death of "talkers." We want someone who will "listen" when we say: "Probably better to make the reservation for 11 p.m. Eastern just in case the game goes into overtime."
Or: "I'd love to visit your grandmother for tea on Saturday! Does she have a laptop with high-speed Internet access? No? Then how's the 3G signal in her area?"
Also, please don't ever make the mistake of revealing your lack of interest in our team by saying things like, "Who's that guy on defence that you hate again? Webster?" Because we will abruptly leave both you and grandma sitting there, teacups in hand.
LESSON NO. 2: BE PROACTIVE AND ATTENTIVE
Don't bother asking us out if you're going to turn around and make us decide where to go, what time to meet and what to order from the menu.
We'll do it, of course. We're used to making tough decisions like who to trade and who to send down and whether or not it's worthwhile to bury our fist in your jaw after you suggest we "share" a dish and then ask for a doggie bag because you're a cheap bastard who thinks we don't notice you mentally tabulating how many pieces of shrimp we've scooped onto our plate while you blather on about how you gave up practising law to take up bee-keeping and you like hiking into the mountains to make casts of animal footprints that you sell to souvenir shops for a tidy little profit.
Instead of trying to dazzle us with your big words and big dreams, we'd much prefer to know that you'd been paying attention when we said: "I'm not as familiar with this area as you are. But I really like Thai food. Why don't you suggest a place and I'll meet you there for lunch?"
Had you replied: "Sure. ________ has great Thai food. How about 12:30?" and kept all of your bee-keeping and paw prints to yourself, we might not have started laughing when you suddenly sat back in your chair and declared, "It would be crazy for us not to see each other again."
No. I'm afraid we Leafs fans already know the definition of insanity by heart.
LESSON NO. 3: MOCK AT YOUR OWN PERIL
Too often, Leafs fans are accused of talking simply to hear ourselves speak. More "worthy" topics of conversation are ignored or people say we miss their point entirely.
This is untrue.
Nary a word escapes our lips that has not been very carefully considered. And to cope with the barrage of warring input we receive on a daily basis, we become naturally adept at filtering through "noise" – especially the mindless criticism of our team.
We're discerning, we're very well informed and we're not afraid to disagree.
So when you say things like, a) "I'm currently self-employed" or, b) "Leafs suck," be prepared for some pointed questions to come zinging your way.
Because we'll instantly know that what you're really saying is:
a) "I live in a smelly basement and probably don't shower every day.”
And,
b) "I'm a moron that knows absolutely nothing about hockey. If you ask me about anything to do with the Leafs' current season, I'm going to respond with a lame joke about "planning a parade" or how long it's been since "the Laffs won the Cup" and then glare at you over the top of my seventh pint of beer after you express surprise that I know how to count past 40."
LESSON NO. 4: DO NOT ASK US OUT ON A GAME NIGHT
Before buying tickets to that new art exhibit or reserving a table at that new hot spot, please check the Leafs schedule. Please.
If you see a game on the date you have in mind, consider us busy.
You may also want to inquire about the status of our favourite players, who we're playing that day and where the Leafs are in the standings before deciding upon an activity.
If we mention the words "lemon squares" at any point during your call... we're staying in. Wait a few days before calling again.
LESSON NO. 5: WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR YOUR PROBLEMS RIGHT NOW
For too long we Leaf fans have suffered at the hands of those who lack the strength and courage to face down their demons and battle through adversity.
We are no strangers to heartache and grief. So we really won't feel the least bit bad about rolling our eyes when you complain about things like how your outdoor yoga bootcamp was rained out or how they got your order wrong at Starbucks or how the Canucks lost one lousy game.
Shut up.
We have no tears left to shed over your trivial ass-hattery. We're too busy thinking about what to do with our present goalie situation, where to find a decent power forward that's also a UFA and how we'd like to drive you out into the middle of an Ontario winter with only your non-fat, extra-hot latte and Canucks jersey for protection, and watch your ever-diminishing figure flail helplessly around in our rearview mirror before it finally disappears into a field of snowy white.
Beneath a bright, blue sky.
M. Williams (aka Boo Who?) lives in Vancouver, BC, in self-imposed exile from her beloved Leafs Nation. When not huddled in front of an Internet game feed, she enjoys long walks in the rain, surreptitiously checking her phone for scores and various nerdy activities.
Have an idea for a guest post? Email: vmenon@thestar.ca
MAIN PHOTO: HARRISON SMITH/TORONTO STAR
@Boo Who?
.
Just passing through but have to interrupt my break from posting to thank you for an excellent post. Humorous AND informative. (Happy grin)
.
And on the technical side, well written as well.
.
Great job, kiddo. (The "kiddo" is with respect and affection from an "olddo.")
Posted by: Sensi-Bill | 02/21/2011 at 02:40 AM
@Ostrich Lover
(From the previous thread.)
.
"Hoofheartz, you should write one too! Then Vinnay can say he caters to all demographics by letting someone who is mentally handicapped participate."
.
I am not breaking my temporary silence (not posting at the moment) to defend hoofheartz. My Maritime friend is quite capable of doing that on his own.
.
I AM speaking up because I just couldn't pass by without registering my disgust with this comment. In just a few words you manage to insult the mentally handicapped (or "challenged" as some prefer), hoofheartz and anyone who stumbles upon such a classless comment.
.
There's nothing wrong with the mentally handicapped and they should always be included wherever possible. What IS wrong is your obvious intent to use the phrase "mentally handicapped" as a childish and mean-spirited DEROGATORY term.
.
You've already convinced me that despite your claims to the contrary, you have neither the literary skills or insight --- or even simple intelligence --- to be a writer in the past, present and future. (If you are a writer, or would-be writer, identify the intentional grammatical error in that last sentence.)
.
You have now also convinced me that you don't have the maturity or morals to be an adult as well.
.
And I'm actually glad Vinnay let this comment through. It merely confirms your somewhat sleazy side that turns off so many of us here.
.
Hopefully you are not such a sad case that you can't feel at least a little shame in being poor taste personified.
.
Do I sound self-righteous? You're damn right I do. I'd rather have some standards, and be willing to speak out, than even accidentally seem to condone you're snivelling, snide insults through my silence.
.
*grabbing my blood pressure medicine and heading back into hibernation*
Posted by: Sensi-Bill | 02/21/2011 at 03:08 AM
For the record, high blood pressure is actually one of the few things I DON'T suffer from.
.
So in my last post, me reaching for the fictitious high blood pressure medicine was simply a symbolic gesture.
.
But he DID p*ss me off!
.
I'm calmer now. (g)
Posted by: Sensi-Bill | 02/21/2011 at 03:12 AM
There is no better way to start the day than with a good cup of coffee and a properly served up dish of ALF B. Excellent job Boo.
Posted by: hoofheartz | 02/21/2011 at 06:31 AM
Wonderful! - thanks for an early morning laugh!!! Go, Leafs, Go!
Posted by: MacGregrrrr the Terrier-ist | 02/21/2011 at 06:40 AM
Great post,Boo-Berry.I printed off a copy for my wife to read and judging from the many nods of agreement,your post works on a unisex level also.
Posted by: TimB | 02/21/2011 at 07:28 AM
Great guest post! Very funny and very true.
It's not easy loving a Leafs fan, but it certainly is interesting.
I married a Leafs fan (sounds like a movie title, doesn't it?) and I must say one of the hardest things about sharing my life with a lover of the blue-and-white (besides the fact that he is leaving out the primordial *red*), is the bipolarity of it all. He loves his team, yet showers them with invective every night, and I can't even write on this blog the nicknames he has for some players, so obscene are they.
He loves them, he hates them, he needs them, they're useless. That's the Leafs mood-o-tron on your usual Saturday night.
See for me, the love I have for my Habs is constant and unchanging. When they play horribly (Heritage Classic, anyone?), I feel the way a mother feels when her teenager has done a dumb thing: loving but disappointed, eager to help in a magnanimous and wise, unconditionally supportive way, a touch angry, perhaps (slipping out of playoff spot you've held all season, anyone?), yet more sorrowful than p**ed off.
Loving a Leafs fan means understanding that pure flaming hatred can be part of an insane devotion, that ridiculing your own team by scattering waffles is to the Leafs fan a ritual of passion the way scattering rose petals is a prelude to love for the rest of us. So if my loving hubby some day tells me I cook/drive/sort laundry like a "useless piece of *&^%$ **&^^% that belongs in the (*&^% AHL" and that I'm "too &*^%$ selfish to pass the ^%$#@" salt, I'll know they're really words of love!
Posted by: Princess Mononoke | 02/21/2011 at 07:30 AM
Good grief! Such cleverness should be rewarded. How about assistant to one B. Burke? This woman understands completely the ambiance in which the true Leaf fan exists. Some of this could rub off on Burke and Wilson. Better yet, a place on the board of MLSE. Yeah man (ooops woman) think of the influence someone interested in furthering the cause of the Toronto Maple Leafs could have sitting in that group of smirking curmudgeons. Go for it Girl! You dah man!
Posted by: Robert | 02/21/2011 at 08:03 AM
Great stuff Boo! My wife definitely still has to learn lesson 4. The jpg of that schedule will come in very handy, thank you!
I feel your pain about living in Vancouver (although it really is a beautiful city!). Leaf fans must be cursed for having to tolerate canuck fans, because one fan has made all the way here to metro-detroit (and we've been acquainted now for a few years--what are the chances, eh?) just to torment me!
Posted by: gettingcozywithsarkozy | 02/21/2011 at 08:55 AM
@ Sensi-Bill
If we were mean and immature, we could point out that VM is already catering to all demographics by allowing someone with narcissistic personality disorder to participate.
Luckily, we're neither.
Posted by: Princess Mononoke | 02/21/2011 at 09:33 AM
Ah Princess, you said it (with regard to your second post).
On your first post: maybe it's a gender issue, because I'm a Habs fan but I was hurling all sorts of insults at the TV last night. Many of them were directed at the forwards who seemed determined to play as if they were squiring Tessa Virtue around the ice rather than facing off against Jarome Iginla.
Posted by: Geoff Read | 02/21/2011 at 09:53 AM
Boo, great guest column, too, too, funny. But, at the same time quite typical of the grief we leaf fans feel in Western Canada. Since I am from Edmonton, it is a lot easier with how terrible the Oilers are. Princess, your hubby is not the only one that swears and calls those glorious leaf bastards names that would have gotten my mouth washed out with soap as a youngster. But, at the same time, a few hours later I would defend the leafs to the point of fisti-cuffs. Thankfully, I can be quite intimidating and the only thing that gets hurt are feelings. So now I prefer to view all leaf games on my own. Proud to say I have not missed a leaf game for 12 years since Sattelllite TV and the great Centre Ice that never blacks out games in the Edmonton area. I do believe, with all sincerity, that leaf fans are the most loyal and special people out there. We bleed blue! We are leaf nation!
Posted by: Michael C. Nemirsky | 02/21/2011 at 10:05 AM
Unique. An hilarious post that only you could deliver.
Boo-berry. If only I had been born 20 years later I'm sure we could have gotten a little place down at the waterfront and bought seasons-tickets together.
Funny as always and true. The image of the Nucks' fan with his extra-hot, non-fat latte flailing and fading to nothingness in the rear-view will stay with me always.
VM Replies: I'm still pulling for you crazy kids.
Posted by: moe green | 02/21/2011 at 10:11 AM
Boo berry, that was such a great post!
Can I point out that these lessons are not just for potential dates, but for friends of Leaf fans too. Friends - please take note. I had to send it to all my friends and post a link on my facebook so friends and potential dates finally get it. Lesson #4 is especially important.
Can I add Lesson #6? Going to the Bar on Gameday
If we go out to a bar to watch the game, take note that "watch the game" is not code for talking about your boss, relationships, dog problems and the like. I don't just want to look at the TV when the voices get loud, I plan to stare and listen intently, occasionally looking down to check the beer volume in my pint glass. I might (probably) also scream, jump, stand, curse, talk to the tv and bury my face in my hands - just deal with it and don't ask what's wrong.
Posted by: Alecia | 02/21/2011 at 10:37 AM
LOL omg i loved this, it felt like i was reading my own biography :) This was very well written, and hilarious :) and best of all i feel your pain :) Currently living in indiana with LOTS of leafs haters out here (most recently i had an encounter with a blackhawks fan who decided to trash on the leafs... i sure told him where to shove it :)
Nyway keep up the good work and thx for the post
Posted by: Momo | 02/21/2011 at 10:41 AM
Happy Leaf Family Day (Ontario holiday)
...and Happy February 21, Boo ( BC Leaf fan)...great post.
I "listened up". Besides always checking the Leaf schedule I now note the games of the teams within a few points of the Buds.
Tonight, hold the Panthers down, Islanders ! And get yourself tired for tomorrow night.
Posted by: leafland'r | 02/21/2011 at 10:54 AM
Thoroughly enjoyable guest post.
@Sensibill - YAWN!
Posted by: Ostrich_Lover | 02/21/2011 at 11:05 AM
OOPS ( re: me @ 10:54am)
Checking the NHL schedule once again I correct the Panther/Islander "tonight" game to this afternoon.
Posted by: leafland'r | 02/21/2011 at 11:14 AM
Great Post, Boo, Very Funny
Agree with Nemirsky,
but in my case it would be more like 40 years.
Posted by: shuda_gonetobed | 02/21/2011 at 11:17 AM
To all MALE leaf fans, the Toronto Sun Sunshine girl is a must see! Not quite sure how many fantasies get checked off my list, but nonetheless, she is quite the sight to behold!
Posted by: Michael C. Nemirsky | 02/21/2011 at 11:22 AM
This just in, Lebda hurt in practice.
A part of me feels really bad for him but another part of me is taking a huge sigh of relief. Is that horrible? Am I horrible!?
Now that Mr. Minus won't likely play tomorrow, I wonder who will take his place.
Posted by: Alecia | 02/21/2011 at 11:55 AM
You are horrible Alecia. And I am horrible as well. All of Leafs nation is... horrible! Who's the call-up? Hazah!
Posted by: moe green | 02/21/2011 at 12:10 PM
@Michael C. Nemirsky: In this day and age, surely not JUST the men you sexist bastard.
Posted by: moe green | 02/21/2011 at 12:16 PM
Great post Boo Who!
I take endless "abuse" about being a Leafs fan, but my guy is a Flames fan and more importantly a Gary Roberts fan, so he's off the hook. And despite the teasing, he makes me laugh so hard that I can't even summon any sort of righteous indignation over the inglorious Leafs bastards. Yes, yes, 43 years and counting, but such is our lot in life here in the Leafs Nation.
Posted by: Katherine | 02/21/2011 at 12:21 PM
@Alecia & moe green. I've been really trying to convince myself Lebda has been a little less terrible????
Posted by: TimB | 02/21/2011 at 12:23 PM
Happy Family day Ontari-ari-ari-o! Happy ALF B day Rest of World!
@ Princess - I think this brand of abusive affection is indeed a characteristic of all Leafs fans. The surest way to know I've got a soft spot for you is when I take to insulting you a regular basis.
@ Robert - VM needs to forward your recommendation on to the man himself. I can be on the next plane. And heck, I'll work for free.
@ Gettingcozywithsarkozy (I've always loved your username btw) - Nucks fans are worse than Red Wings fans? I can see that, actually. :)
I'd just like to point out that swearing and screaming at the TV is not the exclusive domain of male Leafs fans. I have a cushion on my couch that I regularly employ to muffle some of my more colourful reactions to games from my neighbors.
Awwww, moe-caccino. I'd be lucky to have you. Lucky to have any of you magnificent Leaf bastards! :0)
@ Alecia - when I'm back in Toronto, we need to hang out!! I don't really have any gfs that are interested in watching hockey with me, so I've trained myself to be a good 'date' and focus on them and not the game. (Note to guys: this is a really really good idea. Girls will get annoyed when your gaze drifts over their shoulder to the big screen even if they're not romantically involved with you. I speak from experience. And for God's sake, don't check your phone while they're talking!)
But when they get up to go the bathroom - it's game time.
Momo - surrounded by Hawks fans?! You fight the good fight, sister. :)
Thank you all for the kind words, it's so nice to finally feel accepted and understood.
Posted by: Boo Who? | 02/21/2011 at 12:27 PM
Maybe he'll find his footing TimB, but so far he hasn't. You can see that he's trying. He did get a shot on net where he actually waited for traffic to develop. Still, I'd prefer a call-up to replace he who shall no longer be named.
Posted by: moe green | 02/21/2011 at 12:33 PM
shuda_gonetobed. For my money,the best screen name yet.
Posted by: TimB | 02/21/2011 at 12:37 PM
@ Alecia - Webster got hurt? Aw man, this is why I don't like publicly hating on people, because bad stuff usually happens to them not long afterward and then I feel guilty. I saw a great video of him taken right after he won the Cup with the Wings not long ago (although seeing him hoist the Cup was a rather stomach-turning experience). Apparently he's quite the beloved character in Detroit for his frat-boy antics.
Posted by: Boo Who? | 02/21/2011 at 12:38 PM
Well done Boo! I think you need to make an exception on Lesson # 4. What if your beau wants to take you to a Leafs game, or simply wants to watch the game on TV? Nothing more romantic than seeing two lovebirds in Leafs jerseys jump for joy and embrace when they score in overtime!
Cheers!
Posted by: We BeLeaf | 02/21/2011 at 12:45 PM
One last comment before I make work a rare priority. I watched that shootout goal by Colborne and again and wow. Not only did he make a sweet deke to the backhand, but he faked the backhand shot before switching to the forehand to score. That was a big league move that few would be able to accomplish. Smart play. Great hands.
Posted by: moe green | 02/21/2011 at 12:59 PM
Right on Ms Boo Who, you summed it up. I have a strong suspicion though that women make more ardent fans than men. I'll never forget the first time I witnessed my wife watch a rugby game, sorry, match. There were times she uttered torrents of abuse that broke like a tsunami. I had to check several times if I was still sitting next to this polite, friendly, somewhat demure person I had thought to humor by accompanying her to a rugby match. Unfortunately. she never took to hockey since she broke her ankle the first time she got on skates. So, to her it remains: "Go Springboks go!"
Posted by: pinot grigio | 02/21/2011 at 01:01 PM
@ Boo: Canuck fans are worse than wing fans in the sense that they are a little (emphasis on "little") more knowledgable on the topic of hockey, and thus, somewhat more able to make logical arguements on the subject. Most wing "fans" struggle to name more than 5 players on the current roster.
Posted by: gettingcozywithsarkozy | 02/21/2011 at 01:28 PM
Great guest post, Boo Who?
As a fellow Leaf addict stuck out here on the left coast, there's one point I would ammend, though. Since we're blessed with 4 o'clock starts, Lesson 4 could be amended to allow for a date after the game. Depending on the outcome of the game, my mood might be a bit of a crapshoot, but that's a risk they'll just have to take, right?
Posted by: A Leaf Fan in Lotusland | 02/21/2011 at 01:34 PM
Coffee and Leafs Fan blog when I wake up. <3
Posted by: Tom | 02/21/2011 at 01:41 PM
I second the notion Tom. Sipping a coffee from my Leafs mug no less. I should ask my gf to write a guest spot on what it is like to be a non-Leafs fan dating a die-hard Leafs fan! The 4 pm starts out here have actually saved me because we can still go out on a Saturday night. My gf and I met about 4.5 years ago at the house she shared with a few guys I took classes with during my MBA. They invited me over to watch the Leafs-Flames game. At the time she cheered for anyone except the Leafs and ripped on me for wearing my Sundin jersey the whole night. Looking back, I think it was a classic case of throw sand in the sandbox at the person you like (although she won't admit to it). Sundin scored a short-handed, OT game-winner that also happened to be his 500th goal against the Flames and 4.5 years later, I think I am finally getting through to her. She cheers for the Leafs now (well, sort of out of pity I think and to ensure my mental health remains in tact) so it is possible to convert for those of you considering "must be a Leafs fan" as a deal breaker in a relationship! Anyway, the main point I wanted to make was this post was really funny and nicely written too.
Posted by: TG77 | 02/21/2011 at 01:58 PM
@ We BeLeaf - not too many guys willing to snuggle up to a Leafs jersey around here unfortunately. But it's definitely a dream of mine. :)
@ pinot grigio - I long for the day a man will look upon my enraged and swearing face with adoration instead of ridicule.
@ Leaf fan in Lotusland - my challenge is that Vancouverites are so darn sporty they'll try to drag you up and down mountains or into the park during the afternoons. I do love having my evenings free to console or distract myself if things have taken an ugly turn though.
Posted by: Boo Who? | 02/21/2011 at 02:06 PM
@ TG77 - Glad your gf has admitted she has a problem and is finally accepting help. ;)
Posted by: Boo Who? | 02/21/2011 at 02:27 PM
Ha! Love it. We are pretty difficult to date ;)
Here is someone breaking up with the leafs - a couple years old, but the sentiment still stands!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcEink9PE9k
Posted by: Alicia | 02/21/2011 at 02:48 PM
Now, now, interfaith relationships and marriages can work perfectly well, provided you can follow basic rules and not blaspheme against your partner's religion, prophets or gurus.
My husband knows not to speak ill of the Forum, the great dynasties, St-Patrick, the Richard brothers, Guy, Larry, Bob or Ken, and I know not to insult the greatness of Tie Domi, Vesa Toskala, Bryan Mc Cabe or Jeff Finger. Everybody wins!
;)
ha ha ha, I slay me.
On another note, I've been invited to share a link to my blog, so here is my post about hockey broadcasting--no lame jokes, I promise:
http://toomanymen.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/get-out-of-your-own-way-hockey-broadcasting-in-our-time/
Posted by: Princess Mononoke | 02/21/2011 at 02:53 PM
@Boo - yes for sure. E-mail Vinay and see if he can kindly pass on my email to you. Vinay please?
Today the Leafs held an open practice at the Matercard center which included a Q&A with Burke. Apparently, he announced he is closing in on a deal for a defenceman, hopefully to get in the game by tomorrow. Man, he has been busy.
By the way, Colborne scored 2 more goals today at the Marlies game. What a good pick up by Burke. This kid sure upstages Kadri... whose going to make the Leafs first?
VM Replies: Always happy to serve as the middleman between Leaf ladies.
Posted by: Alecia | 02/21/2011 at 03:01 PM
Great post, Boo Who. Especially since there have been a few storms around Ontario lately that really allow us to visualize that fellow disappearing in a white-out.
I have my own rules too: watching the game with us does NOT give you the right to criticize the Leafs --or comment at all --or get all snugly --just watch the d&^@#m game! And if you want to get all snugly, wait until after a win, bozo. That just should go without saying.
Posted by: enJoy hockey | 02/21/2011 at 03:34 PM
I guess Lesson #6 would be to not wear my Habs Jersey on a date! :o))
VM Replies: Another Habs fan among us? Wow.
Posted by: bubba | 02/21/2011 at 03:49 PM
"Always happy to serve as the middleman between Leaf ladies."??
VM Replies: After hitting reply, I suddenly realized that may not have been the best way to phrase it.
Posted by: TimB | 02/21/2011 at 03:56 PM
@Boo
I would never ridicule my wife for her taste in anything but that time she certainly astonished me, that's for sure! At any rate, we have been married a long time since then so there must have been something more in the air than just being astonished.
Posted by: pinot grigio | 02/21/2011 at 04:00 PM
So in the press conference today Burke says he is trying to add a d-man in time for tomorrow. Any word on who he is going after?
I looked up the Marlies site and they have Kadri playing the wing with John Mitchell and Voros on his line. Kadri has 33 pts in 33 games so still doing well but very little attention being paid to him since he was sent down. Is that a request from management to leave him alone to do his thing?
What ended up happening with the guest post about all of the leafs prospects in the pipeline? It would be an even more interesting read now given the latest additions.
VM Replies: The prospects guest post was assigned to Nik Culoman. Nik? Where is my story?
Posted by: TG77 | 02/21/2011 at 04:00 PM
@ pinot - no sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were ridiculing your wife! I was whining about the snark my screams of agony are usually met with by all the Habs/Canucks fans around here. I think your wife sounds like my kinda gal, good and feisty!
@ VM - I'm down for the email exchange. Can't promise you anything beyond that though, ha ha.
I am dying to know who this mystery d-man is and where he's coming from. I suppose someone has agreed to take that third round pick off our hands? Apparently Webster's injury was just a bruise, so he'll be back tomorrow.
Posted by: Boo Who? | 02/21/2011 at 04:36 PM
@enJoy hockey: whoa there, my friend: if I had to wait for Leafs *wins* to get my snuggles, I'm not sure I would have married a Leafs fan! I prefer to think that I'm comforting him thru all the Leafs losses ;)
Posted by: Princess Mononoke | 02/21/2011 at 05:27 PM
Ostrich, if you do plan to take a PhD one day, then you can grab my email address from Vinay. I am in the 3rd year of mine (albeit in Marketing) and there are lots of important criteria you need to take into account that a university website about the program doesn't provide so you can drop me a line sometime.
Also, if anyone is having trouble sleeping, here is what I do for a living:
http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=1905614&show=abstract
The funny thing is my sister loved my Leafs post (especially the pictures so nice work Vinay) and told me she is working her way up to reading the article I wrote for my livelihood!
Posted by: TG77 | 02/21/2011 at 05:48 PM
@TG77. Corporate social responsibility? Bar none.The funniest thing I have read on this blog to date.You do parody sites for a living?
Posted by: TimB | 02/21/2011 at 06:15 PM
Another D-man? Didn't we just dump two? And one was a pretty good one.
@TG77: Corporate social responsibility? So your Ph.D. is in creative fiction?
Posted by: moe green | 02/21/2011 at 06:30 PM
Touche! You don't think it's possible for a company to do something positive for society? I didn't have to make up the interview findings so I guess some people do. I don't really want to debate my point of view on a hockey blog but I was trying to extend an offer to give OL some feedback on the PhD life and figured I would throw out something else I wrote recently. Ah well, back to hockey.
Posted by: TG77 | 02/21/2011 at 06:40 PM
Shelly Souray and Wade Redden are available D-men at the present time.
Posted by: 80s Leafs | 02/21/2011 at 06:50 PM
@Princess: unfortunately, I don't take comforting well, but, there are lots of days with no games! Add in the wins and my allegiance to the Leafs works out OK. Enjoy your comforting --while it lasts. Actually, you have the best and worst of both worlds with your dual loyalties. Probably there's always someone who needs comforting. :-)
Posted by: enJoy hockey | 02/21/2011 at 07:04 PM
I know this isn't the place either TG77. Plus we all like you so much.
But in short, no, I do not believe corporations do anything positive for society that doesn't positively impact their bottom line either directly or indirectly. Their is no room for social responsibility in the boardrooms of corporate America - only profit. That is why we have such a disturbingly skewed society. It wouldn't be so bad if corporations didn't have near total control of the political process. I think "corporate social responsibility" is the ultimate oxymoron.
Where is a good place to debate this sort of thing?
Posted by: moe green | 02/21/2011 at 07:31 PM
@ Moe - as opposed to non-creative fiction? I have taken this humbling piece of feedback as my cue to only post music videos by the Who (and others). I am totally open to feedback and honest criticism and I had some interview participants who felt the same way and think of it is a marketing tool and nothing more so your point is taken (and made by lots of critics). I was interested in whether ethics and social responsibility mattered in the eyes of consumers during the recession, that was the basic inspiration behind it. Anyway, there are rumblings about the Leafs being interested in Bogosian out of Atlanta.
Posted by: TG77 | 02/21/2011 at 07:32 PM
Well Moe, just when i was going to invite you to my thesis defense! Kidding. Grab my email address if you want from Vinay.
Posted by: TG77 | 02/21/2011 at 07:43 PM
@TG77: A company that has an owner can do something positive, it's up to the owner. A corporation that has to answer to shareholders cannot. Unless the shareholder don't mind lower profits. Why would a shareholder want lower profits?
That's one reason that MLSE has allowed the Leafs to be so bad for so long. Of course Harold Ballard didn't do so well either. You can have a good or a bad owner, but you can only have a bad corporation. Bad from the non-stockholder's perspective that is.
If it wasn't for government intervention, we'd still have seven year old children mining coal.
Posted by: moe green | 02/21/2011 at 07:44 PM
Very well done. So funny because it's all so true....
Posted by: Michelle | 02/21/2011 at 07:52 PM
One more thing Moe - you pulled a classic move by widening the debate. I asked whether companies can do anything positive for society. You answered yes to my original question but qualified it by inferring the company's motives behind it (profits). So I guess I was right, companies can do something good for society :) They just won't get any credit from you for doing it because you attribute greed to it but not every thinks it's bad if a company makes money based on donating to charities or having sales associated with a cause etc because it beats doing nothing. *flashes applause button and bows*
Posted by: TG77 | 02/21/2011 at 08:00 PM
@TG77: Intersting re: Bogosian. But what would we have to give up to get him? Two firsts? More?
Of course ethics and social responsibility would matter to consumers before, during and after a recession. Do they matter as much as finding a job or eating? Not likely. Two things: One, ethics and social responsibility cannot exist within the current corporate framework period. And two: Who cares what uninformed consumers (what an offensive term "consumers" is) say they want in an unscientific survey anyway? Only a corporation would pretend to care about that.
I hope you don't take too much offence but you've really touched a nerve with me. I believe that the corporate control of the political system is destroying the very fabric of our society. IMO you should leave your chosen path and do something constructive with your life like hockey blogging. You're good at it and you wouldn't be participating any further in the corruption of our society.
Posted by: moe green | 02/21/2011 at 08:01 PM
Bogosian out of Atlanta but didn't I also hear somewhere that Pietroangelo could be had. The few times I've seen that kid he has impressed the hell out of me.
Posted by: hoofheartz | 02/21/2011 at 08:11 PM
Oh heyyyyyyy, two nerd boys, throwing down?? I'll take a front row seat to that. Polishing their glasses and straightening their ties, pocket protectors heaving...sigh. Hot. Let me know where you guys end up. ;)
Posted by: Boo Who? | 02/21/2011 at 08:26 PM
May I ask, as a bumbling, high school drop out, what corporate responsibilities to society as a whole, have to do with the Leaf blog? The discussion, about job loss, bailouts, and performance bonuses is surely NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS SITE!
I would rather talk about mother nature. Spring is just around the corner, and our blue and white, well, - dang!
But, the corporate well fare bums will stagger on.
Posted by: Robert | 02/21/2011 at 08:30 PM
There sure has been a lot of nonsense about trades being difficult under the cap system. I could never understand that. Yeah, difficult if you can't do basic math. I'd hire a mathematician. Or hey, an accountant. These must be some stupid people if they can't make trades because of cap restrictions. It looks like some are finally smartening up.
Posted by: moe green | 02/21/2011 at 08:43 PM
@TG77, corporations certainly want consumers to believe in the possibility of their being ethically and socially relevant...witness all their "mission statements" and "philosophies" and so forth...you can't even buy a fruit juice of a jar of cream without having to hear about the company's sense of purpose, mission on earth and ethical dealings. Sometimes I think we should all post our personal mission statements and philosophies to those we serve ("My mission: to offer the most uncompromising, high-quality grammatical fascism, ethically sourced sassy repartee and fair-trade cranky asides to the wonderful students who have chosen me as a their teacher"....)
In other news: isn't Souray going to NJ?
Posted by: Princess Mononoke | 02/21/2011 at 08:49 PM
Sorry everyone (mostly Robert or for those who found this thread annoying but didn't bother saying so) and I didn't mean to take away the focus from a great post by my fellow Leaf supporter out west. I was actually interested in hearing about people's response when MLSE does stuff in the community because it always struck me as they tend to get hammered in the press when they do the rink refurbishing etc. Anyway, I will leave it alone.
@ Moe - yeah I think Bogosian will be out of the ballpark for the Leafs. Btw, please email so I can tell you more about the work I am doing and I may just get back in your 'good' books.
I didn't hear about Souray to NJ, don't they have major cap issues? Or are they sending a roster player back?
Posted by: TG77 | 02/21/2011 at 10:04 PM
I did not find the thread half as annoying as some posts that actually pretend to be about the Leafs (exclusively from one source). In fact, it is quite an interesting subject and I was wondering whether this was a private fight or if we could all join in. I have seen a lot of good done by companies funding very worthwhile projects. The Johns Hopkins School of Public Health gets tens of millions every year for such projects and - to be quite honest - I don't care what motivates the donors. Maybe they do it for corporate public relations, maybe the CEO wants to go to heaven, it is of no interest to me. After all, if my neighbor helps me out with some job around the house I don't know either why he does so. I still appreciate his help. But we should probably discuss this in a different blog....
On a different note - someone suggested Mother Nature as a more appropriate topic - the first Snow-bells are now in bloom in our front yard. Crocuses to follow shortly and the first daffodils will be here within two weeks.
Posted by: pinot grigio | 02/21/2011 at 11:31 PM
@TG77 how about a corporate blog on MSLE? I think it would be of great interest because there sure is a hell of a lot going on there. One could even study the benefits to society as a whole using the dichotomy of the Leaf players out in the community and the financial return in the building of condos in down town Toronto.
I think it would fall well within the parameters of this blog.
@moe if you live in the States as do some of my grandchildren, I understand your frustration. Ike said many years ago, 'beware the corporate/military buildup' - well they are running your country. And war is hell!
Posted by: Robert | 02/22/2011 at 08:14 AM
Boo Who?,
great post. thank you.
it's nice to know that there are other people who yell at the Tv occasinally. :-)
Posted by: Peter | 02/22/2011 at 08:15 AM
I know, I know its MLSE see how confusing these large corporations can be.
Posted by: Robert | 02/22/2011 at 08:15 AM
damn, Pinor Gringot - dont you ever get bored with your lame insults? You would really have to be smarter, better looking or funnier for me to even condering being insulted by you, and come on dude, we know none of that is even close to possible.
@ vinay, yes, please send tg77 email to me, and TG - thanks for the offer. Couldnt believe someone here was talking to me without being a total douche.
@Moe Gree : much like when you debate me in hockey, you sound ridiculous debating a PhD in his chosen topic of expertise. Just saying.
Posted by: Ostrich Lover | 02/22/2011 at 08:40 AM
@TG77: I did widen the debate in that post, you are right.
@Robert: I do live in the US and admittedly that is a main source of my frustration. Every year there seem to be fewer differences between the two countries. I'm afraid we'll see a lot more negative changes if Harper even gets a majority. Watch out!
@Pinot: There can be good companies - and there are. It's all a question of ownership. Privately held companies can do all the good they want. They have souls. Publicly held corporations have to answer to shareholders which means profit is everything. I doubt if Johns Hopkins is a public corporation.
Posted by: moe green | 02/22/2011 at 09:00 AM
Hear that OL? That's the sound of absolutely no one giving a f--- what you have to say.
Posted by: hoofheartz | 02/22/2011 at 09:07 AM
Yeah, that is why that cant stop talking back, whining , insulting etc. Deny it all you want buddy, but you care more than anyone.
VM Replies: Do I have to call another time-out here? Come on, people. No fighting on game day.
Posted by: Ostrich_Lover | 02/22/2011 at 09:32 AM
Speaking of game day, have their been any call-ups? I can't imagine Burke is gonna be able to fill the void on D by game time. Anyone hear anything? Where is Blacker? What about Hol.. Holz... that German guy?
The Isles crushed Florida last night. They are for real. We better be ready.
Posted by: moe green | 02/22/2011 at 10:07 AM
Sorry VM but some people just deserve a thrust kick to the chest and a shot to the larnyx and now I will go back to ignoring OL which should last until the next time he says something moronic (which should be in about 3 minutes).
Posted by: hoofheartz | 02/22/2011 at 10:20 AM
Quote of the day (found it on TSN, nonetheless): "So the Leafs are interested in a defenseman; are they looking more for the Beauchamin type or the Kaberle Type?"
....on a side note, does anyone think Souray would have been worth a try? I mean, he did just clear waivers.
Posted by: gettingcozywithsarkozy | 02/22/2011 at 10:25 AM
Boo, a classic guest post, very funny! My wife already thinks my support for this team is irrational and makes me unstable, your blog will be used as further evidence to prove her right.
Posted by: Rooney | 02/22/2011 at 10:35 AM
@gettingcozy - I guess the real question is, would Souray be an improvement on what the Leafs currently have on defence. Personally I think the answer is yes, but BB is probably looking for someone younger that can be used beyond this season.
Posted by: hoofheartz | 02/22/2011 at 10:49 AM
I think we need a d-man who has the potential and skills of a Kaberle but is 6 to 10 years younger and a lot tougher. I think the key is potential, he does not have to be there yet.
Posted by: Rooney | 02/22/2011 at 11:18 AM
@moe re Harper. Couldn't agree more. Egotistical 'b' and his ugly campaigns is more Republican than the Republicans. If he gets his majority, we will be flying the stars and stripes in no time.
Hockey tonight. We had better be ready. The Isles under their new system are starting to make some noise.
My understanding of the Souray deal is that he has a huge contract and has slowed down considerably.
Why not trade that third round pick to Boston for Kaberle? LOL
Posted by: Robert | 02/22/2011 at 11:22 AM
Personally, i think BB should be looking for a power forward and not a D-man. why don't they call somebody up from the Marlies? what happened to Finger or blacker or Holzner?
Posted by: Peter | 02/22/2011 at 11:22 AM
Would it be such a bad thing to bring Colbourne up to see what hes got. 3 goals in 2 games with the Marlies doesn't seem to be too bad a start. Although the word we dare not say is slipping through the Blue and White grasp I don't see what harm it would do to put some of the guys into a _________ race while there is still some pressure rather than wait for mathematical elimination.
VM Replies: At the press conference, Burke did not dismiss the possibility of seeing him up here at some point. But he said his hands were tied by "arcane" rules related to the number of call-ups a team is allowed after the deadline.
Posted by: hoofheartz | 02/22/2011 at 12:14 PM
@ hoof - I think Souray's deal runs through next year too and he has a whopping total of 3 goals in the AHL. I wondered too about taking him on but the extra year of contract is not going to make him too attractive and I think he passed through the waivers wire and is likely headed back to the Hershey Bears.
@ gettingcozy - that line about kaberle vs. beauchemin is awesome! I definitely understand both trades made by Burke and I like the return in both but it does sound really odd to say the Leafs are in the market for a d-man after trading two veterans who played a lot of key minutes just a few days ago.
@Robert- I ultimately have some interest in looking at the role of social responsibility in sports and entertainment and I have some hypotheses (which I can't share if I end up getting my act together and putting a survey tool together related to this area) and I was hoping perhaps to even have a chance to interview, or have some of you fine members of the ALF blog be a part of my sample but given we have had a bit of a public debate, maybe you are all spoiled now as possible participants! It's something that has to wait until I am done my dissertation though.
Anyway, I will return to my self-annointed duties of pre-game DJ and throw a quick "mix" together for y'all closer to puck drop. Moe and I have agreed to take our chat, well I can't say offline, but over email instead.
VM Replies: Yes, music! I just put up a game day post that ends with a song contribution.
Posted by: TG77 | 02/22/2011 at 12:17 PM
I was planning to add some pre-game music before heading out to my own match de hockey tonight. Of course it will mostly be 70's and 80's and at least one 1 hit wonder that has been covered recently.
VM Replies: Start sending them in...
Posted by: hoofheartz | 02/22/2011 at 01:03 PM
The most striking things about "Beleafers" is their willingness to believe a win or two translates into "a corner turned" and absolute faith that a player pulling on the blue & white jersey becomes a better player. Oh and their blissful ignorance of every other team in the league is entertaining as well. That ignorance leads fans to believe that packaging a bunch of 3rd line players together equates a top line player in return, usually after listing their perceptions of the outgoing players weaknesses.
The last 2 seasons of "improvements" have been a failure. Fans believed Gustavsson's absurd nickname actually meant something; that over-looked college free agents were going to step right into first line action and perform at that level; that the defence was amongst the best in the NHL. There is a large segment of Leafs fans that are so delusional they actually believed the Finger signing was a good move even after looking at his numbers. In short, Leafs fans believe whatever Burke is selling them in little plastic cups is whatever flavour he tell them it is, even as they are spitting it out.
Burke had a long time to turn the Canucks into a top team and managed to produce a decent regular season squad that never went beyond the 2nd round. Burke inherited a strong squad in Anaheim that merely needed some tinkering, and when Pronger came available he leapt on it to his credit but the bulk of the work was done by his predecessors. Coming into Toronto he inherited an over-rated bunch convinced of their own ability simply because they were playing for the Leafs and not a top quality squad in need of simple tinkering.
When Burke predicted playoff action for this team before the season started the bandwagon filled up pretty fast, and when that deceptive little streak opened the season some Leafs fans went way over the top and predicted a divisional title and top 3 finish. Now that the league has shaken out the Leafs are a long shot to make the playoffs, but fans are convinced the team plays in a vacuum and that closing the gap to 8th is going to be easy because it is "only" X points. I would rather see some realism from fans in place of the absurd boosterism and blatant ignorance of the game outside Leafsland but that is simply not going to happen.
Posted by: Gerhard | 02/22/2011 at 01:44 PM
Vinay, why would you even print this?
Sorry VM but some people just deserve a thrust kick to the chest and a shot to the larnyx and now I will go back to ignoring OL which should last until the next time he says something moronic (which should be in about 3 minutes).
Maybe my arrogant schtick rubs people the wrong way -and intentionally - so I dont mind being insulted, but this guy consitantly goes too far. This is guy is easily the worst poster you have and I do not know why you encourage him. If he is over 14 I will eat my hat.
VM Replies: I thought you guys were over all of this. He approved your guest post! You were getting along for a while there...
Now a single tear rests on my cheek.
Posted by: Ostrich_Lover | 02/22/2011 at 04:36 PM
Nice post future holder of a Ph.Duh in English Lit. It isn't the fact that your "schtick" rubs people the wrong way, its the fact that you're an anal orifice.
Hearing you profess to intentionally rub people the wrong way is certainly no surprise but I just consider the source. As for your contention that you don't mind being insulted, how could anything be further from the truth. You whine like a gut shot dog whenever someone does insult you, demanding an apology for any and every slight.
Posted by: hoofheartz | 02/22/2011 at 05:14 PM