Game 76: The dream fades to black during Earth Hour

Oh, well.

It was a good run, people. A fun run. An inspiring run. A run in which we laughed and cheered and thought, "You know? I really think they might pull this off."

The odds were never good. The words "mathematically eliminated" have not yet been uttered. But after last night's 4-2 loss in Detroit – combined with Buffalo's back-to-back wins this weekend – I think we can safely place the 2010-2011 season in a memento box and shelve it for future reference.

Are there positives? Yes. There are so many positives. Prospects, picks, free agents, cap room – we can discuss all of this in the remaining days ahead, before we remove our name badges, shake hands and vanish into the summer.

For now, though, it's time to just feel. Time to make sense of the season that is nearly in the books. Angry? Sad? Disappointed? Excited?

Post-game comments are now open for the sixth last time.

PHOTO: CHRIS YOUNG/CANADIAN PRESS

Comments

[Geoff Read]

Wow. You guys kept busy yesterday. Holy shnikies. I only had time to skim the comments.

I'll say this: if Burke keeps Wilson it will provide endless entertainment for this Montreal fan to read the continuing vitriol on this blog directed his way next year. I don't know if I can remember a fan base turning on a coach quite so decisively, and I remember the glorious tenure of Mario Tremblay in Montreal. I wonder if Wilson came across as a nicer guy if he'd get cut a little more slack?

[gettingcozywithsarkozy]

@ PP:

I have a few questions about some of our players also. I believe Kessel had a decent year with the help he got on his line. We're looking at potentially 30+ goals and remember he had a few streaks there were he wasn't scoring (there was that 14 games streak w/o a goal wasn't there?). Imagine if he hadn't hit that rut there, he would be over 40 goals this year. I am impressed with the work ethic he has showed as of late.
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MacArthur is a guy I would like to keep just because of the chemistry I see between his and the soviets. If he can put up another 15-20 goals next year, I would be happy. Of course, there is the thing about his contract, if he asks too much, I would reconsider, but I'm thinking $2.5 annually isn't too much for the 4th highest scorer on the team.
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On the topic of hardware come year-end, I think Letang deserves serious Norris consideration this year. Since my "second" team is Pittsburgh, I've watched this guy quite a bit and he is impressing me big time as he becomes more solid every game.
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Vezina: though I think its gonna be another "one hit wonder", thomas should walk away with it this year, his play has been stellar.
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Calder: Although I would like to see our boy Jimmy take it home, I don't think he will be considered. I can see Grabner taking the prize there; he's been extremely impressive. In any case, I agree with you here: ABS (that is "Anyone But Subban"; that boy still needs to learn some respect).
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On the topic of the "hockeytown" trademark; this is true, while Michigan may be tops in the US in terms of hockey, every fan I come across in town admitts that it is a distant 3rd (4th if the Pistons are doing well) in terms of sports in the city. If we're including highschool hockey for consideration, Minnesota gives Michigan a serious run for its money. The name was just a gimmick on which Ilitch capitalized on in the mid-90s. For the record, NO US CITY CAN COMPARE TO EVEN THE WEAKEST CANADIAN CITY IN TERMS OF HOCKEY FOLLOWING (except maybe Ottawa, but even then, I'm doubtful).

[Wandering Penguin]

I can't speak for everyone, but I didn't just "turn on" Wrong Wilson this year. I haven't liked him since he had that head-shakingly dumb spat with Marleau in San Jose. I didn't want him in Toronto and was really not happy when we hired him. However, like I did with my distaste for Burke, I decided to suck it up and see if they could point us cup-ward. My jury is still out on Burke - I don't agree with some of his decisions but it's nice to finally see someone with SOME kind of plan stick to it against all opposition - but seeing Wilson up-close as a bench boss has absolutely solidified my opinion that this man is a TERRIBLE coach. My feeling is he is COUNTER-productive and that's not something a young, supposedly fragile team should have to deal with on top of playing in this pressure cooker. When you are on a learning curve the very last thing you need is your coach smugly mocking you in the press. Couple that with his mind-bogglingly dumb decisions (or non-decisions) at ice level and it becomes, I think, obvious that the difference this year between the playoffs and where the Leafs are now is standing there open-mouthed and soporific behind the bench game in, game out.

There may well be worse coaches in the NHL. For one thing, I have no idea why Bruce Boudreau has hung onto his job this long. But I don't really care as much about them. It's time to eliminate the nepotism and kick Wilson upstairs to a candy-coated job where he can't do nearly as much damage. Throw him more money, too, to ease Burke's guilt. Who cares? Just get him the hell out of there.

[We BeLeaf]

@ WP, greets to you. I can't say that I do not disagree with you on Wilson. For the most part everything you have said is correct. I for one have been fence-sitting when it comes to what he's done this season, as it's only fair to reserve judgement until it's all over. As it stands now, the Leafs are an improved team whether it's attributed to his coaching or not. My guess is Burke will stay with him until the end, or unless RW retires. Would you want a guy like Scotty Bowman behind the bench?

[Ryan]

In all reality, this push has done more for the future rather than the present. The season has glimmered some light upon some future studs on the team. Grabo has emerged as a Scoring machine, C-Mac has shown glimpses of greatness, Kulemin has proved he is a top six forward, Kessel is still a 30 goal man, maybe more if Bozak survives his Sophomore Slump... On the Blue Line, Schenn has developed into everything the scouts promised, Aulie is a Machine, Phaneuf survived year one wearing the C on a high note, and Gunner is a solid depth guy suffering the sophomore blues. Now Reimer is the wild card, if he comes back next year in the same form, the Leafs are a legit team. Rynnas would make a solid back up (is Gustav is still suffering Heart problems). The future is bright and this current Roster which is the second youngest in the NHL is destined for greatness... Burke is doing this right and is stocking the shelves with Blue Chips.

[Geoff Read]

Sarko,

I suspect you're right about US markets vs. Canadian markets. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Wild were ever a good, exciting team. I always thought it was the height of weirdness that the North Stars left that market to go to Dallas. Hockey's also pretty big in Vermont, but of course I don't see the NHL in Burlington anytime soon.

Having said that, I've been to two games in the US in the past year, one in Philly and one in Columbus, and I was impressed by the passion of the fans in both markets (yes, even in Columbus). So, while the NHL is way more popular in Canada than in the US, the fans it does have south of the border are just as into the game as Canadian fans, at least in my recent experience.

[Chad]

I just hope they keep playing the same kind of hockey for the rest of the season, and don't go back to their slumping ways of pre-allstar break.
Sure the playoffs are all but out of reach, but it still feels good to win. And it feels even better when the B's have your 1st round pick!!
We're still a team in development. Keep playing Reimer. Keep skating hard. Keep up with the never say die attitude. Do your best to win out the season! We love seeing you win, no matter what the situation!
GLG!!!

[TimB]

I hear ya Hoof.I'm a little disappointed it's not warm enough to sit out on the porch in my wife beater drinkin' beer.

[Wandering Penguin]

@We BeLeaf: I don't think this team is ready for a Bowman-type coach. I think he's only really effective when a team is on the verge of greatness, ready for the final push. He can whip them over the top. Where the Leafs are now, though, they really need to be encouraged and nurtured. I am really starting to see the logic of hiring a younger coach who can relate to the growing pains of the kids because he is still growing himself. In a few years, if that coach plateaus, then go out and get the final piece - a Bowman or Burns (whom I LOVED).

I really like the job Dan Bielsma has done with the Pens since the MOMENT he took over that team. I watched with great interest the 24/7 Road to the Winter Classic 4-parter on HBO earlier this year and it only solidified my belief that I would FAR rather play (and therefore would perform better) for Bielsma than Boudreau (for example).

I'm not for a second going to sit here and say that all of the troubles the Leafs had this year were all Wilson's fault. That would just be naive. For one thing, although I mocked Burke for moving him out at the time, it's become quite apparent that Versteeg was/is a destructive influence in the room. Kudos to Burke for having the guts to admit that mistake before it had a chance to become any worse. The goaltending was mediocre early on (although when Gustavsson started to turn it on Wilson put a quick end to that with his early hook against Edmonton) and having lived through Toskala and Ranford it's pretty easy to see how quickly things can go south when you have no support in net. Fully 1/3 of the defence was terrible for chunks of this season and the loss of Beauchemin in particular (with no replacement) was, for me, a big reason they will likely come up short again this year.

But as I said before, it's not that tough to motivate a team to play better in a sprint when they are this close to the promised land. If it was, the Leafs wouldn't be able to do this year in, year out. It's a lot more difficult - and important - to win in the "Sled Dog Days" of bleakest November and December when you really can't see the prize with a telescope. So when this season is over and Burke sits down to analyze it, I really hope he does so with an open mind and clear eyes. The stats he really needs to pay attention to are the ones when the team was blowing late leads and Wilson didn't seem to have the answer.

Just a final thought: I have often wondered why teams don't hire at least one assistant coach from a European region to ease the transition for some of these kids from across the pond. Additionally, I would love to see a Russian power play specialist join the ranks next year. Clearly our North-American style of just shooting from everywhere isn't working.

[moe green]

You know Geoff, we don't hate Wilson for no reason. Have you had a gander at the Leaf power play lately? Like seriously dude. Defense skates the puck out of the zone then telegraphs who they will be passing to and wait until said player is encountering a defender or two then drives the puck into that player's skates. Yeesh. They can't even gain the zone. And this has been happening for a while and getting worse. Similar problems with the PK. In fairness, either Wilson is doing a bad job teaching or the players are really slow learners.

Anyone can coach a team of superstars. Wilson hasn't managed to make this team better. I think they are better thanks to the players themselves. Wilson even credits Grabovski's hard work before and after practice for his success. Same as Kulemin and MacArthur. The players are better but I think the coaching staff is sub-par. I don't think Wilson cares enough. I think he has a golfing retirement in his sites. Is there a better gig in the NHL for a golf enthusiast than coaching the Toronto Maple Leafs?

I firmly believe that with a better coach this season the Leafs would have easily made the playoffs. That is really hard to take.

[Ken Baumgartner]

AH, back from the basement after cleaning the lint from dryer while thinking about this team of ours. I had a lot of lint.

All along I have maintained two things, First this team has a bright future. There are players on this team whom I believe will make an impact. I don't need to name them, everyone already knows. Ostrich Lover or Nik Culeman have already gone over 300 times too.

Second this team was expected to make the playoffs this year and anything less was a failure. 16th place is the minimum criteria to be mediocre and that did not happen. Regardless of how well they played since the allstar break, since January 1st really, they failed. If you are doing a test and blow the first half of it and then pull up your socks only to get close it is still a fail. You are graded on the whole test not half the test.

Everyone can say all they want that it feels different, I felt that too, but in the end we are on the outside again watching other teams vye for the Stanley cup and that SUCKS!.

Next year is 12 months away and who knows what will happen. Even if I think they have a bright future it is still a hope and a dream. The reality is we don't know what will happen next year. Who had a career year this year never to be repeated, I don't know, nor do you. Who's career is on the decline, Kessel, Phaneuf, Reimer? Probably not but I don't know that and nor do you. What I do know is that this team has been close like this before, following the same path of digging this deep hole only to get near the top of the hole, and then to be washed back down. You think that they they are on the cusp of something good because it feels different and hope springs eternal every Autumm. Then the hole in the earth opens up again. All this talk now of everything will be alright is hogwash and is BLUE AND WHITE DISEASE. HAACHOO!. I am tired of cheering for a crappy hockey team. I'll even take mediocre right now.

When Ron Wilson says yea we went 4-0 to start the season, and then he says we have played well for the last 30 - 40 games and that is why we feel good about it, I say look in between those two times and see just how crap you guys really were and take responsibility for that while yuo take credit for the other half season. You didn't make the playoffs because of that period of total ineptitude and disinterest and you will just ignore it, and so then should we right. You guys are a bunch of bums. You tried your hardest and your hardest wasn't good enough, because your hardest was only for 30 or 40 games. Phaneuf what are you going to do about it because it was you who said missing the playoffs was unacceptable, or are you still basking in the glow of this glorious experience you are having as a captain. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

[pinot grigio]

@Ryan
I like your very positive evaluation of the young studs. The Grabo line is the team's top line right now and it would be a crime to break it up. I am more reserved about some of the others though. I think Kessel has been disappointing this year. He should have been much closer to 50 goals than the for him measly 28 or 29. Phaneuf is getting better but still pulls some maddening boneheaded plays, Schenn would benefit from some very solid coaching; he deflects pucks rather than blocks them and his positioning is sometimes very iffy. I know, he is only completing his 3rd season and he still will grow but there should be someone to guide that growth. Aulie and Gunnarson are as good as they are because they keep it simple and that is a real quality in young defensemen.
Where I would like to place an asterix is your statement that Burke is stocking the shelves with blue chips. Is he? There are only two blue chips on the Marlies that I can see and those are Kadri and Colborne. There may be someone in junior, like this kid McKegg, but I am very dubious about all the college players that fill the shelves; so far that has not been a great success story.
Much depends on what will happen this summer, more than in most previous summers. We'll have to get hold of someone who can carry this team on the ice and someone who can guide the team behind the bench. If either of those two individuals remains absent, the future looks only marginally better. If both are in place next season, I agree with you and we'll finally see the playoffs again from the inside. What a thrill that'll be.

[Phil]

Vinay: Hope you keep this blog going through out the playoffs no matter what happens to the Leafs.It's very entertaining! As far as the Habs recent poor play is concerned, they basically limped into the playoffs last year,needing a point from an overtime loss to the Leafs during last game of regular season just to qualify for postseason. Then they went on a bit of a roll. I can only imagine the sleepless,nightmare filled nights endured by someone like hoofheartz when the Habs eliminated President Trophy winning Washington,then did the same to the defending Stanley Cup Champion Pittsburgh Penguins. What a relief it must have been to him to see them get knocked off by Philly!Oh well.You take your jollies any way you can,I guess.
Keep up the good work,VM!

VM Replies: Thank you, Phil.

[We BeLeaf]

@ Wandering Penguin,

That was an outstanding post! Your viewpoint on Bowman was something I hadn't thought of, and you're exactly right about Bielsma. I think no one will ever argue about Burns' accomplishments as a Leaf. Pyramid Power and I were discussing awhile back about who we'd like to see as possible coaches when the need arises, and such names as Muller, and Eakins came about. Doubt that it will happen, but you never know. I thought I had heard a rumour about Randy Carlysle last week, but not certain.

[TimB]

I know Leaf directors shot down Glenn Healy as GM,but I think he would make a great coach.

[fishypete]

My 7 year old son cried for a good 20 minutes after the empty net goal on Saturday. It was a sad cry and an honest cry. He believed the Leafs would make it, and it broke my heart. It completely and totally broke my heart to see him so upset - and i've been honest with him on the Leafs chances and past failures. Having said that, my son has a poster of Giggy in his room, and i've repeatedly asked him why he wants to display it, and further why he wants to wear his little leaf jersey after a loss, and you know what he tells me? "Because I like the Leafs Dad, and you like the leafs Dad." At the end of the day, that's why I am happy with this season and look forward to the next, and would never cheer for another team, no matter what. I'll stand by my son and cry today in sorrow, and perhaps, hopefully in joy tomorrow.

VM Replies: Step forward, fishypete, and please collect your trophy for Comment of The Season.
Also, please do not look at me right now. There is dust or something in my eye.

[Boo Who?]

Okay first things first - @Geoff, you are welcome here, but I cannot permit use of the sacred phrase 'holy shnikies' coming from a Habs fan. Blasphemer! (Or should I say 'Sinner'?) I suppose I forgive you, because thinking of Tommy Boy always puts a smile on my face.

As much as I love our baby Buds, I am not terribly sad to see them miss the post-season. Because you have to earn that sh*t. And playing for only half a season is not good enough. Playing hard only when your favourite goalie is in net and none of your key players are injured is not good enough. And by Jeebus and all the saints, never ever scoring on the PP is just not good enough. There are some important factors missing from our game, which would result in a humiliating slaughter at the hands of a more experienced and cohesive team. As close as we've come, I can't be blind to these facts.

I am not saying the Leafs players are poor or unskilled. I am saying that we're still too green, too prone to mistakes, and appear to lack either the discipline or the systems needed to get us playing consistently good hockey. And whether he 'deserves' it or not, the coach should take the heat for an underperforming team. It's his job.

I recall Burke saying earlier this year that he's confident his stakeholders are happy because the season ticket holders are happy. And I felt like putting my foot in the darkest part of that man. You know why those folks are happy, Burkie? Because they're Leafs season ticket holders! They can afford to spend more on hockey tickets than some people make in year, they're the lords of the bloody earth. But if you're in the business of running a hockey team, you should know the game reaches beyond the confines of the ACC. Your team makes almost half the league's income - that's not all due to the season ticket holders, you can be sure of that. You need a face to represent this enterprise, and a decent product out there on the ice. Your coach alienates and mismanages the fans, the media and from the looks of it, your players. *Beep* the high road. Time to do a little pandering. Find someone that's going to get stuff done.

[hoofheartz]

You're right Phil, watching the stinking habs lose is (almost) akin to the Leafs winning. Nothing gives me greater pleasure than listening to the incessant whining and excuse making from the majority of their fans when the pukes lose. Funny how that behaviour is only acceptable from a stinking hab fan isn't it? Now be off with you, there are some stinking hab fans planning a riot just in case they happen to win a game in the 1st round and I want to watch their high speed wobble as they gleefully pick intended targets.

[Wandering Penguin]

@We BeLeaf: Thank you very much for the kind words. It only occurred to me after I left the keyboard at lunchtime that it was incredibly rude of me to pontificate at such great length without once asking who YOU thought would be a good coach.

So...I'm finally asking. With apologies for not doing it sooner. Do you have someone in mind - even Wilson himself?

[Wandering Penguin]

@Boo - I remember being infuriated over the exact same thing. "I talk to REAL Leaf fans all the time and they are very happy with the job I am doing. I see season ticket holders every game on the ride up and we talk about the progress." I think he wasn't even just talking about season ticket holders, I think he meant BOX owners. And not even "owners" but people who are freeloading off of them.

You want to talk to a REAL Leaf fan, Brian? Drop in here for half an hour. It might not change your mind but at least you'd see the difference.

[A True Leafs Fan]

Wierd?!?? I just had one of those out of body experiences. like people experience when they are the main character in any of the Final Destination movies. heres what will happen.

Leafs go undefeated in the last 6 games. we win by 2 goals or more for everyone.

Buffallo after holding on to the play offs for so long have a sudden relapse after Miller gets terribly ill drinking a "special" water bottle that I have prepared for him.(I know some people that know some people. that can get me into the buffalo locker room...No big deal) and carolina tries to surpass them.

but when Carolina starts to do well. they realize there captain is a big goof. and fall short to the leafs by 1 point. at the same time. Kessel says to the media that carolina couldn't have made it to the play offs even if they tried, because "its not a big hockey market."

Boom! Leafs are in the playoffs..

THERE IS ALWAYS HOPE!!!!

[Fancy Pants]

I think the main positive we have gained from this 2010-11 season is in fact this blog. A new way to experience the shared hopes and agonies and momentary triumphs of being a Leafs fan. Looking forward to many more years of this. Is there some sort of award we can nominate this blog for?

VM Replies: Thank you, Fancy Pants. (Oddly enough, that's a phrase my wife often uses after I'm forced to change before we go out.)
No awards necessary! To be honest, and as I've said before, I'm the one who is grateful. It's nice to not suffer/cheer alone.

[We BeLeaf]

@ Wandering Penguin,

No apologies necessary. I would like to see Kirk Muller as a possible candidate for the coaching position. I am not sure if Eakins is ready to be promoted yet, or perhaps Burke feels he's more valuable in the AHL at this time. We shall how he fares in the playoffs which could be a determining factor for his future. What I sometimes find hard to understand is why the Leafs have had Zettler and Acton as assistants all these years and nothing has been done regarding them.

And speaking of you wanting a European coach as assistant to help ease the transition of the European players, do you remember Alpo Suhonen?

[Harry Anderson]

Hello Leaf land. Harry Anderson checking in to see how everything is and to follow up a couple of things. So you know up front, and likely much to many a disappointment, yes I am a Canadiens fan and have been for many years. But you got me wrong on the other two. Yes I like the Packers, but the team I actually follow is San Diego and have since the days of John Hadl. Likely most of you have no idea who he was, but he was a talented player on a poor team. And in baseball its The Angels Been out there a number of times to watch them, and the park is great. Getting to the Leafs. May I say that after throwing a few darts yesterday and getting a predicted response let me say I do not hate the Leafs. Its funny though when someone says something against them you get all kinds of garbage thrown at you. I will say the Leafs do have a number of talented young players trying to find their way. The best thing that could happen in player development is let Mr Wilson go. He is supposed to be a master at putting together special teams and he has enough talent on this team that they should be much higher in the rankings. Can a coach change a team? Well not always. But many times when you change the coach and new ideas follow things turn around. Look at the Devils. Jacques Lemaire must have something going for him because every time they ask him to rescue the team he does. This year they may fall a little short, but what a difference he has made. Don't know who put Mike K career in the toilet, but I think we all remember how good he was in Montreal and that's why he was given the contract he was. The team needs vision and a system. Get one and so many players will rise up to the challenge and yes you will not only make the playoffs but you will make some noise. Once into the playoffs and experience is gained then you start getting the Kessels of the world. Trust me I don't hate your team and I would love nothing better than a good old fashioned Mtl vs Tor playoff match. It could happen quicker if the Leafs get a coach, and Montreal gets a couple of guys that can score. Perhaps Burke may have a surprise up his sleeve. How about trading both of your firsts this year and whatever else it takes to the Kings and get Schenn. Wow that would be a move that takes guts but now you have that guy that you build around. And Luke would be a better player knowing that he and his brother will be the Forces of the Leaf Empire. Just a thought, not bad eh? But I still say if you guys had PK you would love him. You hated Tucker until he wore blue and whitle.. Goodbye for now and remember there is another day.

[Wandering Penguin]

I'm starting to wish Bull Shannon had just shot Harry when he had the chance.

[Billy]

Well...a lot has been said and have enjoyed this banter - Thanks Vin, and thanks everyone..

Vin- read your article from last week on Parent Central..A line out of there struck me as fitting here (to a certain degree)

"A 4-year-old (Leaf fan and ALB poster) is wonderfully impulsive, giddy, demanding, histrionic, tactile and curious about the world. There are no unspoken thoughts, only charming soliloquies bookended between moments of acute joy and acute frustration."

Thank you to everyone. Still wearing my Saganiuk sweater.

VM Replies: Billy! We still have a couple of weeks to go here. So don't leave and don't remove the sweater just yet.

[We BeLeaf]

@ A True Leafs Fan,

You wouldn't by chance be the same guy who placed a 'special' water bottle in Ben Johnson locker room prior to running the 100m race in Atlanta were you?

I Cheetah all the time!!!
LOL

[TimB]

@fishypete. Your son represents what Leafs Nation is all about.The haters (and half the so called Leafs fans) will never,ever understand that.Give him a hug for me.

[Wandering Penguin]

@WBL: I have been hearing a lot about Kirk Muller and how he'd be a good fit. Although I enjoyed him very much as a player, I have to honestly say I don't know a lot about him as a coach. Is he responsible for one particular area of turnaround on the Habs? I know he's well-loved there, but that's not always the best thing.

If I were going to back anyone of that particular kind of skill set and age, I think I would have to put my money behind Killer. I have no idea what his coaching abilities would be like at the NHL level but I do think 2 things are immediately in his favour: 1) because of the love affair this city has with him he would be forgiven a lot of growing pains early on and that can only help take the pressure off; and 2) when he played here there wasn't a soul in the NHL who outworked him. If he came to the Leafs and his ONLY legacy was to teach Kessel how to work harder than anyone else and drive TO the net instead of PAST it all the time, he'd be worth the experiment and Kessel would be a 60-goal scorer. Brett Hull had a release like Kessel but he also went to the net and picked up a ton of rebound goals. That's a 20-goal difference every year, right there.

Not sure who mentioned Healy earlier but that was the best laugh I had all day.

[hoofheartz]

Why are you here Harry? You have proven with past comments that you're nothing but a habitroll, so just exactly why are you here? If we had PuKe we'd love him? Probably, but right now he's just another stinking habnot and truthfully I'd rather have Gionta or Plakenec. I guess I just don't buy the notion that a player has to have a little swagger to be effective. Perhaps after they've been in the league for a while but not a newby.

[Geoff Read]

Oh Hoofy, PK is awesome and you know it. The guy has all the tools. I love all the angst people have about his "swagger".... come on, it's not like he's the first guy to break into the league and try to throw other players off their games with a little trash talk. And I do wonder (not saying this about you but about others in the media and league) whether race doesn't subtly play a role in some players' and commentators' reactions. The best example I can think of is after Cherry dissed PK on Coach's Corner for being too uppity, he went on in the post-game to praise Zach Smith of the Senators as a young guy who plays "in your face" hockey that throws star players on the other teams off their games. And I was left wondering, what exactly is the difference between these two guys (Subban and Smith)? And I could only come up with one: the colour of their skin. I'm not saying that Cherry or anyone else consciously thinks "he's black and I don't like him" but I wonder if the fact that he's black doesn't condition people's responses to him on a subconscious level.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll get a bunch of angry responses for this post, but I have to warn you all I'm logging off for the day... gotta go coach hockey actually.

[Boo Who?]

Now now, I think we're a bit remiss to go bashing Harry for that last post. Nothing pleases me more than seeing a backsliding, backpedaling Habs fan trying to curry favour with Leafies. He cannot help his Habby ways, and with a bit of patience and an open mind, we can help him to overcome his prejudices.
You Habbies like us so much you kind of feel sick inside, right? This is normal. It will pass. We're lovable little f**kers, you just need to de-sensitize yourself through prolonged exposure and then you'll have no problems interacting with us like normal human beings.

To answer your question Harry, while it sounds good on paper, I'm not 100% sold on the idea of getting Brayden to join the Dark Side just yet. I don't know if I want to watch another untested 19 yr old work through his growing pains after being paraded around like the Second Coming. I'm a woman of mature and discerning tastes. No more little boys please. Find me a man, and one that knows how to score.

[Billy]

Can someone please post a link to a Habs blog where Leaf fans go to post? Seriously...I need to see it for myself..Do Leaf fans do that or is it just a habs fan thing?

[TimB]

Hoof,you damn racist!

[gettingcozywithsarkozy]

Geoff,

The difference between PK and others who play what you call "in your face" hockey is that PK shows a certain level of disrespect to many opponents (face-washing opponents after whistles, hacking and whacking at opponents arms/legs, etc.). There's a reason fellow hockey players have also labelled him a punk... but then again, they must all subconciously be prejudice too right?!?

[Wandering Penguin]

PK is a punk and a cheap shot artist. There's nothing "in your face" about him, he's just a nasty piece of work. Maybe he'll mature, but I don't care. I don't give a rat's patootie about swagger and showboatting and trash talk, it's the slewfooting and chipping skates out from under you near the boards and pretending to take off your helmet so you can hammer someone who lets his guard down crap that I cannot abide.

But, as I have said a few times already, it's not difficult to see why he is so loved where he DOES play. The Habs have long been the divingest (not a word), fakiest (also not a word), just generally cheap-shottiest (one of these HAS to be a word) team in the NHL. It's not all their fault; their rabid fans love it so why wouldn't they play that way?

But it's still disgusting.

[Wandering Penguin]

@Billy - some Leaf fans do that, yes. I'm sure a lot of them do, actually. But percentage-wise (or "per-capita" to make some people happy), I'd bet not as many Leaf fans post smack on other teams' blogs as the other way around.

Just petty jealousy. Simple as that.

[maxwelledison]

Vinay!

Re: The 3:41 inbound

Absolutely... the best hockey Houdini escape-trick of the week!

[TimB]

@Wandering Penguin & gettingcozywithsarkozy. You damn racists!

[Wandering Penguin]

For Billy, because he asked:

I typed "habs fan blogs" into google and the top hit was this site:

http://fourhabsfans.blogspot.com/

Note the especially wonderful language this "lawyer" uses to write his blog.

I typed "leafs fan blogs" in and found...well, the site I am currently typing on. So, there you go. With choices like that, it's no wonder they come here for sustenance.

[Wandering Penguin]

@TimB - that's me all over. You nailed it. It's why I lived near the centre of the most racially diverse city in this country. I guess I ought to work on that before I p!$$ off any more Hab fans. *shudder*

[Wandering Penguin]

Damn - I forgot to post that Hab fans needn't respond to my comments as I am logging off to lead blind, one-legged war refugees from the hospital where I volunteer to the soup kitchen where I also volunteer. Oddly, though, I'll be back almost immediately: it doesn't take me a whole day to do that like it does take, apparently, to COACH HOCKEY.

[Billy]

Thanks Pen. The only PK I want to talk about is the Leafs PK and how horrible it is. Can we start the "Fire Wilson!" thing again? The only reason it got quiet was because they started winning. And not because he made a decision to start Reimer- he was forced to. Does everyone remember training camp and how good Reimer was then? Far outplayed Gus and should have made the team as back up from the outset. Imagine where this team would be if he started games in November when JSG first tweaked his groin? ARGH! He is the real deal and we are where we are at because of Mr. Wilson. It was his decision to send him back. Ramble...ramble..ramble...saganiuk...ramble...next year... ramble...lemon squares...ramble..ramble..fluffy tail...ramble...McCabe....ramble..ramble....Jiri Crha..ramble...Stamkos....ramble...offer sheet....ramble...
Whoa? What?

[Wandering Penguin]

BTW, on that Hab blog I notice they refer to Subban as "Squid". Took me a while to connect the nickname with the kid. I've tried to find out why they call him that, but to no avail.

Surely to goodness it couldn't have anything even obliquely to do with squids shooting black ink....could it?

Nah. Of course not.

[Billy]

Thanks again, Pen. For everyone's information and pleasure. I scanned the 114 comments on the top story on that link and there doesn't seem to be any Leaf fans posting there although there are some references to them.
Also - the sites commenting guidelines:
Leave your comment
think before you post. or don't. we don't give a f***.

comments MUST include either profane language, links to pornography, or a reference to the Leafs or Bruins sucking.

Man, I hope the Canadiens miss. One point out of eighth, 3 out of ninth.

[Sensi-Bill]

Re. Harry Anderson at 6:49 PM (and other posts)
.
At the risk of causing SOME people here to get their knickers in a twist, I want to take a moment to talk about "hate" and so-called "haters."
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And before certain individuals get too excited, I would respectively ask that you not only hear me out, but to take a moment and reflect on what's actually being said.
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I chose Harry Anderson's comments, in particular the ones posted at 6:49 p.m., because I think they serve my points rather well.
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I have read and re-read that post and honestly, I just don't see anything particularly offensive, let alone hateful, there. His statements of facts seem fairly accurate and his interpretations and suggestions based on those facts are merely his opinions. And I thought we are agreed here that people are entitled to their opinions.
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And not only did I not see anything offensive or controversial in his post, but, in fact, I have heard much worse, Leafs-wise, from Leaf fans here.
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So I have to wonder why some people here are so quick to brand authors of such posts "haters."
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Is it that some people strongly believe that only Leaf fans are allowed to have opinions here? Is it that some people here believe that only Leaf fans are allowed to comment on the Leafs, this city, the team's fans?
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These very same people certainly don't hesitate to mention other teams, cities and fans, and always in a distinctly negative manner.
.
Which is why I find it so hypocritical when these people are quick to brand someone else a "hater." Especially someone posting in such a calm and polite manner.
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I mean these people sitting in instant judgement actually boast of their hatred of any thing or any person not actively pro Leafs. Does this not make THEM self-proclaimed haters?
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I just don't see membership in Leaf Nation being a free pass to consistently dump hate hither and yon, while branding others as haters for doing far, far less.
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Nor do I understand how being a proud, consistent, and sometimes even over-the-top hater of everything non-Leafs somehow makes one a better Leaf fan.
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Now, I don't mean to highlight individuals, but for example, can someone tell me how boasting about cheering for a visiting Soviet team --- DURING the Cold War --- because they were playing a Canadian team not based in Toronto, would make one somehow a better Leaf fan?
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And IF this person truly did that, then, given the nature of the Soviet regime at the time, especially its horrendous record on abuse of human rights, while such actions might make that individual feel like a more loyal Leaf fan, I would consider them less of a person. No, nobody HAD to cheer for Montréal. But if you didn't want to cheer for the Habs, the more appropriate response --- as always, in my humble opinion --- would have been to cheer for neither team.
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Now, could someone please honestly tell me what was so hateful in Mr. Anderson's comments, especially his 6:49 p.m. post?
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(And let's forget this "kicking us when we're down" business. I've seen far too much gloating here about the current state of the Ottawa franchise, and the troubles faced by the Montreal franchise, to have any sympathy for that whine.)
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I think most of us are worldly enough in terms of online hockey commentary --- or what passes for such in too many places --- to deny that much, MUCH worse "trolling" and "hatred" goes on elsewhere.
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In fact, frankly, I find it almost quaint to see the relatively polite and factual comments of Mr. Anderson being branded as "hate."
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But I think that being proud of one's own hate while quickly branding others as haters, especially the ones far more polite and respectful in their comments, does NOT reflect well on those who not only engage in this kind of double standard, but embrace it whole heartedly.
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I really would like to hear justification --- or a logical explanation --- for such actions, if such even exists.
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[ To be continued . . . ]

[Princess Mononoke]

hmmm this place is becoming less welcoming every day. That is sad.
Just for the record, I may be wrong, but I have always interpreted this blog as VM's blog. In fact, it is called "A Leaf Fan Blogs." *A* Leaf fan. A very smart, articulate, knowledgeable and polite Leafs fan, who also knows his hockey.

I have never approached this blog as being exclusively by and for Leafs fans, nor do I think it is written in that spirit. VM approves all manner of comments from many people, ergo he must favour spirited dialogue and exchange of ideas.

Why is everyone so darn territorial all of a sudden?
Why does it really matter if Habs fans or Sens fans post here once in a while? You don't have to read what they write. VM reads it and approves it. It's *his* blog. You are free to start your own blog, if you like.
It's become some kind of an offence for fans of other teams to weigh in on the Leafs players, coaching or what have you. Granted, some posters are unpleasant, but if your main beef against them is that they cheer for someone else, seriously, isn't it a bit childish to start looking for Habs blogs to "retaliate"?
Some of you guys seem to believe you're the gatekeepers here. I think you are mistaken. It's a blog about hockey. There are many different personalities, but the directing mind, the prime mover, the intelligent design, as it were, is VM. I don't see him excluding people or marking his territory in the canine fashion.

You know what? You're welcome to go on my blog and post about the Leafs if you please. It is a hockey blog, but with a distinctly Habs-centric angle, though I have written about Wilson. Some of you might enjoy my take on PK Subban. I welcome all comments about *hockey*, a sport I love. That's what it's all about, my friends: hockey. Take a chill pill.
(click on my username to get to my blog, and I promise to authorize all Leafs-related comments that contain no profanities).

[TimB]

While I agree with Princess that VM should not cut out any opposing views,the people here who respond are entitled to their voice also.And Princess I read your piece on PK awhile back and it was along the lines of Geoff's view that if we say anything against any black person,it is racial.That attitude just sets race relations in the wrong direction.

[Billy]

Princess - Vin's blog is titled A Leaf Fan's Blog. Not a "hockey blog". Not a "Place to bash Leaf fans by Habs fans blog" Vin will always approve comments - after being here for a while, it's clear that he will never censor comments, nor should he. Hmpf. Just another day in the life of a poor Leafs fan. I guess this is what happens when there is nothing real good left to talk about.

Vin- no matter... After the season is over, please try to do one of these a month during the off season. By doing so, I am hoping that it will keep TFC off my radar.

[Boo Who?]

Oh Jeebus Harold Sainted Christmas. Enough of the caterwauling. My god, I've been in chicken coops with less clucking. ('K, maybe not. Never really been in a chicken coop. But you are acting like a bunch of old biddies.)

For whatever it's worth - I have zero problems with fans of other teams posting here, so long as they are respectful and interested in meaningful dialogue. And speaking of meaningful dialogue - there are still six games left to play here people. You can moan about people not paying attention to the stated purpose of this blog, but all the last page of posts appears to have covered is Habs fans, PK Subban and oh yeah, the Habs. If you want to talk Leafs, talk Leafs! Whenever you're ready...

[Robert]

@Princess Mononoke - I agree with everything you have said - except, I think in many cases the 'poster' was attempting to tease (a moderate word) Leaf Fans, but, as you can see from the preceding, even our supreme leader points out that there were a lot of 'haters' the morning after the loss to Detroit.
Rationally, there are always folks who will log on for nothing other than stirring the pot. That should be fun if there is some mental, verbal jousting.
I have great faith that Mr. Menon will edit anything that is beyond the bounds of good taste, racially unacceptable etc.
But pls realize that as a Leaf Fan, I want to discuss 'my team' with my fellow Leaf fans. I welcome outside observers, but I don't need people to come on this site and crap all over me because they don't agree with what I think. Or to shove it down my throat that the team stunk last night. I know that.

[TimB]

This is kind of a neat site.They have a link to Moe Green's guest post here,so they can't be all that bad.
http://wewantacup.com/

[Rooney]

I am not a strong supporter of censorship and think VM does a great of job letting free speech rule. I have been reading the archives and it is clear that most of the time this blog has kept the hate speech to a minimum. Most days when the hate gets bad it is because anti-Leaf hate gets it started.

Princess, I think you are incorrect in stating that the regular commentators here do not welcome intelligent comments from fans of other teams. I welcome it. I actually believe intelligent discourse between competing views is great way to learn and improve one's self. I have a huge problem, on the other hand, with bullies that believe that it is fun to kick someone when they are down. This is true for all of the new commentators that came here to rub it in after the Leafs last loss.

So this leads me to Bill. Bill its nice that you pick one comment from a person who has already admitted that he showed up yesterday just to throw darts. I have very little respect for people who spend their miserable existence talking sh$t and then try to make up for it with one meaningful comment. Sorry but then it would be okay for anyone to be an a$$hole 23 hours and 55 minutes a day and nice for the remaining 5 minutes. Sorry but that is why people do not want to hear from Harry.

To be clear, from what I can tell, all commentators, Leafs fans and other fans are given a proper ride for talking sh$t. Just ask certain confident Leaf fans whose names I ignore. Also, I noticed, that one of those I do not mention certainly has created some bad karma this year. He yapped on and on about Kadri and Kadri was sent back to the minors early this year. He yapped about Kessel and Kessel went into a slump. Lately he is was praising Price and the Habs and now they have gone into the tank. I kid you not, check the archives....

TimB, I am a visible minority and do not like PK's style, I must be a racist and self-hater.

So what do I do on Saturday when the Leafs have won both their games during the week, Buffalo has lost both of their back-to-back games, Carolina as won one game and the Habs win-less streak hits 5? NEVER SAY NEVER, GO LEAFS GO!!!

[Sensi-Bill]

[ Well the discussion seems to have turned to some people once again trying to insist that this blog is FOR LEAF FANS ONLY, despite the absence of bouncers, and such a sign, at the door. So I've kind of rushed Part II of my post on haters and trolls. ]
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PART II
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. . . As  for the nerve of them intruding in this so-called exclusive oasis of Leaf Nation discussion --- with far too much internal bickering to be termed a "love-in" --- as I've noted, much to the chagrin of some, the door is not only unlocked, but wide open.
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And the name of the blog is STILL "A Leaf Fan Blogs" --- NOT "A Blog For Leaf Fans ONLY."
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I know some people here make a note that they DON'T go to other blogs, or hockey sites that focus primarily on other teams, and post. But that's by choice, not due to some prohibition put in place by other blogs.
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And even if they don't, there are plenty of Leaf fans --- including some real nasty ones --- who do.
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And NO, I definitely DO NOT contend that such lamentable actions are exclusive in any way to Leaf fans. But I talk now of Leaf Trolls because I am primarily talking to Leaf fans.
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I have cited examples of the above, in the past.
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Including how one can easily read a hockey-related report or article that has nothing to do with the Leafs and find the Comments section flooded with nastiness from Leaf Trolls whose only purpose is to spread their silly venom.
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Yes, there are "fans" from other teams who are bad as well and offer similar Troll-like trash. And I don't support ANY of them, even any who proclaim themselves Sens fans.
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Perhaps it's that the major sports networks are all headquartered in Toronto or that the huge population in the GTA gives the Leafs such a large fan base, but I often get the impression that Leaf Trolls seem to outnumber any other group.
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I have been on live chats when two western hockey teams are playing and their fans are wondering what the heck all these Leaf Trolls are doing there disrupting discussion by spreading their hatred of anything non-Leafs.
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As I have noted before, I have been on TSN's site reading a Canadian Press report of a game between Ottawa and Montreal and had the Comments section overrun with Leaf Trolls looking for Sens and Hab fans they can ridicule and insult.
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If you've never encountered anything like this, I would respectfully suggest you lead a sheltered online life and don't fully realize how good you really have it with Vinay in charge of this blog.
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I think some here might be shocked at some of the absolute trash some people spread in the name of your team.
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By comparison, the visitors you get here, even the "worst" ones, can't hold a candle to the ones who give Leaf Nation such a bad name in so many places.
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But back to the bottom line. This is Vinay's blog. And only Vinay can declare it being For Leaf Fans Only. He hasn't done that and frankly, I don't expect he ever will.
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And frankly, I think some of those who seem so anxious to keep the discussion somewhat incestuous by limiting it to Leaf fans only, might be, even perhaps subconsciously, a little insecure about some of their Leaf-related opinions, including some of the more dubious achievements they sometimes seem to cling to with the quiet fervour sometimes associated with desperation.
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[ To be continued . . . ]

[Sensi-Bill]

@Billy
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"Princess - Vin's blog is titled A Leaf Fan's Blog"
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Billy, perhaps you should read the title of this blog again, perhaps paying a little more attention to what it actually says, and not what you might want it to say.
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It says: A Leaf Fan Blogs.
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Which means a Leaf fan (Vinay) writes this blog.
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Even you're interpretation --- A Leaf Fan's Blog --- might just as easily mean the blog OF a Leaf fan as a blog FOR a Leaf fan.
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But I won't disagree that this blog is intended primarily as a home for Leaf fans. I merely point out that neither the title nor the actual way it has developed make it the exclusive domain of Leaf fans.
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It is what it is. I'm not sure why people can't simply accept that.

[gettingcozywithsarkozy]

Princess: I took a look at your piece on PK also. I must say I am disappointed. Seems to me like the race card is the one played when there is no other defense. Subban is not the first hockey player to be judged too flashy or a smart mouth, nor will he be the last. I guess I am stereotyping him, but not because of his skin color, more so for being a hab. You see, PK has roots in Toronto and had he played for the Leafs instead of MTL I would have liked him more, not only because he would be a Leaf, but because by being a Leaf he wouldn't have picked up those nasty habits which have brought so many opponents and fans of the opposition to dislike him.

[TimB]

@Rooney.Thanks! My point exactly.This is when guilt ridden white people have a bit of a problem and then blacks who criticize blacks become race traitors.Once again this is political and I'm pretty sure VM would agree it has no place on the blog.

[Harry Anderson]

Ya know something? I am starting to feel a little comfortable here and I never thought that would happen. As I am writing this I can see a photo of myself that my late mother took of me when I was seven wearing my Leafs sweater. That's what we called them back then, no jerseys but who cares. I can remember the first time I was in Maple Leaf Gardens. It was a game between the Toronto Marlies led by a kid named Dale Tallon and I believe it was the Hamilton Red Wings. The place was packed and I felt so lucky to be sitting in the greens. My uncle took me as I was visiting Toronto. Two years later I got to back to The Gardens and this time I saw the Canadian Olympic team with some goalie named Ken Dryden play a game against the Czechs. This was about 1965 or 66. People I am not writing into this blog to backslide or anything like that. I have followed hockey since I can remember. ok so I was born in 1955. Nothing wrong with you guys cheering for your team, because I cheer for mine. But if someone has a valid point and though it may be critical of the team, its something to acknowledge To really see where your prospects stand get out and watch them. If you live in the GTA get out and watch the OHL teams that surround you. This is where you can see the stars of tomorrow do their thing. You have so much talent coming out of your area its really kind of crazy. I live in Kingston and support a team that is always at the bottom and it doesn't matter what they do it continues. Our problem here is ownership and a perceived lack of respect they convey. I remember as a teenager timekeeping minor hockey and watching The Killer play. I remember watching Kirk Muller score over 300 goals as a pee-wee and then play in the OHL at 15 before he was eligible for the OHL draft. So Leafs Nation get out there and support the many OHL teams you have within an hours drive. You will be very impressed with the play.What a feeling when you pick up the paper and see Steven Stamkos always near the top of the NHL scoring just like you said he would. That's where you are going to find out about how good your prospects are. To the Leaf Nation I say be your own scouts, learn more about the game, get out and support the OHL. You will be happy you did, and when you turn on the TV in a couple of years and see a superstar like........Doug Hamilton who plays for Niagara Falls, you will smile and feel like you have drafted well. And by the way in case you don't know PK's brother is a rookie goalie with the Belleville Bulls. Saw him twice early in the season and he looked out of place, nervous and just played fair. Saw him a couple weeks ago and it was like I was watching a new person. He is playing for a weak team this year, but trust me wait until next year. And he loves the Leafs. And there is another brother who is playing in MTHL and will be drafted into the OHL. So people I don't hate the Leafs. Sometimes I say things you don't want to hear. But I speak with the knowledge of watching some of these kids. Most don't make it, its just the way it is. But to the lucky ones that do, and even luckier ones that excel just hope that when its the Leafs turn to pick in the NHL draft they pick they guy you have been watching. Now that's exciting. Anyway I am going downstairs to watch the Hawks and the Wings. Should be good. Don't forget to get out to the OHL playoffs, you'll love it.

[Geoff Read]

Alright I'm back. And the response was predictable. I'm sorry, I'm being ridiculed by Penguin for going to coach my son's hockey team? Doesn't that strike you as just a little offside???

And please. I don't have any problem with people criticizing black players - there are lots of black athletes whom I think deserve nothing but our scorn. Lebron James come to mind. But I do think the level of criticism Subban has received has been entirely out of proportion to what he's deserved. The guy is an exuberant colourful personality and a helluva good young player - in other leagues he's the kind of player who'd be promoted by the league, but in the NHL for some reason he was public enemy #1 there for a while, and it was a bit absurd. And frankly, when it comes to Don Cherry in particular, there's plenty of reason to suspect that racism is a factor. This is a man who has openly scorned French-Canadian players and all Europeans as cowards etc. There is a demonstrated record of intolerance here.

[Harry Anderson]

Sorry Leaf nation I just was going back over my post and when I saw the Marlies and Hamilton Red Wings would have been 69 and the Canadian Olympic team a couple of years after that. Sorry about my years.

[Wandering Penguin]

Blah blah blah blah blah....

@Rooney: thank you immensely for picking up the gauntlet thrown to the floor by Mr. Huff'n'puff and saving me the trouble. "...then it would be okay for anyone to be an a$$hole 23 hours and 55 minutes a day and nice for the remaining 5 minutes. Sorry but that is why people do not want to hear from Harry." Bingo. 100% on the money.

Fans of all col...er, stripes: come and go as you please and say whatever the hell pops into your heads. But for the love of all that is holy, stop having such a pout-fest when you get called out on it. The blog has the word "LEAF" in the title - no matter how friggin' nitpicky you want to get about semantics. If you choose of your own volition to read a blog about the LEAFS - and in particular an UPBEAT blog about the LEAFS - and then you decide to chime in attacking the Leafs or their fans or defending your own team when they are belittled on a LEAF blog's comment section then you have no common sense. None. Zippo.

If I were to now head over to, say, a Senator blog and start saying things like "from a Leaf fan, I really feel your pain but at least you'll get a great draft pick and cheer up and nothing ever is as bad as it seems"... and someone else on that blog were to reply with something along the lines of Ottawa > Toronto.... well, there are many ways I would answer that comment but I can assure you I wouldn't make it out like they hurt my damn feelings.

It's called "know your audience". Trolls will be trolls and interlopers will be interlopers but if you're going to come in here and tell us that we're WRONG for being anti-Habs or anti-Sens or anti-Wings then either you're not a very dedicated fan of your own team or you're living in a fantasy land.

All intelligent hockey conversations will be welcomed with open arms. However, this is at the end of the day a blog about the LEAFS and it's on the site of a TORONTO-based newspaper. If we want to believe we're God's gift to hockey, then we're going to believe that. (FTR, I don't happen to subscribe to that point of view, but I can certainly see how it might be popular when rallying the troops.) If that troubles your delicate sensibilities, that's too bad - but stop WHINING about it. We don't swim in your toilet, etc etc etc.

And before "certain people" get their shorts in a knot, this is not aimed specifically at anyone here from any team. It's just what I believe to be good, sound judgment. If you wander in and most of your posts equate to: "Told you Leafs would lose hahahahahaha" and then you pop back in once more to pretend to "make nice", the ONE thing you do not deserve is to have your cause championed by ANYONE here. Most of the regulars commenting on here are a little too intelligent to be taken in by that sort of bipolar posting. MOST of the regulars.

Ok, maybe that last part was aimed at one or two people. Whaddyagonnado?

One last pot and kettle thing: I can assure you that there are far more instances of Sens fans rambling on and on about the Leafs' misfortunes than there ever are instances of the reverse. So before anyone starts throwing stones about fans co-opting another group's comment threads, perhaps a good, hard look in the mirror would be in order. I see threads on entirely different SPORTS being taken over by Leaf-haters for no particular reason than they just don't have anything else to talk about. But you know what? I don't frequent those boards because they are ridiculous. I do frequent this one because it's usually above that sort of crap and when it creeps in I am going to react. Strongly. And no, it's not "whining", it's defending the last good blog thread left.

And FTR I've been here a few weeks and I really have not seen the myriad posts "gloating here about the current state of the Ottawa franchise". I feel the Habs are fair game because they LEAD us in the standings, but if anyone thinks the Sens have been "kicked while they are down" on this board they must really lead a sheltered existence.

Ok, no game tonight of any consequence so I'm out of here - much like Mr. Anderson earlier. Sorry to hit and run....but I would like to calm down before bed on a non-game night. Have at it.

[Wandering Penguin]

Rereading my last post too late to catch it to edit it. I forgot one thing.

Ahem.

"Bill[y], perhaps you should read the title of this blog again, perhaps paying a little more attention to what it actually says, and not what you might want it to say.
It says: A LeafS Fan Blogs."

The ACTUAL name of this is "A LeafS Fan Blogs". LeafS. Plural.

Now, normally I wouldn't comment on such a small error, but I feel that if you're going to be a nit-picker yourself then you bloody well should be 100% sure you have the CORRECTION accurate. Especially when it seems to become the jumping-off point for the rest of your argument.

Just sayin' is all.

[Sensi-Bill]

@Rooney
.
"Bill its nice that you pick one comment from a person who has already admitted that he showed up yesterday just to throw darts. I have very little respect for people who spend their miserable existence talking sh$t and then try to make up for it with one meaningful comment. Sorry but then it would be okay for anyone to be an a$$hole 23 hours and 55 minutes a day and nice for the remaining 5 minutes. Sorry but that is why people do not want to hear from Harry."
.
Rooney, I'd still like to know what it was that Harry said that was so bad.
.
Again, with the free flow here of negative comments and insults aimed at the Sens and Habs, especially the ones celebrating their misfortunes, I don't find someone noting the Leafs shortcomings such a major crime or terrible example of kicking someone when they are down.
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And I'm sorry but I've been around here long enough to know the "talking sh$t" against the Sens and Habs is only sometimes provoked. Frankly, most of the time it is spouted here quite freely and so spontaneously, it seems to be instinctive with some people.
.
So I really would like some concrete examples of just how Harry acted like an a$$hole.

[Yogi23]

NOTHING IS OVER!

[Princess Mononoke]

Folks, if you think PK "picked up those habits" playing with the Habs, you have not followed our man's career for very long! He has been his own man for a long time, and you guys would absolutely worship him if he played for the Leafs, with the exact same personality and quirks he has right now....come on, folks, be honest! If you could love Tie Domi and Darcy Tucker, PK is 100 times the hockey player: come for the attitude, stay for the fine hockey and the amazing jets on this young guy.

But enough about us....

Leafs still have 6 good games to play, and I think you guys will have excitement right up till the last buzzer. Don't give up hope.

[hoofheartz]

To: Sensitive-Bill and others. Can there be any doubt at all that this is a Leaf Fan Blog. To simplify things I've cut and pasted this from the blog page "A Leafs Fan Blogs is written by one fan for other fans. Vinay Menon, a columnist at the Star, will cast an optimistic eye on the team during the 2010-11 season. Because hope springs eternal in Leafs Nation." Notice that it doesn't say that VM will cast an optimistic eye on all teams, but THE team which I'm sure we can agree is referring to the Leafs. Regardless of what the fools that claim to be Leaf fans spew at other blog sites I think it's pretty apparent that poster from Leaf Nation that post here are unlikely to post the kind of crap you allude to on other sites. We/I take exception to the trolls who post here, mostly after a loss, and we embrace those that enlighten us with their wit and hockey sense. On a final note, yes I did cheer for the Soviet hockey team against the stinking habs and I'm pretty sure the Cold War was even considered. I didn't like them then and I don't like them now, but that doesn't mean I can't or won't respect individual players. As I told Geoff earlier, if Subban played for the Leafs I would probably like him but I still wouldn't condone his behaviour on the ice.

[hoofheartz]

Even after editing I still missed "the Cold War was even considered" when it should have read "wasn't even considerd."

[TG77]

@Harry, I will take back my unnecessary comment from yesterday but to be fair, the posts from yesterday were considerably more condescending and accented with a number of immature 'hahaha's (on a side, I am a hardy supporter of the haha approach to expressing laughter versus LOL and ROFLMAO or whatever it is, so there, we agree on one thing!). Further your post was basically nonsensical mocking of the entire roster of Toronto teams for their futility etc versus the "support the OHL teams" points you raised today. I also loved going to OHL rinks and go to WHL games out here now, so now we have two things. I actually cheered for Belleville and got to see Spezza, Wellwood and Stajan as they developed.

Anyway, I truly like the way this blog has worked based on usually a very high level of maturity and some good, intellectual debate. This is different from other sites and it's the only blog I read so I also don't see the point of raising what other Leafs fans say on other boards to make a point here. If you read stupid people saying stupid things in the name of the maple leafs, well be glad they aren't here.

There also isn't a sarcastic font yet which I think might be a cause of some of the angry back and forth comments. I would also suggest it's not too different from what a friend told me the other day. If he says his wife talks too much, it's fine but if I said it, he would punch me in the face. So yeah, we get annoyed when the leafs play like crap and some people feel like disowning them (not me though, so if that makes me dumb, complacent, supportive of mediocrity in other people's eyes, i truly don't care) but it's our team so it doesn't get accepted as easily when a fan of an opposing team makes the same observations. It's strange but true and likely the reverse is true if/when people crap all over the Sens or Habs, if ppl here were so inclined to come onto those teams' sites.

Anyway, here is to the last 6 games. 12 pts up for grabs and I have to believe they can do this. I didn't count the Detroit game as a win anyway. I told you all about a little rally (and I mean little because only 2 of us walked in the rain for hours) back for team canada after they lost to the US. Simple motto then was 6 days, 4 games, 1 gold. This year, it's 6 games, 12 points, 1 goal. I really want them to put their best foot forward and run the table and we will see what happens.

[pinot grigio]

It is probably not pc to say it, but I would love Subban to play for the Leafs (he would be an enormous improvement over either Stan or Ollie) and I would also love to see Hurricane Staal as the center we desperately need. Neither is going to happen in this universe but I have been told there are many parallel ones.
I am much more pc when it comes to the preferred fan status of the people that contribute to this blog; it should be first and foremost for people that would like to discuss the TML. I can't stand the ones that come out of the woodwork to gloat and p*ss all over the Leafs (and us). I have no trouble with some of the people that are fans of other clubs but regularly contribute to this blog. I am thinking of someone like the princess who is not shy to defend her point of view but who has never once been nasty. I got fed up a while ago reading the endless harangues from Reed about Chara and 'the incident'. Now that he got that out of his system, I read his stuff with interest. I believe that if this blog attracts hockey fans that like to take part in a discussion that is elevated above the vulgar, stupid and inarticulate, it enriches the experience for all of us. Tomorrow night I am going to the game in Washington and I will enjoy the discussion I'l have with my friend who is an avid Caps fan. (and I will try to put the evil eye on the Hurricanes, just in case that will turn out to be necessary).

[Pyramid Power]

Note to all posters here. If you leave this blog on for a long long time as I did tonight while watching two excellent games between Detroit-Chicago and later Anaheim-Denver and go to post, the data will not be accepted.

Has happened to me a few times before. Wrote a very lengthy post replying to many people here and just thoughts in general, but a message popped up saying the data will not be accepted. It is a technical thing and I should have remembered from past experience.

Anyway, won't attempt to post that novella again.

GO LEAFS GO TONIGHT!

[Judith Fitzgerald]

Oh, well? C'mon, Leaf Nation. I think you just provided me with the real diff between our magnif teams: Your Nation loses faith and hope; we NEVER do, not even when we is eyeballin' an all-but-mathematical certainty. Have faith! It ain't over till the fat lady _____ (which rhymes with arts and arts belong in hockey; but, that's what Butch says, not moi. I have standards).

Lovely visiting and reading so much I cannot comment; I am simply speechlessly silenced and awed by this lovely community. Magical. Thank you for kind and welcoming words as well as the fact you allowed me to share this not so-certain-ending with you, anyway.

GO LEAFS GO!!1!™

[moe green]

Montreal hasn't even scored a goal in three games. They, like us, have six games remaining. If we win our next five and they lose four of their next five the last game of the season is sure gonna be fun. We may not get there but it isn't over just yet. Our target has changed. We have our sites on the Habs now.

[We BeLeaf]

Good morning all! Game day in Leafs Nation, the Sabres are in town tonight to avoid losing 3 games in a row to the Leafs. They have been just as hot as the Leafs and simply got it done over this past weekend. If the Leafs can control the cycle down low against the forecheck like they did in the past games, then I believe they should take this game as well.

Who here thinks that this should be one of the best games of the year?

[TPiddy]

@Penguin - They won't let MacArthur walk, but they'll happily go to arbitration with him. Sure he's put up career numbers but what does it say about him that he's cooled off right when the team needed it the most? Also, how can you possibly give him more than his linemates, Kulemin at 2.35 and Grabovski at 2.9? There's no way he's worth more.

Personally, I was hoping we would have traded him at the deadline. I'd love to see Burke get a top line winger and drop Lupul to second line... Lupul / Kulemin / Grabovski would be killer.... grab a top forward to play with Kessel and Kadri or Kessel and Colborne on that top line and then shore up the bottom of the defense corps and we're good to go.

[gettingcozywithsarkozy]

Moe: How dare you get back to discussing hockey and the remainder of the season when everyone on here (including myself) has been immersed in an intense conversation about which team or fanbase is better and why some players get "unfair" treatment from fans, opposition, and analysts?!??
.
Ha ha

[Ken Baumgartner]

What, it is not enough that we have to endure habs fans coming on here laughinhg at us for being a fan of the Leafs we have to read news atricles about it in the star now too. You wonder why I call them bums.

VM Replies: Uh oh. Now what's going on? What are you talking about?

[A True Leafs Fan]

Everyone watch as Miller gets pulled midway through the second because hes having an "Off night". I wonder if a devilishly handsome leaf fan has done anything to his water bottle?

VM Replies: You realize, of course, these comments may be used as evidence in the court trial.

[TPiddy]

@Pyramid - I beg to disagree with you about Kessel... Of his 29 goals.... 11 are power play goals, 6 are game winners. Other stats are hard to come by but I can easily recall several instances where he'd scored the game tying goal, first goal of the game, or assisted on the game tying / game winning goals.

He scored two game tying goals against Boston... he scored two against Montreal and assisted on two others including Bozak's game winner. He scored the OT winner against the Rangers... he assisted on both of Bozak's first two against the Sens on New Year's day... Kessel's been involved in the play and has scored some big goals for us. Not every goal is going to be clutch, but Kessel's been more than clutch enough for my liking, and I can't wait to see what he can do when he's not having to put up with Bozak on his line.

[leafland'r]

Vinay, you ask "What are you talking about?" in Ken's post. It may lie in Chloe Fedio's article in today's Star sports page.
A few gut reactions on my part: the father who refuses to put a gift Leaf sweater on his kid is only practicing indocrination. Teach the child that Canadians ( spelled with an 'a') have freedom of choice. The guy who operates the Detroit Eatry on the Danforth is not practicing good business sense. Likely, a lot of TML fans will be pasing his doorway to find a Greek restaurant with improved ambience and service.

VM Replies: Ah, yes. After Bomber's comment, I poked around and found the piece. Whatever, says I.
I live a 10-minute walk from the Detroit Eatery. I must have walked passed it 200 times in the past decade. Never once have I gone inside, so maybe your theory is correct.

[maxwelledison]

I too, am more than annoyed.

A female Star writer actually took the time to highlight other Torontonians. In an abysmal incendiary piece of non-pertinence to anything relevant in journalism, it's tone merely trashed-talked the Leafs Nation.

Report real news.
Don't create it.

[missideb]

Good Morning All,

@ Princess - In all honesty, I was a huge PK fan when he played for our Juniors. I made several comments, to my husband, that I would love to see PK in the blue and white. I do agree that he is a great young player but, at the end of the day, he is not a Leaf so, in my books, he is not important. lol
I jest, he will be a very exciting player to watch develop.

Did anyone listen to Burke's interview on 640 yesterday? Very good interview. He does believe that Lupul and Kessel are top line players, but Bozak is out of his element on top line. Also, Leaf organization believes that Reimer has proven to have the personality, temperment and work ethic to be their #1 next year, do not believe his is just a flash in the pan.

I was very excited when I heard him speak so highly of Reimer as I really want to see Reimer as our #1 going forward. It will be interesting to see who his back up will be next year. Although alot of fans want to see Gus given the opportunity, I really don't think he is in their long term plans. IMO, I don't think Gus is a good fit. Don't think he has the mental fortitude to be a goalie in Toronto. Don't get me wrong, he is talented and I believe he will be a good goalie, but not for the Leafs.

GO LEAFS GO!

[We BeLeaf]

@ missideb
While I did not listen to the whole interview, this is what I perceived Burke was inferring:
- that Bozak has no business being the centre for Kessel and Lupul
- that Reimer should be the number one starter without any contention

The offseason should prove to be interesting as Burke searches to add the player who will be the centreman for the future.

[missideb]

@ maxwell - Absolutely agree with you.

You would think that, in lieu of where the Leafs are in the standings and being a Toronto team, a Toronto newspaper would and should interview some Leaf fans rather than some Troll hoping for the Leafs' plane goes down. BS article

[missideb]

Sorry, last post should have read - should have interviewed Leaf fans rather than some Troll who is hoping that the Leafs' plane goes down.

After reading that article, I'm so annoyed and am not making much sense.

[missideb]

@ We BeLeaf - yes, it should be very interesting to see what pieces will be added.
I know some people are very high on Richards, but I can't help but wonder if he is too old, given how young our team is, and if he would even be willing to play in Toronto. Can't help but think Burke goes after someone younger - but who?

[Pyramid Power]

@TPiddy Was trying hard to get to that, but got my comment or novella blasted off by some kind of Star weirdness.

Kessel has done a decent job, but not what we would have expected. I need to keep in mind he is only 23.

Hensibill Who do you like for individual awards this year? Opened up that line of discussion yesterday,but you seem to like to fight your petty fights. What is wrong with you? You seem to have far far far too much time on your hands to squabble about nothing except what is on your petty peevish little agenda.. NOT to be continued.

[Geoff Read]

Bozak has struck me this season as potentially an ideal third-line centre - so it's interesting to hear that that's Burke's perspective as well.

Lupul's interesting - I wouldn't be so quick to pronounce him top 6 material. He's definitely got the skills, yet three organizations have given up on him before. I'm not sure that a 2-month audition at the end of a non-playoff season is sufficient evidence on which to decide he can be a key part of the future.

Reimer: he definitely has the right mentality to be a starting goalie in the NHL. Very Carey Price-like actually - relaxed, composed etc. It'll be interesting to see if he can continue to play at such a high level over a longer period. If he can than the Leafs have a future Vezina Trophy winner on their hands.

Gustavsson is a RFA this summer, is he not? I think all signs point to the Leafs letting him walk away, I'm sorry to say. No one in the organization seems to have any confidence in the guy.

[Michael C. Nemirsky]

I live in Edmonton, and being a die hard leaf fan has its moments of annoyance from the people and media here. But, I cannot believe that a well respected paper that I enjoy and appreciate so much, especially VM's wonderful blog, could allow a column so anti-leaf as Chloe Fedio's. In the past two days, a lot of comments with racial overtones about P.K. Subban have been discussed on this blog. That article is far more offensive than any comments made by the fine people who contribute to this blog (yes, even you scab fans and boring Bill). Here is hoping that The Detroit Eatery does not get more business than usual. You know what they say, bad publicity is better than no publicity. Also, I agree with most people, P.K. is a good hockey player, but grow up. Show some respect and then maybe, just maybe, you could earn some.

[Geoff Read]

TSN has a poll today, "Which rookie has had the most impact on his team?"

If he'd played all season, I'd say Reimer hands down. But given that he didn't and the Leafs will miss the playoffs, I'd actually say Subban. I don't think Subban should win the Calder as the best rookie (maybe Skinner as some have suggested here), but given all the injuries Montreal has had on the back end without Subban's emergence as a legitimate top four D-man the Habs would be out of the playoff race by now. He kills penalties, plays the power play, and plays against the other team's best forwards. He also, as we've been discussing, has an ability to throw the opposing team off their game as an agitator.

The other guy I'd consider is another D-man - John Carlson. With Green out for large parts of the season and a shadow of his former self when in the lineup, Carlson's been huge for the Caps. The reason Subban would get my vote over Calrson is that Washington's other blueliners besides Green have been healthy, and without Carlson, I still think the Capitals would be safely in the playoffs whereas the Habs sans Subban would be on the outside looking in.

I know people will scream that this is just my Habs' partisanship talking, but I think it's a pretty solid argument. And I would encourage people who disagree with me to refute the argument with a substantive counterargument, rather than childish insults and gratuitous Montreal-bashing.

[Wandering Penguin]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/mapleleafs/article/963149--some-torontonians-laugh-at-leafs-nation#article

Next shocking article to come by the same "writer": "Some motorists watch out for cyclists".

I particularly liked the part where the idiot says, "I hope their plane crashes tonight"...and it was printed verbatim by the Star.

I'm guessing it must be hard for Vinay to reconcile his unabashed love of the Leafs with an employer who quite obviously and obnoxiously detests them, but even having done that to see a quote like that allowed to pass as "investigative journalism" boggles my mind. DEATH wishes, now? Really?

See you all on the next thread. (I haven't been keeping up on this one, I only came in to post that link because there's not been a game-day thread yet.)I'm off to the Detroit Eatery on the Danforth for lunch. Anyone want to join me for some skunky beer?

[Robert]

@Michael C. Chloe Fedio is feeding off the success of this blog. No question about it. There is no other reason for her column. Mark Zwolinski same thing in his reference to Leaf's fans losing faith.
The Star sells papers, and attracts readers to the internet. Anyone who reads Damien C knows that most of this stuff is done to irritate, not to inform. A little like Don Cherry, say anything and they will come back to see what you say next time.
As for PK Subban watched him in the World's and thought he was great. I detest his stick work and his cheap shots, but, the SOB is one hell of a player. He has speed, handles the puck very well and may be the best D man Montreal has - having said all that, I still want someone to take him behind the net and teach him some manners!
The other thing is, he has become the go to guy for the press, somewhat the same in Toronto, when a pure freshman like Kadri is asked his opinion. I think this sort of thing goes to their heads. Can't do much about that.

[A True Leafs Fan]

@ Geoff Read

"And I would encourage people who disagree with me to refute the argument with a substantive counterargument, rather than childish insults and gratuitous Montreal-bashing"

Under the childish insults and gratuitous Montreal-bashing catagory here is my rebuttal.

Scabs suck huge hairy lemons and their fans suck. Subban is a goof, and no one cares about your Pro Habs statements.

I want to make a bet, if the leafs lose the April 9th game against the Scabs. I will change my name to Habs are the best and make a comment on how amazing your team is. and if the Leafs win. then you must change your name to Habs Suck Lemons. then you must praise the leafs being the greatest Franchise ever. If you are to afraid to take my challenge I understand. you are a scabs fan after all

[Elizabeth S. Brinton]

I love this blog!
My neighbors are having some work done on their house. They just draped an enormous royal blue tarp across the north side. The wind is blowing and this mass of Maple Leaf blue is billowing in front of my study window.
We go on. Always...

Love,
Elizabeth

VM Replies: Elizabeth, always a pleasure to hear from you.

[missideb]

The stars are starting to align, folks.

According to Henny, Lashoff in - Lebda out
Reimer vs. Miller - Although Miller has been playing great, me thinks he is due for a stinker.

GO YOU MAGNIFICENT LEAF BASTARDS GO!! I Believe

[Boo Who?]

If you find that article linked to above upsetting, you are sheltered pups indeed! Try reading anything to do with the Leafs in the Vancouver media (or really any other market outside of Toronto). They may not take the trouble to print death wishes against the Leafs, but they are hardly objective or flattering. I can't even see highlights of Leafs games on TV half the time, it's like the team doesn't exist. The folks that churn out the articles for TSN can be pretty snark filled too. They have at least one nameless staff writer that just drips with scorn during recaps of Leafs games. C'est la vie!

As for Chloe - let's not shoot the messenger here. The article is basically a string of quotes, it's not as though she took much of a stance on things. Given her style, I'd be willing to bet she was writing essays in university not too long ago, she sounds young. And it can't be denied that she's doing her job, which is to drive traffic to the site. Not everyone can do it with the same skill and panache that Vinay has; writers like him are rare.

[TG77]

I would go with Cam Fowler being the rookie that has had the most impact. He has a few more points than Subban (but his +/- is considerably worse). That being said, he essentially has been asked to replace Niedermayer who is a hell of a lot better than any d-man Subban is replacing and the Ducks had several veteran regulars who were hurt this year too. He has 19 points on the powerplay which would be nice for a team like the Leafs to have. I think he should have gone 2nd overall given he plays not entirely too different from the guy the Bruins traded a 1st-rounder and a prospect to the Leafs for.

[Alecia]

Hmm… so if the Leafs lose tonight and the Habs lose tonight, seems like the Habs with their 87 points then go into an 8th place tie?

Do my eyes deceive me? Is this so? Could it be so? Are the mighty falling?

[Robert]

@missideb: 'The stars are starting to align, folks' Thank goodness. I posted a piece this morning which must have been caught in the vortex surrounding the ACC, that I had spent considerable time aligning the planets for this evening.
Nice to know it seems to be working.

Just an observation to some of the comments above, I don't believe we need a first line centre, I believe we need a first line. Presently, there is no one on the big club that fits that bill. I think some of the D are becoming starters, but, we don't have a forward yet, who is first line calibre. And I hate to say it, but, for me the jury will be out for quite a while on Nazem Kadri. I know he thinks he's a first liner, but he has yet to prove it.

[Geoff Read]

TG77- Good point - Fowler deserves consideration. Personally, I'd rule him out because of that horrific +/-, but he should be part of the conversation. I'm going to disagree with you in one regard - in his last year in Anaheim Niedermayer was a shadow of his former self (the same shadow we saw the Olympics who almost cost us the Gold Medal with a turnover in front of his own net). I think Markov is a better defenseman than that version of Niedermayer.

Robert - couldn't agree more on Kadri.

[palbo]

Wow Robert...Are you saying that Kessel is not a first-liner (1:34pm)? The guy that Burke has said several times is 'elite'... the guy about which Burke has said several times he would do the deal again in a heart-beat?? Did I understand you right?? Lucy 'splain..
If that's what you're saying, what does that say about Burke in your mind?