Of Bosh and Bonner and all things interesting

So they lose in San Antonio, only by 10, and don’t look wretched doing it. And the tone of the comments and the e-mails becomes exponentially nicer and more calm. Figure that lasts until the next “bad” loss, which could be as early as Monday, I guess. But for at least a day, it’s nice to see rationality rather than hysteria.

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Action: This whole “Bosh can’t take us to the promised land/next level/championship.”

Reaction: It is, quite frankly, crap.

Who can?

Kobe? Hasn’t.

LeBron? Hasn’t.

Shaq? Hasn’t.

Garnett? Didn’t. Duncan? Not without Robinson or Parker or Ginobili.

Wade? Didn’t without Shaq.

Dirk? Nope.

Pierce? Sorry.

Kidd? Nope.

Jordan? Hell, he didn’t get to the playoffs ‘til he got some help around him.’

No one player, no matter who he is, “carries” a team to a championship. Is Bosh good enough to be the leading scorer and top rebounder on a team that gets a favourable matchup and wins a playoff series or two? Given the right teammates, absolutely.

There is no doubt that right now, he’s not going as well as he has, or as well as he can. He’s not attacking the basket as often and his seems to be a tad slower reacting to balls than he was in the first week of the season. Maybe he’s got other stuff on his mind, maybe he’s a bit hurt, maybe he’s a bit worn down mentally from having his coach fired, his team playing poorly, from realizing his team isn’t quite as good as many thought.

But is he off a sudden no good? No. He’s still a 20-10 guy and will be. He’s still the best player on this team by a wide margin.

And trading a team’s best player, by a wide margin, makes so little sense it’s laughable. What they’ve got to do is get him different teammates, or get the teammates he’s got now playing better. You don’t strengthen a roster by taking its best player away. That’s silly.

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Action: They play hard for 48 minutes

Reaction: Do it again

Sure, it’s all well and good that they worked hard and, for the most part, played well for most of the 48 minutes against the Spurs.

If anyone could guarantee me, or any of you, that they’ll do the same thing on Monday, then I’d be impressed. But with this group, who knows? And that’s why a good effort against a good team should bring more yawns and skepticism than it does optimism and promise.

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Here’s a question:

Q: Is Chris Bosh and Jay Triano losing material of what to say post-game or what?

Gary J, Toronto

A: Yes, they are. Just like the grunts are running out of questions to ask and it’s taking more creativity every night to elicit usable quotes.

I remember covering every single game of a 17-game losing streak early in the dreadful 16-66 season of 1997-98 and about 10 games in, we’d walk into the locker room, look at guys like Damon or Popeye Jones and simply shrug. They had nothing to say, we had nothing to ask. I bet it’s getting to that point out there with ‘em now and I’m not exactly looking forward to meeting them in Sacramento to tell you the truth. Makes the job a wee bit harder.

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I’ve had a couple of serious e-mails (well, as serious as these things can be) suggesting the Bulls might trade Derrick Rose for Bosh in some wild package since the salaries aren’t close. And one that wonders if they could trade Bosh for Chris Paul.

And that leads me to believe that the hallucinogen industry is thriving.

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Action: Jake Voskuhl plays.

Reaction: And out-scores both Jamario Moon and Andrea Bargnani.

I’m almost speechless.

Seriously, isn’t that ridiculous?

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What’d they say in San Antonio? Check it out here.

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“That’s the game. When you make shots, things seem to come a bit more easily.”

Sam Mitchell after every game?

Nope, Gregg Popovich last night.

Maybe all you people who killed Sam or made fun of him for bringing out that cliché a lot might want to take note.

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Action: Bonner looks good.

Reaction: Good for him.

Matt Bonner is, as you all know, a good guy, funny, doesn’t take himself too seriously, a big fan favourite. And, because more than a few of you are revisionist historians, I’m not surprised at all at the number of “what was Bryan doing getting rid of him” e-mails that have arrived in the last 10 hours or so.

All I want is proof that one single, solitary person out there thought – almost 2 1-2 years ago – that Matt Bonner was a starting NBA centre? Come on, someone show me that and I’ll apologize to that person profusely.

Sometimes, guys evolve. If you think the Raptors could have waited to find out if he did, you’re mistaken.

That said, I’m just glad Matt’s going well. The kid deserves it.

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Quickie from the mail:

Q: Season ends today, Raptors don't make the playoffs. Do they resign Moon?

Andrew D, Toronto

A: I doubt it.

Luckily, the season ends in four months so they don’t have to decide.

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List time.

Karl Malone was tough, Kevin Garnett is intense, Dirk Nowitzki’s a find fadaway shooter, Rasheed Wallace is uniquely talented, Kevin McHale would punish people in the post, Charles Barkley was under-sized and tremendously effective. I never saw Bob Pettit play but they tell me he was scary good.

None, however, are better power forwards than Tim Duncan.

In the list of best-ever at that position, here’s how they’re ranked in this corner:

Duncan, Malone, Garnett (originally omitted 'cause I'm a dope and deleted it by mistake), Barkley, McHale, Pettit, Nowitzki, Wallace.

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Back to Bonner:

Good Matt Bonner story and if I've told it before, I'm sorry.

Remember when Matt was here and just about every time Sam would yell at him he'd lift his arms and sort of shrug with a "who? Me?" look on his face.

Stumpy, bless his little pucks soul, and I tell Sam that Matt's so popular with the masses than they're going to put up a statue of him outside the arena in that then-famous pose.

Sam's quasi-amused

It's much later in that season, Stumpy and I are sitting watching a game (I presume they were getting drilled because I don't think we were paying much attention) when Sam screams at Matt, the arms go up, the shoulders are shrugged, Matt's got that bewildered look on his face Sam turns to us, looks at us and says:

"Better get that statue ready!"

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Action: Spurs biding their time

Reaction: Do not sleep on them.

Interesting to hear the TV guys Saturday night talking about the Spurs just trying to get in shape and rhythm for the playoffs and not being overly concerned where they are in the standings now or where they’ll be in the next few months.

And considering they’re a game and a half out of second in the West despite missing Manu Ginobili and Parker with injuries for extended periods already, I can certainly make the case that we might have a Lakers-Spurs western final. And the Spurs, to my mind, are tougher, mentally and physically and might be able to win that one.

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And a final one from the mail for today:

Q: Hi I was wondering about the changes in the practice sessions that the Raptors are now having. The players seem awfully fatigued and I am thinking it might have to do with overworking the players with new plays and more running. Has it been increased? And is this a good idea when you want the players to be at top condition before the game?

Kevin S, Toronto

A: Considering they haven’t really had many practice sessions in weeks, you sure can’t pin it on that. Because of the bear of a schedule they’ve had since Sam got fired, I think they’ve had a grand total of four practices and two of them were extended video session because they came after back-to-backs. There is no way in the world they are being “over-worked.”

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Not sure what’s in store for Monday in this little nook. If there’s a good mailbag to pull together this afternoon or this evening, I think I will ‘cause they’re off in L.A. and I see shoveling and then couch time in my future. So if you’ve got questions – and questions, not rants – I’d be glad to see ‘em, it’ll give me something to do tonight because I believe Super Son is hoping to have an urchin or two over for a sleepover and I’ll go hide somewhere and work.

Enjoy a nice Sunday.

Comments

[Richard Y]

"Talent can win games, but teamwork wins championships" - Michael Jordan.

[Richard Y]

After hearing that Matt Bonner might be interested in playing for Team Canada, I was wondering if there were others that truly liked living in Canada who would be great to have on the team (assuming they were willing to not play for their home country).

Blogger's note: That's a very short list. Of none that I can think of.

[Dennis]

So not losing badly is some sort of moral victory for this team? Has it really come to this Doug? This is the NBA were talking about. It's all about winning. If losing by 10 to the Spurs is seen as a positive then something is very, very wrong.

[DerekG]

Doug since we do not have the pieces to get better does it make since to become a seller and start to rebuild? It seems to me the Raptors run the risk of being a middling, treadmill team, that never improves because it always picks in the middle, and has an ownership group that refuses to spend over the cap. The Leafs finally bit the bullet and my sense is Toronto fans are much happier with them than they are with the Raptors.

[rosco]

It's Time for a Roster Change, Hear me Out this Team is lacking Toughness and Grit. How about a proposed Deal with Chicago. Chicago sends Andres Nocioni + Joakim Noah to Toronto - Toronto Sends Andrea Bargnani + Expiring Anthony Parker + Second round pick to Match Up Salaries. The Raptors Need a Consistent player at the 3spot. Nocioni brings Toughness/Grit/Plays D and it a consistent scorer. Noah will bring us Energy off the Bench/Toughness/Rebounding,Especially on the Offensive Side. The Raptors are desperate right now and for me the Bargnani project is over. Im sick of hearing about potential,he's in a slump,he's this,he's that. Let's move on into another direction. Players from Chicago are playing in a Transition style as Well,they should mesh Well in with Triano's vision. Your Thoughts, cause this Team is Soft and needs Help. Colangelo needs to make a move cause things are Horrible.

[dave]

Merry Christmas Doug. Thanks for all your hard work. As it seems BC isn't afraid to take risk, my annoying trade question is; Could you give a list of names that would be risky (therefor available) but might cure what ails us?

Blogger's note: Nope, 'cause I have no clue who might be available. And it's silly to guess. If, during conversations with GMs, scouts, execs and others I find out who's out there, I'll report it. To make stuff up isn't my style.

[Archie gillespie]

Hey Doug, with the odd and unfortunate configuration of away games the next week what are the plans for the team? Stay in California or is there a window for some players to get back to their respective homes for family. Speaking of which hopefully some good team samaritan invites Nathan to a family Christmas dinner...I'm sure he won't eat much! Season's Greeting to you and the Super Family Doug.

Blogger's note; I'm going to move this over to the mail bag for the morning.

[Andrew]

You mentioned Garnett along with the others, but seemed to omit him in the actual list:

Duncan, Malone, Barkley, McHale, Pettit, Nowitzki, Wallace.

I assume this was just an oversight.
For my money:

Duncan, Malone, Garnett, McHale, Barkley, Pettit, Wallace, Nowitzki

Blogger's note: Yeah, it was an oversight, have gone in to fix it.

[Chris D]

Sorry Doug, but Jordan made the playoffs every year except his dreaded Wizards stint. So nice try to defend Bosh, but slow down when throwing out comparisons.

[Jeff]

I heard somewhere that the Raps were in talks with the Bulls. Would there be any chance we could end up getting Luol Deng? He is very talented and we have seen his potential a couple years ago against Bosh but has been flying under the radar since.

[sean]

That's more like it. More importantly is Bosh's constructive comments about his performance, taking on himself rather than rattle it off. If they could play like how they played yesterday and with JO's aggressiveness (22-10 solid performance and presence in the paint), Raps could take at least take two games in this trip.

[vc]

"Skills wins points, Heart wins games"

a quote my high school team used throughout our basketball season. perhaps the raps can take a look at this, it might help

[mary]

hey doug,
a couple days ago you said the Raps probably wouldn't be interested in Diaw because he has $27 million left on his contract. makes sense -- except you said they have interest in nocioni, who has $28.5 million remaining on his contract. plus diaw is actually playing well right now in charlotte while nocioni continues to suck. diaw is younger and can create for himself and others a little bit, while nocioni is yet another three-point chucker.

so what gives?

Blogger's note: They like, or have liked in the past when I've asked specifically, Nocioni better. And you're wrong --- or wherever you got the contracts numbers from is wrong, I should say. The 2012-13 year of Nocioni's contract is a team option and the deal actually goes down in value annually after this year. Total owed is after this year is $20 million not counting that team option.

[Poppa Vlazo]

You have Dirk and Rasheed Wallace ranked ahead of Garnet? You must have accidentally left KG off that list.

Blogger's note: Fixed

[Steve Gosse]

Doug, any chance the wizards could give up Caron or Jamison for a little less nowadays?
(as in, future picks plus a package of players)

Either one of those guys could help this team.. but I'm thinking that Bargnani would probably have to be involved you think?..

[Ro]

Does Bosh comment on why he's taking all those threes lately? Really it just looks like he doesn't trust anyone else by that point.

[Andy]

You missed Garnett on the list.

[Arvind]

Hey Doug, I recently wrote a poem that describes the raps pretty well.
Take a look.
The Raptor Way
Dec. 08
In the first quarter the team is ready
To shoot and pass and score.
The game starts, they do just that.
The crowd loves it; they want more.

In the second quarter the lead only builds,
The team is playing great.
But then the lead starts to shrink,
The first sign of their fate

In the third quarter the team hangs tough
And keeps their lead at five.
But the fourth quarter is coming up
That’s where other teams thrive.

The fourth quarter is a terrible sight
The players look old and grey.
The other team charges wins by 10
Because that’s the Raptor Way.

[derek]

I have now officially moved to the blue side.
See you next year doug and commentors.

[Tree]

So this is what the season has been reduced to? Being happy they "only" lost by 10? A loss is a loss - period. A double digit loss is not something that makes me feel any better about this team - and frankly, I can't find any reason for optimism. However, I guess it's a sign of just how truly wretched this team has become so quickly that people can feel better about a double-digit loss. Watching this game, I didn't feel at any point in the 4th that they had a chance to pull it out, so it is another bad loss. The only way I could be encouraged by last night is if they had a bona fide chance to win in the last minute of play before it got away.

As far as I'm concerned, this was a bad loss because they kept up a recent trend: specifically, they roll over and play dead for 1 quarter (the 2nd) and it costs them a real shot at the game. This is the MO of this team it seems, playing good for 3/4 quarters before losing the game in 12 minutes (and it doesn't seem to matter which quarter is the stinker, they never recover).

[Gerald]

By the way, could we find the guy who began using the term "blow it up" in regard to sports teams and turn him into a human pinata?

Exactly why does a team have to be "blown up" EVER? Any truly observant sports fan will know that "blowing a team up" is a ridiculous notion that does not lead to success.

Cliches like this drive me crazy. It is a pitiful substitute for actual thoughtfulness.

It is right up there with "hey, let's trade the guy on our team who qualifies as a top-5 scorer and top-5 big man - the kind of guy who teams TRY TO OBTAIN so that they can build around him - 'cause that will make our team better for sure, and hey we can get into the lottery and maybe with some luck get a player that we can build around, like, like, heck maybe someone like Chris Bosh!!!"

[Dagomar Degroot]

Of course one player can't take a team to a championship. That much should be obvious. However, a franchise centrepiece SHOULD be able to will/lead a team to wins - in the regular season and playoffs - and to play with intensity most of the time. For the team to have championship aspirations, the franchise centrepiece should also be a top-10 or, ideally, top-5 player in the league. Only the Detroit Pistons won a championship without such a player, and even then Billups has always been underrated.

It's entirely legitimate to ask whether Bosh is or ever will be a genuine franchise player. In his sixth season Bosh is still clearly head and shoulders below fellow draft picks Dwyane Wade and Lebron James. He's a fantastic player - no doubt - but he's neither a leader nor clutch performer nor acceptable defender (and that's not covering his obsession with the perimeter jumper, or psychological frailty). Is Bosh, perhaps, better suited to a secondary role on a good team? The idea is not that far-fetched, is it? And it's certainly shared by scouts across the league.

The possibility that Bosh isn't and might never be a franchise player does not mean the Raptors should trade him. Looking around the league, there aren't many teams that would offer real value in return, and even then it's only pennies to the dollar. Players like Bosh are very, very rarely traded, and for good reason. But if Bosh is more of a secondary star the team's current predicament becomes a bit more explicable. And it certainly changes the sort of questions we can ask about the roster.

[Gerald]

Good article, Doug. I am not sure if you realize it, but there are an awful lot of Raptor fans who, in all honesty, have a knowledge of the game that is an inch deep, although they like to believe otherwise. As such, they quite often like to spout observations (with the requisite degree of certitude, of course) that they have heard from people whom they consider to be knowledgeable (like yourself - who you are). They attach that degree of certitude to it to make it sound like they came up with the observation on their own.

For example, I am quite amused by the number of posters here who refer fondly to "Oak", following your lead, if you know what I mean. I am pretty convinced they did not have a clue whether he was a useful player or not, but they like to come off like they could appreciate his subtle strengths, despite having no idea whatsoever.

The point in the other comments about Moon illustrates another example. While Moon is certainly a flawed player, one of his flaws is DEFINITELY not that he jacks up too many shots. He is one of the least prolific wingmen in that regard in the league, in fact. Judging by some of the comments in these pages, one would think he is a shooting machine. He actually rarely shoots 3-pointers, and when he does he makes them at a decent rate, yet he is vilified by readers due to a few off-the-cuff comments that you have made in the past about Sam being mad at him shooting early in the clock a few times. I am sure you didn't intend for that to define Moon as a player, but it does for fans who are looking around for that bit of "knowledge" on which to hang their metaphorical hat.

I apologize for the digression. Hopefully, your comments today will serve as some similar fodder for the sheep to calm down a bit, as I agree with you that a Boah trade would be positively mental, unless it was for a somewhat commensurate talent (ie Bosh for Wade).

[Amr]

Doug,

Outside of Bosh, Calderon, and O'Neal, what Raptors retain value amongst the other NBA GMs?

I've ramped up the ESPN trade machine to try to come up with realistic trade scenarios, but I honestly can't figure out who would be a tradeable asset? Parker comes close, but I can't really anyone else that other GMs would covet...

[lukasz skrzeczkowski]

how import do you think championships are when rating great players? Is wallace really better then KG?

Blogger's note: They're important; not the only thing but one of the big ones