And it just gets curiouser and curiouser

I wish I could tell you exactly what this means but everyone I'd want to talk to off the record is either in an airplane to Atlanta (like I should be, except for another Air Canada delay) or unavailable so I'll just put it out there and the conspiracy theorists can have a field day.

Shawn Marion's got the night off for the Miami Heat just like Jermaine O'Neal had the day off for the Raptors.

What's it mean?

Maybe nothing. Maybe everything.

I guess only Bryan Colangelo and Pat Riley know and neither of them are all that interested in sharing their innermost trade thoughts with me.

I do know the Raptors officials I traded emails with the minute the Marion news got to me still say O'Neal is listed as "probable" for Monday's game with the Hawks and he's on the plane to Atlanta with the rest of the team.

Down in Oklahoma City, the Heat say Marion was a late scratch because of groin injury he aggravated Saturday in Houston.

Now, all that is probably true and the various people I talked to today still say there is no imminent deal. But I figure this gives you something to think about for the next little while.

 Now, if only Air Canada would co-operate and let me get to Atlanta at a decent hour, I'll be able to get up bright and early tomorrow and start working on the trade talks again.

Comments

[Joe]

Doug, your the man! Thanks for the update!

[Reg]

What about this Kapono flu thing? Is it just a coincidence or is it possible he could be getting shipped somewhere too?

Blogger's note: I have not heard a single peep from anyone connected with this team or any other about Kapono. Sometimes, the flu is the flu

[Mike M.]

That's what I was curious about when I saw the box score at half and noticed that JO hadn't played yet. He said he was feeling fine after the Indy game and you would assume he'd at least get some minutes to bang with Shaq.

Interesting. New U2 single tomorrow and maybe a new Raptor? For once I'll be excited to wake up on a Monday morning.

[David]

I agree with Joe. Thanks Doug!

[JH]

Thanks Doug. Great info.

I wonder why there is no rumours of Iverson for Jermaine. Clearly Iverson is not working out for Detroit. We could use his expiring contract,even if he isnt a good fit on our team.

Detroit could go big again and have a hell of a shot blocking front court in Jermaine and Rasheed.

Makes sense from where I'm sitting.

[Josh]

Was the Marion for O'Neal trade the one that you heard about a couple days ago but wouldnt mention because you couldnt confirm it with another source?

Blogger's note: It took a bit longer than I thought to get multiple sources,yes

[Henry]

Pat Riley told the Miami Herald pre-game that no deal is done and that it is natural this time of year that people are "putting the cart before the horse". Whatever that means. He denied that he is waiting to see if Jermaine is healthy. However, he does not deny that something is in the works, which is good news.

Blogger's note: He couldn't deny it, it is in the works.

[Erik R]

Sorry to be pesimistic but the raptors season is over, its a major disapointment...this trade is good for them. but its made me think about why a GM would take Jermaine O`neal? I know he was very talented and strong but players that are 30 years old and have been injured so they have not played for 2 years? Like c`mon...at first i thought ya this could work bosh and O`neal...but O`Neal is just damaged goods..

Right now we have no idea what Marion will do for the Raptors. Its not going to be difficult for him to be more productive then say Jamario Moon.

Lastly, was BC drunk when he signed Kapono for 24 million?

But anyways theres always next year...so Go raptors go

[Tim W.]

As I said in Doug's article on the main page, an O'Neal for Marion deal isn't bad, but it doesn't really help much this season. While it's true that Marion would finally give the Raptors a real starting SF, he's not he SF they need. He doesn't break down the opposing team's defense and create his own shot. Unless they can expect he re-sign with the Raptors and they get a SG in the draft who can do those things, I don't see how getting Marion will help all that much. In order for him to be at his best, he needs to play with players who he can play off of and get out and run. Even with him, the Raptors are not much of a running team. And if he leaves, the Raptors traded away Ford for cap room.

What Marion does bring is a veteran presence who knows how to win, great rebounding from the SF position and good defense. I don't know whether that really makes up for losing O'Neal's presence down low, however.

[Uncle Zeke]

Colangelo has to go before he makes another trade that handicaps the Raptors even further... The glaring deficiencies that you and others are now noting on the team existed before the season- even though some chose the be blinded by the fraud that is JO. Now that he's been exposed why should Colangelo get another kick at the can- that was his "all-in" move and it backfired. The team is now much worse off than before BC got here... It's obvious that he's incapable of making a sound decision without his daddy overseeing things...

Now he wants to bring back one of his dud signing in Marcus Banks- this is a bust that will be sitting on the Raptors cap while Bosh is out finding a new team... Who's next Quentin Richardson, Stephon Marbury- the guy has zero creativity and is just recycling past-their-prime pieces from Phoenix where he had a glimmer of success. Watch for the 4-yr. max deal to Steve Nash in 2 years... time for the Raptors to move on...

Blogger's note: You've got to get things right before you rip: Colangelo did not sign Marcus Banks to that deal.

[Uncle Zeke]

and guess who Miami will be targetting in 2 years with JO's expiring deal? Not that Bosh would ever want to play with Wade and Beasley in Miami beach...

[Ben Tardiff]

Doug, any comments about the salary issues with the trade.

JO for Marion works straight up..Banks does NOT have to be included for cap purposes because of the new 20% rule...Any chance the raps can just get a min player instead, or does Miami need to insist on Banks being involved?

Blogger's note: Banks is in the deal as it's structured

[Tim]

Can anyone confirm that Marion actually left the last heat game with a groin injury or are they saying he finished the game without a problem and now has a groin injury? Sounds awfully suspicious to me...

Can you confirm that O'Neal actually got on that team plane to Atlanta?

Blogger's note: O'Neal got on the plane. Saw him in the airport with the team with my own eyes.

[matt]

Interesting things happening between Marion and O'neal. Something has to give with this Raptors squad sooner or later. The emergence of Bargniani is promising, but the boat is sinking quickly and holding onto potential is getting extremely tiring. I appreciate your work Doug, I always read your PG blogs.

Sincerely, disgruntled Raptors fan.

[Richard Spackman]

"Sometimes, the flu is the flu"

And sometimes it's a conspiratory theory.

[Jonathan]

Good morning! I know you hate speculation, but if you were GM, and all things being equal (forget salaries, years, what you'd have to give in return, etc.), who would you pick first, second and third for your team from Shawn Marion, Lamar Odom and Josh Howard and why? =D

Blogger's note: Odom, Howard, Marion

[Erc]

Gonna let out a few more of those bats that have been circling behind my eyeballs.
If the Marion trade reaches consummation, it might help IF it motivates the rest of the team to give a consistent EFFORT over the last half of the season.
When you watch them match firepower yesterday with the Suns and re-call the last Celtic game, the last Magic game and a few others, you realize -- THIS IS NOT A BAD TEAM. Not the Celtics, or the Lakers or the Cavs but not as stinkingly abysmal as they've played for most of the season.
This is a good enough team to make the playoffs and if they catch a break or two, maybe win a series or two, if they play as hard against the bad teams and the mediocre teams like themselves as they occasionally prime themselves to play in losing efforts against the good teams or in the last quarter against the bad teams.
Secondly, welcome to our world Doug. Sometimes we just say dumb things. After Parker played well in his first point guard gig, you warned us not to think he's the second coming of John Stockton and not to get used to him playing there, cause it wasn't going to happen often. WHY NOT?
Nobody's suggesting he's Magic, but after yesterday's performance isn't there a chance he COULD be the answer to our back-up PG problem? He can bring some defence, which might be a pretty good change-of-pace combo to go with Jose's playmaking and shooting. To dismiss it out of hand, without giving it a real chance to succeed or fail, isn't smardt.
Finally, Delfino. Haven't seen this much angst since we were waiting for Roko. Hey, I liked Delfino. He'd drive some. Played some defence and when his shot was falling, he was GOOD. BUT, there were games when he kind of disappeared like every other wing player on this team.
The main reason I hated to see him go, was he was a decent point guard back-up. If Parker can fill that roll, and so far, it looks like he can -- Delfino never was quite the player that Parker is. He would be an upgrade over a lot of our players. It would be nice to see him back but Delfino isn't going to solve the problems that this team has. HE DIDN'T THE FIRST TIME AROUND. End of rant. Thanks.

[jaime]

Hi Doug, again I ask... why does JMOON have the green light with 3pointers? why isn't the coaching staff insisting on him driving the paint??

Blogger's note: How do you know he does (he doens't) and how do you know they don't (they do).

[Johnny Bravo]

Wow! I'm amazed how quicky BC has turned into a bum in this town. Uncle Zeke - that was just a ridiculously uneducated comment.
That being said - yes the O'Neal trade was a bad move. But if Bryan has proved anything its that he isn't afraid to admit a mistake and then fix it.
If Miami agrees to this move, the Raps are going to the playoffs...period. The Matrix is EXACTLY what this team needs. A wing player who plays like a power forward - defense, rebounding and doesnt need plays run for him. The added plus is we lose JO and his "shadow" and Bargs hopefully keeps lighting it up.

[Matt]

Hey Doug,

You might have a hard time finding Sam in Altana... (see title)

Zing!

Blogger's note: Fixed. Thanks

[GM]

How do we know Moon has a green light with the coaching staff and that they don't insist he drive to the rim? Because they continue to allow him to shoot. Simple as that. If your words aren't reaching a player, then sitting him is the only way to teach him. But what I suspect is that they tell all the players that if you have a good shot, take it. And that's as it should be. The problem is that Moon can always say it was a good shot because he was open. I'm not sure how you fix that because you can't tell him never to shoot. He's not a bad shooter. It's his timing that's horrible.

[Tim W.]

Uncle Zeke, how has it that O'Neal has been "exposed as a fraud"? Has it been discovered that he hasn't averaged 13.6 ppg, 7.2 rpg and 1.8 bpg? Did someone find out that he wasn't playing great defense down low when we all thought he was? Did he pay off the stats guy to give him those 5 double doubles in the month of October. Sure, he's been hurt the last month, but I really don't understand how that exposes him as a fraud. If that's the case then I guess Jose is one, too, and so are Carlos Boozer and Elton Brand.

I'm willing to give O'Neal a little leeway on sitting out games due to pain because the guy has had knee problems in the past and he knows his body better than anyone. Fans whine and complain when players don't play through pain, but then they jump all over them when they do and end up hurting themselves more (see Grant Hill, among others). I've played on sprained ankles, with broken and dislocated fingers, even with a fractured orbit bone. And I don't get paid. One thing I won't do it play with knee pain because that's one thing you don't mess with. Especially if you've had knee problems in the past, which I have. The pain is your body trying to tell you something. The smart people listen. I'd rather O'Neal sit out a month than try to play through it and ruin his knee. That's not smart.

And I've heard a lot of people talk about how the O'Neal trade was a `bad move', but I haven't actually heard anyone actually back up that statement. No one can say that he hasn't played well. In October and November he and Bosh were the only one's scoring consistently for the Raptors. Despite playing 13 less games than Bargnani, and about the same amount of minutes per game, O'Neal has 5 more double doubles. The team has about the same record with Bargnani starting at center as with ONeal. Either way the team doesn't have enough talent.

And all those that regret trading Ford away a) have short memories and b) have not been following the Pacers this year. It appears that Colangelo should have tried to trade Ford for a swingman, but at the time, Bargnani was coming off a very disappointing season in which he started at center but didn't perform and the Raptors had just been destroyed in the playoffs by Dwight Howard, exposing the Raptors lack of a legitimate center. Besides, I'm still not convinced that a 3 point shooting, weak rebounding 7 footer is the answer at center.