Of tanking and 10-days and the top power forwards

Since I didn’t do practice yesterday -- my man Perk capably handled the distinct lack of news in his own inimitable fashion – there’s not a lot I can offer about the specifics of the big game tonight.

But that doesn’t mean there isn’t stuff I can’t rile you up with.

How about an anti-tanking screed?

So …

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How about mentioning that is far more important for teams to play playoff games rather than watch them because the intensity cannot be matched and it’s far better to have experience than not?

How about suggesting you try to win each game because that’s at the very heart of competition, and all this talk about losing to set up the future means nothing because the future, for one, is not guaranteed, and losing begets losing. Tank jobs teach teams how to tank.

How about simply remembering that stuff happens. I guarantee you a year ago today, when the Atlanta Hawks were 11 games below .500 and had no chance, there were fans there who wanted them to tank the rest of the season, and I guarantee you a lot of those same fans were crazed watching Game 7 of the first round of the playoffs. And I also guarantee you a lot of those same fans are today think the experience that young team gained last year has been invaluable in their rise to No. 4 in the East this year.

Now, none of this means I think these guys can make some miraculous run to the playoffs because I don’t believe they can, they’ve shown me nothing over the course of the season to suggest something will all of a sudden click. But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try.

I tell kids I coach in Little League all the time that the greatest thing they can do is respect the game. It was here long before them and will be around long after they’re gone and tanking is the ultimate sign of disrespect to a great sport.

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You know what I wish I could check?

Of the number of people who are absolutely convinced that the Raptors should lose every game the rest of the way to ensure a better draft pick, how many of them have mercilessly ripped the team’s scouting staff and drafting decisions over the past few years?

But then again, there’s not much accountability around these parts.

TORONTO STAR FILE PHOTO

Art Long and Vince Carter, possibly discussing the pros and cons of horse punching, in this 2003 file photo.

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Pops is here and it’s 10-day contract time and I know he’s not here on a 10-day but work with me here, there’s not a lot going on with the lads.

(As a quick aside, I hear it's Independence Day in Ghana today so congratulations are in order)

So I will present to you the most obscure 10-day guys, in one man’s opinion, ever to appear in a game for the Raptors.

Now, they’ve had some obscure dudes through here but two factors before you could make this list: You had arrive on a 10-day and appear in at least one game: Ta-da!

Bob McCann

One game, 1998.

Dan O’Sullivan

Four games, 1996

Damone Brown

Five games, 1997

Art Long

Seven games, 2003

Antonio Lang

Seven games, 2000.

I know there were others (Sweet Pea Daniels comes quickly to mind, as does Jimmy Oliver) and I’m sure I’ve done this list before but it’s a new year.

Couple of stories, though.

Art Long spent his first day here denying the story that he’d punched a Cincinnati police horse four times during a traffic stop that also involved his college teammate Danny Fortson. Some program, that Bearcat program was under Bob Huggins.

Antonio Lang, who I remember being a very fine young man and quite a good player, who probably should have made the team out of training camp. But they decided they couldn’t keep either of the invitees who stuck around ‘til that day.

That would been Lang, who could play, and Percy Miller, who was a novelty act.

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And, finally, let’s do all-time great power forwards to finish off our week. If you’re looking for all Raptor stuff, go to the little scroll button down there on your right.

Another tough one, very tough as a matter of fact. How much does the present influence the thinking? How much does the distant past? Well, a lot, I think.

I’m sure there are going to be a few names left off this list that’ll irk some, or make some eyebrows raise but that’s what we’re supposed to do, right? Encourage dialogue. Nice, clean, well thought out dialogue, that is.

Talk away

Tim Duncan

He’s got it all in every facet of the game. Boring? Only if you’re bored by true greatness.

Bob Pettit

Mind-boggling career numbers (26 and 16), oldtimers swear to his greatness. ‘Nuff for me.

Karl Malone

Yes, Stockton’s a factor but the guy was seemingly indestructible. And very good.

Elvin Hayes

Can you make the argument he was Malone before Malone was Malone?

Kevin Garnett

He’s not covering himself with glory with his Boston antics but no denying the talent.

Yes, I know. I left off Charles Barkley, who would win The Best 6-5 Power Player Of All-time Award and that was tough. But it was no tougher than not having Kevin McHale on this list, or Dave DeBusschere. It was easy, though, to leave off Dirk Nowitzki and Chris Webber, two modern-era names that came to mind. For about a second, that is.

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Check out Ira from today.

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Oh yeah, here’s another reason you don’t give up.

Let’s say Bill, a devout fan who doesn’t have a lot of disposable income, saves and saves and saves because he wants to see one game from a great seat. He looks at the schedule and decides he and his son should see Indiana on a Sunday afternoon to start the March break.

He buys his tickets, buys his over-priced beer and expensive yet cheap souvenirs and when he gets there, he sees Chris Bosh and Jose Calderon, both healthy enough to play, in suits on the bench instead of in uniform on the court.

The team has decided that it’s not going to play its best players even for 20 minutes because “losing is good.”

Think Bill ever comes back? I wouldn’t.

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Because it wasn’t on Evil TNS2 and that meant no interference from Uber-Evil Rogers, I was able to catch the Mavs-Hornets last night.

And there’s Sean Marks, first big off the New Orleans bench, running and dunking and looking great. Which is good to see because he’s a guy and if he wasn’t playing well, it’d cause some angst back home.

How do I know? Back in the day he was here, the NBA still have its archaic “injured list” where you had to stash excess bodies for a minimum of five games. I don’t know how many games were lost to “upper respiratory ailments” or “left knee tendinitis” or “left arm contusions” which was NBA speak for “we need to stash these guys so let’s make up something plausible.”

Well, this kind of knowledge wasn’t as commonplace in New Zealand as it was in North America so every time they’d put Marks on the list with some trumped up illness, the media relations department would get all kinds of calls from New Zealand wondering how bad things were with their favourite son.

It actually happened with every foreign-born player until the league came to its senses and changed the injured list to the inactive list.

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Comments

[BJ]

I think you missed another pretty good Malone on your list, Moses.
3 time MVP, finals MVP, 4 times 1st team all nba, 1st team all nba defensive team, HOF, named one of the 50 greatest...
Should at least be worth a mention, no?

[Takashi]

Doug i am not in to tanking mode right now but you are making it look like a bad thing that does not help your future.Look at Miami they are the model of how you tank.They tank like no one else last year and got the second pick in the draft, now they are back in the playoffs and doing very good.

And who cares if a Bill saves money to go to a game and Bosh and Jose dont play because of tanking, i am sure Bill would give up those tickets to have Ricky Rubio or James Harden on the Raps next year over watching 2 of the main guys play on a game that will not mean anything.I am sure if we get one of those guys Bill would save his little money again and buy another ticket.

I dont think the Raps shoud tank because there still a chance of making the playoffs but if the season keeps going like it has, then is a must do.

[Dennis]

Surely the name Moses Malone had to be in the conversation of greatest power forwards. He'd be in my top 3 without question.

[DIK]

How can you defend Tim Duncan as a power forward? He is 7 feet tall and 260+. He played next to David Robinson, a good centre in his own rite sure. If he was drafted to any other team he would have been there centre. He has played centre for his team since Rasho left. And most games for a good stretch he is the only "big", or at least the biggest "big" on the floor. The Red Rocket is no centre. So who is paying you guys to keep calling Duncan a forward?

[Matt]

Other good reasons not to tank include it kills player morale and if there was a reason for a free agent to never want to come to Toronto, it would be because the raps are perceived to be in the business of making money and not winning. They are pretty much there now in the minds of a few fans (who have seemed to confuse 'spending over the cap' with 'dedicated to winning' but really, how did spending over the cap work out for the Knicks). I know at least if they end the season strong the raps have a hope of resigning Marion and convincing Bosh that he really does want to stay in Toronto for another five or six years.

[Kyron]

Wow! How hard was it to leave off Sir Charles? Glad you included Bob Pettit but I think the ring is the only thing that puts Garnett in the Top 5 over Barkley.

[Alex]

I dont get all this talk of tanking......ummmm hellooooo the Raptors are doing just fine "competing" and "playing hard" to guarantee a brutal record on their own TYVM.
I personally think that if they started some bench players those guys would play with a fire under their arses and actually win a few games.

Anyways the lottery is just that so having the worst record rarely equates to the first pick....the last time was Cleveland and Lebron.

We just gotta cross out fingers and let BC work his draft day mojo cus he does have a great draft record (Nash, Marion, Stoudamire, Finley, Stephen Jackson, Barbosa in a trade)

[Jason]

Doug,
That description of Bill is dead on and it is a perfect reference to my current situation.
Personally, I have a 2+ hour drive each way in good traffic and normally spend an entire day just to see an Raps game. My budget also allows me to only go to one live game. I always pick a later game in the season and one that normally is an important game against a East opponent.
My game this year is next Friday against Detroit. I will spend close to $1000 which is a huge expense for my family, so if I go to that game and see all the good players in suits, I'll lose my mind. One could argue that is more about the family day out for me, which is true, but for that kind of expense, I believe I have a right to see the same team and players whether they are in the playoffs or not.
A team should always try to win as that’s what it’s all about

[John]

Miami is not better this year because they tanked last year and drafted Beasley. They are better this year because Dwayne Wade is healthy and playing about 100 times better then he did last year. His injuries last year were also largely why they were so awful.

[Kelsie]

Garnett over Barkley? Garnett could win another one this year and I still wouldn't put him over Charles Barkley! It's not a big deal but I've had the chance to stand next to Sir Charles and it's amazing when you consider what he did at his size. I swear he was barely 6'4!

Plus, he has been one of the few players in the league to confront Shaq physically (when he chucked the ball in his head and a big melee ensued, lol) so thats gotta count for a little something extra no?

I like Garnett as well but I don't think he had as much individual influence over the game as Charles did.

[dave]

re Tim Duncan isnt a forward because he is too tall. He sees himself this way. If you were to think of players who have a game worth emulating the b. fundimental should be on your list. If you wanted to emulate a center or a power forward isnt Tim higher on your p.f. list. I get the 7ft hurdle but that is his game not a media conspiracy.

[John]

The Sean Marks Story: Anyone else here watch "Flight of the Conchords"? Doesn't that sound like a job for Murray at the New Zealand consulate?

And Rubio was mentioned in a comment above - he is a 2010 draft eligible player, correct? I don't think there's really anyone worth tanking for this year, and the type of players we need (2's & 3's) there are often some very good ones still available in the 8-14 slots.

[HC]

Tanking wouldn't even help our draft position. We'd have to lose significantly more games than Golden State and Minny in order to improve position to 7th or 6th. That's not going to happen. So quit calling for the tank people, you're just spinning your wheels.

[Pat]

Bill seems like a smart guy. At this point in the season, he would probably take the few hundred dollars that he saved and saved and saved for and spend it elsewhere.

[Jack]

Speaking of watching a game on a tight budget, Rick Reilly had this article recently:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3950727

Season ticket holders trying to unload theirs because they can't afford to go to the games anymore.

[dan]

hey Doug,
Going along with your ongoing saga on why the raptors shouldn't tank the season. What about the fact that these guys need to play together to develop on court chemistry and learn how to play with each other. We have a free pass to see if Marion works and unless Rob Babcock somehow became GM again, why would we pass up this opportunity to see if he fits with this team.

[WSG]

I always felt a bit confused when folks would talk about ‘tanking’ like it was a perfectly normal and acceptable thing to do. To me, tanking in checkers or tennis or what-have-you is not that far from cheating … but even more so perhaps, when fans are paying to see games PLAYED. Nice to see it addressed here today, with eloquence.

[Marc M]

Malone was much more dominant than McHale imo.

re: Bosh. Back in 06/07, and at times last year, certain fans were remarking that Bosh might have diminishing returns as he got older (in other words, had reached his potential.)

Contrary to that belief, he has actually gotten better. Better passing, better recognition of defenses geared at stopping him, better attacking the basket.

If you base a players progress strictly on statistical output then clearly Bosh has hit his ceiling. If you follow his development in detail and look at the intangibles he is clearly getting better - with even more room to grow. Cutting him loose would be a major mistake. Here's hoping BC doesnt make ANOTHER premature move.

[ade]

best pf not on the list...Shawn Kemp he changed the game not even Karl Malone could handle him in his prime (ie before the kids and the weight. like many people from that era if jordan was no around he would have a ring

[David]

Doug,

Wasn't damone brown in 2003? During the injury plagued season along with art long?

[dc]

Doug,
i was thoroughly impressed with your blog about respecting the game. i think you are likely a great coach because you are teaching the most important lesson any young person can learn about sport. it's about committing to and enjoying something bigger than just the individual or the team.
i don't think the raptors should ever tank, nor do they ever. i remember the night they were down over 20 points in the fourth and rallied for the win, i think alvin williams was key in leading that victory (can you recall the date and opponent, biggest 4th quarter comeback in franchise history?).
My point is anything can happen, but most importantly these men are professionals and as a professional you always give the same determined effort 100% of the time. It's your A-game or nothing when you are a pro regardless of the time of year or standings.

That being said, your example of "joe-raptor-pack" spending his hard earned money only to see chris bosh and jose on the bench. Every fan knows that injury or illness could always keep your favourite player out of the line-up on any given night. the hard-working fans who save up for games (and i consider myself one) don't go for a guarantee of a starting line-up of high-flying stars, rather for the prospect of seeing the sport itself played at it's highest level. that happens when teams are evenly matched and playing with energy. the smallest little league game can be as exciting as the biggest nba game (not exactly, but try to get my point). that excitement, which is found in all great moments of sport, big and small, doesn't depend so much on individual stars' presence and effort(though they love to bask in the glory) as much to the moment and situation.

'Joe raptor-pack' could never get his full-value going to see the raps take on indiana 3/4 of the way through the season when both teams are in a position to go nowhere for the rest of the season. it's just the circumstances for both teams. missing bosh, or granger, calderon or ford; it would take some eager anticipation away certainly. but the nature of sport is that anything can happen, maybe AP goes off for 70 (it could happen...). Roko gets his first triple double! These are things that can never be predicted (or expected). it's why buying sports tickets is almost like gambling on the hope you will be amazed. paying for a ticket to watch your home team lose? never fun to pay $100 or more to see that in person. but unless you live in Cleavland it's going to happen more than once.
still, i think your son and his teammates are fortunate to have your sagely and sometimes snarky guidance on and off the court.

[Tim W.]

I'd probably put Barkley over Garnett, but it's debateable. Tough leaving McHale off, but I don't k or he'd replace. And whether or not Duncan can be argued to be a PF or not, Moses Malone definitely was not. The only position I ever saw him play was center.

Those who thinking tanking is a good idea might want to check out the lottery records of those teams that tanked.

[Thomas]

Moses Malone should be in the center conversation, not the power forward one. And though Tim Duncan probably fills every necessary role for a center, he's been called a power forward his entire career so he might as well be listed as one--he's also one of the 10 best players ever in my opinion.

I thought that your example of Bill and his son was excellent. Tanking isn't a guarantee of anything--I've seen teams tank and end up with the sixth pick, and teams that played the season out end up with the first. I watch every Raptor game because I hope that I'm going to see a win, not hope that my team loses to increase their statistical probability of acquiring a high pick.

[Patrick]

Hi Doug,

Just wondering if you think that Pops will be the first big off the bench tonight (notwithstanding the minutes at PF that Marion and Graham usually play)?

Thanks!
Blogger's note: The guy hasn't had a single practice, can't see him playing much, if at all

[Doug]

even the thought of tanking is irreprehensible people talk about with the Leafs and the raps...these are professional players, they have been winners for the most part of their whole careers, from high school ball, college etc...so to ask them to intentionally lose or appear to be by sitting individuals is wrong in so many ways...as you say you don't mess with the integrity of the game fans, coaches, organization, players....not even a mind-set in my book, and if I was commissioner and i even suspected tanking there would be heavy fines, loss of pick etc...look at how Selig by not respecting the game, by not acting during this whole steroid age has sullied the name of baseball..it's like a oath the commissioner, and any G.M., player should take, an unwritten oath, never on PURPOSE disrespect the game and it's history...