Some post, post-mortem items to think about

Quite the day yesterday.

Bryan gives us all kinds of fodder – not huge news but lots to digest – and then the Bulls and Celtics give us one for the ages.

Long day, but quite the day.

Things have to slow down a bit now, don’t they? Next up is for Bryan and Jay to chat – that could happen as early as today – and we’ll see where we go from there news-wise.

Other than that, guess it’s hanging out here for the live in-game blogs (we’re going to do Houston-Portland tonight at 10 for the night owls) and waiting to see if we can unearth some news.

We’ll be trying. But until then, have at it:

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Okay, what did we really learn yesterday in what was quite the BC session. It went longer than usual, he was a bit more combative than he’s been in a while, more revealing his personal thoughts and quite interesting in many regards.

But …

There was nothing new on Bosh (will talk extension, doesn’t think it’ll happen, won’t trade him just because).

There was nothing new on Jay (I figure middle of next week we get the call to the news conference; hopefully you read about it here first).

There was nothing new on Shawn (it’ll be about money and Marion wants lots of it).

So, what was new?

Well, the one thing that caught my ear was an obvious desire to get a second first-round pick in this draft, odd given the general perception that this isn’t a particularly good draft but understandable that it’ll give them another young player with “contract certainty” going into very uncertain economic times. He sounds like he’ll be rather, um, raptorial in his pursuit of a second pick.

And, the other thing was that he’s obviously taken a shot across the bow at Our Friend Roko with repeatedly pointed remarks about the failings behind Jose. I honestly think Roko comes back far better than when he left and he’ll turn into a good NBA point guard but I’m not entirely sure Bryan shares that opinion.

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This was as good a non-statement statement as maybe I’ve ever heard.

Because of the agreement between FIBA and the NBA, Bryan can’t say publicly that he doesn’t want Jose to play for Spain this year and he can’t – and won’t divulge much of the substance of their conversation about it.

Except that maybe he did:

“I'm advising him as an individual who has many years of pro basketball to play, with two years to go here and maybe beyond what's here, maybe he needs to approach it a little bit differently. Maybe he's at that age, he'll be 28 in September (where) that's something he's got to think about, but I can't make that decision for him.”

And then it was brought up that Jose said he wouldn’t play if the Raptors asked him not to, which was when Bryan turned defendant.

“And I'm going to have to plead the fifth.”

End result: No way Jose plays in the European championships, I don’t think.

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I’m trying to think of a three-day period in recent NBA history that’s had more great games by more point guards in one short time frame.

Rajon Rondo’s triple-double last night was a gem; Tony Parker’s night may have salvaged the series for the Spurs and, while I didn’t see it all, Chauncey’s Game 1 was an absolute gem. And we haven’t even started talking about Derrick Rose and how good that kid’s looked in his first two playoff games. And Chris Paul’s not in the discussion because his team got drilled so badly.

But if this is isn’t the greatest point guard era in NBA history, I’m not sure what was.

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Did you hear one of the names that popped up during the session? Rasho.

And since Bryan brought him up – as an example of the kind of good locker room guy teams need – I can see them having some interest in him this summer. But I also heard Bryan suggest Patrick O’Bryant will be back (there’s some misinformation that his contract for next year is fully guaranteed, which it won’t be until July 1; the Raps can waive him before then and save $300,000, although that seems unlikely.

So, you’ll have Bosh, Bargnani, Hump, O’Bryant, Jawai with contracts and if they bring Rasho back, guess who’s the odd man out?

Yep, if I’m Pops Mensah-Bonsu, I’m not sure I’d be signing any long-term leases around these parts.

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TORONTO STAR FILE PHOTO

When the toughness issue comes up we usually run this photo.

Perhaps the most interesting thing Bryan admitted was the distinct lack of toughness on the roster, as I alluded to in this morning’s paper.

And that got a guy thinking, just who has ever been “tough” around these parts.

Hence, a list:

Oak.

By far the toughest Raptor ever, he just didn’t give a crap. And was like Bryan said, a nice guy off the court, a wee bit maniacal on it.

Popeye Jones

Not sure how many remember, but here’s a guy who got in people’s faces on the boards every single night.

Garbo

The dude just had “it.”

Reggie Slater

Guy was really about 6-5 but he’d battle anyone.

Antonio Davis

He's a late add because he had moments where he wasn't as tough as he needed to be but he should be on the list.

And you know what? I’m not sure I can think of more to round out the list much further. Pretty damning indictment, no?

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I’m turning K.C. Johnson into one of the best-read grunts in Toronto, even though he works in Chicago. But you’ve got to admit, his stuff off the Bulls-Celtics has been consistently good. Like this one from last night’s gem. And in the pursuit of fairness, check out what Frank wrote in today's Boston Globe.

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Speaking of gems, it’s generally considered that the better teams are out west, right? So why is is that the best games so far – by a wide, wide, wide margin – have been in the East?

A quick run through the dozen games so far and I absolutely cannot think of a really memorable moment from a Western Conference game.

Sure, there’ve been some great performances (Chauncey, Tony Parker last night, Yao in Game 1 for Houston) but for games? Nothing comes even close to either of the Celtics-Bulls games or the Orlando-Philly opener.

And there’s no reason to think that’s not going to continue.

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Speaking of the West, having watched Puerto Rico play about a zillion international games, at no time did I ever think J.J. Barea would be this good in the NBA. Funny how a kid can get a chance and make the most of it for a week or two. And funny how all that time he played alongside Carlos Arroyo, he was going to be as good or better. Not many saw that coming.

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Comments

[AT]

Doug,
Instead of coming up with "old lists", why not come up with new lists. If the subject here is toughness, who are some of the available tough guys out there that might be a good fit here.

I was surprised that Roko was the scapegoat, of all back up positions, he may have been the most consistent this year.

[Dennis]

Well, the writing is on the wall for Bosh getting traded this summer. Colangelo will give him a max deal contract offer, Bosh will decline and the trade winds will swirl. It'll probably end up being a good thing though IMO. Better to not have the 2010 free agent circus/distraction in town the whole year.

[fg]

I cant beleive he is going to leave Jay as head Coach, BC will fail next. Lets all ask ourselves is he the best coach out there? and the answer is clearly NO. TO build a sports team you have to hire the best outside coach, just like in soccer were the foreign coach pushes your team and development further. Triano did not push the team further them Smitch.

[Kerry]

Roko aside, I guess this means that BC isn't thrilled with AP as a backup point guard.

Blogger's note: As a full-time role? Maybe not but he did say he thought he could do the job a bit

[Peter]

Is it just me or has the entire league gone "soft" since the 90's and before? If you were to come up with a top 5 list of current NBA tough guys, they'd have trouble matching the toughness of any top 5 from previous decades, (90's, 80's, etc.) Am I wrong? Hasn't the game changed a little bit, maybe away from some of the toughness?

[Omar]

While I agree that "toughness" in Raps history is sorely lacking, I think you have to add Antonio Davis to your list. And Kevin Willis. Two tough dudes, as I recall.

Blogger's note: Went in an added AD after a second thought.

[Rory]

Was Kevin Willis not tough? Maybe my memory is poor...

[Takashi]

Is Peter Vecsey at it again?

It's in stone Raptors president Bryan Colangelo plans to meet with Messina during the European Final Four in Berlin (Barcelona vs. Cska, and Olympiacos vs. Panathinaikos) beginning May 1.

That's official.

I would love for BC to sign Messina, but almost everything Peter Vecsey writes this days is something he made up the night before.

Any truth to this rummor?

[Jim Rootham]

The west teams are not better than the east teams. The east won the matchup this year, did they not?

The west team records look better than the east records because of the number of really bad western teams.

[Takashi]

Alvin Williams was also very tough. Why is he not on your list?

[Dan]

No Alvin Williams on the tough list?
And I think it's fair to say that Oak is a bit maniacal off the court too.

[Pharaoh]

I agreed with a lot of the things that Bryan said yesterday (especially about the lack of toughness), but what's up with singling out Roko? If anyone should take responsibility for the season, it should be the team's leaders - i.e. Bosh and Calderon. Why is everyone so afraid of admitting that the real problem wasn't the back-up point guard -- it was the starting point guard! Sorry, but Calderon was weak on D all season and his offensive play was uneven at best. Yes, we all know he was injured, but if that was the case we shouldn't have been playing him for 40 minutes a night. If Bryan really wants to inject some toughness into this team, he should start by calling out and challenging the team's leaders instead of blaming a back-up rookie.

[Patrick]

Morning Doug,

I'd like to add Alvin Williams' name to the "toughness" list. Played hard and played through injuries (even when he shouldn't have).

As for yesterday's press conference, it certainly left me thinking that, if nothing else, it should be an interesting off-season.

That being said, since BC mentioned the possibility of getting a second 1st round pick, what do you think that they'll be targeting with said pick?

a) a specific player;
b) a particular position (back-up PG or swingman); or
c) just the best player available at that spot?

Thanks!

Blogger's note: He can't be "targetting" anyone; no one knows (a) the order of the draft or (b) the players who'll be in it.

[Mike]

While he wasn't here vey long I would put Jermaine O'Neal on the list of toughest Raptors. He showed in his limted time here that he wasn't afraid to give a hard foul or get in someones face.

[SY]

I like Rasho. But BC should not offer him more than a Bi-Annual (If we do not have the Bi-Annual, we should offer him Minimum Contract).

Still, I think we should go for a Camby or Nocioni to bring some toughness to our team.

Banks + Graham (Expiring Contract) + Future 2nd Round for Nocioni. (Works well for the Kings if they want to slash Salary)

or;

Kapono + Graham (Expiring Contract) + Future 2nd Round for Camby. (It's the Clippers so anything can happen)

If $$ is all Marion wants then most likely he'll be a Raptors next year - I think 7 million is a fair salary for him. So, sign and trade is not a viable option for most teams because most of them want to slash salary rather than incurring a long-term contract. For those teams which have the CAP, not sure they would want to offer him 7 million in this economic climate.

-SY

[Harut S.]

Does BC see no interest in keeping Pops? He'd make a much better 3rd or 4th big man than O'Bryant, no? The energy he brings is Huge plus in man ways

[LeeZ]

In the Celtics-Bulls game last night (surely one for the ages), you saw an incredible amount of toughness on both sides. Not just physically, but mentally as well. And I got to thinking: in a game like that, how would the Raps have fared? And my answer: miserably. I think José has that toughness, and Bosh in spurts. Marion too, but he's likely gone. Roko might have it, but his talent and decision making lags so far behind that it renders his toughness moot. The only player I see as possessing the physical toughness, and one day the mental toughness, is Pops, a diamond in the rough (very, very rough, admittedly). This is a guy they need to keep if they truly want to get tougher. I adore Rasho, but please. His time is up.

[sara]

Heard lots of talk about CB4 extension , Marion re-signing, AP , Delfino but not one single note on Bargnani's expiring contract. I wonder if Colangelo would look to move him this summer , while his value is high , to address the team's toughness .

Blogger's note: Well, for one, his contarct's not expiring; and, two, there is no way in the world they'll even contemplate moving him.

[Dave]

Doug,
In BC's press conference yesterday, he made mention of several teams that he believes/knows will have interest in signing Marion this summer. Also, he specifically emphasized a sign-and-trade as being potentially the most mutually beneficial option for both the team and player. Do you have any estimation as to which teams BC thinks will be eyeing the Matrix this summer? Armchair Raps GMs everywhere need something to fantasize about...

Blogger's note: No, no one's shared that information yet

[Allen]

Ever heard of John Wall? He's had 5 years of highschool and I think he might've been eligible for this years draft, but is opting for a year of college. I know you don't like draft talk but this is more of a general question. Who would you rather have Rubio or Wall?

And JO was tough wasn't he?

Blogger's note: I wouldn't know John Wall if he was sitting next to me at the bar so I can't comment at the moment.

[Tom L]

Doug, will you update us on Delfino's progress in Moscow? One site has him averaging ~24 min a game and ~11 pts/game. Any reason he's not getting more floor time?

Blogger's note: His European season is over; not sure about the Russian domestic league; he was hurt a bit (shoulder) and that probably limited his time and effectiveness

[Eric]

I don't think the Raptors necessarily lack tough. I say the Raptors' LEADERS lack tough, and have always. I would call Jermaine O'Neal tough. Delfino and Rasho were tough. Chris Childs, Alvin Williams, Muggsy Bogues had tough. And yet they were never on tough teams- why? In my opinion, teams are not defined by their role players. The stars set the tone.

I may have lost my faith in Colangelo. Rasho now? In talks of bringing Delfino back? Superpredictable from 10 months ago. Are we pretending the problems of today have not been hurting them years, including those when Rasho and Delfino were here? Didn't Rasho and Delfino sleepwalk through the Orlando series? Bringing them over does not qualify for "change." I'm sorry. We've already seen what this team can do (cannot do) with these players. Ol' Familiar does not necessarily mean it's good, Bryan. You should have learned from Marion, Banks, Voskuhl and the 100 other Suns you've brought on to this team.

I gave you points for trying someone new with O'Neal. You have to try someone different again. Letting Joey Graham go and replacing him with Carlos Delfino does not qualify. This team was 33-49....... and that's not a misprint!

[ASDF]

what does it mean to plead the fifth?

Blogger's note: Avoid self-incrimination

[Spott]

I'm Spanish and so I can´t watch as much games as you do but when you talk about the greatest point guard era I can´t compare this one with the one that had Magic, Isiah and Stockton plus others like K.J., Price, Porter or Dennis Johnson and some more I'm sure to forget. Only because of the first three I believe there is no argument until Rose and Paul grow up a little bit to make me wrong. By the way those point guards used to make all their teammates better, one thing you can´t say about most of the new ones.

On the other hand I hope Jose plays the European Championship. We have never won it and the last one was quite a failure they would want to correct. This year there are no playoffs so he has more time to rest until the championship begins.

[Matt G]

How about double down on the toughness factor and bring in an assistant coach who played with the kind of toughness the Raptors now require? Not only would some toughness on the court be a revelation but also having an assistant coach to tutor players on skills and how to project toughness without being a gangster would be great. Sounds like a perfect gig for Mr. Jones and he could bring his boys to play hockey while here.