Some post, post-mortem items to think about

Quite the day yesterday.

Bryan gives us all kinds of fodder – not huge news but lots to digest – and then the Bulls and Celtics give us one for the ages.

Long day, but quite the day.

Things have to slow down a bit now, don’t they? Next up is for Bryan and Jay to chat – that could happen as early as today – and we’ll see where we go from there news-wise.

Other than that, guess it’s hanging out here for the live in-game blogs (we’re going to do Houston-Portland tonight at 10 for the night owls) and waiting to see if we can unearth some news.

We’ll be trying. But until then, have at it:

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Okay, what did we really learn yesterday in what was quite the BC session. It went longer than usual, he was a bit more combative than he’s been in a while, more revealing his personal thoughts and quite interesting in many regards.

But …

There was nothing new on Bosh (will talk extension, doesn’t think it’ll happen, won’t trade him just because).

There was nothing new on Jay (I figure middle of next week we get the call to the news conference; hopefully you read about it here first).

There was nothing new on Shawn (it’ll be about money and Marion wants lots of it).

So, what was new?

Well, the one thing that caught my ear was an obvious desire to get a second first-round pick in this draft, odd given the general perception that this isn’t a particularly good draft but understandable that it’ll give them another young player with “contract certainty” going into very uncertain economic times. He sounds like he’ll be rather, um, raptorial in his pursuit of a second pick.

And, the other thing was that he’s obviously taken a shot across the bow at Our Friend Roko with repeatedly pointed remarks about the failings behind Jose. I honestly think Roko comes back far better than when he left and he’ll turn into a good NBA point guard but I’m not entirely sure Bryan shares that opinion.

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This was as good a non-statement statement as maybe I’ve ever heard.

Because of the agreement between FIBA and the NBA, Bryan can’t say publicly that he doesn’t want Jose to play for Spain this year and he can’t – and won’t divulge much of the substance of their conversation about it.

Except that maybe he did:

“I'm advising him as an individual who has many years of pro basketball to play, with two years to go here and maybe beyond what's here, maybe he needs to approach it a little bit differently. Maybe he's at that age, he'll be 28 in September (where) that's something he's got to think about, but I can't make that decision for him.”

And then it was brought up that Jose said he wouldn’t play if the Raptors asked him not to, which was when Bryan turned defendant.

“And I'm going to have to plead the fifth.”

End result: No way Jose plays in the European championships, I don’t think.

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I’m trying to think of a three-day period in recent NBA history that’s had more great games by more point guards in one short time frame.

Rajon Rondo’s triple-double last night was a gem; Tony Parker’s night may have salvaged the series for the Spurs and, while I didn’t see it all, Chauncey’s Game 1 was an absolute gem. And we haven’t even started talking about Derrick Rose and how good that kid’s looked in his first two playoff games. And Chris Paul’s not in the discussion because his team got drilled so badly.

But if this is isn’t the greatest point guard era in NBA history, I’m not sure what was.

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Did you hear one of the names that popped up during the session? Rasho.

And since Bryan brought him up – as an example of the kind of good locker room guy teams need – I can see them having some interest in him this summer. But I also heard Bryan suggest Patrick O’Bryant will be back (there’s some misinformation that his contract for next year is fully guaranteed, which it won’t be until July 1; the Raps can waive him before then and save $300,000, although that seems unlikely.

So, you’ll have Bosh, Bargnani, Hump, O’Bryant, Jawai with contracts and if they bring Rasho back, guess who’s the odd man out?

Yep, if I’m Pops Mensah-Bonsu, I’m not sure I’d be signing any long-term leases around these parts.

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TORONTO STAR FILE PHOTO

When the toughness issue comes up we usually run this photo.

Perhaps the most interesting thing Bryan admitted was the distinct lack of toughness on the roster, as I alluded to in this morning’s paper.

And that got a guy thinking, just who has ever been “tough” around these parts.

Hence, a list:

Oak.

By far the toughest Raptor ever, he just didn’t give a crap. And was like Bryan said, a nice guy off the court, a wee bit maniacal on it.

Popeye Jones

Not sure how many remember, but here’s a guy who got in people’s faces on the boards every single night.

Garbo

The dude just had “it.”

Reggie Slater

Guy was really about 6-5 but he’d battle anyone.

Antonio Davis

He's a late add because he had moments where he wasn't as tough as he needed to be but he should be on the list.

And you know what? I’m not sure I can think of more to round out the list much further. Pretty damning indictment, no?

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I’m turning K.C. Johnson into one of the best-read grunts in Toronto, even though he works in Chicago. But you’ve got to admit, his stuff off the Bulls-Celtics has been consistently good. Like this one from last night’s gem. And in the pursuit of fairness, check out what Frank wrote in today's Boston Globe.

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Speaking of gems, it’s generally considered that the better teams are out west, right? So why is is that the best games so far – by a wide, wide, wide margin – have been in the East?

A quick run through the dozen games so far and I absolutely cannot think of a really memorable moment from a Western Conference game.

Sure, there’ve been some great performances (Chauncey, Tony Parker last night, Yao in Game 1 for Houston) but for games? Nothing comes even close to either of the Celtics-Bulls games or the Orlando-Philly opener.

And there’s no reason to think that’s not going to continue.

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Speaking of the West, having watched Puerto Rico play about a zillion international games, at no time did I ever think J.J. Barea would be this good in the NBA. Funny how a kid can get a chance and make the most of it for a week or two. And funny how all that time he played alongside Carlos Arroyo, he was going to be as good or better. Not many saw that coming.

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Comments

[dlow]

I always felt Alvin Williams was one tough dude who gave his all despite being limited by injuries.

[Steve]

AD has to be #2 on that tough list, by a healthy margin over Popeye. Alvin Williams could arguably be #5 over Slater. How about honourable mention to Carlos Rogers for that one game against the Jazz when he got T'd up for flexing at Karl Malone after Malone did it to him at the other end (one of my favourite Raptor memories!).

[Kelsie]

How about adding either of the Alvin's (Robertson or Alvin) to the Raptors tough guy list? I know they were guards but they were feisty, had moxie, defended and played the game the right way.

BC seemed defensive, but he also seemed convinced that this team is not far off from success. I wonder if his definition of success is being a perennial play off team or are we talking championship?

If we're talking championship, he needs to manage his expectations.

[nigel]

Willis? Not so much. Also, toughness isn't just for the "bigs." Alvin Williams was gritty - ran through picks, played through pain and didn't whine to the refs...

[Jon]

Noticed all your tough guys were front court players. What about guys from the backcourt? Wasn't Alvin Williams pretty quite but tough?

[gargalen]

"I'm advising him as an individual who has many years of pro basketball to play, with two years to go here and maybe beyond what's here,"

Ah, check that. Jose has 4 years left on his contract in Toronto. So, it'll be more than "with two years to go here".

Jose should shut down his international activities for Spain till 2012 London Olympics lead up. That would mean 2009-2010, 2010-2011 and 2011-2012 seasons fully focused on the Raptors. Nash did it, so should Calderon.

[dc]

now that Colangelo has stated his interest is obtaining a player (or players) that is a bit more 'maniacal' on the court, does that in any way change your opinion on Ron Artest?
last time I asked you pointed out that he does appear on his best behaviour in a contract year, which doesn't prove a whole lot.

But Oakley was also known as a dramatic personality who insighted tension, just as the team achieved it's greatest successes to date. Without question he was the toughest man to ever put on a raptors jersey.

[larong-kalye]

Re: Tough guys, I'd put Jermaine O'Neal in the list.

[Jeff Steele]

Hey Doug, I apologize for the comment I made yesterday about BC reading the blog making you think twice. I just think it's kind of cool that a GM stays in touch with the fans and beat grunts by reading things like your blog.

Do you think Trevor Ariza is someone worth considering for our starting SG? He seems to be a tough defender with a knack for coming up with steals and fast break dunks. What are the chances we could make him an offer he can't refuse as a free agent this offseason?

After watching Ben Gordon torch the Celtics yesterday I'm torn between going after him or Ariza in the Free Agent market. The only problem with Ben Gordon is that he wouldn't provide any defense so by going after him Colangelo would have to be set on the strategy to outscore his opponents to win games, which seemed to work in Phoenix...

Who would you rather see in a Raps uniform next season if you could choose?

Blogger's note: Neither are likely affordable, but Ariza defends better so he'd be my choice

[Keith Wagar]

Perhaps add Keon Clark to the list of tough

[Sean Peacocke]

Glad you added my Antonio Davis comment.

Though I most likely one of many commenting about that!

[Ali Hussein]

Doug did you hear BC on the Fan today. He was a little critical about Jose's conservative play. I think Jose did show some improvement in the last month as far as running a quicker offense. Do you think he can get to the point where he's as good in the fullcourt as he is playing in an organized halfcourt offense?

Blogger's note: Yes

[Greg]

Doug, "No way Jose..." Been trying to work that in all year haven't you?

[Uncle Zeke]

wow... Doug... you've made some pretty ridiculous statements before but "if this is isn’t the greatest point guard era in NBA history, I’m not sure what was." that might just take the cake...

as a prior commenter noted: Magic, Isiah, Stockton? plus add names like Mark Jackson, Moe Cheeks, Doc Rivers, KJ, Price, DJ, etc...

did you not start watching the NBA until the late 90's or do you really see Chauncey and Derrick Rose as better then Magic et al

Blogger's note: Magic, Isiah, Stockton were great; three of the top six or seven all-time. When it's all said and done, this crop -- of Paul, Kidd, Nash, Parker, Billups, Rose and probably guys like Westbrook and Mayo eventually -- will make this the best long-term point guard group ever. Yeah.

[Jim M]

If BC succeeds in bringing back all the players he discussed yesterday plus adding 2 picks will this spell the end for Graham and Kapono?
One more for your toughness list: Jackie Christie. Sorry I had to!

[Uncle Zeke]

Fair enough- I'll stick with arguably the 3 greatest pg's of all-time...

I think including a guy like Kidd and potentially even Nash in a group that includes rookies like Rose, Westbrook and Mayo is a bit of a stretch... Kidd and Nash belong with guys like Gary Payton and lesser-lights like Strickland, Cassell, etc... as guards who dominated the latter 90's and early 2000's.

To try to mix them in with the new class of guards is combining 20 years and 2 separate classes... If that's the case then add in Walt Frazier, Tiny Archibald and Lenny Wilkens to my group and is it even close?

[Matt from Oakville]

Hey Doug, is it true there's some clause in O'Bryant's contract that has Toronto holding onto him next season?

Blogger's note: There's no clause. He's got a contract for next year. Raptors can waive him and buy him out and pay him $500,000 by July 1; if they don't, he's got a year and about $855,000 left.

[TD Tomkens]

Doug, would you agree that Garbo was probably the most important part of this team in 2006-2007 behind Bosh? He was the definition of a glue guy and brought more heart to the game then anyone I can think of playing in the NBA today.

[Michael]

If BC really thinks toughness is a concern then I don't think he will be able to solve this. I think only the big men will bring toughness and Bosh, Barg will play alot so if they get another big men then he won't play as much anyway.

I remember BC said we need a player like the matrix during an off-season but then he signed JK(1-D, soft, no defense) instead. So I think he will get a totally different type of players instead.

[Allen]

After further reading it appears John Wall will be going to college to my question was a moot point anyways. Look for him to tear it up next year this man has some serious talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw

or for those of you who just want to read about his talent.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=52242&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d52242

[bballer]

doug i have to agree with you with the point guard era. most people are too nostalgic for the '90's. when you look at chris paul, what he is able to do to make his franchise better is unbelievable. the same with deron williams and derrick rose. spott, get espn europe or watch what these point guards are doing now. they are stronger and faster than the point guards of the '90s and they all play defense, aside from nash.

at times these pg's are being guarded by 6'6 220 lb shooting guards, guys who quicker and stronger than guys 15 years ago. throw in a beast like bdiddy or arenas, you will realize why the point guard position is so important in the present day nba. we are witnessing 3 of the top 5 pg's ever playing in the game today - kidd, nash and cp3!

[TMF]

Alvin Robertson was tough. Jail will do that to a man.

[DrakeJudge]

just so you know, calderon was on the most important radio sports show just the day after the raptors season was over saying the next step for him is to get a rest for the european championship in poland 2009, and he has talked to the new national coach already. only pau gasol has not declared, one way or the other (probably not, but still).
calderon knows with him the gold medal is pretty much spain's to lose i really don't think he will become public enemy number 1 without a direct order from the club (which they can't give). If it comes to it the best thing the raptors can hope for is a good insurance policy similar to garbo's.

[Eric]

First, colangelo sounds like he isn't giving Roko much of a chance. He also said the weakness was the backup point gaurd spot....are you kidding me our 2's and 3's were so soft, come on.
If Colangelo wants toughness why isnt Pops getting a contract? You'd rather have Jawai, O'Bryant, or even Hump?
I dont think another jump shooter (Delfino) will help the soft Raptors.
I do think Rasho would be a solid pick-up.
But the thing that must be adressed is the 2 and 3 spots.
Also, its pretty obvious Triano will be head coach.
So whose ready for a 41-41 season next year?

[smd]

Eric,

You're big on the leadership debate once again. . .
The stars aren't tough or leaders. . . . Yikes!
I'm wondering if you've ever played any team sport or realize a team is made up of different skill sets and talent levels and personalities.
The Raps will be fine - adding Rasho would be a big help off the bench - on D and a solid citizen in the dressing room. Delfino adds a little personality and some not so bad minutes off the bench. . . The spare parts that make up a team. They were productive and for the most part well liked when they were here before. I'm sure their talents haven't diminished too drastically and would be a positive rather than a negative.

I agree the roster needs an over haul with depth - and one top notch wing....The rest will look after itself with BC doing what he;s paid for.

CheerS