Of trades and talks and a glorious baseball victory

Wow, so much for a slow day, eh? Bryan gives us a bit of news, two big deals and, yes, the Yankees win!!!!!!

Red-letter day all around.

And just sets us up for a big one today, too, although I imagine it’ll be quiet on the Raptors front. Every indication yesterday was that they have nothing going for an extra pick, no desire to move up and will remain at No. 9. But, as we all know, things can change in a hurry and as soon as I get back from having the chiropractor try to get this wonky spine in order, it’ll be time to hit the phones and see what’s up.

Til then …

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AP FILE PHOTO

Raps took a second look at DeMar DeRozan.

The news that they had two guys back for second visits – well, Johnson was in yesterday, I hear Holiday may not be in until today – was somewhat eyebrow-raising, no?

It’s not entirely unusual, plenty of teams have guys in for second looks that are more about meetings and chats than actual work on the court, but it does send a little bit of a signal.

So, too, then will this news:

They did have a second session with DeRozan, too, I was told. Not here – they had to travel to see him – but they did get a look outside of the one they had at the Air Canada Centre last week.

What’s it all mean?

Well, reading the tea leaves after a handful of conversations, I think if some held a gun to my head and told me I had to rank the Gang of Five, it would look like this:

Holiday

DeRozan

Johnson

Flynn

Henderson

There’d be a big gap between Johnson and Flynn and I think it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility to flop DeRozan and Johnson, either. Let’s say they’re tied.

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We’re all about firsts here in this little corner of the interweb, aren’t we? First with news, first with snark, first with a whole bunch of things.

Well, how about a first link to a Maclean’s piece? This one is very, very good and should be read by all. Of particular interest would be the part where he talks about team play and team success being the true measure of a champion.

Kids who play baseball or soccer or even the pucks need to read that and digest it; their parents and coaches need to read it and take it to heart.

End of sermon.

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Man, Sam’s gonna love coaching those kids in Minnesota, isn’t he?

(That’s if it happens and I hope it does).

But here’s the question in light of this reported transaction:

If the Timberwolves do indeed keep the Nos. 5 and 6 picks, who do they take with each?

Not because of talent, but because of payday. The fifth pick’s salary is about $3 million next year, about $400,000 or so more than the money they’ll have to pay No. 6 under the rookie salary scale.

How do you decide who to reward?

It was suggested to me by a rather smart soul last night that you pay the guy who like the best the least, taking him at No. 6 and taking more of a “project” at No. 5.

Why?

Easy. When it comes time to make qualifying offers in a few years, you could be getting a better player cheaper.

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Oh yeah, another mock draft tomorrow morning, okay?

And here’s the schedule for these parts the rest of the week.

After a meeting of some of the great minds of The Star (that’d be Spencer and I sitting around at my desk for 10 minutes yesterday morning) we’ve come up with this: A live bloggy thingy tomorrow night from about 7 through the lottery portion of the draft (I’m going to go write after that for the web and then the paper) and then one of those live chats on Friday, sometime around noon, to digest the whole shebang. Not sure of that time exactly because it’ll depend on when the draft pick’s going to do a media session but we’re shooting for right around lunch.

Now, you can relax and plan your next couple of days.

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Right, the trade.

The Milwaukee-San Antonio-Detroit trade, that is.

If I had to declare a winner, it’s probably San Antonio although they gutted their front court and unless Matt Bonner all of a sudden becomes a dominant rebounder or they have someone in mind as a free agent or draft pick, they are uber-thin up front.

Jefferson’s insurance if Manu stays hurt and maybe now they even look more seriously at moving Ginobili, although I’d be surprised at that.

Milwaukee’s now got some money in the future to pay Charlie or Ramon Sessions this summer and Detroit gets more savings to make a run at either Ben Gordon or Drew Gooden or both.

Of note to Toronto:

The Spurs are now not likely to be players – because of money – in the Chris Bosh sweepstakes next summer which is sort of big because I always thought the Spurs would have been a good fit if Bosh wants to leave.

And we don’t know that he does so don’t get all crazy on me.

Oh, and why didn’t the Raptors “get” Richard Jefferson? Simple. They didn’t have enough expiring contracts to make up his salary. Was never a chance, was never going to happen, it’s not worth thinking about.

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My man Tom, a frequent contributor here, wonders this yesterday:

Q: What is the upside of showing your cards before the draft. While most media/GMs/fans would have a very good guess at this list, what’s the upside of communicating it publicly?”

A: No question there’s a level of misdirection in some comments. Teams might talk up a guy they sort of like knowing a team right above them is on the fence about him, hoping the other team takes him so the guy the first team really, really likes falls a notch.

But it’s also to send a message to agents and players that, yeah, there is some legitimate interest so they can go to other teams coveting them and say, ‘hey, all things considered, I’d rather go to Toronto so if you don’t want an unhappy camper, leave me alone.”

And some of it’s just common sense.

Everyone and their brother could discern which five guys would be on a Raptors list, for instance. Bryan didn’t break and big news by giving us those names.

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Hey, How ‘Bout Them Yankees! Not, the sorry lot that was shut out again by Atlanta last night, the Mighty Yankees of the Mississauga North peewee house league, who recorded another impressive victory last night.

Think we had like 21 runs in six innings of work.

As my Hitting Consultant M. Nori mentioned the other night, it’s all about squishing bugs and hitting line drives up the middle.

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Comments

[AAAA]

Hey Doug,

What about signing Juan Carlos Navarro?

Same type of player as Jrue Holiday but older, more experienced and polished. This would allow us to pick up a more athletic player with the pick (Johnson/DeRozen)

It would be interesting to see him play next to Jose and I'm sure he would accept the same type of contract we would give AP and hes 3 years younger.

Thoughts?

Blogger's note: Can't see it happening. One, he's given no indication he wants to come back and, two, he didn't exactly set the league on fire when he was here

[Nick M]

I would like to see the Raps take DD as well. But I think Holiday and Jose together in the back court could work. Lets not forget how good of a shooter Jose is; he could be used off the ball at times while Holiday is running the pick and roll or driving to the basket.

[Flynn]

Hey Doug one of the commenters before me got me thinking when he asked you to compare Joey G to James Johnson... weird question but if Joey G was coming to the NBA in this year's draft. Where would he be in terms of talent? My guess would be pretty high due to the falling off in talent after the top three...

Blogger's note: Can't hazard a guess

[Mark]

Tim W. Take a look at the numbers here and explain to me how you think Henderson is better than say Meeks who will be a borderline 1st rounder.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Just-By-the-Numbers-This-Years-Shooting-Guard-Crop-3264
Pay special attention to things like true shooting %. His is extremely low especially considering the talent he had around him. Henderson has no outside shot, but he also has no left hand whatsoever. He's also smaller and less athletic than Derozen. I'm not sure where you get the idea that he has a high basketball IQ from either. To me he appears to be pretty typical in this regard.

To Kelsie: You have very high expectations for a guy who played on (from a defensive perspective) a very mediocre team (unlike most Ben Howland teams, this year's UCLA squat was poor on the defensive end), is undersized for the 2 in the NBA and only managed single digit scoring.

[Dan W]

I was just looking on draft express at past Raptor picks. Heres one of the weaknesses of Joey graham that I found funny because he still does it.
The first thing to talk about when it comes to Graham's weak points is his lack of a first step. You would expect a player with Graham's physical characteristics to be able to slash to the basket with ease, but Graham doesn't, unless he is allowed to clear space with his left arm (the source of many of his offensive fouls this year

[Kelsie]

Tim W

As for Johnson, I'd be leery of any guy with as much talent as he has who is also been so inconsistent. He also doesn't have a high basketball IQ and is considered overweight. How does a guy train for the NBA draft and still be overweight? I don't understand that. If the draft doesn't motivate him enough to get in shape, what will?

How has he been inconsistent? He's only played two years in school and his numbers got better this year even after adding Aminu to that team and having Teague taking many shots as well. He developed his ball handling considerably and was a strong rebounder for that team.

You might have a point in him being overweight for the combine but we don't know what that is attributed to? It might be an issue and might not be. I just don't think we should get caught up in all of the draft hype and speculation. The only thing that matters is what he does when the jersey is on and the ball is tossed in the air.

There are hundreds of stories of players with questions marks during the combine but when they got drafted and get on the court the question marks are long gone. I remember out of college there were some 'question marks' about Vince's ball handling??? Those question marks went out the door mighty quick!

[ade]

Hi Doug,
i was wondering what you thought about the raps getting Fabricio Oberto? it looks like he is going to be released and i feel like he is a glue type guy(very much in the Grabo mold) that the raps really need.

(thanks for the great blog)

Blogger's note: I think Oberto's pretty good but Toronto's chock full of bigs and I bet if he gets waived, he could very well end up back with the Spurs

[Jay]

Doug, you really like to talk down to your raeders don't you? So waht if we fantasize about raptors getting RJ, we're fans duh. I'm getting sick and tired of the way you write your articles. Seriously, you my friend need to understand that we come to VIEW your blog. Not to get talked down to. I'm going to stop reading it until you learn how to write properly.

Blogger's note: A true snarky soul would retort: If you stop, how are you going to know when I learn to "write properly?"

[Kelsie]

Mark

To Kelsie: You have very high expectations for a guy who played on (from a defensive perspective) a very mediocre team (unlike most Ben Howland teams, this year's UCLA squat was poor on the defensive end), is undersized for the 2 in the NBA and only managed single digit scoring.

I don't actually.

My comments were in response to the impression that it would be a disaster if they picked Holiday. The entire Pac 10 was considerably weak this year but like I said before he played out of position, as a freshman but was higly touted coming out of high school so I think the jury is still out on him.

My point was in relation to just ensuring that we get the best player available and if it's not DeRozan we shouldn't be dissapointed. It might actually be a blessing in disguise. For all of DeRozans size and athletic ability he can't create and most two guards in this league have that ability built in unless they are sharp shooters. Potential or not, ideally you would like that prospect to have that ability (handles, or creating his own shot) considering it is a huge weakness on our team, no?

I wasn't championing Holiday's cause, I was just making a point to be objective and lets see what happens.

[Tim W.]

Mark,

I don't pay all that much attention to college stats because they can be often very misleading. I like Henderson from watching him play and that, as well as the scouting reports I've read of him, lead me to believe he does have a high basketball IQ. The fact that his fathered played in the NBA also tends to bode well.

I don't think Henderson is a great shooter, by any means, but better than DeRozan. Henderson's shooting improved over the season, as well. I think he's got the ability to become an excellent shooter.

Kelsie,

His stats have been up and down he seemed to disappear not only offensively but defensively for long periods of times.

I agree there are question marks about every player the Raptors are looking at. Some concern me more than others. I remember the comments about VInce's ball handling. Similar to those about DeRozan's, by the way.

[GM]

Kelsie said: "I like Jose but I've been waiting for his replacement for awhile now due to his lack of defence (c'mon Roko, develop quickly buddy,lol)."

I read an article recently on Rubio and the columnist spoke to a bunch of different NBA staffers (scouts and such). Interesting comments that apply indirectly to Jose.

One scout said (about Rubio): "A lot of people think being super athletic is more important than basketball instinct and basketball skill. Being quick certainly helps, but Steve Nash has done pretty well with what he brings to the table because he has great skill and decision-making ability."

About Rubio's supposed lack of on-ball defense, the scout said, "That doesn't keep me awake nights because not many top-flight point guards really defend the ball that well."

Another person described as a personnel type employed by an NBA franchise, doesn't think it's wise to take a point guard so high in the draft because "You don't need greatness at that position to win an NBA title."

So people should remember that when always harping on Jose's weaknesses. Accentuate the positive because no one has everything you need.

As for Navarro, he didn't exactly burn up the league, but he did in a couple of games. Unfortunately he was playing for the Grizzlies. He did have a few really good games, though, and did make the all-rookie second team and averaged double-figure scoring. I think he was better than he was given the chance.

[b]

I think people are less enamored with Johnson not because of his production, but because he is clearly more of an undersized 4/hybrid forward than anything else. Why bother with him if the Raps plan to re-sign Marion? If he's not quick enough to guard 2/3s at the NBA level and the Raps see him as purely a guy they could exploit for mismatches, why bother taking him at all? They could buy a 2nd round pick for cheap to get a 3/4 tweener, there are a ton of tweeners this year.

He is already 22 as well, and while he looks like a solid player, he doesn't have nearly the upside Holiday, Flynn or DeRozan have.

[Tim W.]

To comment more on Jose's defense, I think he's a much better defender than we saw much of last season, due to his injury. That's not to say he's ever going to be an outstanding defender, but I remember being mildly impressed with his defense two years ago and it looked a lot better at the end of the season.

A lot of people are getting a lot of their impressions from Jose from when he was injured, and he really didn't look like the same player trying to play with a bad hamstring.

[The Realist]

Holiday over DeRozan rofl!

Remember the last time we passed on an extremely athletic swing man who couldn't shoot a lick? Yep, Hoffa over Iggy. Embarrassing, we better not make that mistake again.

Blogger's note: That's about as apples and oranges as you can get.

[Brad]

Doug, any idea if Washington plans to keep both Foye and Miller? It seems like they have a crowded perimeter and really no one left inside?

Blogger's note: Sure, they'll keep 'em, play Antawn at the four a lot with Haywood and find a cheap backup big or two.

[LH]

Listen if the Raptors get an athletic wing who can finish in traffic they are ahead of the game. They know this and they must have tested against this in workouts. One guy to stay away from is Henderson. Duke is another word for bust when it comes to the NBA draft.

Blogger's note: Yeah, that Grant Hill and Elton Brand sure stunk.

[Rob]

If I was BC, I'd be working on a deal with Minnesota to move up and get Tyreke Evans. Great off the dribble, althletic, and should develop into a good defender.