This and that and an intellectual properties discussion

With nothing really going on – I know, it’s early in the day and things change – what else would we do but look back a day or so. And pray the day stays quiet so I can sit around and do nothing, which I do very, very well.

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Okay, let’s deconstruct this possible Banks-Carroll trade a bit more since the deconstruction process was rather spread out through the comments yesterday.

And a reminder, the deal’s not done, as we mentioned right off the bat yesterday, so if it falls apart, it falls apart. But if it doesn’t …

Point: Carroll’s contract is too long.

Counterpoint: Yes, it likely is but it’s not a killer by any means.

The short-term financial gain may not seem all that significant – it’s about $700,000 or so over the next two years – but it is since it gets Toronto that much further away from whatever the tax threshold will be. And that can never hurt.

The final two years of Carroll’s deal -- $3.9 million and $3.5 million – are hardly horrible. They're not great but it will be far below the league average which, I believe, would perhaps make him possibly tradeable. And, besides, you have to trust me that Bryan and his bean-counting henchmen have crunched every conceivable number and they can live with that salary two seasons from now without sacrificing any flexibility regarding Bosh’s future; they have the rest of the major parts of the team locked up past that anyway. It’s not like not saving less than $4 million a year will let be major players in free agency in 2011 or 2012.

Point: Why not wait and trade Banks in February or next summer?

Counterpoint: How’s your crystal ball working these days?

Why on earth people think GMs next summer, or even next winter, will be more willing to take on that number than Dallas is now boggles my mind. If there is a way to get that contract off the books to you thank your lucky stars and take it. You do not – under any circumstances to my mind – wait for lightning to strike twice.

Point: Carroll’s can’t defend

Counterpoint: Who cares?

Look, we’re talking about a specialist, a shooter who should see very, very, very limited minutes on a team with DeMar DeRozan, Marco Belinelli, Antoine Wright and Jarrett Jack all capable of playing the same spot.

Carroll’s insurance. Deep-down-the-bench insurance.

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Point: Just let Banks sit there

Counterpoint: And do what?

Take up space? He’s an asset, and if you can turn an asset into another asset you like better, go for it.

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Point: The trade’s nothing for nothing.

Counterpoint: Sort of.

It’s not an earth-shattering deal; it’s 15th man for 12th man and that’s hardly worth getting worked up over.

But, here’s one to consider: I know that Banks has not been a real problem in the locker room but there are those in the organization who think he could be a bit of pouter if he had to sit for another season and get no action. Carroll? Well, the people in Charlotte, where he spent the majority of his career, love the kid. “Absolutely great guy. Absolutely great quote.” That’s what one e-mail I got on him said.

Now, if they can just get this deal done, the summer has to be over, right?

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Point: Why not just buy him out and re-sign Pops?

Counterpoint: Arrrrrrghhhhhh!!!!!!

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Henry Abbott over at TrueHoop has one of – no, you should probably make that the – best blogs out there and he’s always unearthing very cool stuff.

Like this gem from Arizona involving Captain Canada and Shaq.

And you wonder why sometimes team chemistry issues arise?

I can’t remember anything like this occurring around the Raptors at any time I’ve been around. I guess the closest thing was that there was talk – and that’s all it was – about business arrangements involving Butch Carter and a couple of the players on his last team that might have gone sour but certainly nothing that approaches the Nash-O’Neal thing.

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A good night for Canada in Puerto Rico.

How much it matters remains to be seen but one thing I’ve noticed paying very little attention to the runup to the world qualifier next week is that Argentina doesn’t seem like Argentina at the moment.

Now, that could change once they start playing for real but a lot of the usual suspects are gone from that team and we might be in a down period for the perennial contenders.

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Oh, yeah. Mail. I could use some. Please.

(As an aside, what you get on the weekend or Monday likely has to take you through an entire week; Super Family’s heading west for a legitimate vacation next week – Vancouver, Whistler, Seattle and back to Vancouver suggestions greatly accepted – and I’m not sure I’ll be doing any typing unless something of huge significance occurs. So, get those cards and letters in, maybe we’ll get enough to do a couple mailbags that I can put up on different days while relaxing at Nat Bailey or The Kells or some other swinging hot spot.)

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Oh oh.

Time to head people off at the pass.

Desmond Mason is not going back to Oklahoma City.

No, Desmond Mason is not coming to Toronto.

Just thought I’d mention that before people asked. Because that’s what people do.

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Speaking of mail, I told Jeff S. that I’d move this over from the comments yesterday

Q: Which Raptor has the best shot at making the All-Star team next season along with Bosh?

A: I think it has to be Hedo, don’t you? Probably should have made it last year, probably should have had some major consideration the year before. I imagine he’ll be on the minds of a lot of coaches if he gets off to a good start through February and the Raptors do, too.

And, you know, is it out of the realm of possibility to think that if Shaq, for instance, gets hurt or doesn’t play well in Cleveland – and I have no idea how they’ll use him with Ilgauskas – that Bargnani might not be the second best centre in the East behind the guy in Orlando? That might be a stretch but if he’s getting 20-7 every night, I bet there’s some stumping for him.

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Comments

[Nick]

FYI.

"...lighting to strike twice."

Shouldn't it be lightNing, with 'N' in there?

Blogger's note: Yeah. Fixed. Thanks

[Sean]

Doug great article as always. as an optimist I agree with all the counter points, and I think Jose Calderon will be an all star next season.

[Caleb]

Wow, had no clue about Shaq stealing Nash's idea (I would have more likely watched if Nash was on the show, then again I guess I'm being too much of a homer, right?). Guess you can add that to a long list of controversial and whacky decisions/quotes made by Shaq over his career. How about a top ten Shaq moments list Doug?

Blogger's note: That's going to take some thinking and some time; maybe one day

[Nathan]

"Why on earth people think GMs next summer, or even next winter, will be more willing to take on that number than Dallas is now boggles my mind."

Players entering or in the final year of their contract are always sought after by GMs looking to shed longterm contracts

[Ken]

Hi Doug,

Curious commments from some of the readership. Seems like everyone thought BC could never hope to trade Banks and now that it looks like he will, they are questioning what is coming back in return. Carroll isn't going to play big minutes on this team, but he will be a usuable asset at times. He'll hit some big shots for this team and that couldn't be expected from Marcus Banks.

My memory is fuzzy, but do you recall a team in recent history that has turned over the majority of the roster like the Raptors have ?

[John MacDonald]

The last question asked by Jeff S is a good one but I'm surprised that you didn't mention the possibility that Jose Calderon might get some consideration. Last year he didn't produce that well but mainly because of lagging injuries and playing excessive minutes. This year he's fully healthy, well rested, and looking to do many good things. I think he'll be good for 15ppg, 10apg, under 2 turnovers a game, shooting close to 50% from the field, close to 40% from 3 and close to 100% from the line. Is it just me or does that not look like Nash numbers and in my book Nash would make the allstar game every year in the east.

[Peter]

Hey Doug,

If you get a chance when you're in Vancouver, take the ferry over to Vancouver Island. I was just there on Holidays and it's one the nicest parts of Canada. The Royal Museum in Victoria has a loaner exhibit from the British Museum of London right now that is well worth the trip. Also, Pacific Rim National Park on the west coast of the island is very much worth your time.

[rob]

Doug,
You have to swing by victoria if you are coming to vancouver, it is an amazing city. walking along Dallas road or the harbour is quite the experience.
I think the most entertaining team (off the court) next year would definitely be Cleveland, with Shaq and Lebron who knows what could unfold.

Blogger's note: Oh, Victoria's on the itinerary for sure. Thanks

[Alex]

A GM would want to trade for Banks next summer because he becomes a $4.5M expiring contract, which would be a tremendous asset going into a time where the cap could come down. Look at the Bellinelli trade essentially straight up for a small expiring contract.

You said it yourself. A 15th guy for a 12th guy. A guy who won't play at all for a guy who may or may not get 5 minutes a night. Is that worth an extra 2 years? It would make a lot more sense to wait out 1 year of a 15th guy then parlay that expiring into 3 years of a quality player.

[EK]

April 09 vs November 09
5 Players Remain: Bargs, POB, Bosh, Jose, Douby

Positionally speaking, BC's 10 Player-Trade
C Rasho for Jake
PF Evans for Hump
PF Johnson for Jawai
SF Turks for Marion
SF Wright for Good-Joey
SF Wimms for Pops
SG DeRozan for AP
SG Bellinelli for Kapono
SG Carroll for Banks
PG Jack for Roko

I'm still in disbelief. Yes, it's still up in the air who'll start at the starting 2 spot, but healthy competition at any given time between Jack, Wright, Demar and Marco can only be a good thing.

[Tim W.]

Nathan: "Players entering or in the final year of their contract are always sought after by GMs looking to shed longterm contracts."

To a degree, but the idea that ANY expiring contract can be turned into something useful is false. There are dozens of examples of teams that could get nothing of value in return for an expiring contract. Just take a look at how many contracts expire every single season and you can do the math. Besides, Colangelo turned a useless player into a semi-useful player. What more do you want?

[chris]

Carroll shot .245 from 3-land last year. Some specialist.

The only way this makes sense is if Banks was being a malcontent and/or peeving off the organization. Otherwise there is no way to justify taking on 4 yrs of a shooting specialist who can't shoot.

And Doug - unless my math is wrong we are nowhere close to luxury tax for this year. That 700k doesn't matter.

Blogger's note: Well, won't it matter if they want to add a slightly larger contract in some mid-season deal?

[Sam Rook]

Doug,
Enjoy the vacation. Here are some suggestions:
Vancouver- Skip Capilano Suspension bridge and hit Lynn Canyon (which has it's own great suspension bridge, isn't packed with tourists and best of all it's FREE!)which is just east of Capilano.
Seattle- Visit Key Arena and lament the lost Sonics then cheer yourself up with a trip to the Experience Music Museum. It's one of the better museums I have ever been to.

Blogger's note: Oh, Key Centre and the Museum are absolutely on the list; Super Son's taking guitar lessons :)

[Rob from Halifax]

I know it must get old responding to all the comments, but it is not great to have a such a passionate fanbase. Name another team with a fanbase as engaged as this one.

Sonny Weems commented on his twitter about comments he was receiving from raps fans. The fact that that happened for an end of the bench guy shows the passion.

Proud to be a raps fan

[Jamie]

I know Jose needs to have a more consistent season, but who are the East PGs who would be all-stars in front of him? I'm thinking Nelson, but then Im drawing a blank.

[AS]

Doug...I think the worse possible move the raptors can make is to re-sign Bosh. He is a decent player but a team built around him is built for mediocrity. Majority of the time, he struggles agaist the leagues best and florishes against the leagues worst. He would be the ideal second man on a good team like Gasol on the Lakers. But as a first man, a franchise player, he aint it. Come on Doug, you must see the much. If you don't, then wow, how can i respect you??

Blogger's note: Guess you can't.

[anthony.mackay]

Nice job as usual Doug, thanks for giving us die hards something to read while waiting for the much anticipated pre season.

Last year we tried to go big with JO, Bosh and AB at the 3 which didn't really work cause Andrea needed starters minutes at the 5 to really develop. Now we really can go BIG since the 6'10" Turk will play the 3, I'm not comparing us to the Lakers but that line up sounds very similar to:
Bynum (young developing center like AB)
Gasol (All-star PF like Bosh)
Odem (do it all match up nightmare SF like Turk)

I'd take Jose over Fish while Kobe is obviously the missing piece. If we can get at least average to slightly above after play out of a starting 2 (Jack, DaRozen, Wight?) then we should be able to bang with the top 4 teams in the east. Our bench is looking better then many other East teams as well.

Go Raps!

[gotgame]

The only thing that makes me feel good about this deal is that Coangelo can turn around and flip Carroll into someone else easier than it'll be to trade Banks down the road. Teams are always on the lookout for 3pt shooting to spread the floor.

[Gl3NN]

I know both of these players both have big contracts but if we trade Banks for Carrol I think it would be a great deal. Banks will and has done nothing for this team. Carrol he's a dead eye 3 point shooter, if you leave him alone on the arc you will get burned. He will get little minutes but I think when he gets on the floor he will produce. My thought on this trade

Gl3NN

[Jon]

Depending on how this team performs, it will be interesting to see how Toronto's All-Star prospects stack up.

The funny thing is that Calderon might actually have a better chance of starting an All-Star game than Bargnani, Turkoglu or even Bosh because each of them is stuck behind a dominant player/vote machine (Howard, James, Garnett). There's so many good but not great PGs that concerted voting by Toronto fans combined with a great start could get Calderon in as the starter.

Not likely and just idle speculation, but it's interesting the way the East has so many solid PGs, but no clear #1 or even top 3. Rose, Nelson, Calderon, Harris, Arenas(?), Rondo...all very good, none currently great.

[Paul]

If you look at the potential Banks/Carroll trade along side the Kapono/Evans trade, doesn't it seem like a steal that the Raptors could give up a guy who can shoot and a guy in a suit for a guy who can shoot and a tough veteran defender/rebounder. It will be like turning Banks into Evans. No down side.

[Ben]

I wish Nash had gone through with the show...it would be a lot more entertaining to watch since Nash is actually an incredible athlete (just watch him kick a soccer ball) who might actually give guys a run for their money.

[Ben]

I also have to agree with Jamie....the day Chris Bosh is not the franchise player but a great second fiddle (say to one demar derozen down the road) will be the day the Raps are legitimate contenders.

[AS]

seriously Doug. You think Bosh is a franchise player in the same calibre with true franchise players likes of a dwayne wade, lebron, duncan, Kobe??

Blogger's note: Maybe not those four, no. But who is?

[gotgame]

Bosh has apparently been hard at work this summer building what Maurizo (check raptors.com for the interview link) called Bosh's "new body". Its' his contract year and if he come back with a bigger frame and the drive to tear it up, you may see him continue to grow ... getting closer to that label of Franchise player. He'll have a better supporting cast to do it this year too.
The Dallas newspapers are writing this deal up as "getting rid of Carroll" and getting rid of "the mid-level mistake they made last summer"! Check out the comments too, quite hilarious.

http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/08/mavs-might-get-rid-of-matt-carroll.html