Does there have to be a greatest ever?

Big day around these parts. Steve Nash interview this morning, lunch with him around noon, goofing off in the afternoon.

But first …

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Since there’s really not any news to do with this local team here, let’s expand the horizons a little bit; which is something I think we should do here more often this coming season, don’t you?

(The debate among some at our office is whether we’re trying to cater to Raptors fans or basketball fans. I have always held we should do more league stuff, maybe we’ll start a concentrated effort this season. Digression done).

AP FILE PHOTO

Anyway, it’s Hall of Fame weekend, as we all should know and that Jordan fellow goes in tomorrow night.

There have been all kinds of tributes, and will be for the next 48 hours for sure, and the consensus is that he’s the greatest player to ever play the game.

Is he?

There is no doubting his skill, his determination, his work ethic, his ability to make those around him better, his championships. He was singularly skilled and had a will to win that I cannot imagine being duplicated.

He was the best I ever saw and I feel privileged to have watched him.

But to declare him the greatest ever? I honestly don’t know, mostly because of the apples and oranges part of the debate.

Was he better than Oscar Roberston? Was he better than Bill Russell?

We can say yes but by what measure? Oscar didn’t win as much but played with inferior players most of his career, it can be said. Russell won more titles but played with better players, his teammates were Hall of Famers in their own right.

How much of Jordan was marketing? We saw so much of him, on TV and in videos, that there were times you couldn’t escape him if you wanted. But what if they lived in an era of 24-hour sports networks, the Internet, and YouTube when Oscar played? Or Russell?

Would that sway anyone? Jordan was a “brand” almost as much as he was an athlete, it was the cutting edge of the wave that’s brought us to this point of tweets and video and the like.

The way I look at it is this:

Enjoy the memories of Jordan as you should, we may never see another like him. But also save some spot in the mind’s eye for Robertson and Russell.

I don’t think you ever can say one athlete is the greatest of all time because all times are not equal, all circumstances not the same.

Isn’t it enough to simply revel in what we had instead of making impossible comparisons? Isn’t there room for a group of “greatest evers” that can include more than one guy?

I think so.

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With news filtering out yesterday that Allen Iverson is joining a Memphis team that already includes O.J. Mayo, Zach Randolph and Rudy Gay, I feel it’s my duty to report that the NBA record for fewest assists per game by a team is 15.6, set by Atlanta in the lockout-shortened 50-game 1998-99 season.

Just pointing it out for future reference.

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Hardly any surprises out of Eurobasket with the first round completed. The teams expected to be eliminated were indeed eliminated although Latvia really kind of got screwed. They win but lose because they didn’t win by enough.

But check out this game report and don’t feel too sorry for them, they gave up a couple of huge buckets when they could least afford it in the dying seconds and – Golden State fans, if any exist, please take note – Andris Biedrins missed six of eight free throws and his team missed 19 in total.

We’ll check out the second round tomorrow; this edition here is going to get a bit long anyway.

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One of the big reasons I really enjoy Jerry Sloan.

Before every Raptors-Jazz game I can remember since I started covering the team, Sloan and his assistants wander into the press room about two hours before tip-off and have dinner.

Same as the rest of us lowlifes (not sure they pay like we do, I presume they’re part of the traveling party that gets the free grub); they sit with us, chow down on the same meal and shoot the breeze if you want.

Just like the regular pressroom inhabitants.

And he’s the only NBA head coach I’ve ever seen do that.

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Travelogue time: According to people in the know, the entire coaching staff’s in town now working out DeRozan, O’Bryant and Weems and the rest of the tam is due in “no later than next week” according to the fellow I talked to yesterday.

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Hitherto, at least by the recollection of some involved, untold Jordan-in-Toronto story.

Bulls vs. Raptors at the Dome, had to be in the team’s second season, a Sunday afternoon game.

The players line up for the tip, all tense and ready to give their very best for all the paying customers and just before the ball goes up, Jordan, hands on knees, anticipating, looks over at the scorers’ table.

And winks at one of the women sitting there. A woman, I have to add, who is no longer employed by the basketball team.

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The debate is going to wage on whether or not this is the greatest class to go into the Hall of Fame in a single year.

You can check out the year-by-year inductions here and I have to say, you could certainly make the case that Jordan, Robinson and Stockton would be right at the top of the discussion, can’t you?

I’m guessing the ’08 class with Barkley, Olajuwon, Ewing and Adrian Dantley would be high on anyone’s list, as would ’80 with Oscar Robertson, Jerry West and Jerry Lucas. I suppose ’93 -- Dr. J, Calvin Murphy, Walt Bellamy and Dan Issel – would get some love.

Other than that? Well, I can’t see a standout fifth, actually.

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Hall of Fame trivia

Four people directly associated with the Raptors are enshrined.

Can you get ‘em all?

No prize to the winner but some self-satisfaction, I presume.

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Okay, one last Jerry Sloan moment. And if I’ve told this before, sorry.

It’s one I laugh about just writing it.

We’re out there in Haffa’s rookie season, pretty early in the year if I recall, and Sloan’s doing his media stuff after the morning shootaround.

(An aside: You do remember that Araujo went to Brigham Young and the late Larry Miller, who owned the Jazz at the time, had told local reporters they would have taken him had the Raptors not made the surprise choice).

So, this young woman from a local Utah radio station, I believe it was, says to Sloan:

“Well, coach, it’ll be interesting to get a look at Haffa tonight, won’t it.”

Sloan:

“Who?”

Almost spat out my coffee.

After it’s explained to Sloan who Araujo is and what Miller said, the coach gets a little, not exactly sheepish, but explanatory and says he doesn’t pay a lot of attention to draft stuff.

Me? I’m howling inside.

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All right, off to see Captain Canada, will get to comments when I can.

Comments

[Sam]

Woooooow early blog today, that's wonderful to have it as main dish, served with coffee.
Doug: Any chance that we can see RAPS work out in Ottawa? I really can not wait to see the new faces and how the mesh with each other on court (and I'm sure I'm not the only one). Can you give us some updates PLSSSSSSSS? What would would be your prediction for 09-10? Shall we say 50 wins guaranteed?

Blogger's note: You should guarantee nothing; and if this year is like last year, the only chance to see them actually work will be in the Saturday afternoon public scrimmage

[brent]

Where's the answer to the trivia question? I got three right away - Isiaih, Hakeem & Embry . . . scratching my head on the 4th.

[Boko]

Isaiah, Lenny, Wayne & Hakeem.

[George]

It is funny that you added the greatest ever debate here, as yesterday I was reading a cricket blog that was attempting to establish the best ever bowler between Wasim Akramm, an extremely gifted and talented bowler who could swing the ball in either direction. A gift that allowed him to hold the record for most number of wickets (outs) taken. And Imran Khan, one of the first to master the swing and a resilient captain who led Pakistan to its first World Cup title. The point is that the blogger summed up his entry with a quote he heard from one of his friends. "Wasim was the greatest. And Imran was no less". I guess the same could be said of the Jordan, Russell and Robertson debate.

[Andre]

Hoffa would have been a better fit in Utah, AND IGGY would have looked GREAT in a Toronto UNIFORM. that was the past :(

[Ken L]

Wayne Embry, Hakeem Olajuwon and Lenny Wilkins(x2)& Isiah Thomas.

ding ding ding?

[Boko]

What I'm willing to concede is that Michael Jordan was the furthest ahead of his next nearest rival, - Bellamy, at his position, by far. Arguments can be legitimately made that either Russell, Chamberlain, Olajuwon or Abdul-Jabbar are the greatest C ever, for different reasons. The same goes for Robertson, Magic Johnson, Stockton or Archibald at PG. And although players like Karl Malone, Pippen & Dr. J could round out my All-Time team, they'd not be as much better than players like Pettit, Lucas, Baylor, Bird, & Barkley.

[MC B-Rad]

Hakeem Olajuwon, Isiah Thomas, Alex English and Lenny wilkins?

[Steve]

Doug
Raptors HoF...hmmm. Dream, Lenny, Isiah, and Alex English.

Where do you want to send my pri...awww

[Josh]

Hakeem, Lenny Wilkins, Wayne Embry and... Alex English?

[TMF]

Hall of fame quiz:
Hakeem, Lenny, English, Embry

But more importantly, let the rampant speculation begin over who MJ winked at!

I'll start by tossing Lori Belanger out there.

[Les]

I'm going with Hakeem, Lenny, English for the HOF'ers. Can't come up with the 4th though.

[PC]

HOF Trivia...

Hakeem, Isiah, Lenny and Wayne Embry?

[Anthony Falcioni]

Douglas, with "experts" picking the Raptors to finish anywhere from 3-12, what are your thoughts on where they might finish? I personally don't like to guess these things.

Blogger's note: Neither do I; so 3-12 is fine with me.

[Farhan Lalji]

"Four people directly associated with the Raptors are enshrined"
- Lenny Wilkens
- Wayne Embry
- Alex English
- Hakeem Olajuwon

[Geoff Read]

Not sure if you mean presently associated or have been associated, but I can think of five of the latter: Hakeem, Alex English, Lenny Wilkens, Wayne Embry, and Isiah Thomas. And I can only assume that one day Negele Knight will get his due.

[Patrick]

Morning Doug,

Regarding the "four people directly associated with the Raptors" that are enshrined in the Hall of Fame, I'm going to go ahead and guess a) Hakeem Olajuwon, b) Isiah Thomas, c) Lenny Wilkens and d) Wayne (the Big Teddy Bear) Embry.

How'd I do? Either way, have a good one!

[Lawrence]

Usain Bolt is the greatest sprinter ever.

Wilkins, The Dream, Embury, Isiaih...Is Isiaih in the hall?

[Jon Mikan]

i'm guessing the person that jordan winked at is norma wick?

[FK]

Good question Doug.

There doesn't need to be a GOAT - no - but there is one.

Jordan's combination of game, will & personality separate him from anyone else in the conversation. Even without the will and personality his game separated him, a pure dominance over all who opposed him (except on the baseball diamond).

Was he better than Oscar Roberston? Simply put, yes.
Was he better than Bill Russell? Simply put, probably. But as you addressed, we'll never ever really know.

Everyone's entitled to his or her own opinion, but the case for Jordan is just too rich with statistics, anecdotes, and video footage to deny him his rightful place at the top.

[Woody]

Howdy Doug, have fun today, perks of the job I guess.

Re: Memphis, is there an assist given to the guy that inbounds the ball, as he may lead the league in assists this year. At least he wil on this team. Should do an over and under on how many assists are handed out for that team in one game.

Re: Jordan, I would think greatest ever, had the chance to see him in the playoffs, Detroit Silverdome, 7th row, Pistons championship team. MJ just a few years in, so MJ is on the wing with the ball, makes a bad pass to the point, Isiah steals, takes the ball one on one with the point, drives right fo the layup, whistle , foul, the follow through, 50,000 screaming fans cheering, out of nowhere comes MJ and takes off from the foul line over the rim and volleyball spikes the ball 40 rows up, literally the whole place goes 'ooohhh' and eerily silent. Just amazing to watch.

So when's the next trade, we love trades and trade speculation more than the actual games? At least the silly Pops junk has stopped.

Cheers

[chili]

If Michael Jordan wanted his team to win, they would win. He could control the outcome of a ballgame, 95% of the time. I wouldn't know if the Big O or Russell could do that. I didn't get a chance to watch them play.
When I was working in Chicago in 1996, there were talks that the Bulls could have beaten the Jazz in 4 games but Jordan was talked into "extending" the series because the concession workers at United Center were going to be mad if they sweep them. These people would lose income if the series would not go back to Chicago.

[Felix]

i know no one wanted to sign iverson, but how do think other teams feel about him signing with someone other than them? As in, he still has a lot of heart and on any given night *could* carry a team to a win. he may not be a player you want on your team due to his attitude and chemistry reasons, but how does him being your opponent change your attitude of him??

as for the raptors HOF, i'll wager a guess of... olajuwon, english, embry and wilkens... close?

[Joey Hesketh]

Wayne Embry, Alex English, Isiah Thomas, Lenny Wilkens?

[Anthony R]

4 people that have been associated with the Raptors that have been enshrined in the HOF:
Hakeem Olajuwon
Lenny Wilkins
Alex English
Isiah Thomas

That's my guess. Did I win the self satisfaction award?