G.O.A.T.? What if there isn't one?

Slow day, a paucity of news so we’ll be shorter – and a bit later – than usual while I get ready for the Black Stars at 10.

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So, Kobe?

Lots of questions around the ether on where he stands now that he’s got his five rings in a decade and is, in my opinion, the best player in the game today.

But what about all time?

Where is he vis-à-vis Michael Jordan seems to be the big question out there now and it such a matter of personal preference there is no answer, only opinions.

And I will say this: As a pure player of the game, that’s shooting and defending and passing and rebounding and leading his team, I will say he is as good, if not better, that Jordan ever was.

No, there are not as many electrifying dunks but Jordan’s jump shot is not comparable to Bryant’s. And in a pure personal opinion, I say Bryant does as many things as well on the court than Michael ever did.

But here’s where it gets sticky when you’re talking about where players fit in history and underscores the unfairness of the whole idea.

Jordan never lost an NBA Finals and has one more ring than Bryant, who has lost a championship series twice.

Both played alongside some great players – Shaq, Pippen, Gasol – and both played along some regular players -- Odom, Kerr, Artest, Rodman.

Jordan changed the dynamic of the game, though, made it a worldwide phenomenon, just as Magic and Larry changed the very way the game was played as big men with sublime passing skills.

Bryant? He’s carried the torch rather than lit it, he is on the continuum that includes Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic and Larry.

I guess what I’m getting at is that it’s really apples and oranges and eras are eras and neither the twain shall meet.

It is fun to sit around and chatter about who is the greatest of all time and how it is determined.

To me?

I think right now the answer is there is no greatest of all time, there are great players from every era that we should celebrate in the moment for the skills they have and the joy they bring to fans who watch them.

One cannot be judged as “better” than another because circumstances are different every time, teammates are different, the game is different, the challenges of playing are different.

Kobe Bryant is a great, great basketball player, the best on the planet today; LeBron James is a great, great basketball player. So, too, were Jordan and Johnson and Bird and Robertson and Russell, Chamberlain and Jabbar.

We can’t compare and we shouldn’t.

We should just revel in what we have, remember what we had and appreciate that greatness comes in so many different forms.

There is no Greatest Of All Time.

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The Raptors? Well, the word I got from people who took in the entirety of Friday’s two free-agent sessions (I caught the final few minutes of the morning session, hardly long enough to gather an informed opinion) is that no one really stood out.

Maybe after today they’ll find the requisite bodies to fill out the summer league roster but the suggestion I was getting was that there really wasn’t anyone in one day who did enough to turn an awful lot of heads.

But, because I am an intrepid reporter, there are some good stories to tell and I’ll get to tell one in a piece I’ll work on after the Black Stars game.

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Hey, how about that ref in the Slovenia-USA World Cup game?

Think the fix was in?

When I was at the Raptors thing and was told the plucky Slovenes were up 2-0, I sent a note off to Rasho wondering if it was the greatest day in Slovenian football history.

By the time I got out and back home to do the question and answer thingy, it was 2-2 and no wonder I never heard back.

Big day in the football, though, wasn’t it?

Heard my first horns honking out here in the streets of Mississauga after the Serbia shocker over Germany and lived the USA angst with a couple of buddies over e-mail.

But the coolest part was sitting on the stool working and watching England-Algeria and watching the Three Lions flame out. Now, being of Old Blighty Blood, I took umbrage at the boring, somewhat disgraceful performance of the lads and, I have to tell you, if I see one more shot of Fabio Capello all natty and angst-filled, I may throw something at the TV.

It’s all well and good to be emotional but it’d be all better if he got the boys to go forward a wee bit.

Anyway, I’d kind of forgotten how much I really love the World Cup and the emotion and passion it evokes.

Listening to handful of Algerian fans cheer wildly, seeing a group of Brits sullen and dejected and hearing those horns honk was neat.

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Mail? Got quite a bit but there’s lots of duplication and room for some more so click here and we’ll see what we can get to this afternoon and this evening.

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Action: Story breaks somewhere that the Cleveland Cavaliers have called the Raptors about a Bosh sign-and-trade.

Reaction: Duh! Look, every team is going to make a call, if they don’t they aren’t doing their jobs.

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Okay, there’s a kitchen to clean, some grass to cut and a deck to sweep as well as a Ghana game to watch and a couple of stories to write.

You all have a fun day, too.

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Comments

[Lorie]

Wasn't the above-named deliverer of "insightful remarks" supposed to be vacating this particular spot in the cybeworld for about a year and a half? Talk about dashed hopes. :)

[Jeff]

Can you please provide some insider news already jeez!

[ab111]

Rodman a regular player? 2 time defensive player of the year, 7 time all defensive first team, led the league in field goal percentage 1 year, led the league in rebounding 7 consecutive years (an NBA record) but all "regular" players do that. While I do agree with the article, I do not agree with Rodman being a regular player. He should be in the hall of fame when he is eligible.

[Peter]

My memory may be off, but I don't remember MJ being quite as selfish as Kobe. Even in the most recent game, Kobe took all kinds of ill advised shots, and missed, and I don't remember Michael being quite the same way. I know he was selfish, but I think that Michael trusted and used his team a little more and better then MJ did. But hey... that's just one more opinion, not fact! :)

[mike emmanuel]

An interesting discussion for sure. For my money, I pick Jordan ANYDAY. Doug basically lays it out though, it's to difficult to compare as they played in very different eras.. totally different players.

Okay bloggers...

Who would you start your franchise with in todays game?.... a twenty one year old Jordan coming out of North Carolina, or an 18 year old rookie from Lower Marian ?...... Hypothetically if they were both coming out today?...

Thanks for a great year Doug!

[Boko]

Andrew, your list is pretty good, but I'd add Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Karl Malone & Scottie Pippen to it. I'll also throw in that most people don't realize that Larry Bird is the only player in the top 10 in 4 key career playoff stats (rebs, points, assists & steals). That's my nominee for GOAT! (Blocks was the only other stat taken into consideration.)

[AA]

Kobe was a better 3pt shooter than Jordan but to Jordan's midrange game was better. Jordan's post-up game was far superior to Kobe's. Jordan was more explosive, athletic, played better defence. If Jordan hadn't retired twice he'd probably have 10 rings as well. There's no comparison.

[AA]

I forgot to mention Jordan played with a frontline of Rodman and Bill Wennington/Brian Williams/Luc Longley while Kobe played with Shaq and Bynum/Gasol. If jordan was playing in Kobe's place in this series, they would've swept Boston probably. I'd like to see Bryant average 20ppg at age 40 as well.

[Pain777PAS]

You rightly stated Doug there is no greatest of all time but you will have your favorites. Kobe is the best in the game today because of supporting cast. I'll be honest Wade and Lebron would have done the same thing if not better with every piece that Kobe has. Phil Jackson coaching Kobe has helped him a lot. I can tell you this right now, if Lebron James was coached by Phil Jackson Lebron would have won already maybe even going for a repeat right now. Michael Jordan is my favorite player overall because he seemed to be able to do what few can do not just score but make definitive plays down the stretch to win games. Game 7 of this years finals was won by Ron Artest playing like an all star which he was, Odom which was a team leader at a time in Miami stepped up, Gasol who ran his own team stepped up. I think you see where I'm going with this. Shaquille Oneal when he was young. Rookie of the year, perenial allstar, Went to the finals in his first or second year in league with Penny Hardaway and a few good 3 point shooters like Dwight Howard today. Look Kobe is great but he is not that good a shooter. He has alot of trick shots but takes so many bad shots that he thinks he can make because he thinks he is Jordan. For the first few years of his career with the afro he had his tongue out just like MJ. Come on are we that shallow. Lebron is the guy that I think if he gets an experienced coach who makes him post his man and devour defences with the forgotten mid-range game he will become the most dominant SF since Larry Bird. The only thing that makes Koby better than others is his ego and guts. He thinks that he can make the big shot and does most of the time because he's been doing that his whole career. Sometimes you feel that an open Fisher would be a better option but he refuses to pass the ball to a open Kerr or Paxton like MJ. I just don't like his game his numbers and shooting percentage just don't show me he is as great as everyone makes him out to be. You know why MJ is so astonishing because of the defence that he had to deal with and the percentages that he put up. That is why he is considered so great no one has as much attention and no one split double teams and dealt with triple teams and could get buckets like that man MJ. I don't know what people are smoking because he is the most arrogant man and I speak of MJ but really like Grektsky, Lemieux, Montana, Brady, Messier, in all honesty Bonds and I. Suzuki because these guys have the numbers and Championships to prove their greatness and the video tape to prove it. To me in some ways I may get a lot of hate for this but Nash even after winning 2 MVPs and is Hall of fame bound is underated. I mean look at his efficiency at his height and age and has just as much attention only you can stop what you can't see and that man shoots like .500 from the field and .400 from 3pt line and like 90% from the freethrow line. He is a defensive liability yes but he is such a benefit to any club and his court vision is only rivaled by J. Kidd, Stockton and the great Magic Johnson. Look Lebron will take over once he gets a coach that he respects and will learn to respect the game a bit more and I think as maturity comes he will be better than we even can imagine. Kobe is great deserving of several accolades now in the top 10 all time is some minds but I think he had tons of help from coaching to dominant bigmen. Luc Longley? Cartwright? Pippen was good because he played and learned the game from MJ once MJ was gone so was Pippen in the latter years of his career and it was obvious. Jordan made everyone better. Kobe gets bailed out by great talent then takes the last shot and gets called a hero. Without Pau and Artest and Odom Kobe cannot win. I'd say the same about MJ with Pippen, Rodman and Kukoc. However, when they were gone MJ was spectacular with amazing stats. Kobe had high scoring average with mediocre shooting percentages like Iverson. The only thing that Kobe is definitively consistent at is clutch shots and free throws. He is streaky but so are alot of great players.