Bosh dithers still, the kids win and a blast from the coaching past

I’m sure you all saw or heard the Bryan quotes yesterday about Bosh and sign-and-trades and how the Raptors would work with him to get something done but only if it made sense to Toronto.

Not a whole lot newsworthy, it’s been that way for quite some time now and there were no startling revelations. There is, however, a growing sense of impatience tempered with a bit of frustration around the hierarchy; at least that’s the sense I’m getting.

They are impatient that Bosh seems to be waiting to be “the other guy” to someone somewhere after telling all and sundry he wanted to be the man, and the level of frustration comes from the fact they can’t get a read on what he’s thinking because he’s not talking.

Now, I’m sure when it’s all said and done some sign-and-trade deal will work itself out somewhere -- although there is no way in the world they are taking four years and $50-plus million of Luol Deng so put that right out of your mind – and the feeling is it’ll be done by the end of the week.

But the subtle, and not-so subtle – shots across the bow are telling Bosh and his agent that the Raptors are going to take care of themselves first and foremost, they have some say in what’s going to happen and they won’t be held hostage by a guy who’s bolting after seven years in Toronto.

I would expect that in the end Bryan won’t cut off his nose to spite his face but the message he’s delivering needed to be delivered.

And if brings this stuff to a conclusion a bit more quickly, I’ll be the first in line to thank him.

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Of course you know there’d be a couple of guys who’d slip my mind when I was talking about the mid-level exception and the guy I was told the Raptors are thinking about making an offer to.

Now, I again caution nothing is done until it’s done and these are talks that are progressing. But a couple of guys sidled up to me Monday, and, even though I like sidlers about as much as Elaine Benes, I had to listen.

And they dropped three more on me:

Travis Outlaw, Linas Kleiza and Josh Childress. Nothing more than names to put on the list because no one connected with the Raptors is about to divulge anything specific at the moment.

Kleiza’s the interesting one to me because there was interest in him a year ago before the Raptors made all their moves and he headed off to Europe.

He’s a restricted free agent but he could very well be the guy you should be debating.

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So, the kids.

Easy win over in Germany this morning for the Canadian under-17 world championships, they drilled Korea 95-74 in the first laugher of the four games they’ve played.

The win runs their record to 3-1, assures them a spot in the quarter-finals and, just as important, also means they won’t get the Americans in the first round of the elimination portion of the tournament.

Junior Lomomba led Canada with 20, Dyshawn Pierre continues to have an excellent tournament as he had 14 points and 10 boards while Kevin Pangos and Olivier Hanlan each had 11.

We’ll be talking to a player or two and hopefully coach Roy Rana later this morning to get more details but these kids really have to be feeling good about themselves and Canada Basketball has to be feeling good about its programs, too.

I have no idea of the calibre of the competition but beating Spain and Australia, especially by coming back late in the fourth quarters of close games and pulling away speaks to something about this group.

But quite aside from wins and losses – and don’t get me wrong, wins are great – it’s the experience these teens are getting that’s the most important thing. They are learning how the international game is played, they are learning the significance of playing for their country and that has to count for something substantial as their careers roll on.

We’ll try to take a deeper look at what it all means after the preliminary round ends Wednesday and there’s a day off to collect thoughts and take a breath.

But before then, check back on our regular sports page later today for the stuff about this morning’s easy win.

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Mail? May as well start the weekly plea for submissions. Click here to send ‘em but don’t forget that anything to do too specifically with free agency might be rendered moot by the weekend

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Shaq to Atlanta? Why not.

Guess that’s what the reports are out there today and if he’s going to be a backup, that’s an odd spot.

Not sure what it means for the entirely functional Zaza Pachulia (a fave only because of the name) and if the Hawks are still going to run stuff through Joe Johnson, doesn’t Shaq get in the way?

Who knows if it’ll happen, just not sure it’s the greatest of fits.

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The stuff you learn when the phone rings out of nowhere.

Just got done a quick radio hit last night at dinner when I answer a call that yields this little nugget about a guy some old-time Irregulars might recall.

Seems our old friend Butch Carter is going to get serious about getting back in the game and he’s hooked himself up with none other than William Wesley, aka World Wide Wes, in an effort to land some new gig.

Now, you know that I think the world of Butch as a basketball coach and a guy. He was an outstanding strategist and coached a game as well as anyone who’s ever done that gig in Toronto and I’ve thought for a while that he should have landed somewhere.

World Wide Wes, as some might know, seems to be a facilitator extraordinaire, he was hooked up with LeBron and a whole raft of others.

Put his connections with Butch’s abilities and I bet something happens for Mr. Carter.

Which would be good.

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Since today seems pretty quiet (oh, it’ll be Netherlands 2, Uruguay 0 and I’m sorry to my Uruguayan buddy) I figure late afternoon is when we get some breaking news just to mess up a slow day.

Or not.

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Comments

[Kevin]

Lots of rumours floating around that BC is going to sign Ryan Gomes with the MLE. One question: can he rebound and defend? Scratch that; DOES he rebound and defend?

Blogger's note: The "rumour" is that they have some interest and not that anything is close to being done.

[Ben]

Doug,

I've wondered this a few times, but do you think the Raps would/should take on Luol Deng in a sign and trade if it meant that they could get, say, Noah and Gibson back?

I personally think it would be worth it, despite the high cost. Noah would be a perfect compliment to Bargs, all of the main pieces would still be young, and the team would still have some flexibility in terms of trades (Hedo, expirers, etc;). Yes Deng's deal would be costly, but if the team really is willing to dip into the tax, they could still have a very serviceable player.

Thoughts if you're TO?

Blogger's note: Nope. Eventually you'd have to pay Noah and Gibson and Deng's contract vis-a-vis his production is horrific

[John S]

Butch Carter? I would have thought that he blacklisted himself from the league when he sued Marcus Camby during the playoffs and when he undermined Glen Grunwald by demanding his job title while he was still working for him. Maybe he was misunderstood but I would think that these issues would keep teams from hiring him. I know that's going back 10 years but it wasn't like he was a kid making mistakes and he's matured.

And in Amare I think that the Knicks overpaid for a player who probably isn't worth the extra $30-40 mil that they would have had to pay Lee. Amare finishes well but how many of those finishes should be credited to Nash getting him the ball in the right position? And with his knee and eye issues, there's a pretty good chance that his contract becomes dead weight in a few years.

Got my fingers crossed that the Raps can sign Childress. With the Hawks overpaying Johnson ($119 mil for Joe Johnson... really?) and their attendance issues, I can't imagine that they would or could spend $35 mil or whatever the 5 year MLE would be for Childress. The question is if he wants to sign here because I'd imagine that there would be a lot of teams interested in him at that price. I think that Outlaw and Kleiza for the MLE would be a stretch.

[Steven in Fredericton]

Doug why haven't we heard any rumours about the mid level free agent the Raptors have their eyes on? Wouldn't an agent want to "leak" some info to create a market or is it pretty transparent in NBA circles of who has demand and who doesn't?

[Manny]

Hey Doug,

With Amare's agreement to sign in NY, does that mean the Knicks are no longer pursuing CB4 as he's openly said that he will not play center.

Blogger's note: Call 'em what you will, I think Bosh and Stoudemire could play together

[Derick]

Doug! I'm surprised you never put your two cents on Amare to the Knicks

Do you think he may not be running around with the Parker to NY rumor?

Blogger's note: I'm sure the Knicks would love to get an all-star point guard. Who wouldn't?

[Dan W]

That would be great if the Raptors could sign any of those 3 wing players.
Like the Seinfeld reference too!

[kelsie]

Hey Doug,

Isn't it rather silly for the Raptors brass to be taking shots at Bosh? They were never destined to have any control of this situation and I don't think Bosh has any obligation to be checking in with them so Colangelo can then plan his course of action.

The GM's "impatience" is simply a product of the situation he is in. If he wants to call Bosh's bluff and let him walk he certinaly can but to get nothing back for Bosh is a conclusion that BC cannot afford and would only be an indictment on himself. He has no choice but to wait and to take these "shots from the bow" via the media should be viewed the same way by fans that the media portrays Bosh for his twittering. It won't be that way but I had to comment on that.

As for the MLE, if Klezia's restricted doesn't it put a deal in a tenuous situation as they would have to wait for Bosh to get done and then hope Denver doesn't match? I REALLY am holding out hope that it is for Outlaw as he is simply a better player than Klezia but I wonder if all of these obstructions would even make Kleiza worth pursuing.

Do you think the smart money is on him as the player they are targeting?

[evenkeel]

Seeing the two rookies today I was impressed by their humility, and their down-to-earthness seemed genuine (I guess that's the case with many rookies before they get bamboozled by the bright lights and celebrity). I hope they develop their full potential and find their niche in this league of men. Doug, what are your first impressions of these two men? (and it doesn't have to be purely basketball related)

Blogger's note: Seem to be good young men. Seemingly level-headed and respectful

[john]

Good news (to me anyway) that the raptors are digging in their heels about the CB sign & trade. When they didnt trade CB at the trade deadline they knew what they were rolling the dice that the Raps could finish strong and CB would see the merits of staying. Injuries and late night outings put that scenario to bed.
As the current roster looks, and with them picking up what looks like is another wing, who do you see playing center this year? Could Reggie back up Bargs? Is Amir big enough? It seems like they have 3 PF's and 2 tweeners...

[Grant]

17.6 points and 7.3 rebounds per game for $10 000 000 is "horrific." How would you describe the contract/production rate of Turkoglu or Kevin Garnet, or....?

[Pain777PAS]

Wow the names added to the list are scary. Josh Childress would be the only one I'd consider and maybe Kleiza. Why couldn't Outlaw play significant minutes for the Clippers? We'll just have to wait and see if Brian can get Parker or something right now or just trade Bosh for future draft picks or something. What do you think Doug? Shouldn't Brian just focus and rebuilding, period?

Blogger's note: Future picks from a team with a good record are bound to be garbage

[coachd]

Hi Doug,
I know how much you hate speculating, but in this instance what, in your opinion, would be the best case scenario for the Raps regarding Bosh?
Thanks.

Blogger's note: Scola, Battier, a pick and maybe another player from Houston

[Ren]

A heavyweight meanie in Kleiza (who can shoot and score). He is a bit of a glue guy, isn't he? Sounds like a good call to me. ALthough, any of the other boys would be fine as well. Does Kleiza take Turk's Spot?

[gordonzo]

Doug, is there a reason you avoided bringing up the signing of Amare Stoudemire? Pretty big news no?

Blogger's note: Yeah, pretty big. Other stuff on the plate. Maybe when it's all said and done.

[kelsie]

17.6 points and 7.3 rebounds per game for $10 000 000 is "horrific." How would you describe the contract/production rate of Turkoglu or Kevin Garnet, or....?

Interesting and excellent observation.

Makes even more sense if Turkolgu is not present, as should be.

[Andrew]

Hey Doug ... with Wade and CB4 doing documentaries on the entire free agent process; cameras following them everywhere, what are the chances that Grunt TV will follow you from place to place over the next few days documenting you living out the historical summer of 2010? Imagaine ... Doug in the scrum, Doug exiting the building, Doug mowing the lawn ....

Blogger's note: We're trying to get it in development with a couple of studios.

[DougG]

"They are impatient that Bosh seems to be waiting to be “the other guy” to someone somewhere after telling all and sundry he wanted to be the man, and the level of frustration comes from the fact they can’t get a read on what he’s thinking because he’s not talking."
.
Bosh probably has to maintain the pretense that he is a number 1 guy, worthy of number 1 money, not only to get his money, but to remain consistent with the reason he is leaving, Toronto failed to build a team around him, the number 1 guy. Obviously, the big mistake the Raptors made the last few years is trying to build a team around a guy who only plays second fiddle. I'm astounded that he has decided to insult Colangelo and the organization on the way out, not only by saying they will never be a winner, but by the way he has handled it. It is sort of like he took a sword to his own reputation. Maybe he has been reading too much Ignatius?

[dribbles]

I don't know why Outlaw didn't get more minutes on the Clippers last season (I think he may have been coming off an injury) but he was a signficant piece for a pretty good Blazers team a few seasons back. He's still pretty young and if he's healthy I'd grab him.

[james]

Outlaw, now there's a guy who might help us improve. Childress looks too much like Phil Lynott, the lead singer of Thin Lizzy so no thanks...Kleiza, not bad but no more Euros please...

[Bobby]

I agree with you on Shaq not fitting in with the Hawks. I think Hawks management is still having nightmares of Dwight Howard and the Magic destroying them and they think this is a solution.

Having said that, where do you think Shaq would be a good fit? Celtics? Spurs? These are the only playoff teams I can see where there could be a fit.

Blogger's note: The former more than the latter

[Pain777PAS]

This team will need to have chemistry on their side to survive because when we look at Davis, Weens, Demar, and Alabi there are the future Raptor core and absolutely green. Turk, Andrea, Jose and Jack are the Raptor core. Amir Johnson is the bonafide clean up man and I THINK he'll do his part. PJ behind the bench with Triano should help this team because he will be respected more than Triano. That being said if PJ is allowed to be Larry Brown honest with this team they may be demoralized right out the gate. Summer league should help these young guys and I truly saw some things in Weens, Demar and Amir that I liked. Andrea could turtle if Davis plays hard around the rim and garners respect. Alabi could do the same. Jack and Jose situation 24 and 24 mins is smart and stupid like you've got to manage the flow of the game. Jack is a better defender Jose is a better passer. I don't know what Turk will give us lets hope that he likes someone on this team so that he can have a guy that he can make that connection with. Doug the hope is that this team gets better and draft picks was a stupid comment I know but what choice do you have? Frustration is picking up because everyone is signing elsewhere. No Amare, no Dirk, no Joe, no Lebron, no Wade, no Bosh, no Boozer, no Parker do we have to go on? I feel like management needs to just develop a chemistry and trust among the players and organism approach as a team without an allstar and see if they can sell it to the team if an allstar emerges well then so be it.

[Dmonick]

Am I the only one finding it hard to get excited about 2 possible 31+ year olds in Battier and Scola?

I really like Deng as a player though, his numbers are pretty comparable to Bargnanis, but that salary is real tough to swallow. I still think the Bulls will cave if Wade wanted Bosh in Chicago and BC demanded Noah.

[Parminder]

Doug, which is worse - Amare (who had a scorcher of a year) at 5/100 or Joe Johnson at 6/120?

Blogger's note: Do I have to pick one? I'll go with Amare's 'cause of the injuries he's had and the lack of a PG in New York right now. They're both bad deals

[Michel G]

Grant's comment on Deng: "17.6 points and 7.3 rebounds per game for $10 000 000 is "horrific." How would you describe the contract/production rate of Turkoglu or Kevin Garnet, or....?". Actually, Deng will make the following over the last four year of his contract: $11,345,000, $12,325,000, $13,365,000, $14,275,000. For a player that hasn't been very healthy for the last few years, that's a lot of money. Chicago seems to be a nice destination for free agents this summer. But if they do sign two max free agents, how do they re-sing Rose and Noah when it's time for their contract extensions? Especially if they can't get rid of Deng.