Hot enough for you? And Yao's a Hall of Famer for sure

We are all over the map today, folks.

I can’t believe we keep pumping stuff out five days a week and you seem to be all right with it.

Stick with me, there’ll be basketball sometime. I hope.

-

Okay, this is officially ridiculous.

It’s like 7:30 a.m. and it’s already over 30 C and they are still talking about:

Hottest.

Day.

Ever.

Yuck.

So what would be the very worst job you could have on a day like today?

Paving driveways?

Roofing?

Working as a dry cleaner?

How delightful would any of those be?

I was trying to remember the hottest I’ve ever been and while the summer I spent directing traffic in a huge, wide open parking lot at Marineland might be up there but, hands down, it was the ’92 Barcelona Olympics.

I seem to recall it was about 40 every day, unrelenting heat and sun.

And, of course, the units in the condos/apartments/hovels that housed us were not air conditioned and until you’ve spent time with a few hundred journalists from all over the world – and each with his or her own unique idea of personal hygiene – you haven’t truly experienced one of the circles of hell.

There was a mall right across from where we were staying and the anchor store was a Carrefour, as I recall, which is something akin to a European Walmart. You could get delicious Spanish ham on one aisle and tires an aisle over.

But you know what you couldn’t get?

Fans.

Big, cooling, fans.

Guess they sold out to the locals, or the early arriving journalists and the idea of cooling down our rooms on our own dime went quickly by the board.

And we all spent three weeks dreaming of air conditioning.

-

A digression for the ages:

How very cool is this.

Today’s July 21, right?

And I see in the early light of day that the space shuttle has landed back on earth for the very last time, ending a 30-year program.

Well, it was another July 21 and …

Not sure the date symmetry was planned or not but it is neat, isn’t it?

Now, you may have to be, um, Of A Certain Age to fully appreciate that, given where things have come in the last 42 years but that was a moment some us will never forget.

I wasn’t what you’d call a true Space Geek back in those days but I do remember sitting clued to the TV to watch that, I did once do a science project detailing how the ships would “dock” in space and I still find it kind of fascinating.

Anyway, history lesson for the day is over.

-

Hey, there is real basketball going on as it turns it turns out.

It’s the Canadian junior women down in Chile at their world championships that begin today.

Canada’s in a group with China (who they play later this morning), Italy and Egypt and it’s the same deal as it was for the men, top three move on to the second round, three more games there and, perhaps, elimination quarter-finals.

I have to fully admit I don’t know an awful lot about this group of young women but I do know there’s a great, and perhaps greater, sense of optimism on where the women’s programs are going than there is for the men.

Yes, they swim in a somewhat shallower pool but if the end result is winning, who cares what the competition’s like. It is what it is, you play who’s in front of you and see where you stand.

We’ll try to catch up daily with this team – I can’t even figure out the time zones yet but I figure Chile has to be on Atlantic time at worse – and the tournament goes for about a week and half so there’s lots of time to get to know them.

For now, check out the Canada Basketball website if you like.

-

There. That make you feel any better if you’re around these parts?

-

Baseball for a second, since we have no NBA?

I wondered about Travis Snider the second day I saw him, which was in the Jays clubhouse at Fenway and he was sitting there reading a book.

A hard cover book. One without a lot of pictures.

And it turns out it’s part of the reason for his resurgence since coming back from the minors, or so he told us last night after the game.

The book?

The Way of Baseball, by ex-Jay Shawn Green.

Said Snider:

“It put a lot of things in perspective. A lot of things I read there made some sense as a hitter, as a player. Understanding the mindset we go through whether it’s our ego or the thoughts that go through your head.”

Now, most clubhouses pre-game are the scene of raucous dominos games, some TV watching, a lot of typing on some kind of tablet or phone; there’s usually very little serious reading going on but if guys get wind of what Snider’s doing, maybe it’ll start a trend.

Nah.

-

There may not be basketball, but there are basketball questions and if you’ve got one about the game or anything else (and I don’t mind the anything else stuff) drop it here ‘cause it’s time to click, write, send and get the weekend going.

Q: Simple question but probably can be much debated, does Yao Ming go to the HOF?

J W, Columbus

A: I’m sure there will be debate in some circles but there won’t be in the ones I travel in.

Five years from now, he has to be a slam dunk (pardon the atrocious pun) first-ballot selection.

Now, understand this first off: The basketball Hall of Fame is far more than just NBA, too much perhaps. It’s about the colleges, the international game, the coaches, the officials; the selection process is shrouded in too much secrecy – one committee decides who’s on the ballot, another decides who gets in and we don’t know the makeup of either of them – but I do know they take great delight in looking at big picture angles and no one over the last decade has done more for the game in the big picture than Yao.

For what he alone did to bring the game to the billions in China, for the true global icon he’s become, I say he has to go into the Hall.

Yes, his on-court career was ruined by injury but even then, the guy had sublime skills for a man of his size. He could shoot, pass, defend and run like few other 7-5 guys ever could, or will.

I’m a big Yao fan and I cannot see a reason he shouldn’t be honoured.

-

I was going to dump this in the IGBT last night during the seventh inning but I figure so few of you were there it would have had little impact.

This might be the coolest rendition of the song ever.

Enjoy.

-

 

Comments

[John S]

I agree that Yao will be a Hall of Famer... not sure if he'll be first ballot but based on his impact on the international game (and his short impact on the NBA) he'll get in.

Now could anyone explain to me how Bill Walton was voted into the Hall of Fame within 6 years of retirement? I could sort of see how it's based on his overall dominance at UCLA and his first few years in the NBA but I think that's a stretch. What really doesn't make any sense to me is how he was voted as one of the top 50 players in NBA history...

[skiff]

I'll help start the Yao HoF debate. Franky I don't care if he get's in or not, because it really doesn't affect me in any way shape or form, and I don't that he will. However....

- Never even got to a Conference Championship, let alone a League one in his career

- With his combo of size, skill, etc., I was always a little shocked he didn't utterly dominate his position. I have vague memories of him getting pushed around a number of times when it mattered, and it's hard not to hold him to account for that, given his combo of size & skill

- Now that he's done, what if 5 years from now, there are no pros from China in the NBA, they have a forgetable national team with no elite level players, and national interest moves on to another sport with little in the "development" pipeline. Does this diminish Yao's impact? Were fans in China big on basketball, or just fervent nationalists? I think it might be worth pondering?

- Should he go into the Hall as a "builder"? It seems strange to me to put a guy into the HoF as a player, alongside some incredible players, wih long resumes of statistical dominance & contention (not just the ones who won, but people like Stockton, Malone, Barkley, etc who never got all the way to the championship, but were in contention and played for championships for much of their careers)? Take away his birthplace, andd what does that leave you HoF wise? If you support Yao, do you support T-Mac? He had a longer career, had some incredible & dominant years, yet never got past the 2nd round, and never played for a championship. I know it's not totally their fault, but they're a factor for sure.

- You can't put him in because of what he "might" have done had he not been injured most of the last 4 years. Then anyone can get in. And really, what is his career total games?

Again, I'm not attacking Yao, an excellent player, and so unique it'll be a while until we see all that in one package again. But automatic 1st ballot HoF? i dunno.

Discuss.....

[ed]

I wonder if Solo will be put into the hall of fame for the impact he will have on all of Nigeria?

[doug]

@JohnS.....I can explain you to why Bill Walton was voted in within 6 years, it's simple he was one of the best all around centers that ever played....plus he was in my opinion the best passing center that ever played the game, his b-ball I.Q. was far superior to anyone else he was on the court with and he was a force defensively, he was the model you would take and build a prototype from....his career was marred by injuries, the Blazers drafted him and for the first 2 years he had a myriad of injuries he moreorless never played, then 3rd year he did and from a team that never made the playoffs the 2 previous years they won the title, a team no one even thought would make the playoffs....so when he could play he was one of the best...and again he showed his smarts and b-ball knowledge with the Celts when his body was shot but his mind wasn't....he should have easily been voted in and is in fact in my personal top 25 players of all-time...

[Nick Kajganich]

Why is it that even the cars in S.C. appear to have muttets in the snow?

[Jeff D]

Nice picture Doug...would have been better if the car was your smelly Ford Focus though.

[Nick Kajganich]

Excuse the typo.... I was enjoying my own humour too much while typing It should read Mullets, not muttets.

[Vsem]

Wasn't the moon landing on July 20?

Blogger's note: Walk was 21st

[Lorie]

Hey Doug!
Well, as far as this blog goes, I'm not missing the Raptors very much at all. Thanks for the recent smorgasboard of tantalizing tidbits to digest in your blogs lately. Not that you don't entertain on a daily basis, but when you're freed up to go in all kinds of different directions topic-wise, well, let's face it: the Raptors can't be relied on to serve up stimulating storylines every day! The Buck O'Neill video was touching. And hopefully generated a few clicks on Google from the young'uns. So, you remember watching the moon landing? Do you remember if after see it on TV that you went outside and looked up at the lunar surface trying to spot the astronauts? Nah. Me neither. :)

[John]

Skiff, been to China, Hoops there is huge. The womens pro-league is televised. Basketball hoops and courts are at a very large amount of the factories. Nice courts too, glass backboards and painted and coated cement surface so that it is not too slippery. Very well done. I was incredibly surprised by what i saw.
-
Much like China's interest in dominating the Olympics (which is just a matter of time), if they decide to get good at Basketball it will be nothing to throw a billion dollars at 3-4 million selected individuals to train them to get real, real good. If 3% of their population took up basketball, there would be more people playing basketball than live in our whole country. Yao was hugely important in the building of the game, and it is just a matter of time before the next star comes out of their country, and the next one...

[D-Mac Ottawa]

Yeah but, what time zone were they in on the moon?
You were mentioning miserable, hot jobs. Not only hot and miserable, I simply cannot imagine how l-o-n-g a day must be and how s-l-o-w time must creep by for the road crew people who have to stand there on the sizzling pavement, flipping a stop/slow sign, next to the trucks dumping steaming asphalt and the steamrollers spreading it at your feet... By comparison, if you're enjoying a cold drink and couple of yuks, an hour is gone in a New Yawk minute.
Here's maybe the best reminder I've seen that time is a tricky devil: "If a man has a watch, he can tell you what time it is. But if he has two, he's no longer sure."
All I know is, it flies. And our cars will be looking like that cool number before we know what hit us. Live it up! Cheers.

[The J]

@Skiff - I suppose your debate is sort of like, if you could ignore everything outside of the NBA court (international play, development of international/china interest, humanitarian), would he still be a HOFer? Well some stat's for the arguement:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31188/yao-mings-impressive-stats-in-brief-career

And some key ones:
"He finished with career averages of 19.0 points and 9.2 rebounds, including two seasons when he averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds. He retires sixth in Rockets history in points (9,247) and rebounds (4,494), and trails only Olajuwon in blocks.
From 2002-09 -- the first seven seasons of his career -- no center scored more points than Yao, who also ranked in the top four at the position in rebounds, blocks and field goals."

So I would see that, for a particular seven year window, he was arguably the best centre in the game. But at any given time he may have been only second best - first behind Shaq, and later behind Dwight (treating Tim Duncan as a PF not a C). No Finals or conference finals appearances, no MVPs, and I don't believe he ever led the league in any major statistical category.

However, if you randomly pick a recent HOFer like Chris Mullin, how does he compare? Many of the knocks would be the same (no statistical dominance, never an MVP, Champion, and his greatness was over a smaller window of his career). And yet Chris Mullin is now in the HOF (second or third ballot but still). So without other accomplishments Yao would look like a second or third ballot HOFer. With them, he is a first ballot with no debate. Funny though, that he will likely go in alongside Shaq. Especially as Yao was once sold as being the solution to Shaq no one ever found (except maybe foul shots, and donuts). I can imagine when they go into the HOF this debate will start over as they contrast Shaq's many achievements to Yao's. But then again Shaq has gone on the record as saying if Yao had stayed healthy he would have gone down as one of the games top-five best centers.

[John S]

@Doug
Interesting comments. I suppose the reason I brought up Bill Walton was that he was the closest comp that I could come up with to Yao... a big man who was dominant for the short period of time that he was healthy.

I think that the Hall of Fame debate comes down to dominance AND longevity. In my opinion, a player in the hall of fame needs to have both. While Walton was dominant, I think that his career was far too short to be named a top 50 player of all time let alone a HOFer. Bob McAdoo was arguably just as dominant over a longer time frame but it took him over 20 years to make it in the hall. Bernard King had a few amazing years in the 80s but will likely never make it in. Can anyone say that Penny Hardaway is a HOFer? At most, Walton was dominant for 200 games... in my opinion, that is just too short of a time frame to support a Hall of Fame career.

[Matt G]

Today would have been a perfect day for another IGBT. Might even get better attendance 'cause there's no way anyone is outside.

[doug]

@John S another fact you are missing is one Doug stated initially in the blog...the NBA HOF is more a all encompassing one...Walton was voted NCAA player of the year 3 times in a era in which players never left early he was utterly dominating as he was during his time he played in the NBA....longetivity to me has no bearing whatsoever to me in regards to the value a players career has....there are many factors that go into a career, health, personal issues,struggles, teams played for, teammates,organization played for etc....longevity to me is irrelevant all it does is not only reward consistency but also mediocrity, to me their is no correlation between excellence and longevity...Bo Jackson is considered by many to be the best athlete of all-time , yet his career was cut short by injury...as was Waltons , when he played he was the best and should be rewarded as such in my opinion..

[skiff]

Intersting stuff, no doubt. But again, I say Yao is a builder. Even if China starts pumping out good players which I agree, would probably be pretty easy for them to do with their financial and human resources...thanks for the info Lorie), I'm still not sold on his playing career. No international tournament victories, no deep NBA runs, just above average stats in the regular season. Again, not knocking him because he was a great player for certain, but maybe I'm old school and I really expect a lot from my HoFers! No way I put Chris Mullin in there (btw, Walton is a no brainer, just to chime in on the other thread...of course he goes in there....sublime player, and important role on 2 champs...plus the NCAA dominance). But all leagues seem to have watered down their requirements so everyone can feel happy now, not just hoops.

And again, I know this is unfair to hold against him, but I always felt that even when healthy, he just didn't put his stamp on the game and dominate in a way that his size and skills should have dominated. He often left me wanting, and it felt like there was more sizzle then steak because of the attention he got because of where he was from, and not about how he plowed through the league. An unfair standard I know, he's not the kind of guy to play like that, he played his way. Unfair yes, but it's sports and I don't have to be fair because it's all rather meaningless.

Here's one to consider for the puck heads that I've debated a couple of times. Is Lindros a Hockey HoFer? Statistical dominance before injuries slowed him. Not a lot of big game appearances, but critical player on Junior Nats and Canada Cup winners. Yet even with that it feels like something was missing....

[J]

@ed:

If he had the same impact Yao did? Sure.

But I'm guessing you've never heard of one Hakeem Olajuwon. What you're saying is sillier than asking if Kleiza will be elected into the HoF for his impact in Lithuania.

[skiff]

BTW - for argument's sake. Bosh has played 8 seasons now in the NBA. Has an Olympic Gold and a World Championship (more than Yao), has played in one finals (more than Yao), and is a career 20pts / 9.3 reb (Yao = 19 / 9.2). Bosh has played 586 over that time, Yao played 486 (less than 6 complete seasons).

Is Bosh a HoFer if he puts up two more years at the same levels he has in the past?? I'm talking players here...I could care less about builders...that's just a marketing award!

hmmm......

[Dave T (Ottawa)]

For the record, I think Yao was a very fine basketball player. Not only that, but he was (and remains) a pioneer for basketball in China. Maybe he wouldn't make the NBA hall of fame (if there was one), but definitely should be in the basketball hall of fame.

One interesting thing I noticed. Andrea Bargnani should be a better rebounder, I think. It would help if he had a better nose for the ball. But the argument "Any 7-footer (especially a starter!!!!) should be able to get double-figure rebounds" is funny when you consider Yao Ming (who is notably over that height) averaged 9.2 for his career. Food for thought...

[John S.]

@ Doug

No no, I completely understand and see where you're coming from, I just respectfully disagree is all.

To counter your argument, I should mention Ralph Sampson, also a 3x NCAA player of the year who was also dominant for the first part of his NBA career. He was truly a revolutionary player, a 7'4" forward who had his career cut short by injuries. He was Kevin Garnett but 15 years prior. Like Walton, he was dominant in the college game and like Walton he was dominant in the NBA until his career was derailed by injuries. Yet Sampson will never make it to the Hall of Fame let alone any NBA Top 50 list and rightly so in my opinion. I believe that a HOFer has to sustain their excellence for more than parts of 4 seasons.

Anyways, although I completely disagree with you, I appreciate what you're saying. Cheers to the lack of trolls today.

[doug]

@John S yes we have to agree to disagree but I must say you using the Ralph Sampson argument well sort of strengthens my case...as there not even comparable in talent, not even close at all...I am starting to wonder if you ever saw Walton play? as if you had that Sampson analogy wouldn't have even been made, and Sampson was no Garnett either........ I have a better comparison for you, 2 of the top 10 centers of all-time were Walton who played 468 games in the NBA and Sabonis who remarkably enough played 470 games in the NBA, almost exact and both are in the HOF and no one ever disputes there right to be...but by your longevity argument and reasoning neither player should be...I think your still just not getting it, its Naismith's Basketball HOF, meaning universal...and good luck with that Sampson argument....and Yao will one day rightfully join them as well....and in regards to your longevity argument to bad in another sport this fellow never had you as his agent, as he won 283 games, and never was voted into the baseball HOF and rightfully so , he played 25 years and the most he ever received in vote total was 30%...longevity means squat or should...cheers...

[Jacques]

hey Doug, love the hot weather. I'm down in Myrtle Beach this week, today it hit around 114 F. As of now 10:45PM its 96 F. Yes, we were brave enough to put a round in this morning.

[m]

I've never understood why team accomplishments have any thing to do with a players accomplishments. I don't think that KG would be any less of a player if he had stayed in Minnesota and the team didn't win anything nor would Kobe be any less of a player on the Clippers.

[John S]

@ Doug

We're probably beating this to death but I feel like you're not getting my point.

So to clarify, I've said from the start that the Hall of Fame should reward a career with dominance AND longetivity. Longetivity is only one part of the equation... otherwise you're right, it might as well be called the Hall of Mediocrity filled with the A.C. Greens of the world.

Finer basketball minds than either you or I believed that Sampson was a once in a generation talent who would change the game of basketball. So with all due respect, your statement that Sampson and Walton were "not even close at all" is your opinion, not fact. Facts are that they were both 3x NCAA POYs and were dominant in their first few years in the NBA. Sure Walton won a title but Sampson was 2 games away from the same. Their bodies of work are factually similar (not exact, but similar enough). I will never argue that Sampson should be in the HOF, I'm just supporting my argument that Walton is not worthy.

Sabonis had a much larger and unprecedented body of work prior to his NBA career. 14 dominant years in Europe with multiple international titles which makes me scratch my head as to how you could misinterpret my straight forward argument. I never once said anything about only the NBA counts... I merely said that I feel as though you need to be dominant for a sustained period of time to merit HOF status and in my opinion Walton's NCCA+NBA career was too short.

I vehemently disagree with your quote that "longevity means squat or should" but to each their own. Since you've brought up baseball, by your reasoning Jose Bautista is a HOFer.

Anyways, we'll have to agree to diagree... it's been fun debating. Have a wonderful weekend!

[doug]

@John S i do get your point I just don't get the part about longevity and in regards to Bautista what if he hit 60+ home runs in a season in the post-steroid era??....an interesting discussion it would be.....as for the major difference and I mean major difference between Walton and Sampson is this...earlier I mentioned about Walton's on-court I.Q, well there was also his will to win and his ability to make others around him better and don't forget his Bruins won 88 straight games and Walton never lost a basketball for 5 years straight, and he won 2 titles in the NBA whereas Sampson was in the eyes many a classic underachiever in fact in the eyes of arguably the greatest center ever this is what he said about Sampson..and Chamberlain was Barkley before Barkley, and Shaq before Shaq he spoke his mind and wasn't shy about it, this is what he thought of Sampson and many others thought the same, he just wasn't driven , ..

Critics complained that he never developed a strong low-post game consistent with his physical skills. One of his harshest judges was Wilt Chamberlain, who called him "my number-one pick for biggest waste of ability."

thats why i say there not comparable Walton was driven and was a winner whereas Sampson had talent, ability just wasted it all