Making the case for the best and Shaq's debut

Nice honour for Robbie Alomar, no?

First guy to ever have his number retired by TOD and if you’re going to do it, you may as well do it for him.

Quite aside from my basic aversion to retiring numbers – I think far too many teams do it far too often – I can get behind this one because there is no doubt in my mind that Alomar is the best position player to ever play for the Jays.

I was doing a little bit of baseball writing back in his heyday and the things that guy could do were unparalleled. He simply “thought” the game better than anyone I ever saw.

Okay, so digest this:

Roberto Alomar is the best athlete to ever play in Toronto.

Seriously. I’m not going bananas here. I think it’s a valid idea.

Okay, stop laughing and let’s limit it to, say, the last half century.

The guy was the best player on the best team in the game.

The guy was here in the true prime of his career and his best seasons with the Jays.

The guy was maybe the best all-around player in his sport for a while there.

The guy won championships, which has to be a major factor.

Now, it’s all very subjective, of course. And there is the taint of the spitting incident with the umpire but, really, come up with another athlete who played in Toronto in the last, say, 30 years who can match all those attributes.

Pucks? They don’t win and that’s a key point.

Hoops? Franchise is too young and the best player ever never really realized his potential.

Football? Don’t think so.

Soccer: Hahahahahahaha.

Maybe you can put Donovan Bailey in the conversation with Alomar but I still think I can win the discussion.

What do you think?

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Oh yeah, I’m very impressed to read a headline that suggests Thursday might be the Hottest. Day. Ever.

Really, really impressed.

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Here’s a Where Were You When, too.

Remember the Alomar homer off Eck in the 1992 ALCS? Two-run shot that tied the game the Jays would win?

(This is the only video I can find of it).

Now, I may be totally off-base here but I seem to recall it was a Thanksgiving Monday up here and I do recall sitting at the dinner table with the TV on in the other room and having to excuse myself to go watch it.

And this might be heresy but I can make the argument that it was an even more significant home than the one Joe Carter hit off Mitch Williams in ’93.

It brought the Jays back in a game that seemed lost, came off the most dominant reliever in the game at the time and gave the Jays more confidence than they ever had on the march to their first World Series.

Now, Carter’s shot was dramatic, no doubt. Won a World Series, for goodness sakes, but there was always going to at least be a Game 7 if he didn’t hit it and I bet Williams would have found a way to blow Game 6 even if he didn’t give up the shot to Carter.

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This is how my mind works and be prepared to shake your heads.

Got the comment from Irregular Doug about an Opposite Day where we do lists of worsts and it’s a very cool idea we will absolutely explore.

So I start thinking worst sitcoms and then it’s worst sitcom theme songs and then it’s just sitcom theme songs and I know I’ve got Green Acres at the top and Gilligan’s Island on the list but then I think: “Wait, I forgot one. The cousins. The girls. You know, one’s from Europe, the other’s North American, one gets in trouble all the time (oh, that zany Patty or zany Cathy, I can’t remember), and the other’s an angel. Who the heck were they?” and then I have to go to Google.

And look what I found.

Sometimes I worry about me.

A lot.

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I heard about this Shaq stuff on the NBA TV schedule waste of time (seriously, there are waaaaaaaay too many channels, as it turns out) where he talked about the Miami Big Two.

Gratuitous. Cheap.

And, having watched the post-season somewhat closely, I’d say dead wrong.

You can make the case that over four series Bosh could very well have been the second-best Miami player in last year’s playoffs. Now, that’s not going to be the case over the duration of a regular season but it’s rather dismissive.

And while we all love Shaq for his sense of humour and we all think he’s going to be a good addition to the TV studio show but outlandish isn’t always the way to go. Needs some insight to go along with it.

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Speaking of the schedule, a rather ho-hum one for the HOTH.

Nothing horrible, it doesn’t seem; nothing too arduous at all.

In fact, from the Grunt side of things, it’s actually pretty good. You’ve got to like a season in which the longest road trip is only four games – and there are only three of them – and one that lets you be home for most of Christmas (figure it’ll be an evening flight to Cleveland to avoid weather-related driving hell) and one that includes lots of little one- and two-game trips.

Maybe the best part? The annual early-season trek to the west isn’t there; that’s a killer because you’re really not used to the grind of the travel that early in a season and the time zones are atrocious. And we all know it’s all about me, right?

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And speaking of …

Ballyard tonight, Jays-Mariners and that’s cool because I love to watch Ichiro play. He might be my favourite major leaguer.

Oh, we’ll try an IGBT, too, if you want. We’ll also try to find a way to jazz it up a bit for those slow periods during games.

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Comments

[sam]

I realize it's part of his legacy - but every article I've read in the last little while about Robbie Alomar mentions his impact on the game and the Jays - then mentions the spitting incident. We should be celebrating his achievements, not reliving the golden loogie.

There are sonme Ball players that seem to crave the attention and self promote by popping up all the time - I never got that impression about Alomar, he seems sincere and humbled by his achivements.

So Patty's only seen the sites a girl can see from Brooklyn Hieghts,,,,Crazy Girl. I remember the Patty Duke show fondly.....

Enjoy the heat

[Mark]

You started with "best ever"

Then changed ever to last half century.

Then cut half century down to last 30 years.

Presumably because you didnt want people going all the way back to leaf teams that won something. You should have just stuck to your 'ever' guns. Tougher argument to make, but makeable. When you keep moving the goalposts it makes the whole observation rather meaningless.

[Steven]

The homer off Eck was actually Sunday October 11, 1992 (the day before Thanksgiving). I remember it well because I was in the delivery room awaiting the arrival of my own first super son when a huge cheer went up in the hospital. I asked my wife if I could just go out for a minute to see what happened and I got that "if you go out keep walking" kind of look that a mother-to-be may give in the last throws of labour. I even suggested we name the baby Roberto in honour of the day but I got a similar look so we went in a different direction.

Blogger's note: I was close. Thanks

[JHK]

Isn't it ironic that we catch a big break in scheduling just as we are ready to tank another year? I don't want to stir the pot but can't help to speculate...

[Jonathan]

I know I'm in the vast minority, but I've never been a huge fan of Ichiro, and I even saw him play several times over in Japan with the Orix Blue Wave before North Americans knew who he was. Part of it is that I don't think he gets utilized correctly when he hits first in the order, his OBP has always been far below the league leaders. He would be best hitting 3rd, I'd say. I don't think he knows what a walk is. I know, he has speed and beats out many of the dribblers he hits for infield singles, but he would be better off letting those pass and be balls. Sure, he has a great arm and outfield skills, that's not up for debate. I just cringe when I see his OBP is barely above his batting average year after year, that his team has been mostly awful for the last decade (sure, his team was successful when it was stacked), and I'm also offput by the fact that I know his English is quite good but he uses an interpreter. Players of various sports with poorer language skills talk to the media every day, Ichiro pretends he doesn't speak the language when he does, very well.

Rant over.

[Lorie]

Morning Doug!
Full disclosure. I was young and impressionable. And perhaps that excuses how influenced I was by that show. How much of an influence you ask? To the extent that for fun events always wore a Patty-like flipped up 'do and when demure was called for, it was Cathy's pageboy. The song confused me for years though. The Bali Ruse? Was that a flick set in the tropics? Maybe starring Haley Mills? Years later it was explained to me that it was really The Ballets Russes. But by that time it confused in an entirely different way. 'Cause by then I was (much!) older and more worldly and knew that this ballet company hadn't existed - let alone performed for a British schoolgirl - since 1929. Guess it was best to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the zaniness. :)

[Jim Wilkinson]

Hey Doug

Enjoy your insights and stories.

The amazing thing about being able to watch Alomar in his prime was the plays he imagined and then executed - so many of them seem almost routine with today's players - at the time he was outrageous - no one even thought like him. Greatest athlete or performer for a Toronto Team by far.

Congratulations to the "new Jays" for bringing him back into the fold and making a statement about this team's standard for excellence in the future.

Jim

[D-Mac Ottawa]

Morning Doug,
With the retiring of jersey #12 news yesterday, I too went googling to find that famous home run. Kudos to you, I couldn't find it anywhere. I too recall excusing myself from the dinner table. And I also agree with you that it's the biggest HR in franchise history. Aside from the fact it set the table for the Jays' first World Series, the part I loved the most was that it came off Eckersley... and there was no bigger, fatter ego in sports at that time who deserved a bigger, fatter slice of humble pie at that particular moment than the pompous, sneering Eck. Serendipity doo dah, dude!
And thank you for sharing with us on that how-your-brain-works bit. Funny indeed how one odd theme leads to the next, no? Your cousins led me to this wondrous variation on a theme (don't ask how; c'est la vie...): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsMIuuV05uc
Cheers.

[doug]

I'm glad you like the opposite list idea as it has potential I think...in terms of Alomar I have to agree he is the best athlete that passed through this city and still remains loyal to the jays and Toronto to this day..and to me Alomar points out something that gets lost by sabermetrics stat guys such as Bill James...James before the HOF announcement said Alomar was a over-rated second baseman, I just shook my head and laughed...Alomar can't be defined by inputting numbers into a computer, he was defined by watching him play everyday, which as Jay fans we could, I never saw a second baseman cover so much territory in the outfield, foul balls etc as he did....the American press focuses on the spitting incident as to be fair to them that's their story on him and to me it's so minor...as Alomar was simply superb and I am glad I got to watch him play and know really what he was all about...

[Chris]

Hey Doug...with the schedule being released yesterday, let's say the NBA does lose part of the season but that they return to play for January 1, 2012...do they create a whole new shortened schedule, ensuring that a team plays its divisions/conference in a similar/pro-rated way a regular season happens? Or do they just take the current schedule and play the remainder of the games left on the schedule?

I don't remember what happened during the last shortened season but was wondering what, if any, is the protocol.

Thanks

Blogger's note: They didn't begin cancelling games until the middle of October and didn't decide to re-do the whole thing to 50 games until after Christmas, if I recall

[Mike]

Doug,

Who was the third best Heat player? I think you'd be in tough saying LeBron was worse than Bosh over the entire playoffs...

[marc in panama]

Hola Doug,

Alomar not only spit in a man's face, he then went on to say some pretty cruel words about John Hirschbeck regarding the loss of his son later in the interview after the game. Don't care about a bad call, or having a bad day, everyone loses their cool, but he spit in a man's face and is being lauded like he's the best thing that ever happened to sports in the history of Toronto. Seriously??

Ciao amigo,

marc in panama

[David in Oakville]

Excellent post today Doug. I think you make the case for Roberto well and I agree, Alomar's home run in the ALCS was the turning point for the Jays. Prior to that point, the Jays always fell short in the ALCS. Alomar's home run made believers of all of us.

I will always remember that night. My family celebrates Thanksgiving on Sundays and my grandfather was still alive. We moved the TV so that it was visible from the table and we all watched. It brought back memories of Thanksgivings in the early 70's with my father, grandfather and I huddled around an old black & white watching the Amazing A's. That's when I fell in love with the game.

I could not be more pleased that Roberto Alomar will be the first Jay to have his number retired. I think I will have to be there to see it.

[LeeZ]

@Steven: Oh you soooooooooo should have gone and found a tv set in the hospital. I mean, come on: it's not as though your wife was in any position to stop you, and she wouldn't have stayed mad for TOO long. Plus it would have let your wife know who's boss! (in the immortal words of one Doug Smith: I KID, I KID!!!)
@D-Mac Ottawa: what a GREAT find with that Vie en Rose thing! Absolutely wonderful. I'll have to check out more of their stuff.

[Mike kovacs]

So Doug given the results of the NBA schedule I take it that the league is now listening to you? Did they give you a good BDay week?

Blogger's note: Well, unless they make the second round of the playoffs, Birth Week won't be an issue.
Hahahahahahahaha

[The J]

Oh man, I sure hope the Leafs fans don't see this. I don't think any of us really want a day of "Dougie, Dougie" (Gilmour not Smith). Couldn't think of any one better than Alomar. Sittler was elite, but never won it all. Vince never realized that full potential (but he was great pure athlete - he did jump over a 7 footer once!), and Bosh was never really more than just a lower end all-star. The Jays have a few good entries, like Delgado, Halladay, etc. but they never won it big. And of the Jays on those world series teams, he had to be the best (though there were other greats). I guess my best rebuttle would be Pinball Clemons. He won it all, set some records and was a major cornerstone of his sport in this city. Not sure I put him over Roberto, but he was good.

My memory of that home run? I was in Toronto - it's just too bad the HR was in Oakland! Especially since I was stuck in a car being dragged around shopping by my mom. Some times when I look back on childhood I miss it. But I sure don't miss that whole lack of free will thing. I did hear it on the car radio, so atleast I can feel like I was a witness to the event.

[Allan Wexler]

I'd take it a step further and say that the home run against Eck was the single greatest one time achievement in the history of Toronto sports. People forget that, as you pointed out, Eck was unhittable that year, and to get such a big hit at such a crucial time is the thing that legends are made of. Robbie was one of a kind, we never appreciated him as much as we should have while he was here and we should all celebrate a true winner who helped bring two World Series Championships to Toronto.

[Vsem]

Joe Carter hit the biggest homerun in baseball history. There shouldn't even be an argument. Yes it was only game 6, but keep in mind that the Jays were down in the game when he hit the game winning home run. I feel bad for Carter. If he did that on the Yankees or the Red Sox he would have been canonized and probably in the hall of fame.

Blogger's note: I can make a case it wasn't the biggest home run in World Series history, let alone baseball. Google Bill Mazeroski.

[CQ]

My top three picks for best athlete to ever play (past 30 years) in Toronto:
1. Michael "Pinball" Clemons,
2. Michael Andretti, and
3. Tony Fernandez.

[furcifer]

The Raptors are 15 years old. The Jays were 16 when they won their first World Series. Hoops team is not "too young" to have an established history.

[Vsem]

Doug I'm well aware of Bill Mazeroski but here's two things against Mazeroski: 1) When he hit the home run the game was tied, if he had struck out or hit into a double play the game wouldn't have been over. 2) Hitting a huge home run in 1960 comes with a lot less pressure than doing it in 1993. However you cut it, all sports have been magnified in the ESPN era of 24 hour sports coverage, thus putting way more pressure on players in the modern era than ever before. Even you just used the last half century in picking the best athlete in Toronto sports, 1960 doesn't even make the cut.

[Richard Bridgman]

First off, for some reason I've been singing the Patty Duke theme for months. They're a couple of crazy gals! As for best athlete in Toronto. Well, I'm 57 and have seen a lot of real good ones (Keon. Mahovlich, Sittler, McDonald, Gilmour, Horton, HWSNBN, Joe Carter, Stieb, Clemens and so on) but in my opinion Alomar is # 1, Halliday # 2 and Salming # 3. Their abilities were above and beyond those of even great players of their time. But that's the great thing about sports-everyone's allowed an opinion.

[CQ]

Plus [see 1:04 p.m.], I overlooked Daniel Nestor and Elvis Stojko. Add in all the deserving guys who didn't quite have the championships and Toronto trophy victories, Alomar doesn't even make my personal top ten list.

[David "Howard" Lang]

Doug Flutie...end of discussion

[GT]

Hi Doug,

I wanted to know your thoughts on the Matt Bonner situation and him having difficulty getting Canadian citizenship. I know his family is Canadian and that he is often in Toronto in the summer, but it appears he is having difficulty getting it. I know playing for the Canadian team is his goal, but he seems to be more "Canadian" than others I have seen get citizenship.

Blogger's note: I don't think it would have been an issue with a hockey player.