How are the Raptors different from the Blue Jays?

So, how’s your Friday shaping up?

Gonna be a tad busy around the basketball, that’s for sure. And late.

Sounds like the gloves come off at 2 p.m. our time, not before as some of us with ridiculously early Friday deadlines had hoped.

That’s when camps can officially open, teams can officially add players and it takes away the chance for coaches to hold two practices on opening day.

What’s it mean here?

Well, since it looks like almost a given that Jamaal Magloire’s coming home to finish his career (I’d put that at 95-5 given conversations I had after yesterday morning’s note), all Bryan is really going to do – if you take him at his word after his little media buntoss Wednesday afternoon that Cathal summed up here – is to add a small forward and a third point guard and maybe one other warm body for the end of the bench.

Yawn.

Now, I understand his philosophy entirely. Save your money, find out what you’ve got, add bits on short term deals and move forward with fingers crossed that the kids can learn from a new coach and see where you are next summer.

Tough to sell tickets? Probably. But if they play hard and entertaining basketball, win some games right off the bat on their youthfulness in a grind of a season fans will watch.

This whole “let’s keep our flexibility” thing is simply a case of semantics in a lot of ways.

What if he had said, ala the TOD, that “we like where we are, we’re planning to spend and contend for a playoff spot next year, we like our kids, watch us grow.”

Would it engender the kind of unbridled optimism about the Raptors as exists with the Blue Jays, an optimism that’s more rampant in many circles than it has been in years.

They have a good young core (DeRozan, Davis, Bayless, Johnson vs. Lawrie, Arencibia, Romero, Morrow), talent in the pipeline (Valanciunas, likely another high draft pick vs. Hecchevaria, D’Arnaud), a new coaching staff (Casey vs. Farrell) and money to spend the next time free agents come on the market.

See the similarities?

But one seems to offer hope and one seems to be creating more disdain than it should.

Maybe it speaks to the basic impatience of Raptors fans, which could be generational, and maybe it’s the way the message is being delivered.

They are the same and in spring it was going to be fun to watch the baseball team grow; maybe in the fall it should be fun to see what transpires on the court.

Whaddya think?

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I don’t believe the Leaves did anything of significance yesterday.

Just letting you know.

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You guys okay with Kelly Johnson being the TOD’s second baseman next year?

(And, yes, I now have an even greater interest in the baseball from having been around it a lot this summer)

Griff’s got the gory details here as usual, Johnson accepts arbitration, gets a one-year non-guaranteed deal, and with no other real prospects on the horizon quite yet, the job as the team’s every day second baseman next season.

(Although, Alex Anthopoulos did put forth the idea of Johnson as a left-fielder, which is going to make it awfully crowded out there with him, Travis Snider, Eric Thames, Edwin Encarnacion and, who knows who else)

The Johnson thing doesn’t really bother me. He was okay when he was here, he’s sure not Brandon Phillips but he’s a serviceable big-leaguer and with the way the market was, I’m not sure there was a better option out there.

But for those of you hoping Alex made a big splash, these have been pretty boring meetings. And with Mark Buehle going to Florida, Huston Street traded (yeah, he’d have looked good in the bullpen), Albert Pujols going to wait ‘til the meetings are over and a lot of cold water being thrown on the Prince Fielder thing, this may be an uneventful week.

Too bad.

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Oh oh.

Is my friend Mike Monroe in for a long season watching the San Antonio Spurs and “engaging” with the team’s fans?

Yep, T.J. Ford reports he’s going to sign with the Spurs and I wonder how long until the T.J.-Tony thing starts heating up?

Kidding, sort of. But it’s a great place for T.J., whom I quite like as a guy. Close to home, good organization that’s taking another shot at winning, and a defined role.

Just wonder what it’ll mean for Toronto dude Cory Joseph, who might have otherwise tried to find some minutes.

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Could I have some mail, please?

Thank you.

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Remember last week when I told you Super Son was destined for greatness after asking crack sax teacher Pat Carey for the Yakkety Sax sheet music?

Well, at several points the last couple of days, there’s been uproarious laughter coming from his downstairs lair and I figure he’s down there watching some teen show I wouldn’t ever understand, like Suite Life or Wizards of Waverely.

But, noooooo.

He’s got the box set out, DVD’s running in a marathon and his taste in old comedies makes an old man proud.

Now, if he gets a crush on Barbara Feldon, we’re off to the races!

Yep. Kid loves Get Smart and he could very well end up being President Of The World someday.

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Speaking of the Spurs it’s no, no, no; a thousand times no, to the several “Should the HOTH sign Richard Jefferson now that he’s going to be amnesty’d” questions I got.

Yes, if those are popping up in the inbox, the NBA season truly is upon us.

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This little aside:

Unless it’s someone of huge significance, and there is no indication whatsoever that it will be (although things change), I am not waiting breathlessly to find out who the fifth Raptors big is, or who will be the third, maybe fourth, point guard behind Calderon, Bayless and perhaps Barbosa.

Doesn’t matter, won’t get excited about it, just hope they’re good guys to get along with. And you should feel the same. Please.

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Comments

[JW]

Hey Doug, very interesting discussion on Jays vs. Raptors. At this time I think the Blue Jays are light years ahead of the Raptors in terms of getting to the ultimate goal of winning a championship. The Jays have arguably the best player in the game in Bautista along with a player who could have won rookie of the year had he come up sooner last year in Lawrie. In fact, they have potential all stars at just about every position when you factor in the farm teams to the current roster. In my mind, they are only a couple moves or signings away from being serious contenders. They can also make the playoffs this year, and in baseball anything can happen in the playoffs.

The Raptors on the other hand, are not close at all to a championship in my opinion, or even the playoffs for this year. I do agree there is a nice level of young talent on the team. I just hope we can keep some of it this time around. It worries me that DeRozan might bolt at free agency if we keep losing. That said, it will be interesting to see if we can get a game changing PG out of the draft ala Kabongo. It will also be interesting to see what Valenciunis (guessed at the spelling) can do next year. I can see the Raptors rounding the corner next year to potentially become a playoff team, but at that time the Jays should be contending for a championship if they put a couple pieces together.

The other differences I see have to do with management. AA has been an absolute genius balancing short term interests (great trades), long term interests (taking the farm system from 28th to 4th in 2 yrs), money (getting value based contracts for our stars), and keeping the teams flexibility. To me, Colangelo is great at trades (although hesitant to pull a blockbuster in many years), not good at long term interests (overpays current players and used to trade to many of our draft picks), and is awful at flexibility (see overpayment again aka Calderone, Amir Johnson, etc.). I find it interesting that Colangelo's repeatable mantra this year is "flexibility going forward" since if he had done this in his first couple years with Toronto we wouldn't be in this mess right now. In my opinion, Colangelo could learn more than a few things from Anthopolous.

[GK]

Impatience of Raptors fans? Come one....they've had one playoff victory in 16 or 17 seasons! They very well may be the worst team and/or organization in terms of winning and success in any pro sport over the last 20 years. If this new core of Derozan, Davis and JV fail BC will be fired and they'll hire some assistant GM from some other team and the eternal rebuild will continue. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

[Eric-in-NS]

The Raptors and Blue Jays could be in similar phases of development, but only because things can happen faster in the NBA than MLB. As someone has already pointed out, there is no real comparison with the way the two teams finished their last season. They Jays were a .500 team in a rebuilding year, with an MVP candidate, an all-star pitcher, a no-fail Canadian rookie at third and high RBI rookie catcher. Plus they have developed a deep farm system -- and that's a main difference. There is no farm system in the NBA. In MLB you can look at potential several years into the future. And teams have long-term personalities. I remember some Bill James Abstracts from the 1980's in which he showed how franchises maintained personalities over two or three decades. But back to my main point. The Jays will probably continue to improve over the next season or two and are in position to make the playoffs in 2012 and to become a consistent winner in the years to follow. The Raptors, with an effective trade this year, could become a playoff team next spring; with last year's draft pick, new draft picks next spring and more years of experience of the core group, could go deep in the playoffs in a year or two. The Raps have a longer list of current "ifs" than the Jays but they could arrive at the same place in a couple of years.

[D-Mac Ottawa]

It's another one of those "do you remember where you were and what you were doing 31 years ago" kind of days. Peace. Cheers. Go Raps!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwgTSF8_zdo
P.S. The 'Occupy' thing has progressed a bit from creating health hazards in unsuspecting parks. It has an agenda now, and may just grow up to be something of rather huge import: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
I think John might have given this his blessing. Imagine.

[Cluck Kent]

I can't imagine the uproar if BC had said, "We're happy with where we are..."

At this point, I don't think anyone knows if our young guys are going to be roll players or fringe all stars. The homer in me would love to believe that Ed and Demar and Amir were all star bound, but the realist in me says if they were going to be we would have a better feel for it already.

[Boko]

Doug, I'm going to disagree with you about Richard Jefferson. If we can get him on a minimum salary contract, he's worth getting. He's better than Linas Kleiza by a country mile. He was an important part of a successful team with both the Nets & the Spurs. We should be so lucky! AND both DeMar & James could use the mentorship he could provide. Barbosa is too much of a point guard, leaving a void that RJ could indeed fill.

Blogger's note: If he'll take a one-year, minimum-value contract on a non-playoff team coming off a 22-win season, he's suffered some untold seizure and should be avoided at all costs. Other than that ... go for it

[skiff]

Gotta agree with Doug, you'd really have to question Jefferson if he wanted to sign here. Why would anyone for this season? Let's not kid ourselves, they are not going anywhere this year so what's the appeal on a min deal for a player. Not to mention the Raps should just stay away from all amnesty guys. Most of them are well past the best before, and on the off chance one of them imrpoved the team, well that would cost us draft position. I'm not saying they should tank the season, but if they keep the current roster then they probably won't be able to crack the 15 win ceiling, and with a high draft pick and JV coming next year, I'm fine with that. This year's a write off already. Everyone around the team has to talk about improving and aiming for the playoffs, but really, what else would they say publicly?! Between the lack of camp, compressed schedule, and inconsistent roster, we got the makings of a top 3 pick next summer, and some cap space. Works for me!!

[doug]

what alternative world do some people live in, Jefferson is far more valuable then a minimum contract , he will get big bucks somewhere, he was 4th in the league in 3 point %, and has a lot of game left, in the right situation...i don't think the Raps and Jays can be compared at all, the NBA and MLB are on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of building teams...this past year showed it, at the end in baseball in the World Series something like 23/25 top paid players weren't playing, in the NBA it's a star driven league plain and simple...in baseball you can have a crappy draft and it really won't affect your team at all, whereas in the NBA a couple bad drafts your in dire straits...many different ways and many different options in MLB to build a team in the NBA there is one for a true championship team, get a elite player or 2....and the raptors don't have to sign a "big name" free agent next year, a couple solid players would be fine, people focus on the Howards's/Paul's etc...there not the players on the Raps radar....Get Smart classic tv, classic lines...such as "missed it by that much", and the good old shoe phone, and cones of silence....good stuff

[Adrian]

I promised not to talk about basketball anymore but I'll say this: Keep in mind how Colangelo had justified his ... ummm.... frugality over the past few years by saying he wanted to retain flexibility for the new CBA. He flushed a $9 million TPE down the drain, for example, he let his most important FA walk for as close to nothing as it gets- basically anything and everything to not spend money. Wait until after the lockout, we were told.

Now the lockout's finished, and look at the teams on the market today. It's the usual suspects- the same teams who *weren't* cautious and frugal for the past few years. Hmmmm. Doesn't it make you wonder? Where did the conservative approach pay off for the Raptors? What's more, Colangelo's now asking you to wait again- not just until 2012 but maybe, gulp, 2013?!- before he spends? Seems like the Raptors are running in circles around you, the fan. Same case I've been making for years. It's very much like the Blue Jays: every July, they tell you to wait until December because you don't have to surrender prospects to add free agents; and every December, they tell you to wait until next July because you don't get the same "value" in free agency that you do in trades. Round and round we go.

You can love me or hate me. I don't why you'd hate but that's beside the point. Just keep this in mind when July 2012 comes around and the team quite possibly uses another escape hatch to avoid making a splash again, while the Lakers, Heat, Mavericks, Spurs, Bulls and others continue to spend their way to the top of the standings again.

Blogger's note: Hate's a strong word. But a man of his word is a man of his word and you're not. But I understand the allure of this place

[Penguin]

If there was any doubt that this would be an ugly year for the Raps/HOTH, then, in my mind, signing Magloire would clinch it. The guys has done nothing of note in the NBA and has never stood up for the Canadian national team, unlike Nash who has more than done his share. Don't want him; don't need him and I'd so much would rather see Reggie back (not sure that it's a choice of one or the other).

On another note, how long before MLB realizes once again that they've lost their mind and are creating a pending financial crisis. The contracts being signed are insane. I applaud the direction that AA is taking. So far, only misstep, I think, was the MacDonald/Hill trade for Johnson. How weird a year is it when the bucks are flowing out of Anaheim and the Marlins (the Marlins? Seriously?), and the Yankees and Red Sox have been relatively quiet?

Blogger's note: Nothing except the all-star game he played in and the NBA championship he played for. That's not nothing, regardless of what you think

[james]

What is interesting about this truncated season is that expectations for the HOTH could hardly be worse: Their first draft choice is unavailable; a key player is in rehab and unavailable; the new coach will want to implement new offensive and, particularly, defensive systems but has no preseason or practice time to do so; every team in their division seems better than they are; the schedule is a mad sprint seemingly designed to ensure multiple injuries. Obviously this is a train wreck waiting to happen. And yet, this fan tingles with anticipation. It is Year Zero.
As for the Jays, it's apples and oranges really but they have one reliable starter who isn't as effective as their former one reliable starter now in Philly. Pray for expanded playoffs.

[D]

This East is getting crazy...I love it.

Now, Chauncey is miffed he might get get amnestied in order for Chandler to sign. The Knicks will have nowhere near the money to sign Paul after the season, no matter what. And I doubt if he goes to LA he would sign long term unless its with knowledge that Dwight is coming as well. (Kobe can't last as long as Pauls possible extension)

Sooooooo........why doesnt BC get on the phone, let the Knicks know that he would love to use his TPE and part of midlevel to absorb Amar'e's contract, so that the Knicks can move Chandler to C and retain Billups and his expiring contract?

This move would make Bargs expendable next year as you put JV in at C, and Amar'e in at PF, Demar at SG, Bayless at point, and tonnes of cap space and tradeable assets like Jose's expiring and whatever you get back for Bargs, plus a top 6-10 most likely next year and get a real SF. This team, I would root for hardcore.

Will it happen, no , never. But with all these potential signings, there is at least some pretty awesome scenarios that I am sure BC is looking at due to financial restrictions vs desires of Knicks, Lakers, New Orleans, and Orlando.

Maybe being the "facilitator" and third or fourth team in a deal over the weekend might just get the Raps something other than Magloire. (picks, veteran SF, a bag of timbits, who knows)

On Monday morning, after the dust settles, the NBA might look radically different. Well, not much will change for the bottom 24 teams, but wow, the top 6 are going to rock.

[doug]

@penguin...you want to know why the marlins are a player in FA...it's simple the slimeball Loria, wanted the Expos out of Canada, why because he wanted a new ballpark which Canadian governments don't pay for (and he sure wouldn't)...so he took his team to Florida, won a World Series (by accident), then for years held the state hostage and threatened to move etc unless he was given a new ballpark well fielding bad teams....well lo and behold he got his new ballpark this year, which he paid squat for, got a sweet deal on all other revenues flowing from the new park...so to show his gratitude he is spending money on FA's which again isn't his, it's based on revenues from a new stadium, increased ticket sales etc....he got what he was after, i hope the Miami Marlins implode...Loria represents all that is wrong with ownership in pro sports and why Canadian teams face stiffer challenges....rightfully so we don't pay for stadiums directly , indirectly yes as the Skydome shows...so that's why the Marlins are "players" in FA no other reason, it's all smoke and mirrors

[Andrew Gregg]

Hi Doug:

Perfectly useless yet pretty cool anecdote: when the Raps were first awarded to Toronto the fledgling front office had the idea to create some life size cut outs of players with no heads, so kids could stand on a stool and gawk at the camera, making out that they were NBA players. The bodies they used for those cutouts were Eastern Commerce stand-outs Doug Johnson and ... Jamaal Magloire. So it's technically not his first time in a Raptor's uniform.

AG, Toronto

[Eric]

In terms of the Raptors strategy to wait until next year's free agency to bring over JV, get a high draft pick, and make some signings, I think it seems like the right idea. I'm not huge on the free agents that are out there right now, and the Raps at this state don't really have a very good chance of signing a big name anyways. Doug, I'm kind of surprised that you aren't a bit ticked off that the Raps are in some ways tanking this year. I do not mean full-out tanking because they are going to work on developing their young guys, but the truth is that they want one-year players to fill out their roster (according to Colangelo) and not really looking to improve their team in the short-term. Really, they are just waiting until next free agency.
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If the rumours are true about CP to the Lakers with or without the Rockets being involved, I think it is a great move for the Hornets because they would almost definately lose CP for nothing if they keep him this season. For the Lakers, yes it makes sense, I mean you are getting one the best players in the league, but I wonder about something else. I know that Pau is 31 (and CP can be the future for them), but what happens if Pau is gone, Odom is gone, and Bynum gets hurt? All I'm saying is that there is a risk of some sort there. It'll be interesting to watch CP and Kobe play together though.

[Rob.V]

Dude, you hear about the "consumated" 3 team trade yet?
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I get why New Orleans and L.A make that trade... but why the rockets give up Luis Scola and Kevin Martin for Gasol is a bit of a surprise, no?.
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Unless I'm missing something the deal doesn't seem to make sense for the Rockets.

[Ray]

As mentioned above, your Raptors-Jays comparison doesn't hold water because the Jays nucleus is just better. Most of the guys you mentioned are considered all star or all star caliber players. The Raptors don't have anyone like that. I'm sure you'd hear that from anyone without a particular preference for either team.

[J]

"...while the Lakers, Heat, Mavericks, Spurs, Bulls and others continue to spend their way to the top of the standings again."

It's hard to hate someone who is clearly a lukewarm NBA fan (i.e. a bit clueless). Of the five teams used as examples, three were actually quite frugal. The Heat went years with a skeleton crew just to maintain flexibility for the last off-season, but clearly they spent their way to the top of the standings again when they managed to have one of the lowest payrolls in the NBA last season. Clearly.

The Bulls built their way back to the top with some luck (#1 overall draft pick -> D. Rose) and a lot of good young pieces. By being financially responsible the last few years, they were able to add Boozer et al. You can probably guess where I'm heading next: despite spending during free agency, they were another one of the lowest payrolls in the league.

As for the Spurs? Adrian is obviously off his medicine. They've been the epitome of frugality the entire last decade, choosing to spend wisely rather than add payroll unnecessarily. The Raptors, by comparison, were constantly among the top 33% of team payrolls each season.

Any knowledgeable NBA fan would realize that the Raptors' issue isn't spending, but spending wisely. I fail to see how arguing in favor of spending for the sake of spending is any different from the Raptors' M.O. the past several seasons. As always, I pose the question: name a situation and player that we should have signed but didn't. I wouldn't be surprised to hear either silence or some idiocy that wouldn't have worked under the CBA.