After an update, there's still some summer work to be done

An interesting chat with Bryan on the conference call yesterday after they finalized the Kyle Lowry deal, kind of a wide-ranging conversation, full of the predictable lauding of their summer acquisitions and a bit of frank talk about Jose, as you can read here.

Was nice to catch up and get some insight and confirm some stuff we all had been writing thanks to chatty friends but it was what it was, an update rather than a definitive statement about what next year’s team will look like.

It is far too early to figure out how they stack up against everybody else, really. Rosters are not at all set, there are free agents out there still looking for gigs and we really don’t know who’ll be where and doing what when November rolls around.

But how is the process unfolding to this point, how are they doing in the pursuit of more talent, more athleticism, improvement at all levels?

Guess it depends a bit on your perspective.

If nothing changes – and it surely will so this might be an exercise in futility – I think you can agree they are deeper at point guard (Calderon-Lowry beats Calderon-Bayless in my opinion), they are deeper in the front court (Jonas Valanciunas is an upgrade, no matter what rookie struggles he has in his first six weeks or so) and if they get Fields to along with Terrence Ross, you’d have to think they have a bit more depth at the wing.

Upgrades? Sure.

Is it enough?

Don’t know.

Bryan kind of shrugged off the absence of a small forward acquisition, a priority going into free agency, by saying he could see Fields there to augment Kleiza and James Johnson but I still see that as a bit of a weakness and it’s going to be an issue.

You’d think they should be able to shoot better, they should be quicker and a bit more athletic and they should be a bit better defensively if for no other reason that the lessons Dwane taught last year will have sunk in more and he’ll have more time to teach with a month of training camp and exhibition games at his disposal.

The danger, of course, is to sit pat now, to think they’ve done some business and let’s see how this all works out in the wash.

Can’t do it, and I don’t imagine Bryan will.

They need help at the three, it’s plain and simple, and while it might not have to be some $10 million a year guy, you can be sure Bryan’s looking to see who might have fallen through the free agent cracks.

It is forever thus, there is a big rush to get guys signed right out of the box and then teams stand back and take a look at their rosters and figure out what else has to be done.

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Can you imagine doing anything for a living for 50 years?

No, I can’t either.

(Although Super Grandpa worked at the same gig for almost that long, in the same office building, driving the same route to work for about 35 of those years and if that’s not old school, I don’t know what is)

Anyway, the point is that today’s the 50th anniversary of the first Rolling Stones concert – it’s been all over the airwaves – and the one question to Irregulars Of A Certain Vintage is this:

Stones or Beatles?

Remember back in the day when you pretty much had to be one or the other? Did you listen to the Stones and their somewhat edgy style or the Beatles and their more popular brand of world-changing music?

My memory is a bit vague – seems to happen when you reach this ripe old age – but there was a feeling you had to be one or the other.

Me? Probably more Beatles than Stones, at least at the start. Sure, now you can appreciate them both for what they’ve done, for the catalogue of quality performances they produced and for mere fact they are somehow going strong lo all these many decades.

And, like the Beatles, it’s impossible to come up with even a top 10 list of songs, isn’t it?

Let’s go with a typical one.

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Mail one more time, please.

Click, write, send, say hello.

Thanks.

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So what if the Knicks match the offer on Fields, which was signed Wednesday afternoon, making Saturday the big day and I’m sure it’ll be resolved sometime in the middle of the Blue Jays game when I’m reprising my role as a Seamhead Scribbler for a weekend?

Bryan put it as a 50-50 proposition yesterday – there’s been no indication from Glen what the Knicks are thinking – so there’s a chance Fields might not be in Toronto after all. It’s a change in the generally held opinion of what New York might do but, as we know, things change.

Anyway, it will free up just over $5 million in cap room to see what else is out there but I don’t know in this day and age just what you get for $5 million.

It will, however, put them back in play for a little while and that might make next week busy; don’t these people understand I have to go to London a week Monday and need some time to prepare?

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Wonder what we’re going to do here tomorrow?

Is this the slowest night of the sports year ever?

I’d say so.

No baseball, no basketball, no pucks, no football and I don’t imagine the TFCs (glorious victory last night, lads) play back-to-back so there’s not even that.

Thankfully, the Mighty Red Tigers are back in action, full report coming.

The rest of you? Have a nice quiet night.

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Hey, did you hear?

Dwight Howard didn’t get traded!!!!!

Of course, all this means is we’ll have to do this all again – likely three or four times – before someone does the admirable thing and puts us all out of our misery by acquiring him.

Sooner, please, rather than later.

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Oh, what the heck,

It’s long but it’s a favourite and would be near the top of a personal Stones list.

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Comments

[Chris]

You have to respect the Stones for their contibution to music, even if the 2nd 25 years doesn't hold a candle to the 1st 25, but I'm afraid it's Beatles all the way. They changed the way music is recorded, the way it sounds, the way it's perceived, the way it's written.....they completely altered the musical landscape, and nothing we've listened to since would have been the same without them. Also, they were way cuter.

[doug]

I am much more a Beatles fan, but I appreciate the Stones and don't dislike them, just think the Beatles were more influential and opened the doors for a lot of musicians...also to me the Stones have tarnished their legacy by still touring if they'd broken up 20 years ago they would have much more credibility in my eyes....what if the Knicks do match Fields, without Bayless now it leaves a hole in our roster or I should say a larger hole, and from a week ago with Bayless,Jose and Fields...we could be down to Jose and a weakened market place....ok cheers

[Ken B]

The Beatles appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show ...(and now, next on our shoe, THE BEATLES). I think they made the greatest impact on music and hairstyles, than any other band or group.

[D-Mac Ottawa]

Yeah, what @Chris and @doug said. If you count Wikipedia as a resource, this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists) says the Beatles and Elvis are neck-and-neck at the top for all-time album sales, Stones down there around 13, sandwiched between AC/DC and the Bee Gees. Sounds about right. 'History' will have a lot more to say about the Beatles than the Stones, I'm wagering.
Coke or Pepsi? People seem a lot more adamant about that one. And funny thing is, whichever they prefer, they always seem to say the other one is "way too sweet"...
I'm also behind @doug's suggestion that the Raps take a good look at Nocioni if Grunwald decides to keep Fields.
Cheers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdiaY-h4xdg&feature=related

[JT]

Interesting to hear that BC is comfortable with the roster as is. I've always found BC to be forthright and candid. Sure, they have depth but I much rather have quality than quantity. I know its a business but I feel bad for Jose. Nice guy, been a soldier for this team and done everything asked of him. Loyal and always put the team first. I think he was pivotal in the development of a number of young players last season, making them all better. I thought his defence was also better last season, not good overall, but adequate for the system the Raptors ran. Huge slap in the face if you ask me because I think he played better this past season and then perhaps the previous 2. I'm very interested about any potential trades because I can't see this roster, with or without Fields because I really think he's just another (overpaid) guy, as is.

[DannyFromFreddy]

Doug, I was surprised to read Bryan said that Jose is "not happy" with the Rap's acquiring Lowry. That has not been his (Jose's) style in the past. Did Bryan put that out there to see if he could generate some more trade interest?

Blogger's note: "Not thrilled" was the phrase

[Lorie]

Hello Doug!
All right - musical content! Curiously enough one of the books I'm reading now is Marianne Faithfull's autobiography - called simply "Faithfull: An Autobiography". She was there when they were all starting out and somehow, even through all her seemingly constant partying with them, she retained a clear enough memory to tell pretty cool stories about Mick, Keith, John, Paul, George, Donovan, Bob Dylan, Joe Cocker, Roy Orbison, Peter and Gordon, Patti AND Maggie Smith (yes, THAT Maggie Smith!). And, of course Mick and Keith wrote this for her, which was nice. And a very large hit.
http://youtu.be/FhPPJ5dolxU
First saw The Beatles on that Ed Sullivan Show and thought they were the best group I'd ever heard - and still do. They became, in our simple adolescent categorizing of things the "good" boys and The Rolling Stones were the "bad" boys. But, bad boys could be good, too. I remember one Friday night when I was 12 or so, and a big group of us were skating at the outdoor Mitchell Field rink in Willowdale. The manager must've slipped away from the office for awhile, cause he left a kid about our age in charge of the music. Suddenly instead of some Strauss waltz we were skating to "Satisfaction". Well not skating so much as standing there - hand in hand with the current love interest - shocked and yet excited by hearing this wild new music. This innocent little weekly event suddenly became a whole lot edgier. And waaay more fun! Sadly the manager returned too soon as did the regular programming. But something was stirred in us all that night that the sub-zero January temperatures could not deny! Never get tired of hearing that song.
http://youtu.be/8_VbImuG71M

[sam]

Every player has thier limitations, and Doug has mentioned you shouldn't fall in love with the players on the HOTH, but I have to agree with @JT.
Jose always seems to get he short end of things in the battle for the minds of management and the great unwashed when it comes to the point guard position. What is he 30 or 31 years of age? That's not exactly old. He's not exactly a scrub, and he's not the best point guard in the league. He's an above average point guard and his strengths seem to outweigh any shortcomings in his game. I'd like to see him stay a Raptor and have a great season, but I wouldn't be disappointed if he is traded to a contending team.

[Rob]

Everyone's expecting Valanciunas to be a star, and rightfully so, but at the same time, this next season is going to be his first in the NBA. I hope no one's expecting 20 and 10 right away.

And if Valanciunas is just a rookie, can the Raptors really make the playoffs? Not unless the playoffs come down to them, in my opinion. Which, given that this is the East, is entirely possible.

[Wilber]

Doug,
With hazy, not very pleasant memories of Gary Forbes struggling to bring up the ball still in my head, I'm curious what the thinking is about the 3rd point guard spot. Sign a vet? A journeyman? A raw rookie? Ben Uzoh? Derrick Martin still around? :)
Just curious as injuries might prove once again we're 1 high ankle sprain from seeing a lot of the 3rd point guard.

Started packing for Blighty yet? Perhaps an extra umbrella.

Blogger's note: Would think Uzoh might have a leg up now but nothing's cast in stone

[Peter]

I listened to the conference call from yesterday, and one issue that Bryan sort of danced around is the question of whether or not he views this team, as currently constructed, as a playoff team.

At the end of the season, he was quite unequivocal about the goal for this year was going to be to make the playoffs. Yesterday he said that he never promised making the playoffs this year, but that was still a goal.

Do you know how Bryan would respond if he were asked the question, "Is this roster (with Fields) a playoff team?"

Blogger's note: He would say, rightfully so, "I'm not sure, contending for the playoffs and the playoffs is always our goal" or words to that effect

[Zow]

Was turnded on to the stones when the whole,would you let your daughter go out with a stone? beatles were to safe and pre packaged,to cudddly.Stones were more dangerous at the time.

[TLI]

Would be very disappointed to see Jose moved out. He has been vastly under-appreciated by many of the locals, but he has been a key contributor to any successes the Raptors have enjoyed for a long time now and one of the few true playmaker PGs in the game. Never the face of the franchise but always the epitome of class and character for the Raptors -- a great role model for our young players.

Wouldn't it be great to see loyalty mean something again in pro sports?

[J]

Although I respect the Beatles for basically being the first "Pop" band I'd pick the Stones any day of the week. Their throwback Blues sound changed rock music every bit as much and their incorporation of various sounds from many different cultures went beyond the Beatles and their Maharaja days.The Stones really captured a bad boy/blue collar essence and maintained it while the Beatles fell apart IMO.

To tell the truth I can't stand Paul and I think they are probably the most overrated group in history. The Stones have had their fair share of failure but up until the mid 80's were still churning out classics, flavour of the day be damned. "Jigsaw Puzzle" is one of my favourite songs of all time and I grew up on hip hop.

Word.

[David in Oakville]

BEATLES!... but there is a reason why the Beatles stopped touring and doing live shows.. their music never really translated into large stadium venues. I can't imagine what it might have been like to see the early Beatles in Hamburg or the Cavern Club. Who would you rather party with.... a Beatles fan or a Stones fan... got to be the Stones fan (so long as the party is not at your house).
+
Agree with JT. I think BC could have chosen his words more carefully with respect to Jose.

[brad]

It was great to listen to Bryan's update yesterday - the Raptors definitely look better on paper - Lowry was a great pick-up, looking forward to see what JV will do in the NBA, and I think Ross has the potential to be a very solid NBA starter. Combine that with a focused Bargnani and stronger Derozan and I think the Rap's will be good....but not great. Not sure how they'll be able to significantly upgrade their SF spot without gutting the roster a bit or overpaying - but I agree with Doug that this is still a weak spot. Kleiza, Johnson and Fields are all solid SF's off the bench (Fields the best of the three), but none are stand-out starters, especially with the other starters currently there.

[coachd]

Hi Doug,
I have to say that I'm a little disappointed, at this point because I guess it's still early in the process, that the cap space that we've been hearing about from the Raps brass for months has essentially gotten us , Kyle Lowry, Landry Fields (maybe), and two-rookie scale contracts for Valanciunas and Ross. How can the Nets sign Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, Gerald Wallace, Brook Lopez, Telotvic (sp?), trade for Reggie Evans and possibly resign Kris Humphries to much larger contract than the highest Raps contract? What am I missing here?

Blogger's note: Four of the Nets guys you mentioned are their own free agents

[Mos High]

@ JT Its just my opinion, but Jose hasnt been a point guard that this team needs, Toronto needs a starting point guard who can attack and then get open looks for other players and any given night take over a game. Countless games when Jose wouldnt even look for his shot even when he really should be. He is just to passive at this point of his career.

Jose is a real good ball handler but rarely drives and takes no chances hence the low turnovers. Simply put he isnt what they really need to progress. He is a great back up just making big money. Raptors should keep him or move him in a good deal to get a real starting 3. But dont rush to trade him for nothing.

[Scott T.]

Hey Doug,

What sports will you be covering in London? Will you be focused on basketball, or another sport in particular, or just a medley of sports in general depending on what the story is?

Blogger's note: Not much basketball, lots of other stuff still to be determined

[Geoff Read]

A lot of Stones' haters so far. For those who think the Beatles were more influential, consider how many bands today sound like the Stones, how many guitarists try to imitate Keith Richards' playing - the man practically invented alt-country, how many musicians have copied the Stones' bad boy image, and how Mick Jagger redefined the role of the lead singer - a redefinition whose impact is still obvious today.

I'm not dissing the Beatles - I love Abbey Road, in particular, which is one of my favourite albums. But denigrating the Stones' impact on popular music and culture is just silly. Their influence is immeasurable.

For the record, if I were listing the most influential performers of the past 50 years, the Stones and the Beatles would both be on my list, alongside Bob Dylan and a few others.

Top 10 Stones' tracks? Very difficult to do. One of the great things about the band is how in addition to their massive catalogue of hits there are gems hidden away on albums and singles that most people have never heard of. Here's one that was just released a couple of years ago from teh Exile on Main St. sessions. Great video as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ZnmXrRUIQ

PS - I hope the Jose Calderon era in Toronto is not over... but I suspect that it will be before the summer is out.

[larry lukeeborg]

agree with jt at 8h38 re jose; the guy's been a trooper for the team, and is one of the better pg's in the league...and forget what is said about his defence, it just isn't atrocious or horrible. lowry may be a good player, but i just can't see him as an upgrade over calderon.

[david]

Looks to me like most are underestimating James Johnson's upside at SF. Am afraid BC will let him go, and we will all come to regret it big-time.

[Geoff Read]

Damn it! I wrote a big long treatise on the whole Beatles/Stones thing and it got lost in cyber space somehow!

In sum: I love both - but people who are slagging the Stones' influence on popular music don't know what they're talking about. Mick redefined the lead singer; Keith is the original rock n roll rebel; the band pioneered alt-country; many, many bands and performers, from the Strokes to the White Stripes to Guns n Roses to Sheryl Crow to the Black Crowes cite them as major influences on their sound.

[Angelo]

Assuming the raps are unable to land Iguodala or Gay with a trade would signing Michael Pietrus not make sense as a small forward filler who can stretch the floor with the 3 shot and defend at a high level? If the Knicks don't match on Fields and we sign Pietrus would we not have a ligitimate chance (on paper) to make a legitimate run for that 8th spot?

[Jay Menard]

My Stones/Beatles thoughts? Early Stones were better than early Beatles; late Beatles better than late Stones.

I thought the early blues work that the Stones did (check out the Singles Collection: London Years) far surpassed the bubble-gum pop of the early Beatles. But then came Rubber Soul -- and from that album on, it is no contest.

Back to sports. Yes, the on-court stuff should matter most, but is there any value to keeping Calderon from a marketing perspective? Does the team see any ancillary revenue from overseas marketing and would that factor into any keep/amnesty argument?

Thanks for all you do! All the best.

Blogger's note: Marketing doesn't enter into it