The lack of civility in the stands can be troubling

I really, really, really don’t get some sports fans.

Sorry.

We were in Ivor Wynne Stadium on Saturday – a couple of Dads and a couple of Super Sons – and, let me tell you, in some respects it was like nothing I’ve experienced in quite some time.

Look, I’m fine with over-the-top support of the home team, or any team, even if I don’t have the level of passion that many do.

I appreciate, even if I don’t quite understand, painting ones face, wearing a jersey, going all out to show support that players can’t really hear.

I understand Argos-Ticats and the rivalry; I get that it’s a team representing a city, with bragging rights or something on the line.

That’s cool, it’s part of being a fan, I guess and to each their own.

But what I saw was a level of aggression, a bit of stupidity, people itching for confrontation rather than a good game or a big play and it was, in some ways, troubling.

Tell me why a kid in his 20s – sober, by the way – would greet every significant play for the home team but standing up, looking directly at a group of supporters a row down and a few seats away and swearing at them? Like, I mean letting them have it with both barrels. Entirely to provoke them, it’s not like they knew each other anything. This was unnecessary provocation and it quite easily could have escalated.

Of course, it didn’t because, finally, someone challenged the loudmouth and momentarily shut him up and for a long time, it was a far more enjoyable evening.

That doesn’t even touch on the impact of beers and liquors to increase the level of testosterone. It doesn’t touch on the guy who shed his shirt for some reason known only him and whatever secret sauce was in the plastic cup he was drinking from.

We understand the influence of booze to make someone feel bold, to take away inhibitions, to somehow make it okay in a muddled mind to challenge others rather than just have fun. That’s going to happen, it detracts from the night but isolated incidents are inevitably going to happen.

Whatever happened to simply cheering? Loudly, at appropriate times, with the odd boo for a bad call or something like that?

What happened to civilized behaviour where you interact with the people you’re with and those around you as some kind of brothers-in-arms, not as friends, exactly, but as like-minded sports fans?

Used to be fun to go to a game, and I’m sure in many instances it still is. But with idiots who try to make it personal, rather than a shared experience, I can’t imagine it’s nearly as much as it once was.

Too bad.

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So most of yesterday was spent figuring out what the hullabaloo would be like if the Raptors got rid of a guy who mattered.

Seriously.

People need to relax.

James Johnson is a fifth-year player about to be on his third team who doesn’t quite seem to “get it” often enough.

I have nothing against him personally, he was always cordial and willing to chat and a nice enough guy. But, folks, if you’re worried that the team you cheer for can’t absorb the loss of James Johnson, the issues go waaaaaaaaaaay beyond James Johnson.

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What else with the Raptors?

They played a summer league game last night, I’m told. They’ve got a buntoss meet-and-greet with the new guys here today. That’s about it.

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So it’s about 30 C outside when I walked Super Dog about 6 a.m., thick with humidity, it’s supposed to get to 36 C, feel like about 44 C and I’m a tad fed up.

Luckily, I’m hearing from One Of The All-time Greats that it’s 15 C, cold wind, rain lashing the windows in London and I’m thinking, “bring it on.”

End of rant.

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Yeah, kind of figures with the way things have been going all season that Jose Bautista would screw up his wrist on a swing.

Not a hit by pitch or a dive after a line drive or a slide at some base.

A swing.

Man, that sucks. Here’s the best team player in Toronto, biggest star any of the teams have, he’s helped carry a team devastated by injuries to pitchers to at least some level of competitiveness for the post-season and then, this.

Sucks, eh?

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In case you missed it – and I can’t imagine how you did – today’s the day the Knicks have to match an offer for Jeremy Lin or let him go for nothing.

Big decision, financially and otherwise, and no real indication which way they’ll go.

I’ll say this again about Lin, whose story you have to be more than familiar with now: He is an intriguing player who was a far better story and marketing piece last season. He may turn out to be very good, he may turn out to be quite average, I don’t for a second think a 25-game stretch is a bit enough sample size to say definitively either way.

But if I’m the Knicks, I match. I don’t worry about the third year because you’ve got two years to figure it out and that’s eons. And I don’t want to hear a whisper about the contract being “untradeable” because none are. If we’ve learned nothing over the past few years, it’s that anyone can be dealt no matter what they’re being paid. That’s can’t be an issue; I think it has to come down to whether New York thinks he’s going to be really good, or a bit above average.

Tough call.

The “poison pill” aspect of the deal and why it’s so bad probably hasn’t been explained here well enough and I’m sorry for that.

If a player joins a new team after signing an offer sheet, the cap hit is the average of the three seasons regardless of the annual salary – which is why, for instance – the Landry Fields deal here is about $6.3 million a season over three seasons.

But if the player’s original team matches, the cap hit is under terms of the deal; that is, if the Knicks would have matched on Fields, they would have been dinged about $5 million in the first two years and somewhere near $9 million in the third, when a far more punitive tax system will be in place under terms of the new CBA.

Same thing with Lin, it averages out if he lands in Houston, it’s a burdensome third year tax-wise if he stays in New York.

 

 

Comments

[Tim H.]

Hey Doug:

Thanks for the explanation of the 'poison pill' (and the fact that it was there also for Fields). But, do you have any idea what the reasoning may be? It almost seems that the purpose it make sure that there is player movement, by 'punishing' the team the player was originally with. Seems strange to me.

Blogger's note: The players wanted the chance at more freedom of movement

[Jason]

Hi Doug -- BC can never be faulted for inaction, as you've noted the Raps will have at least one-third of the team turned over from last season. And while it livens up the off-season, isn't there something to be said about team consistency? For example, continuing with a journeyman guy for another year simply because he's had exposure to the coach's system, his teammates, etc. It does seem that most years we're waiting to see how the 'new' team jells, only to see them turned over in the next off-season and we start again. Is that the price of mediocrity or the cause of it?

[Arris]

Hey Doug,

With regard to the "poison pill" and averaging the salary over three years if Houston "wins," if Houston were to trade Lin in his third year, what is the cap hit to the new team? Actually...even if he stays with New York and is traded in year three, what's the deal?

Blogger's note: I don't know the answer to that, I believe it would be assuming Houston's obligation since that's the contract

[Aditya]

haha landry @ $6.3 million a year...wow.... we could have got OJ Mayo with this kind of money....screw BC....there were better deals to be had if he had been a little patient.

[John]

The "poison pill" has nothing to do with players increasing their chance at movement. In fact, it LIMITS player movement. Under the previous rule, the Knicks would have NO CHANCE of keeping Lin or Fields. The Rockets and Raptors could have made offers with not only high third year salary but also high first and second year salaries that the Knicks would have been powerless to match. The only "poison pill" is the pill of severely limited first and second year salary that guys like Lin have to swallow in the name of RESTRICTING PLAYER MOVEMENT. Lin, Fields, and Asik would have been de-facto UNRESTRICTED free agents under the pre-2005 CBA, but this rule has legitimately RESTRICTED them.

[Mark]

Doug,

I completely agree about the level of boneheadedness at sporting events, it may even be a reason I go to less Raptors games nowadays (and it can't be due to the level of competition because I watch summer league for crying out loud!). It seems like there are always a few contrarians in the stands who like to stand up and turn towards the rest of the crowd and cheer whenever an opponent scores, really trying to incite the crowd.

I get they're proud that the team they're cheering for is usually the one winning the game (i.e., not the Raptors!) but trying to incite 19,000 people is just silly and ruins the game for the families that want to come as it usually ends in bold Toronto fans yelling and swearing at the contrarian. This is why I stream most games online - I just can't be bothered by a minority ruining an event for the majority.

[Josh B]

I'm not sure if the macho aggression at sporting events is so much a product of our times. I share your sense of repulsion, but suspect it's more a product of getting on in years. I remember vividly skipping school and heading down to Exhibition stadium for the season opener. We'd be seated out in the hinterlands beyond left field but it was optimal viewing conditions for some truly frightening and, I felt at the time, very entertaining human behaviour. But, not too long ago, I learned that I'm not cut out for this level of pandemonium when I attended the FC/Galaxy Champions League match at Rogers and stood, confused and troubled, while the frenzied, drunken supporters carried on around me. I'm not embarrassed to admit that I didn't get it, and I won't be back.

[sam]

@ Doug - It's just not in the stands at sporting events where the lack of civility seems to be apparent. Recently a co-worker was accosted by a group of teenagers over a simple misunderstanding over a parking spot. $2,500 worth of damage to his car and the confrontation left him a little shaken up.

The injuries on the TOD seem to keep piling up. Snake bitten - a depleted pitching staff, and now Bautista with a wrist injury.

[Mos High]

That is one of the issues of going to Football games in some cities, NFL, CFL or even American College.
Some people get so boozed up that even if your tipsy, they make you sober. Its like a bunch of wild animals. Just hope you get a decent area, where there isnt the super group of knuckle heads.

I Like the "poison pill" ideal in the NBA.. But for Lin and his squeaky clean image is over with New York team mates (or I should say soon to be ex team mates). Truthfully said, we dont know what inital negotiations were, but this final deal of last year and would cost team a large amount in Luxury tax burns. I think he doesnt want to play in New York or he would make it happen. Anyways good for Lin and cashing in.

I love seeing the knicks in confusion. Its sweet just like watching sorry guys the Leaf's tumble and fall. Big money franchise's who dont have any spark

[Mike D.]

Did anyone else notice that the weather has become a lot hotter and more humid since the Raptors traded James Johnson? I blame Bryan Colangelo.

[coachd]

Hi Doug,
Couldn't agreee more with your take on the boorish behaviour of fans. Sadly, it's not just at the professional level that you see that kind of behaviour. If you've walked into a hockey rink anywhere in Canada in the last 20 years you'll know what I mean. As for James Johnson, I think that while he seems like a decent young man , he's already ticked off two of the leagues best coaches in Thibodeau and Casey. Not sure how many more chances he's got left. He might be playing himself out of the league.

[Brad B.]

Doug,

I think fan reaction at games is just a part of the bigger social symptom of an "Us versus Them" mentality that does not allow for peaceful coexistence anymore. You see it as much in politics and gangland shootouts as in sport. I don't know if it has to do with the degradation of absolutes, but nobody wants validation that their cause is the "right" one, no matter how silly or serious the issue is. There is no thought as to the effect of the individual's actions on others. This indifference is going to kills us all one day.

[doug]

@sditya again you show your lack of b-ball knowledge, why would we even sign or want to sign O.J.Mayo?, he's a one dimensional player and a shooting guard, last thing we need now, whereas Lowry is a 2 dimensional player with a multitude of tools..yesterday on here snake-oil salesman was discussed that to me is OJ Mayo and is agents etc, as he was this so-called wonder kid coming out of high school, then uni at USC then all that hype propelled him into a 3rd overall pick, he is what he is and 60% of it is hype and people just not believing that there is no more to him, his game has plateaued and properly did 5 years ago....he will always be a bit/part player from here on in, he's not a key piece by any means to any team...my way of looking at certain fans at a game is this, out of 25,000 lets say, if 50 act like boors then that's not bad, so don't let a few ying yangs spoil the fun, yes they can be distracting but they are who they are...idiots...but I do think security should be beefed up and at times confrontational fans quickly dealt with as when a game goes on, emotions/passions/imbibing can increase and by then it's too late...a classic rock keyboardist passed, one of the best, co-writer of this classic hit...Jon Lord R.I.P.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7ZF2xaNhyw

[Bruce]

Doug,
I was at the same game on Saturday, but with a completely different experience. I was wearing my Argo shirt in the middle of a bunch of rabid ticat fans. Other than some ribbing when the ticats went up 21-0, the fans were quite cordial. Sure there were the "argos suck" cheers, but no personal nastiness at all. They asked where we had come from (near Stratford), and wished us a safe drive home at the end of the game. So maybe all is not lost!

[Lorie]

Hello Doug,
Sideways rain, blustery winds, cool temperatures? Sounds like perfect(ly normal Open) weather for Royal Lytham and St. Anne's, too. Yesterday Loretta Lynn, Dolly Parton and Emmylou Harris - among many others - were paying tribute to Kitty Wells who passed away Monday at the age of 92. I love this recent videorecording of Kitty, KD Lang, Brenda Lee and Loretta Lynn performing "Honky Tonk Angels Medley". Timeless.
http://youtu.be/JkXFFOOs_3g
And not long ago I read these words by Emmylou Harris: "As citizens we have to be thoughtful and educated and more informed. I turn on the TV and I see these people screaming at each other, and I think, well, if we don't get our civility back, we're in trouble." I'm thinking we have to get to some point where we understand that respecting others' opinions doesn't mean we're not being true to our own. It's essential. And I think it's possible. Yes, even at Ivor Wynne. Cheers.

[Basketball Barry from the Bay (now in Sarasota again)]

is the "aggressive" sports fan not just a sample of today's society where people BRING guns to a block party - and subsequently shoot them off repeatedly when some perceived slight to their manhood occurs...
(are people put through a metal detector when entering pro sports venues? - I'm from the "boonies" of North Bay but don't remember being scanned when attending a Blue Jays game in June)

[marc in panama]

Hola Doug,

"The lack of civility in the stands can be troubling" – an interesting headline today, as Toronto wakes up to news of a shooting at a BBQ. How soon before an incident like what happened in LA where a Giants fan was beaten and left for dead for having the audacity to wear a Giants jersey occurs in Toronto? There's been shootings in food courts, how long before something tragic occurs at a Raptors/Leafs/Jays/TFC game because some one feels dissed by someone else cheering for or against their team? I hope I'm wrong, but the way things are going, I fear it'll be sooner rather than later.

My thoughts are with the victims and the the families.

Ciao amigo.

marc in panama

[g.t.]

i don't know Doug fans have always been rowdy. Try going to Phili game wearing the jersey of the opposing team for instance, sure way to get yourself in trouble or at least have some Beer 'accidentally' spilled all over you. Same goes for anywhere in the Great Lakes and US east coast. AS for Toronto, if the teams were more competitive who knows how that would be. Of course I can't imagine the suits at the 100 level at leafs games getting too rowdy :). A lot of corporate seats.

Agree with everyone who says fan behavior is a reflection of the social fabric of the people attending the games, that's why British soccer fans riot but the cricket fans do not.

Barry they do check your possessions when you enter a Stadium, they even scan you when you go to Canada's Wonderland.

[Angelo]

Doug, do the raps have any cap room left assuming Jonas and a minimum salary 3rd point guard are signed?

Blogger's note: Some, not much. Will try to find exact numbers but if 3rd guard's a veteran minimum deal, depending on signing time, it may not have an impact. And who knows what other trades might do. Pretty fluid situation now

[Phil A]

If I'm the GM for the Knicks, I'm not sure I would match Houston's offer. They already have two serviceable point guards in Kidd and Felton and I do think Houston is offering too much money for a player that has shown some signs of brilliance over a span of 25 games. He still has not proven if he can be a consistent performer in this league.

I really like the OJ Mayo signing from the Mavs. He's the type of player that can create his own shot and has shown the ability to play some solid defense when he wants to. I can see him starting at the shooting guard spot for them.

[Geoff Read]

Hi Doug,

Aggressive/obnoxious/drunken fans can ruin the game for everyone around them, no doubt about it. I remember going to an Argos' game when I was probably about 8 years old, and some drunks behind us were swearing and carrying on. Needless to say, I don't remember anything about the game, but I do remember my dad getting increasingly aggravated and being worried he was going to get himself beaten up by these idiots.

More recently, I went to a Flyers/Habs playoff game a couple of years ago in the semifinals in Philadelphia. I wore a Habs' jersey. I was expecting a hard time, but honestly, some of the behaviour of the Philly fans was pretty atrocious. One guy and his 6 year old kid chanted, "French fagg@t" at me in the parking lot, for example. I wanted to point out that half the Flyers' roster was comprised of French Canadians but thought better of it.As one or two people above point out though, even among the Flyers' fans most of the abuse was relatively good-natured.Mind you I did have two different cops tell me that if the Habs won I should take off my jersey before leaving the building. They lost as it turned out.

I won't miss James Johnson. I found his play thoroughly unremarkable.

[doug]

it's funny the above poster mentions the Phillies and their fans..so on this hot day if you don't mind I would like to share a little personal story about a Phillie fan...my buddy and I, my best friend for years were at Wrigley Field watching Expos-Cubs a few years ago...well as were leaving the stadium, this fan who was wearing a Eagles jersey starts going on about the Phillies and how they could kick and will kick the Expos ass (as these were the Mike Schmidt.Expo rivalry years and my buddy was wearing a Expos t....well my buddy who is not a fighter or a protagonist in any fashion had had enough he finally says and motions to the Phillie fan "hey buddy I have your Phillies right here", grabbing a certain of his body, well this didn't sit well with the Phillie's fan he says "what", my buddy says and does the motion again...well this Phillie fan and his 3 buddies fight through crowd and I say to my buddy frig I wish you hadn't did that their ticked, they want to go....now I am don't seek out altercations but if action is called for in a particular situation then so be it, but my buddy couldn't throw a punch if his life depended on it...so we walked faster, tried evasive moves but we were penned in by the crowd as anyone leaving a sporting event or concert knows...so we get right outside Wrigley and these guys are still escalating, finally I say you want to go let's go...so tensions are increasing and I could see there was no choice...but out of the blue as it was moreorless me against 4 guys, come these 2 other guys, shaved short hair,(back then not common) and stocky fellows..they say to me what's going on, I say these Phillie fans want to rumble...he says "F**k the Phillie fans", were ex-Marines so we got your back....so then it was 4 against us 3.5...the Phillie fans backed down and off we went with these 2 guys to Murphy's Bleachers to tip back a few and have a few laughs.and give it to me buddy for shooting off his mouth (which he has never did again)...so that's his and mine personal mantra to this day..."f**k the Phillie fans", we say it to each other on the golf course etc and just have a laugh, good times and memories...cheers...

[john]

HA! A few weeks ago soccer fans’ behaviour was “passionate”, now that it’s in our backyard its “lack of civility”.
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Must say that I have to agree with yesterday’s poster, if it was accurate, that BC has pretty much turned the Bosh trade into a second round pick. If this is true I think I would have rather seen Bosh take the $20 million hit he would have had to take without the sign and trade but that’s just me….

Blogger's note: Obscene misinterpretation of both but, whatever

[Steve]

"Blogger's note: Some, not much. Will try to find exact numbers but if 3rd guard's a veteran minimum deal, depending on signing time, it may not have an impact. And who knows what other trades might do. Pretty fluid situation now"

Has there been any further talk about Jose being moved anywhere? Talk about that seems to have died off a bit this week. I would personally prefer to see him stay, be it as the backup or the starter, but obviously if he gets moved somewhere that would create a not inconsequential amount of space for another move.

Blogger's note: Nothing cooking right now

[Bob Wesley]

Hey Doug,Raptor's got a second round draft choice for James Johnson.Did'nt they give up a first round draft choice to get him?

Blogger's note: Yep. Which I contend has as much to do with James Johnson as anything. But that's just me.