Is there any use for season tickets any more?

I’m working on this little story yesterday – turns out it doesn’t have a huge impact here because the Raptors aren’t fully involved – and when I was telling someone about it, this question was asked:

Why does anyone buy season tickets any more?

Good question.

The story – the NBA and Ticketmaster are combining forces on a secondary ticket market website where teams and people can unload excess inventory – led to a discussion, and some thought, about the whole ticket issued as it pertains to pro sports around these parts these days.

And I wondered: Are season tickets even worth it now?

Can’t be, can they be?

It’s not like you can’t get a seat to a game if you want it, and you can sit pretty much anywhere you want and pay whatever price you like. It’s not like the good old days when the HOTH sold out 40 of 41 nights a year in the Vince Era; it’s not like the good old days when the TOD drew 54,000 a night to concrete bubble downtown; even the Pucks have seats available if you want them.

So what’s the value in season tickets?

I guess I could see eight guys going in on four seats, maybe; I suppose business still like to have them to parcel out to clients and employees as some perk but past that?

I know some teams – the Raptors being one of them – offer some kind of perks to people who fork over big bucks, insider stuff like the odd meet-and-greet with players and management but is that enough?

Do teams need to do more over longer periods than just the season to entice people into committing large amounts of money on little more than faith that that the team will be good?

Do they have to offer even more perks that normal people can’t get and what would those perks be? In this day and age of uber-expensive tickets and the fact you can always get a seat to pretty much any game you want, I don’t see a reason now to commit lots of money off the top.

Do you?

As for the Ticketmaster plan, what it does, I guess, is give teams more control and provides one-stop shopping for people who want to either get what’s left or pick up seats that ticket-holders don’t want to use.

But that’s also what places like Stubhub do, with the one difference being the market dictates the price in that case, not the team.

I can remember reading about a Stubhub ticket for some Nets game last year where the price dropped to less than $1 and some games went for $5. In a secondary-ticket market, that’d be what I’d want as a buyer, a chance to pay true market rate rather than some arbitrary amount set by a team or a league or a person who’s looking to cut his losses.

Now, since I don’t buy a lot of tickets, I’m wondering what the public perception is? People? What have you got?

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Not sure I’ll see this or anything like it from Section 524B on Friday night but, man, this is pretty good, no?

Bruce, Little Steven, a legendary anthem.

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Okay, Hazelville and surrounding area locals, pay attention.

If you’re wandering by Long Branch and have a hankering for a burger, you cannot do better than Woody’s.

Excellent find by Super Wife and Super Son, it’s a little dive on a corner and now supplants Five Guys near the top of the go-to burger list.

Try the cheddar-stuffed one, you won’t regret it and the tasty micro-brewed pilsner was a nice find, wish I’d remembered the name.

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Mail?

Yeah, let’s get started.

Not much basketball to talk about, really, but there must be other stuff on your mind, right?

Click. Write. Send. Say hello. It’s always nice to hear from old friends.

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So I get home and get to the couch – man, I missed that couch – and flip on the TOD game because, well, because that’s habit and, frankly, I’m kind of interested to see how Ricky Romero does because I quite like him as a pitcher and he’s always been a stand-up guy when I’ve had the chance to talk to him.

Well, he gets hammered – his own doing with eight walks in six innings – and it’s kind of tough to watch.

I don’t know what’s gone wrong with him – doesn’t seem that anyone does – but I do know this: He’s handling himself with class and dignity and I am sure he’ll come out of this mess a better pitcher and probably a better guy.

I’m always interested in seeing how athletes react to adversity, whether they look for things to blame – sometimes with veiled references to outside forces, sometimes blatantly – or whether they take responsibility.

Romero does.

Read Griff’s piece here, Romero is a stand-up guy, fully willing to heap the blame on himself, fully wiling to stand an answer questions when there are athletes who would run and hide.

Look, there is no doubt Romero’s a gifted major league pitcher, you don’t win as many games as he has over his career without having above-average stuff.

It’s also no secret that he’s lost it for this season, can’t figure out what’s wrong exactly and lurches from start to start a little bit mystified and wondering what’s going to come out of his arm every time he takes the mound.

But he walks out there every four or five days with his head high to give it what he’s got and if he doesn’t have it, he accepts it, tries to explain it and gets ready to do it all again.

Will his ‘A’ stuff come back? Undoubtedly.

But I think fans have learned more about him in failure as they did when things were going well. And that’s got to be the only good thing to come out of this lost season.

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Hey, looks like I might have to go cover the Bills on Saturday night, someone catch me up on the football, would you?

Thanks.

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Comments

[Peter]

Woody's!!!!! You were steps from where I lived until 6 months ago. Did you try Fairgrounds, across the road? I'm not a coffee guy, but the staff there are all pretty friendly.

Blogger's note: Saw it, but didn't go in

[Wayne]

I buy season tickets to my University team but I look at that more as a donation rather than as a paying for tickets. I enjoy seeing the University games because the players give 100% every game and while the athleticism is not quite on the same level as the pros, the players actually appreciate the support. Not sure I could say the same about the pros which is why I don't buy their tickets.

[jerry]

The value in season's tickets comes mostly from optimism... knowing you'll have access to all the games you want should the team ever turn around, and more importantly the option to buy playoff tickets at face value.

The Stubhub numbers reported were artificially low, as they did not include transaction costs, which are often outrageously high. If I recall the $1 raptor ticket I tried to purchase came close to $16 with fees.

[Josh C.]

Hey Doug,

In regards to your microbrewed pilsner, if it's from Ontario, I'm guessing it might be King Pilsner, Creemore Springs Traditional Pilsner, F&M Stone Hammer Pilsner, or Old Credit Pale Pilsner (and not Steam Whistle as you're probably already familiar with that).

Cheers,
Josh

[511]

Regarding Ricky, for weeks now, I’ve found myself wishing Shaun Marcum was there to remind him of the thing that (I once read) he liked to say: Pitch like a man. Those words would undoubtedly sound extremely impolite coming from myself or any other fan, but ... I really suspect (don’t we all?) that it’s mental disposition and attitude, more than any other one thing. I wouldn’t have thought it’d be so difficult to fix. Looking forward to seeing him pull out of it.

Among the Springsteen concerts I’ve attended (several), the one that always comes to mind first was back in the day, probably at Bruce’s zenith (’85). My wife and I bought tickets from a guy (paid a little more than the original price) for ‘Royal Box’ seats in the CNE grandstand. Hadn’t been sitting long when there was some organized commotion suddenly approaching, an entourage of eight or ten well dressed people, two of whom were (then) Premier David Peterson and his wife. They sat in the row directly ahead, exactly in front of us ... and one of the OPP body guards sat his polite-but-beefy self right next to me (it didn’t matter how I leaned, his arm and shoulder seemed always in contact). The concert was great but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a tad distracted for most of the show. Cramped ... and maybe a bit crimped. (Lol.)

[David in Oakville]

Morning Doug,

For teams without any bona fide stars I think you are dead on... why commit to a ticket purchase upfront when a deal may be available further on down the road. I am not sure it's quite true to say "you can sit anywhere for any price". My experience looking for good seats (first ten rows) last year suggests that the owners of those seats can still likely make their money back.. but the others not. Craigslist and eTorontoTickets have always acted as a pseudo secondary ticket market but it is easy to see why the NBA is trying to squeeze every penny from all possible ticket sales.
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At this point, there is nothing that the Raps can offer that would entice me to purchase season seats... and to think it was only three seasons ago that season seats came with a seat license.
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This season we are looking at one or two games locally (likely purchased through Craigslist) and saving our money for a February - March California road trip as you suggested many many mailbags ago.
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The Raps have a real problem... living in the burbs it is hard to justify a weeknight trip in (given the horrendous traffic and the number of Toronto drivers who think reading & driving is a smart time management technique) if we are going to end up leaving after three quarters because the Raps are just not competitive on that night.
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Thanks for the Woodys heads up... will be sure to try next time we are in that neighbourhood.

[sam]

As long as there are corporations with deep pockets there will be Season Tickets. The only Raptors/Leafs/Jays games I've been to in recent years have been work related. As an individual - the cost in time and money to go to a game, unless you live in downtown Toronto, is a little out of reach for a lot of people. Travel time, Transportation and Parking add up - As do ticket prices, and refreshments. It's the economics that make it more difficult to be an onsight fan of the games.

[Wilber]

A group of us bought a pair when the Raps moved into a real arena in '99. As part of the renewal process, you get to move up to better seats if available and we now find ourselves in what I think are great upper deck seats (2nd row, about foul line, behind Raps bench). I've sat down below back in the corners and I prefer being up top to watch the flow of the game. We've had good luck sharing amongst the group, but we've also done well using StubHub to move tickets. We put almost all our games up there last year, adjusting pricing whether we really wanted to see the game, or whether it became a "hot" ticket. Occasionally, we were surprised to find games we thought we had vastly overpriced had sold (thank you, Linsanity!), in which case we laughed, took our profits and either bought cheaper seats or watched on TV. We just enjoy going, whether it's Milwaukee on a Tuesday night or the Lakers on a Sunday afternoon. If an established easy-to-use secondary market didn't exist, perhaps we let the seats go. Although I'm still holding on to hope that those seats will be great for a playoff game.

[David]

Why do I have season seats? Living in mid-town, it's not hard for me to get to and from games, my seats are as good as you can get in my price range and I get them at a 20% discount without any service charges. I re-sell half to two thirds of the games at cost, so I pretty much get a nice selection of games with a discounted price - but the seat is superior to what I would get buying ad-hoc or mini-paks. You do get a different appreciation of the game seeing it live, watching all players moving instead of just whom the camera is following. And I don't have to listen to Leo Rautins, not for home games.

There are the events, like draft parties and meet and greets. Last season, MLSE gave each season ticket holder $50 in food and beverage vouchers - not discounts, but vouchers good like cash. So while the food is really overpriced, I got $50 worth of it for free. Some of my tickets are a tax write-off for business. All of this is good enough (barely) to keep me as a season seat holder through these lean years. As soon as the team makes the playoffs again, even just as eighth place cannon fodder for the Heat, season seat holders do find they have long lost friends.

[Robert]

I was a Raptors season seat holder for two years (the Chris Bosh playoff years) and it allowed me to go to a handful of games and I sold the rest at face value.

Now with demand low, it would be tough for season seat holders to sell off extra tickets, and as a buyer, I prefer to just buy tickets for the games I want to go to.

I think the only value (for my purposes) of season seats is if a team was perennial playoff contender, consistently had a good chance of getting out of the first round. Playoff ticket prices shoot up exponentially and are hard to come by.

Unfortunately, the Raptors aren't a contender for at least a year or two or more.

[Bo4]

Hi, Doug. A couple of notes today ...

First of all, the Raptors are going to be contending for a playoff spot for the next 7 years, until after Jonas peaks. Those season tickets are going to have some value, starting this season.

Secondly, I think that pitchers sometimes make the mistake of aiming for the edge of the strikeout box too often. Logic tells me that when you don't have your stuff, aim for the centre of the strike zone because you're going to miss it anyway! Risky, yes. However, better than being in a funk ... for months.

[LeeZ]

Regarding the season tickets thing, I live in Ottawa and for the past several years I've bought Raps tickets a couple of times a year on Kijiji. Against good draws (Celtics, for example). And with a little bit of patience, I always end up paying no more than half the ticket price, for GREAT seats. Sat courtside once for a hundred bucks! I don't know if this whole Ticketmaster idea will ever fly, what with Kijiji available.
As for RR, he's a great kid, and you can't help but feel for him, but...for years I've always wondered how he gets guys out. He used to get guys to swing at the WORST pitches. I think it might be a case of the league finally seeing the light and saying, "we're gonna put the take sign on and make this guy PROVE he can throw strikes", and once that happened, the walks started to pile up (and up, and up). He's basically a two-pitch pitcher (the slow sweeping curve and the fastball), and I think the league has figured him out. Doug, I'm not quite as sanguine as you are when it comes to him getting back his "A" stuff. I really think they should demote him (as they did with Doc; how'd that turn out?) and let him work out the kinks pressure free.

[Mike D.]

At the risk of being ridiculed, I kind of like having season tickets: when you sit in the same place for a few years you get to know the security people and the servers in your area a little better and you see some of the other fans on a regular basis. It just enhances the overall game experience.

I share mine with a few other folks so the cost isn't insane; I might feel differently if I had to pay the full freight every year for 45 home games.

[recommended reading]

Per your discussion of how athletes handle adversity, I strongly recommend watching the following video of Emily Batty. http://www.cyclingdirt.org/coverage/249669-2012-US-Pro-XCT-Subaru-Cup/video/653890-Emily-Batty-First-Interview-After-the-London-Letdown

As we know, she raced with a broken clavical and managed to finish. This video perfectly captures the post-Olympic disappointment, and optimism and self confidence of elite athletes.

I also recommend the story about Ian Dobson and Julia Lucas' efforts to qualify for the London Olympics. http://www.propellermag.com/Summer2012/Heald1Summer12.html
It is a great read, and reflects on the nature of sport, fandom and the human side of athletes.

[Peter]

Hi Doug,

You mentioned in your article that the Raptors can't participate "because there is no legal secondary marketing of tickets in Ontario"

Does that mean that it is illegal for season's ticket holders to sell their tickets? I had heard in the past that selling tickets is no different than scalping tickets in the eyes of the law, but clearly there are a lot of season's ticket holders, even within the comments today, that sell their tickets. Can you clarify? Is this legal? Because it sort of sounds like the team feels that it isn't.

Blogger's note: Private sales, I understand, are fine; use of a broker is technically illegal, or so I was told.

[james]

I need advice. What is the best way for someone to acquire tickets if they are coming from a great distance and want to see two or three games over a ten-day period? (For example, Minnesota, Philadelphia and Utah between November 4 and 12).

Blogger's note: I'd say wait and get 'em through the team when single-game seats go on sale, which isn't yet. Anyone else?

[Mike kovacs]

I am part of a group that has 2 seats and I get 15% of them which works out to 6 or 7 games depending on where I am in the game draft. I like this because, as you know Doug, we have very good seats and because they are season tickets they are cheaper than buying single games.

[doug]

I think too many were to quick to rush in and drink the A.A.kool-aid especially after the J.P. debacle...to me our coaching staff has not elevated players to the next level, and at the beginning of the year all we saw on t.v. was A.A. extolling the virtues of the drafts/prospects we have...I have always said prospects are just that, look at the definition of the word, none of them have shone and I don't see one of them being a grade A type major league player...as for Romero he was ordained the number one guy far to early after a good season and a half, with number one status comes pressure/expectations and Romero feels he has failed and it shows...best thing for this whole staff would be for A.A. to sign in the off-season a legitimate number 1 or 2 guy a veteran that has been thru the fire....it would take pressure off the young'uns and let them develop within their own time frame not a forced one...and bring in a new pitching coach as well as promote Chad Mottola..and oh yea sign some free agents, some veterans that cna play and have a proven track record...this off-season and next year are big for me as far as A.A. goes, so far all he has been selling his pipe dreams...time for results....cheers...

[Rob]

I have had platinum season tickets for the past 15 years, which i split with my best friend. 3 years ago we also managed to move our seats from 16th row to 2nd row centre court. Its sick what they cost, especially when compared to other comparable seats in other NBA arenas, but when i go to a game, i'll pay extra to have that special 'immersed' in the action feel...so close you can hear the players and what the coach is yelling. Obviously, i can't afford all the 23 games i get each year, so i sell most of them and keep about 7-8 prime games myself.

But each year its a gamble, i could be stuck for a bunch of unwanted tickets or be forced to sell them at a huge loss.

But if the raptors return to playoff team for a couple of years, then i cant sell enough for these good seats, i usually have more demand than supply.

oh and if what the previous poster is saying about not legally being allowed to resell seats..........i would drop the season tickets instantly.....and so would thousands others.....which i doubt would help the raptors.

[Angelo]

Season tickets only make sense on a winning team with post 1st round playoff aspirations.. Until then My 52" HD TV will suffice.

[Bob Wesley]

Hey Doug,HWSNBN got named ??

[Jeff]

I have been a season seat holder since day one (at Skydome). i am what you would call a hardcore fan but even I have my limits. I live in the 905 area and a Raptors game offers me great value for my entertainment dollar. Our seats are front row upper deck and the price per game is only $80 for the pair. "Reselling" your tickets for a higher price is techincally illegal but I pay the same price for basic and premium games. In theory I could resell all of my tickets at a 10% discount from the price on the ticket and make a nice profit. However, we handle it differently. There are three primary owners of the tickets so my share comes to roughly $1200 for the season. Where we save money is by NEVER spending a dime on concessions. We meet downtown (usually Jack Astors) for a relaxng meal and then enjoy the game. Unlike some fans, I am happy to take the crappy games - the ones we actually do well in. I enjoy taking a client to a game (tax deduction) and dinner (more of the same) and park at a $6 lot. My net cost (after deductions) for the night is typically $55-65. Parking, dinner and a game for two people? Yup. Oh, by the way, I know many of the ushers at the ACC and usually end up sitting in the lower bowl for many games.

[KJ]

StubHub is allowed to operate in Ontario so there is a secondary ticket market. The provincial government shutdown TicketMaster's resale subsidiary because they said TicketMaster wasintentially holding back tickets for their re-sale arm which turned around and sold them at inflated prices. Until this was shutdown, I bought lots of Raptor tickets this way but can assure you if there was in fact, they weren't making anything off Raptor tickets i.e. they were always below face value.