How low can those NBA ratings go?

Admittedly, Tuesday was a pretty rough night for sports television if pucks and skates weren't part of the package. CBC drew more than 1.9 million viewers for Vancouver's 3-1 victory over Chicago. TSN's Anaheim-Detroit game attracted 528,000 viewers even though it ended well after midnight in the east.

But even with that kind of competition, you'd think the second round of the NBA playoffs would do better than it did Tuesday. The Dallas-Denver game averaged 17,000 viewers on The Score, which is about the same size audience that would stick through an hour of static.

But that was positively huge compared to the audience TSN2 drew for LeBron James' Cleveland Cavaliers and the Atlanta Hawks: 9,000. Yes, it's TSN2 and it's still not on Rogers Cable (13 days to Jay-Day, if you're counting.) But there are 3 a.m. kitchen magician infomercials that do better.

Heck, maybe next time TSN2 can just invite the audience to its studios and save transmission costs.

Comments

[Mike]

Chris, if and when a TSN2 announcement is made, how quickly could Rogers start showing the channel? You've already mentioned that they are "clearing space" (whatever that means) so if a deal comes tomorrow, could someone watch it on the weekend?

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BLOGGER'S REPLY
Mike,
You could be watching it the next day because it will either be free to TSN subscribers or on a free preview.
Chris Zelkovich

[adam beatty]

How can you not be making a bigger deal of the fact that most people in Toronto cannot watch around half of the NBA playoff games? This is positively ridiculous.

BLOGGER'S REPLY
I think between Doug Smith and me, we've given a fair bit of coverage to the TSN2 story.
Chris Zelkovich

[Peter Brown]

Since I couldn't get the Cavs/Hawks game on TV, I watched it on a streaming TV site. Sure, small, choppy image that doesn't compare with cable, except in this respect: it's FREE. Perhaps I need to re-examine the economic model of my household expenditures and cancel my Rogers digital cable.

[furcifer]

I don't think anyone could place this blame on TSN2. Even if the Raps are playing few are watching. If the Raps aren't playing nobody's watching. Basketball is to Canada what hockey is to the U.S. They have few dedicated fans but the majority could care less.

[Andrew Peterson]

Why is no mention ever made of how inaccurate many people consider the ratings to be. They use an out-dated model to base their predictions on.

Plus, there are an estimated 500K in the GTA area alone that are using FTA satellite to watch their television. To measure the true interest in a sport or series other factors need to be examined besides just television ratings.
For example, Youtube now tracks statistics based on location. Often times the most watched videos for Canada are NBA highlights. These factors need to be taken into consideration and not just relying on ratings, which are estimations based on an outdated model.

[Zaddups]

I agree with Andrew Peterson!...this writer is always quick to say Basketball has no ratings...but I am a huge basketball fan and I know there are tons more watching than what he says...First of all doesn't Raptors TV have something like 400,000 subscribers? Much more than Leafs TV. So you mean to tell me that there aren't way more than that watching basketball on the other larger networks...c'mon Mr. Zelkovich! I know tons of hoops fans...and nobody I know has ever had a Neilson box or whatever they use to count the ratings! Where are these boxes? They're obviously not in households who watch ball. Why don't you do an article on the ratings process and let us know how it's done...instead of always saying no one is watching hoops. If they would just show the games on 1 or 2 networks it would be easier for all of us to watch the games. Instead we get this whole TSN2 Farce and the only reason they are going to get the deal done is because what an embarassment it would be if the Jays were not seen by Rogers customers since Rogers owns the Jays. I'm fed up and tired of Basketball not getting respect in Canada! The Raps sellout half their games in a terrible season like this past season and people are still questioning the sports viability! Face it...there is a demographic shift in Ontario and Canada as well towards other sports than hockey. WHY EVER ARE THERE ANY POSITIVE ARTICLES FROM YOU SIR..ABOUT BASKETBALL? PLEASE EXPLAIN?
Sir BASKETBALL is here to stay! So stop fighting it...it's going nowhere! I am tired of having to defend this sport...Basketball is a Global sport...hockey is not even comparable worldwide!
I am born and raised here in Canada. There can be interest in other sports such as Basketball and Soccer. Canada doesn't have to be a ONE SPORT COUNTRY!

[Josh]

Very, very disappointed that TSN decided to show "Friday Night Fights" on their main network and on TSN2 they have the playoff series I was hoping to watch: Nuggets vs. Mavs.
That decision makes absolutely no sense from a sports perspective. TSN as the "sports leader" should be embarrassed.

[Josh O'Donnell]

They did that so that basketball wouldn't run into NASCAR coverage, that came on at 7. They did it quite a few times during the week, so that basketball wouldn't run into hockey as well.

[chris]

Sadly Zaddups, there are too many people in this country who don't share that viewpoint. Man should not live on bread alone. Yet the puckheads seem to think otherwise.

[Clarkie 90210]

The thing is that the Raptors are Canada's only team, but they are not the national rallying cry. They are Toronto's team and the ratings on TV are quite unsightly. The Raptors do have a good and dedicated fan base who regularly fill the ACC and that is a good thing. Outside of the GTA few care, both at the box office and on TV.

I ask this question to Zaddups?
If you care about basketball so much, how much do you follow university and college basketball in this country?

[Zaddups]

Well Clarkie...I love all types and levels of Basketball...
I watch CIS basketball and I also watch and attend OCAA basketball as well.
Plus I attend High School ball games in Toronto and throughout the Province. I even watch WNBA ball sometimes. You may not believe it but there are alot of basketball fans in this province and others as well!

But what does me watching College or University ball have to do with the fact that I don't know anyone who's ever had a ratings box in my life?
I'm just sick of all the negativity from certain members of the media and establishment that keep slagging basketball.
Face it...the demographics in this country are changing and alot of the Newer inhabitants in this great country are not into Hockey. They played soccer...baskeball...cricket.
Listen, Hockey will never be supplanted as the number one sport in Canada...but there is no reason that Canada cannot support and fund(economically) other sports and see kids develop in other sports. This country can be good in other sports besides Hockey.
All I want is respect for the people who do like Basketball and there are tons of them despite the so-called "low ratings" numbers that are always posted here.
Hoops isn't going anywhere...so keep trying to keep it down all the haters. In fact it's the fastest growing sport these days.
Hoops is here to stay.

[Mike]

well, to be fair, one of the reasons nobody has known someone who has a Neilsen box is that the whole process is highly secretive and confidential. If you did happen to meet someone who was bragging about having one, my guess is that it'll be taken away in less than a week. I'm not joking, they apparently take it very seriously.

But that's not to say that there can't be problems with the system. I'm not sure exactly how it's broken down, but if I recall a Star article from 2 years ago correctly, BBM does make sure they have the correct demo %'s when it comes to age and income but they don't make any adjustment for race. That could lead to a fatal flaw in the system. Theoretically without any controls in place the boxes could be given to 90% white people to represent an area with 35-40% visible minorities.

And once you get a box, you're allowed to keep it for as long as you want (or until you violate one of the conditions). So someone who helped make All in the Family the #1 show 35 years ago is still helping American Idol be #1 today.

[Chris Moltisano]

Zaddups you like basketball, but like a hockey fan in Alabamie, you're in the tiny minority. And we in Canada do support other sports besides hockey. The CFL is easily the second most popular league in this country. Soccer is growing. Basketball? Its been here over ten years now, and TV ratings get worse and worse. You may know people who watch basketball, but I know alot more who don't. Face facts here. People in Canada do not like basketball. Get over it.

[Zaddups]

To Chris Moltisano...I was born and raised in Canada...so the "we in Canada" applies to me as well!
I'm also not sure where "Alabamie" is...but I guess you meant Alabama.

Here's a quote from a Globe and Mail article on January 16, 2009

"Basketball is one of the country's fastest-growing sports for children aged 5 to 14, with participation rates rising from 14 to 19 per cent between 1998 and 2005, according to a Statistics Canada study released last year. It's also the fifth most popular sport among Canadian adults, behind golf, hockey, swimming and soccer.
While the Toronto Raptors and high-profile athletes such as Steve Nash have generated homegrown hype, league organizers attribute the increase mainly to immigration, as amateur athletes move to Canada from basketball-loving countries such as the Philippines and China."

Here's the link for the complete article...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090116.wlbasketball16/BNStory/lifeMain/home

Of course I don't think Basketball will ever surpass Hockey's popularity in Canada...but the sport is growing and people are watching. I believe the BBM ratings system is severly flawed and I am not the only one that feels this way.
I also think if the Raptors were actually a winning franchise...that the growth of the sport would be even higher and ratings would also jump. In the 12 years the Raptors have been around...the team has mostly been out of the playoffs so the interest has not had a chance to peak yet like when the Jays were winning Back to Back World Series.
Consider also that the Raptors were Top 10 in the NBA in attendance this season(18,773 per game) despite the fact that they were way down near the bottom of the standings.This average was higher than the Boston Celtics who just came off winning the NBA title and only 200 a game lower than the Lakers!

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

Chris you can't generalize and say people in Canada don't like Basketball and "get over it".
There are tons of Canadians who love hoops and play hoops and watch hoops. That's the problem...people like you discount the basketball fans because they don't "look like you talk like you or like the things you like". Canada is a diverse country and it's diversity is growing.

As Mike said above...he thinks the system is flawed as well because the Ratings don't factor in "race" in it's measurements. Alot of basketball fans are from Asia, South Asia, the Caribbean, Europe etc...do these people get boxes?
Who has the boxes...that's what we need to find out!
The fact that you can keep the box as long as you want is a flaw as well. What about all those older people who have had their box for 20 years...do they watch Basketball? Probably not...but they have their box anyways. They don't have to give it up either.
I will not "get over it" as you say! There's nothing to get over...I will continue to fight for respect for the sport I love. There is room in Canada to be good and supportive of many sports...which of course includes Hockey...which I played growing up as a kid and still watch today...although I don't play much anymore!
Hoops will continue to grow...so all you naysayers can keep on doubting it. I won't say I told you so but you've been warned.
There are tons of kids playing hoops in the States and Abroad and some day alot of Canadian kids will want to be just like them...the same way Steve Nash has inspired a generation of hoops fans and participants.
Have a great day!

[Chris Moltisano]

Yeah you keep beleiving that. The Raptors will play an exhibition game here in London, Ontario next year, and i gaurantee you the place will be half empty. Like it was for the last exhibition game here a few years back. You basketball fans in Toronto with all your stats and figures telling us how the game is growing? Yet each year interest gets less and less. And you know what they say about statistics, eh?

[Mike]

http://www.thestar.com/article/205882

I found the article that mentioned it. It's about 2/3rds of the way down. I messed up a few things, income is not considered along with race and there is a 5-year limit on the box so nobody can keep it forever.

Zaddups, I never said the system is flawed, just that it could have flaws in it if not properly done. I would like to think that though they done keep exact stats, their is some conscious thought to prevent the boxes going all to one race. And since its on a five year rotating basis, the demos could shift so that while now it might be under-represented in 1 area, it was over-represented in 2004.

And to your other point, you're never going to know exactly who has the ratings boxes because then the tv channels know too. Then that opens those people to be specifically targeted (and surely harassed or bribed as well) in a way that wouldn't be normal so the whole system would be unreliable. That's the reason for the secrecy, to preserve the integrity of the study. (But there is also the error that comes from the viewer knowing that he/she is being monitored and do they change what they watch because of it? But unless they change some laws that it study error is going to have to stay)

[Mike]

Chris, so you're from london, hmmm. That's interesting. Why do you care so much about trashing basketball? Is it because the team is from Toronto?
Also, there's no reason to lie. The game IS growing and the ratings are UP, despite the TSN2 debacle and the team being terrible. Also, I guess you don't want to look at Raptor playoff ratings (in the years they actually make it, of course) which are quite respectable and 3x or more that regular season numbers.

You say that nobody else cares? Well they did get over 17,500 in Edmonton for a pre-season game (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281021028) and though I couldn't find a boxscore for your precious London game, these pictures (http://sports.webshots.com/album/203463987nJeXBD) show the place is full or close to, but much more than half like you claim. Tell me, did you go to the game to witness the half empty crowd yourself?

Yes, pity us and our "statistics" we use. It's much better to make stuff up, right?

[Clarkie 90210]

Ok, for sure the ratings systems are flawed and archaic. How do you define growth? Incresed participation, high ratings and increased butts in the seats. Basketball has the first for sure, the second has levelled off and I largely attribute that to on-court performance and the third is debatable. The Raps are always going to get their crowds, university and college basketball suffers from a lack of student attendance. I'm not sure I would consider basketball in a true growth, if yo use the three criteria I had (not the most reliable, I will admit)

Zaddups, Mike- I'm with you guys in that I love hoops. I've covered university ball on radio and TV for a number of years now, and even worked with a semi-pro league a couple of years ago that failed spectacularly! I'd love to see the game grow, but at this point I'm not sure it is growing in leaps and bounds.