Reading the fine print on Presto if you can find it

Summer seems like the perfect time for The Toronto Star's Transportation Reporter to test the province's new Presto fare card.

The long-awaited convenience has finally gone live on GO's Lakeshore West line used regularly by the reporter. She also uses the subway and, occasionally, the local bus at either end of her commute.

Presto seemed perfect -- no hunting for change or tokens, no buying different tickets depending on whether we're commuting from Clarkson or Aldershot, and no need to calculate 10-ride or monthly pass discounts for a period in which the commuter will likely be off for a week or more on vacation. It's supposed to do all that for us. Plus we can avoid the beginning-of-the-month line up for our monthly pass because we can load our card online.

This reporter has easily written a dozen stories touting Presto's convenience.

But in all the interviews with Presto officials, not one person has mentioned the card's default and over-ride features, which you need to know about before you buy a card for $6 and load it up with more of your hard-earned loonies.

The Presto website gives these features only a passing reference and refers you to the GO ticket agents who sell the cards for more information.

So in the interest of full disclosure you should know that Presto packs a subtle punch if you veer from your regular commute.

When you buy the card you'll be asked if you'd like to pick a default setting. That means when you do your usual commute you need only tap Presto before you get on the train.

But if you get on at another station not part of your card default setting, you have to remember to press the over-ride button on the electronic Presto reader at your departure time and then tap and press that button again when you arrive at your destination.

It's not that the additional tap and button take a long time, it's just that human beings can be forgetful, especially if they're rushing off the train.

What happens if you forget to activate the over-ride is anybody's guess since neither the ticket agent or the website told us that. If you take a trip shorter than your usual trip, do you forfeit the difference if you forget to tap when you get off the train? If you take a longer trip, could Presto be enabling cheaters and unwittingly setting all of us up for fare increases?

 We've emailed our questions via the Presto site and received an electronic assurance that we'll get a reply within five business days. We'll let you know.

Comments

[rosedale71]

If the Presto is designed to work like London's Oyster card system, then it will improve GO service by light years! The TTC should adopt something similar. Despite their age and infrastructures, European transit systems have made huge strides in staying efficient, cost-effective, and popular... why we have such an inefficient and cash-strapped system in Toronto is mind-boggling.

[obama bin laden]

really don't understand why they make things so difficult and can't program their system to make proper calculations. one just needs to travel to asia to see how simple and convenient these cards can be if implemented properly. push a button to override??? fire the programmers!

[Dan]

For all the unknown variables - including the possibility that if you pay with interac; your bank account will be identified and your trips most likely stored in a database. This could enable people working for Go-Transit or other companies to extract information that would reveal your daily commute times. This could lead to your home being robbed when you are away.

Buy a monthly and you won't have any worries... who cares if it's a little more - at least you don't have to worry about whether or not you tapped it.

[James]

I simply declined the option of picking a default setting, precisely for the reasons outlined above. I don't mind tapping twice as often as someone who did pick a default. But I also get on and off at multiple stations more often than the average commuter.

[Jon]

All they have to do is have the same system at they have here in Amsterdam with the same system called OV-chipcard. Where you have to punch in and out every trip, when you punch in you automatically put a deposit (7€ for the bus or metro, 20€ for the train) which you automatically get back when you punch out. If you don't punch out you lose the cash. It stops cheaters and you learn pretty quick not to forget to punch out.

Jon

[Ovrproof]

I agree, after returning from a year and a half in Asia - Toronto's transit system is pathetic. "Smart" cards shouldn't need an over ride buttons - the program should be able to calculate fares by themselves. I think that we should import the technology from Asia or Europe wholesale because it takes us way too long to try to make a horrible version of it. The transit problem in Toronto is making the city unlivable.

[Jordan]

Presto is not very forthcoming with their customer service. There seems to be no way to contact them by phone, and their e-mail replies are one-line answers that are barely comprehensible. The idea is good enough to make it worthwhile, though -- just need to get the TTC on-board with it.

[NewDaddy]

The pitfall of this is human stupidity at its best. The system allows you to incur a negative balance but if you load the card online the money will sit in limbo until you go to an actual agent to load some money "manually". That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life. It has a negative balance because it won't allow the money to be credited to the account but without that happening it will remain with a negative balance. Genius, hu?

[Ray]

Who came up with that procedure in the initial design of the system? I use the Octopus in HongKong all the time and have used similar cards in Singapore and Taipei, and I never had to press any buttons before tapping the card. Why does Canadian always have to overcomplicate things? As for people worrying about the card being used to identify whether you are at home, this is a legitimate worry but I think most people eventually would sacrifice a little bit of that privacy for the convenience. Several serious crime cases have been solved in HongKong actually as police track the Octopus card used by the criminals to escape from or travel to the crime scene. Many people in HongKong register their Octopus cards to personalize the card, so that they can earn points from transactions. And some personalized cards (no names printed on them, the person-card connection is stored in the database only) are even used as key to their own home, so potentially, all you need to take with you is the Octopus card when you go out, as it is used for all public transportation, convenience stores, grocery and many restaurants/fast food places in HongKong.

[Jose]

This is disappointing. Whenever some great new idea comes about or into effect here in Toronto (or maybe anywhere in Canada), it ends up being a disappointment, too many layers, lacking in sense and simply a waste. A waste of time and opportunity. Almost like having one final moment to use a tactic (ie. sports situation), only for it to be unsuccessful (due to stupidity) despite the given promise.

The transit people and groups need to be careful. This place isn't some small town where the people have only one mode and have never ever left the province or even the country. Many people here at home have been to different places and have travelled, such as in Europe and developed/innovative Asian countries, and THEY KNOW. They have seen what they have over there, the innovation, the laws and conduct there, the discipline, the common sense approach, the focus, and they have experienced it. Not just technologically/innovation (ie. subway system/transit, city planning), but also the processes and the way things are run (ie. maintenance inside their subway, processing a card, different forms of cards and pass deals, etc).

So, transit here, and other branches of society (ie. city planning, gov't, etc) should expect and be prepared to face the constant lamenting and criticism from people here because there is no way to hide the lack of innovation here, the nonsense/bureaucracy, and the slow progress here. Fields such as transit, gov't and city planning here are not only making life harder for everyone, but they end up making life harder for themselves!

[RichardB]

It would appear the Presto system is designed as a money grabber. Too many companies are taking the dishonest approach to business. Shameful.

[David B]

Geez, just don't set yourself up for a default ride. Tap on, tap off. Just like the Karate Kid - not rocket science here.

[tj]

I agree with most others here. Why does presto have to make it so complicated!!!?? Simply tap-in and tap-out. Done. No other special settings. If someone forgets, too bad. If you really want to make sure nobody forgets to tap in or out, create gates! This Presto project has been in the works for so long and I don't know why it's getting so complicated. It appears that they may have too many cooks in the kitchen while trying to please all requests. Keep it simple or nobody will use it! This should have been a 1-2 year project where all busses, streetcars, ttc and go stations have tap pads in place. Instead, 4 years and we have them in a small minority of stations. Can someone give a reasonable explanation why things are getting so complicated and taking so long?

[Chris McLeod]

A ticket collector set my card for a shorter ride.

I prestoed it at the machine, and "Hey Presto", nothing happened. I had to buy a paper ticket.

Then I went to use it for my normal preset ride, and was refused by Union Station ticket agent as it had $3 owing (against $10+ credit). Seems I took a virtual ride between my two homie stops and only paid the short ride fare. Provision of the paper ticket I'd bought bought me no sympathy - I had to pay that $3 shortfall for my virtual ride.

Haven't used it since, sadly.

[Jordan]

Agreed, there is no reason you need to set up a default ride. Tap the card when you get on the train, then tap the card when you get off. You get billed for the distance travelled. It's not complicated.

[Tim]

LOL it's funny how this sophisticated system cannot automatically calculate the fare depending on the distance traveled.

Please fire the programmers and take that money and just BUY whatever system London and Hong Kong are already using.

[BrianW]

I have a presto card for my daily commute, I think that it works really well. I always make the same trip so it is not a huge deal for me to 'tap' on. I also dont have to stand in a line every month to buy a pass from the station. On rare occasions when I take the TTC in Toronto (like last week in the heat and humidity), I get the $2.50 token rate without having to stockpile tokens. Saves me money. There are perks to the monthly GO pass (use for free on weekends, can get off and on wherever you want) but I never really took advantage of that anyway. If I am sick or on vacation, I dont pay for that day! I am a big fan. Now if only the TTC would institute a zone fare based system.....

[Deep Fry]

Every time we talk about our transit system here I feel so ashamed ... because this self-proclaimed "world-class city" has a transit system stuck in stone age. I'm not talking about just TTC here, GO and even Viva - all their ticket fare systems are inefficient, can be easily abused and are so far behind from the rest of the world. I think our city officials should travel to Asian or European countries and open their eyes to look at what those "developing countries" have achieved many many years ago, and with a much lower cost and much higher efficiency. Hopefully that will make them humble. A smart card like this is just dumb. Every time I returned back from Hong Kong and Japan it made me sad.

[Jeff Taylor]

The TTC used in a sentence with the words stone age ? Yup, the words Toronto Transit Commission and stone age go together like jam & peanut butter.

[Al]

This should be tap-in, tap-out. Once this simple setup is(/should be) implemented, get Tim Hortons, McDonalds, all grocery stores, Wal-Mart, ...etc to accept it as payment. The TTC should have did this as a private business so they can profit off every tap transaction and actually have money to improve service. Hong Kong has been doing this for YEARS.

[Jon]

Okay so I read their website, and unless they changed something recently it seems pretty clear to me.. The override button is ONLY for the GO, and it's only if you have a default trip set. If you have a default trip set, you scan it when you get on, and then you can just walk away when you're done and it charges you for that trip. If you go to any other station other than your default, you press the override button and scan your card. If you want to uncomplicate things, don't set a default trip, and just scan your card when getting on and getting off.

Also, for all the people who say " is better than Canada because " then I have to ask what the heck you are doing in our backwards country?

[No Longer Shocked]

I am impressed with the comments of worldly Torontonians. I've been laughing at "world-class" being used to describe Toronto for decades now, and this city has been falling further behind, not catching up.
Europe and Asia are far ahead of us. Bangkok is vastly superior at public transit and smart card payment systems. But, even Montreal is eons ahead, with a zone-based subway system and city-wide bicycle rentals that Toronto just couldn't get off the ground this year.
You know, we live in a technological age. Software and machines can be programmed and automated to do anything. Literally anything. Instead of being smart and implementing something state of the art, it seems Toronto overpaid for, and underachieved with its new fare card system. Presto! 4 years on and the money's gone and there's nothing useful to show for it.

[saculet]

"I think our city officials should travel to Asian or European countries and open their eyes to look at what those "developing countries" have achieved many many years ago, and with a much lower cost and much higher efficiency. Hopefully that will make them humble. A smart card like this is just dumb. Every time I returned back from Hong Kong and Japan it made me sad."

Yes, but they can't simply implement a system that works well somewhere else because someone well-connected stands to make BIG money off this Presto thing.

[Andrew]

It is not complicated and the over-ride option outside the default commute setting is clearly explained in the brochure. Don't fight progress when it makes commuting much more convenient.

[Liz]

It seems like a great idea, but some of the outlaying bus systems (Brampton Transit) offers discount rates for Go Train users by showing their pass. They have no way of knowing now, if your Presto card is valid.
Also, how does this effect our income tax credits for using transit? I was audited once and had to send copies of all of my monthly passes?