Beauty in the eye of the rider

 
The idea of elevated light rail has frequently been dismissed as a non-starter in Toronto. The fear is that it could create Gardiner Expressway-like scenarios around the city and interfere with above-ground utility lines.

But this photo of the Brentwood Station on Vancouver's Millennium line, sent by Metrolinx CEO Bruce McCuaig, proves it needn't be ugly and could in fact add a little wow to the landscape. Of course this picture is shot from above, not the view most people would enjoy. Other photos online, however, show that the station is still arresting from the rider's perspective.

Metrolinx and the TTC are analyzing the potential impacts of above-grade trains as a way to meet Mayor Rob Ford's goal of reserving road space for cars but expanding transit. Building above ground is less expensive than burying rail lines. With automated light rail such as that used in Vancouver it's also cheaper to operate because you don't have to pay drivers and computerized signalling means you can run more trains.

The technology being used in Vancouver is the next generation of Toronto's SRT, which theoretically can also operate unstaffed.

Comments

[David Chapman]

A win win. Now if only Ford would buy in.

[Rob]

The problem is not the cost of the subways, the problem is the total lack of infrastrucure. It's all well and good that vancouver has above ground trains and it's working for them. That doesn't mean that'll be the case in Toronto.

Did you know that Montreal has about 2/3 of our population and about 1.5 times more subway tracks laid? Why is this? Why is Toronto so behind?

The answer is that we constantly try to find ways around spending money when in reality, we should be demanding that we get the same level of service as other cities.

Toronto is the economic engine of Ontario. Why doesn't it make sense to keep us running as well as possible?

[David B]

Elevated light rail is a bad idea. Who wants dirty, noisy trains running above them. It would also become an eye-sore in a few years, just like the Gardiner Expressway. As far as replacing automobiles with public transit on our roads, I thought that was the whole idea. Welcome to Ford 'The Better Way???"

[andrewS]

You'll notice that the elevated tracks take up as much territory as they would were they run on the surface. An El would still require taking 2 car lanes for transit, which is exactly what Ford is against. May as well run it on the surface and save the money to build the structures.

The Skytrain is more than theoretically unstaffed. It IS unstaffed, and has been since it opened in the mid 1980s. There is not even a farebooth setup like Toronto

[Karen]

'Dirty, noisy trains' -- that's the thing - trains don't HAVE to be dirty and noisy. Developing countries are putting us to shame with their modern, light CLEAN above-ground LRT. The reason we equate trains with pollution and noise is because North America is so behind.

[kyliep]

Fine if you can dedicate a line alongside a highway but something like this going down Eglinton? I don't think so. The whole point of the LRT along that stretch is that it's underground for the most part and above ground in parts of the inner suburbs. Pretty night picture aside, this thing is undoubtedly an eyesore during the day, as is any elevated monorail system in any city in the world.

[clearsky]

Driverless trains ? TTC Union will not like it.

[Bob]

Hopefully Toronto has learned from the short-sightedness of City Council and the various planning entities since the early 1970s. Light rail will not work in Toronto unless it is completely covered to protect it from ice and snow during the winter months.

Toronto was ahead of the curve in the 1950s with the introduction of the Yonge/University subway and kept up progress in the 1960s with the Bloor/Danforth subway. The early 1970s saw the minor expansions of these 2 lines and then the adoption of the LRT in Scarborough. Nothing with vision has been introduced in the last 40 years.

[Steve MacLeod]

An idea for a new Mayor or an idea to get the left wing and right wing working together. In Toronto you say a solution we all can love. Why not a solution?

Vancouver has the sky train and it is not an eyesore. The technology they use was developed in Ontario by a Conservative government. The only thing I would like for Toronto is to get busy and get moving. A world class city needs to have world class actions.

[Marco]

The German town of Wuppertal has an extended above ground system up-and-running for more than a hundred years because they don't have enough space in their narrow valley. These days most airports use some kind of fancy monorail to connect their terminals. I could imagine that similar systems could work in parts of Toronto as well where the existing streets are wide enough (Eglinton? Sheppard?) and no bridges interfer.

[real conservative]

Once again: this is who should build light rail now and in the coming decades; York Region (Brampton, Richmond Hill, Markam), Pickering/Oshawa, and Mississauga. The lines they build should expect to connect to the TTC in some fashion. Ford is correct, build subways in Toronto, run 'electric buses' and larger articulated buses if need be. Also existing rail lines could be used more too, within the city itself for GO and other services.

[Tony]

"Did you know that Montreal has about 2/3 of our population and about 1.5 times more subway tracks laid? Why is this? Why is Toronto so behind?"

Gas taxes... Filling up your car in Montreal is more expensive, because Montreal secures a % of gas taxes for transit.

Are you willing to pay more for gas so that you can move around your city better (since transit will be better)? I would, but many people wouldn't.

[Mooky]

The company that made the Vancouver Skytrain is located in Toronto. They also put in the SRT, so they are very well known to the TTC. Adam Giambroni & Miller clearly had a hate on with the car in Toronto, if they would rather build a transit city that cost more relying on light rail that also ate up Toronto streets. And by the way the money spent on the Toronto company would have provided high paying jobs in Toronto. Why is Toronto so far behind Montreal in laid track in the last 20 years? I can only suggest incompetence based on politics and the left's absurd hate on against the car. They would rather do nothing and hate the car, then do an affordable Toronto solution to increase transit. Good on ya Miller and Giambroni, and it only took some visionary leadership from a non-Harvard graduate and practical man in Rob Ford.

[Chrisgo]

It's a fantastic idea. Eyesore? Lets be honest here folks, we're talking about Toronto. Not exactly the architectural showpiece of the world. I don't think it will interrupt the beauty (?) of what is Eglinton one bit.
And to you naysayers, tell me you wouldn't take a ride on it once it was up. It's an instant tourist attraction. Dang, if people pay to ride around on rickety double decker tour buses, they may just flock to an elevated train that gives them a one of kind elevated tour of the city.

[sean]

this is a good idea. i lived right beside a skytrain station in Vancouver and had zero noise issues...the hum was actually rather pleasant.

[John Black]

I seem to remember that we cancelled an Eglinton Subway some years back when promised funds dried up (Lets Move)and Mel Lastman seemed to win out for the only funds remaining. In order for Transit to be a priority for everyone is to take it out of the Mayors office and have committed funding from the Provincial/Federal level otherwise our next Mayor will scrap what we are now proposing and will spend another $500 million to get a big fat ZERO.

[Horstradamus]

The problem with people like Ford, is that he doesn't care about good ideas. He only cares about his own ideas; good or bad. The man's brain runs on a track with no switches and is, coincidentially also "unstaffed".

[DoubleT]

Transit planning in Toronto makes my blood boil! I agree with Ford that Transit City is a stupid plan. But what I don't agree with is not investing in an alternative that efficiently moves people around WITHIN the city. People who live in the 905 choose to do so because it is cheaper, more green space, etc. So why should my money be spent to make their commute more pleasant, when I can't even get around the city where I live, work and pay taxes? I live at King/Sherbourne and it takes me well over an hour to cross town on the overcrowded, most unpleasant streetcar. We need to start phasing out these painfully slow relics and make it a priority to build an East-West line running under King Street.

[PR]

Vancouver has a much milder climate than Toronto.

How many times, when there's a big snowfall or extreme cold snap, has the SRT been shut down? Even the above-ground sections of the Subway have sometimes been shut down by extreme cold or a heavy snowfall that freezes the switches and signals.

It simply does not make sense, either aesthetically or practically, to build elevated LRTs in Toronto.

[Mechanical Engineer]

Little do most people know that the Scarborough RT actually drives itself, and has been capable of doing so since the '80s! But the union didn't like that idea, so it keeps attendants in the train cabs to open and close the doors. Good luck convincing the union to let us run an entire system of automated trains in Toronto!

[Toni]

All levels of governments should stop being short-sighted. An extensive subway network should be built around and beyond the GTA. Subways should not need to be "justified" by demand, because developers will start building houses and condos where there are subway stations. Also, TTC should develop condos and shopping malls right above the stations, this is how Hong Kong's MTR make so much money. It is annoying to see how far behind is Toronto in transit infrastructure. People will start using transit when you have the network in place, if you wait until the "justified" level of demand to build it - it will never happen!

[Jim]

NO! Enough of Toronto The Cheap trying to skirt around what is needed in this city, SUBWAYS, underground, not eyesores, not monorails, not more heaping noise across the city streets. If Torontonians want a downtown core that slowly starts to rot a'la Rust Belt cities in the U.S., yes this would be a good idea. However we have a viable livable downtown core with great livable neighborhoods, and this would only drive more people out into the 'burbs causing a slow decay (and more traffic getting in and out). Get the subway tracks that we're desperately behind in and enough of this crap-in-the-sky brainstorming ('pie' doesn't do this idea justice).

[Toni]

Canadians helped to develop the Octopus card (electronic fare card) in Hong Kong more than 10 years ago, but we are still not using it yet! Canada's Bombardier build high speed trains for other countries but Canada has no high speed rail network like the Shinkansen in Japan. Shouldn't we be ashamed?! Time to do something!

[gloria]

I took the Scarborough RT from Kennedy to McCowan for 5 years, and quit my job, one reason being I was late for each appointment after work in the old CIty of Toronto because of problems with the RT always breaking down. If there was not problems with the RT, there were problems at Kennedy station.

Time for some good technology, eh?

[Norman]

the problem with Toronto is that our major arteries are too wide apart, look at Steeles, Finch, Eglington, lawrance, they are average of two kilometer from each other, I had friends from Europe visiting who are agast at the size of our sprawling superblocks and the distance between bus lines, we should subdivide the street grid, then there will be more room for both cars and public transits, and people will be closer to the amenities eliminating the need for transportation, untill that is done, we will keep fighting over wether we have to give priority to public or private transit