Thursday Mail Bag
NAPLES, Fla.
With the GM meetings over, and with very little activity, its interesting to see the impatience start to build.
Of the media, that is.
Hey, we’re all guilty. Those of us in print, TV and radio want action, want stories and want controversy. In the case of the NHL, we want trades, particularly biggees. If they don’t emerge, we’ll manufacture ones supposedly close to being done as a means of creating a sense of impending drama.
That’s just what we do.
A fascinating offshoot of this is the suggestion in several media locales – my buddy Scott Burnside at ESPN.com got the ball rolling - that Leaf captain Mats Sundin should be punished and banished if he won’t waive his no-trade clause and allow Cliff Fletcher to send him somewhere for players and prospects.
If Mats won’t do it, the reasoning goes, tell him to get lost, that he’ll never be a Leaf again after this season, his No. 13 will be burned in effigy by the MLSE board at centre ice and even worse, they’ll hold another gala night in celebration of Tie Domi’s 1000th game.
I mean, seriously, do you think the Leafs are really going to scare Sundin into doing something he doesn’t want to do? He’s 37 years old with more than $80 million of NHL earnings, and people really think he’s going to curl up in a ball and cry if Fletcher yells at him?
C’mon, wake up. You can’t force Sundin to do anything. Moreover, a franchise with a disgraceful history of treating its captains should never, ever even consider doing anything less than first class with a player who has always been first class with them.
One further thought; the reason why players want to stay in Toronto even in losing times isn’t necessarily because there’s a “country club atmosphere,” although top players are never benched or sent to the press box in this city. It’s because the money’s great, the city’s beautiful and even when they stink, they’re still treated as wonderful heroes by the vast majority of people and given almost total privacy in their personal lives. Recall Chad Kilger recently leaving the team for undisclosed reasons, and then returning, with no one bothering him as to the reason why he left in the first place. It’s a comfortable place for players and their families where the pressure of media scrutiny isn’t nearly what its made out to be.
Now on to this week’s mail bag:
Q: Under the new CBA, is it still possible to trade players for future considerations? If so, what sort of conditions are attached? Is there a deadline for naming the future considerations? I am wondering about the potential for a situation at the deadline whereby, for example, Atlanta is ready to move Hossa to (for the sake of argument) Detroit but the teams can't agree on who goes the other way. Could Hossa be sent to Detroit for future considerations to be named later in the season? Would it have to wait for the off-season?
It might set up an interesting scenario for the likes of Tampa Bay, actually. Nobody is going to want Richards' albatross of a contract but could they theoretically trade him for a draft pick and future considerations, then make the considerations Richards himself in the off-season? It would be the ultimate rental.
Joe B., Ottawa
A: Joe, deals involving future considerations are still allowed. But those “futures” have to be detailed to the league, and the league would never allow a player, in essence, to be traded for himself. Philly and Winnipeg had a couple of these types of deals a few years ago, and they’re not allowed anymore.
Q: The draft selection this summer is projecting Stamkos as the first overall pick, followed by defenceman Drew Doughty and Alex Pietrangelo as the second- and third-rated picks, respectively. Every single reporter seems to insist that Stamkos would undoubtably go first overall if Toronto chose first. Considering how hard it is to get an elite defenceman in this league, wouldn't it be better to go after either Doughty or Pietrangelo or is Stamkos just that good and that much better?
Dave S., Toronto
A: If you’re the Leafs, you’re not even thinking about position. You’re going after the most talented player, whether it’s a centre, winger, defenceman or goaltender. To my understanding, Stamkos is the cream of the crop, and it would be shocking if the Leafs ended up with the first pick and didn’t take him.
Q: Damien, I keep hearing people say that Mats would have to have a pretty good reason for not wanting to waive his no trade. Yet no one has brought up the possibility that he could be leaning towards retiring at the end of this season. Do you think this is a posibility?
Stephen Woods, Roblin, Ont.
A: A possibility, yes. Likely? No. He’s not Scott Niedermayer, with a variety of other interests he wants to pursue or young children he wants to spend time with, and he’s not Peter Forsberg, banged up and battered after years of NHL competition. In fact, Sundin said earlier this season he’s enjoying the game more than he did when he was younger. At this point, there’s no signs he’d want to quit after this season.
Q: Greetings Damien!
I'm a Leaf fan living in Scotland speaking on behalf of a small but loyal following (we stay up till 3 am to watch Hockey Night most Saturdays) and I can report that even over here we are subject to relentless Leaf bashing that fans of competitors undertake on a regular basis - sadly it is totally justified - and we're sick of it!
Our question is in regards to the next GM of the Leafs. If this organization is serious about winning then in my mind the person to take the wheel should come from the Detroit Red Wings. This club has been the class of the NHL for 15 years and has the rings to prove it. We'd prefer Kenny Holland or at the very least a managment duo of Scotty Bowman serving as Pres. with Jim Nill as the GM and whatever support staff they deem suitable.
If the Leafs are really serious, I can't see any reason such a regime can't be installed. Mr. Holland seems content in Motown but money talks; Mike Ilitch seems reluctant to let staff go but compensation can be arranged (again money talks).
Stuart MacLynam, Edinburgh, Scotland
A: Holland is right at the top of the Leaf list. The one thing I’d say is that working as a hockey executive in Detroit is very different than doing the same job in Toronto, and you’d want to feel comfortable that a person coming from Detroit would be able to do the same things in a very different market.
Q: Hey, Damien. Love your blog.
I'm not sure if you (or anybody else, for that matter) have already addressed this, but what is the situation with Mats Sundin's supposed "torn labrum"? To be in the top 20 in scoring on a team with a dreadful supporting cast is not too shabby for a player with a "career threatening" injury.
Any info on his situation and might it affect his potential trade/re-signing value?
Joe Berardi, Toronto
A: I think I’m reading some sarcasm here. Of course, the off-season story that Sundin’s hip was in such bad shape that his career was in jeopardy was simply baloney. I’m sure, like many of us, he wakes up and feels a little sore getting out of bed, but c’mon, he hasn’t even missed a game this season. So I’m guessing, Joe, that you’re wondering why that story ever got printed in the first place? Me too.
Q: I've been wondering why the Leafs haven't sent Raycroft down to the minors yet. They would have to put him on waivers, I realize, and possibly someone would pick him up (doubtful as that seems). Even if he was taken on re-entry waivers, that would suffice - saves the Leafs $1-million when the salary is split next year. Or are they just waiting to buy him out once the season's over?
Or could it be they're just waiting for the trade deadline to waive him? Giving Clemmensen or Pogge some time in the NHL so as not to put the tender groin of Toskala at risk would be ideal.
I say put him out of his misery, send him to the Marlies and see if he can get his confidence back. Since the Marlies are winning with regularity, it might be the perfect situation for him.
Matt Blackett, Toronto
A: He’s hardly in “misery” these days with the Leafs – they never play him. I’ve struggled to understand the way in which the Leafs have decided to use Raycroft since last season, and I think he should’ve been sent to the minors earlier this season. I suppose they’d tell you they don’t want to lose him on waivers. I’m not sure that’s a large risk. But playing the heck out of Vesa Toskala sure doesn’t make much sense.
Q: Hi Damien,
Love your work, hate the Leafs, love the Habs. I have question for you about rebuilding.
In today's cap era, is it worth trading all your talent away and building through the draft? People seem to think with the Leafs so bad they will automatically get the 1st pick, but that might not be the case. Even if they do, and they get top picks couple years, how will they be able to keep all these guys and build a team with depth (i.e. Pens). Then when you are good, you need to sign guys, which often means over paying for what you get.
So maybe blowing the whole thing up isn't such a good idea after all. Just wondering.
Graham Jack, Ottawa
A: Well, Graham, we’ve been been debating that subject for weeks in this mail bag. All I can say is that there are several ways to go about rebuilding, and that what people most want to see is a plan. That said, it’s undeniable that you need young, cheap players in the salary cap era to thrive, and the best place to get those players is through the entry draft.
Click here to send Damien a question and he'll answer a selection in his mail bag every Thursday in this space.
Damien, you are right on the money (no pun intended...) about playing in Toronto. What a joke when people talk about media scrutiny about players. It is there but totally kid gloves and fawning. Now Montreal, that is scrutiny. One language there would be more severe, but double it, and add in the one upmanship, now that is severe. Can you imagine a photographer from Toronto all but breaking into Mat Sundin's hospital room after almost losing an eye, to snap a photo for a tabloid, a la the treatment Saku Koivu was given? Nope, in Toronto the fourth line winger is treated like he is too valuable to trade. Been like this forever. Look at the players at the Garden's closing, who are these guys? Toronto is NOT the greatest hockey city in the world, the most hockey player worship YES.
Posted by: steve | February 21, 2008 at 10:28 AM
The notion of Sundin being repremanded for not being traded is proposterous. And the reference to Domi is laughable. Sure Domi is a fan favourite but remember, if Domi had not been so stupid with an illadvised elbow to Neidemeyer a few years back our last Cup might not be 40 years ago. And why is everyone trying to trade Kaberle. He is nothing but a all star defenceman. It seems everyone wants him so why not us. Toskala, Kaberle, Sundin and Andropov should be untouchable. And I think Stajan will be captain one day. If no moves are made it won't break my heart. Although it would be nice if we could ship McCabe and something to New York for maybe Satan. Anyway we'll see what happens and as always Go Leafs Go.
Posted by: kenny d | February 21, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Maybe you can make the argument that the Leafs should be loyal to Sundin, even if it means that this summer, he probably will be off to another team and the Leafs get nothing in return for its loyalty. But Kaberle? McCabe? Tucker? Kubina? I am with Scott Burnside that the Leafs should jettison them for whatever we can get and if they don't want to play ball, strip them of their "A"s and nail their butts to the bench or press box. All season they had a chance to prove that they were part of the solution to the mess that is the Toronto Maple Leafs, and they didn't. Now, with a tinge of petulance, they want to stay. Why? Because of their undying commitment to the team? Well, where was that commitment in October and November, when it mattered? My loyalty starts and stops with the Leafs, period. Not the McCabes. Not the Tuckers. Be done with them. The sooner, the better.
Posted by: John Hunt | February 21, 2008 at 11:32 AM
A comment for everyone. Hey Steve, I didn't know that you were a former NHL player and that you actually KNOW what media scrutiny is. Perhaps you'd like to share your experiences. Kenny D, you're right...GO LEAFS GO. It ain't over until it's over. Instead of predicting the outcomes let's just see what happens. And John Hunt, let's not forget that it takes two to tango. Which means that Leaf management had to agree to these no trade clauses, and has no right to go back to these players with its tail between its legs to ask if they will waive the right to something that was signed to. And in the case of Sundin, Fletcher has no right to ask him to waive it and then use him as a rent-a-player for next season. Ya, that's a professional way to treat arguably the best player ever for the Blue and White.
Posted by: Pete Nardi | February 21, 2008 at 01:12 PM
Damien, what could Fletcher do, before the trade dead line if players are not willing to waver their NTC? Does trading young and cheap players likes of Steen, Stajan & Co. make sence?
What more can be done?
Posted by: Soctt Summers | February 21, 2008 at 05:20 PM
I have always been a fan of, and respected, Mats Sundin, both as a superstar athlete and for how he conducts himself in the glare of the public eye. But, here is a man with no children, no wife and some $80 million dollars in lifetime earnings--most of it in Toronto, supplied from the wallets of the looooong suffering faithful. So if Fletcher has a good offer and Sundin will not waive his no trade, then I will be among the MANY Leafs fans who will be extremely upset with him, and I will feel compelled to be very vocal in my criticism. Take a trade Mats. Not doing so would backfire on you big time, and that would be sad and unpleasant for all of us!
Posted by: Lamont MacAndrewes | February 22, 2008 at 08:32 AM
Kaberle was an all-star this year because the policy is someone from every team. Arguably, the same could be said of last year. He certainly deserved it in his first go-round (01/02) but really he over-achieved for a two or three year period ... pretty much when he was up and coming and flying under everyone's radar. A lot of players are like this: they break out and then are never as good as they were. Kaberle is certainly a 3/4 d-man on any team in the league, but unlikely a 1/2 on most. An all-star? I think not.
Posted by: Shaun | February 22, 2008 at 09:42 AM
What is this "play ball" nonsense? If the Leafs and the player negotiated a no trade clause, then the player is completely within his rights to adhere to that clause. It's not disrespectful in the least, and here's why: unless JFJ was just running around giving away the farm (which is possible given that it's the Leafs) the no trade clause would have emerged from a process of negotiation. It's likely, then, that the player gave up something (e.g. some salary) in order to get the clause. And now you want the player to give up the clause too? That's simply ridiculous. If the Leafs wanted flexibility, they shouldn't have negotiated the clauses. End of story.
Posted by: Jonathan | February 22, 2008 at 10:18 AM
I could never understand the rasoning to trade Sundin especially if he is not prepared to sign an extension. I think after some of the big mistakes last season amongst some clubs that the value of a rental player is not what it once was. Mats has been a terrific captain for the Leafs and is deserving of the high respect of the Toronto brass.
Kaberle is the perfect guy to reatin....his contarct is modest as compeared to his likley true market value and he is still young. I also think Kabina, though currently over paid, he has really been playing a lot of minutes.
The guy I think the Leafs should trade if they can now is MCCabe...he is 34 and has a very hefty contract. A perfect place for him would be the Red Wings who are hurting now fora top 4 Defenceman.
Sure hope the Leafs can dump Raycroft and Wellwood....
Posted by: smokey | February 22, 2008 at 11:00 AM
Hello Damien,
What with the Leaf's season just about written off (although don't tell the players that), we've seen many teams in this position before moving players around to determine what could turn out to be a good fit and positive changes from within. Case in point, the Leafs have been bringing in Stralman and sitting White on a rotating schedule. I was wondering what you think of putting White on the wing as an experiment. The kid's got good speed and puck handling skills and not too bad a shot either?
Posted by: Bernie D | February 22, 2008 at 11:16 AM
Yes, I agree with one of the comment about if Sundin is loyal to the Leafs. If he is really loyal to them then he should have allow a trade to process so the team can get some good asset. You have to know he can have a chance to win a cup and then come back next year with an improved team with his trade. And I can't understand people say he is untouchable. Please think logically!!! That's common sense. We're going no where this year and he is the one who can give us some good young players in return. Just wake up man people. I'm use to be a fan of Sundin but if he doesn't accept a trade then I don't want to see him to be a leafs again. If he still being a leafs after the deadline then that proves that he is selfish, not loyal to the leafs(who paid him lots of money) and doesn't do what it takes(allow a trade to go to a contender) to win. I hope people can see this man.
Posted by: Michael | February 22, 2008 at 11:52 AM
Amen to that Damien! Sundin is a class act all the way. He has given his all, and then some, to this pitiful organization and deserves nothing but our upmost respect.
Although waiving his no-trade clause and allowing himself to be traded for draft picks and prospects would, no doubt, help the team immensely in the future, I do not begrudge him one bit for wanting to stay.
Now, Mr. Fletcher, improvise!
Posted by: mimo70 | February 22, 2008 at 12:13 PM
Hi Damian,
Do you think the Leaf's will stop offering no-trade terms to potential free agents in the near future, given their current situation, or do you think this approach would severely hamstring them in their quest for free agents in the future?
Steve Stolte, Burlington
Posted by: Steve Stolte | February 22, 2008 at 02:33 PM
The thing that often gets lost in all of this is that it has nothing to do with the "McCabes" and "Tuckers" etc. They were given the no trade clauses by the GM's. Why is everyone so shocked when they actually want to exercise them? This is why they asked for them. To think that it is their responsibility to be "good guys" and waive them is laughable. The ownership needs to go through hard times for all the stupid mistakes they have made. If the Leafs are stuck with unmovable salaries and players that are unattractive due to these salaries they cannot look to the players to clean up their own mess.
Posted by: Glenn | February 22, 2008 at 03:29 PM
Come on man. I just don't understand why people say Fletcher has no rights to ask Sundin to waive his no-trade clause. This is so common these days. The purpose for a no-trade clause is that players want to have an option to stay for the team they signed and also allow them to choose the team they like if a trade is presented.
If this is his last year then I respect him and I like him to retire as a leaf but if he will play next season then why not just go to a contender, bring value back to this team when he can sign again next season.
I just think people think the GM has no rights to ask for a trade and Sundin is untouchable are stupid and don't have common sense. Sorry, to say this here but I really hope u can post this here. This is a business that they're also dealing with.
Posted by: Michael | February 22, 2008 at 03:59 PM
What exactly is a "no trade" clause? It is a clause that says simply the team cannot trade the player without the player's consent. It's a question of control. It does not mean that the player cannot be moved, period. I agree that the team should adhere to its contracts. No problem there. But should no trade clauses hold up the team from moving forward in a different direction? My point is simply that the team is moving, and should move, forward in a different direction from the time when those contracts were signed, in large part because Tucker, McCabe and friends did not get it done when they had a chance. By terms of a mutually agreed contract, the team has left itself with one card to play - humiliation - which also is in its right, though unsavory. And with respect to those four players, I am arguing that the team should play it.
Posted by: John Hunt | February 23, 2008 at 08:19 AM
Hi Damien
Love the blog.
Is it possible that the leafs with no trade clauses could renegotiate their contracts for a lesser amount. If i were leaf management i would tell certain players with these clauses to lower the wages and we'll keep you in toronto, that way we can make room under the cap. The alternative would be to bench them if they dont agree.
I know its highly unlikely but im wondering if its even possible under the CBA and im also wondering if its ever happened in the past?
Thanks
Gavin
Posted by: Gavin | February 25, 2008 at 12:44 PM
I blame the media for manufacturing this Sundin fiasco, and the "hockey experts" for perpetuating it. To suggest that Mats is not being fair to the team by not waiving his NTC is just as asinine as it is for someone to suggest that he's not interested in waiving because he's a loser. That's what loyal in TO brings a player who year after year has been forced to play without adequate supporting cast, and yet does show with all the class in the world.
The truth of the matter is that the Leaf's do not deserve as classy an individual as Sundin. The media generated notion that if he so loves the team and want to do what's best for the team, then he should waive is ridiculous. What guarantees are there that anything coming back to us will do any better? I suggest that first place to look is at the scouting. The coaching hasn't been up to snuff either, but I don't hear anyone talking about Paul Maurice.
But this is Toronto, the city in which we eat our own and would not recognize class if it slapped us in the face. I for one look forward to seeing Mats play out his year in the blue and white. Whether or not he rides off into the sunset after that, he has served us well.
Posted by: Colin W | February 25, 2008 at 01:10 PM
Just venting today, Another poor season etc etc. but the thing that is bothering me the most is, after ruining my hockey year, again,the Leafs have the nerve to to play like their life depended on a win. D'arcy and mats celebrating a goal like they had just won the cup. The team excitement and effort just upsets me to no end. Don't they know that this effort only points out how badly they treated their hockey faithful this year. They are showing that they can play but didn't for us. grrrrrrrr!
Posted by: Ted Willing | March 01, 2008 at 03:29 PM