Different Strokes

Around this time of year in the NHL season, its always helpful when somebody sets the market.

That, to some degree, is what happened yesterday when Atlanta peddled 39-year-old defenceman Mathieu Schneider as a rental player to Montreal for a package of draft picks. The Thrashers get a second round pick in 2009, actually Anaheim's pick, and a third rounder in 2010.

The Habs get Schneider and a conditional pick that could be as high as a third rounder and as low as a fifth rounder in June, depending how the Canadiens fare in the post-season.

So a mid-range second rounder - the Ducks are 18th overall as of today - for a puck-moving rearguard with a few miles left on his chassis who is slated to be an unrestricted free agent this summer.

For a team like the Leafs that has a couple of defencemen to move, this is useful information. For GM Brian Burke, of course, there's a certain six-degrees-of-separation feel to the scenario, for it was he who traded Schneider from the Ducks to the Thrashers in the first place to clear up the cap space required to re-sign Teemu Selanne.

The Leafs, it's needless to say, have only one untouchable on their roster, and that's Luke Schenn. Otherwise, any player could be had, with different trade values assigned to them all.

The four players believed to be most in play, however, are rearguards Pavel Kubina and Tomas Kaberle, and forwards Nik Antropov and Dominic Moore. Kubina and Kaberle both have no-trade clauses and time on their contracts beyond this season, while Antropov and Moore are both pending unrestricted free agents.

Interestingly, the approach on all four is likely to be very different.

For Kaberle, don't listen too closely to what Burke is saying publicly. He's trying to set a market. But the approach the Leafs will take is that they will decide what they must get in a deal - let's say a first round pick and a top prospect - and then only listen to offers that hit that standard

Otherwise, Kaberle stays, at least until next February when his value might be even higher.

With Kubina, you get the best deal you can knowing you can always trade him in the summer when his no-trade evaporates. San Jose wanted him last winter and his value hasn't dropped, but if Burke has to wait until the draft to move the big blueliner, he'll wait.

With Antropov, the Leafs will take the best offer. Antropov's going, and the value on his services will be set by the number of teams Burke can get interested in the tall Kazakh.

Finally, Moore is the trickiest scenario of all. Teams are going to want him, and he's having a very strong season.

But do the Leafs? They plucked him off the waiver wire last winter, and if they could get a second rounder or the kind of young player with size and toughness that Burke wants, chances are they make the move.

What's a bit unclear is whether the Leafs intend on signing him if he isn't moved before the deadline.

But the approach on all four players - Kaberle, Kubina, Antropov and Moore - is very different.

You have to believe that at the very least, two of the four are headed out of town.

Comments

[Tree Q]

Damien - or anyone else on this blog - can you explain why they are so intent on getting rid of Moore? I just don't understand - he always plays hard, is very, very cheap (making under $1M I believe), gives the team a good leader for the younger players, plays a well-rounded game ... I know he's not a superstar by any stretch, but the value the team gets for his contract (not to mention the fact that he's the ideal veteran precense for a rebuilding team) makes their desire to dump him strange.

Is it possible there is some ill-will from Burke toward Moore? Remember that Moore is Steve Moores' brother and Burke was the GM when the whole incident went down. Given Burke's unwavering support of Bertuzzi since that incident, and everything that has transpired with the lawsuit, I can't help but feel Burke is vindictive enough to dump Moore for all the wrong reasons ... Burke has proven to be a master at holding imaginary grudges (i.e. Lowe) and supporting 'his' people.

[Brad Mitchell]

Obviously no one will admit to it, but the main reason Moore will be traded is because of the Bertuzzi incident and the subsequent lawsuit. The timing is perfect too, because Moore is playing better than he ever has, and probably ever will. That's why you trade him now... "buy low, sell high" as they say. Cya Dominic. And bye bye Jason Blake's sudden scoring touch (largely attributable to the chemistry he had with Dom.)

[darren]

No way is Jason Blake and that unattractive contract will be moved. There's no team who would take that on. Get real.

[IdOp]

I don't see why Kaberle, if not traded by March 4, couldn't be moved until next February. During the summer 29 teams can bid for him, rather than 10 now, so his market value might arguably be higher.

Sticking with the defence, I think Finger and Van Ryn should also be traded (the latter once he's demonstrated a return to health and form). Along with Kubina, Kaberle and Frogren, the Leafs have 5 d-men who will be pretty much past it by the time they return to competitiveness -- far too many to keep. I would keep Frogren (similar to Finger but cheaper and better defensively) and perhaps even Kubina. The top 6 would then include White, Schenn, Stralman (should be an improvement over Kaberle soon) and Sifers or an acquired prospect. Kronwall should have filled this spot before Burke gave him away; possibly try to re-sign him in the summer?

Up front, I'd trade Mayers and Stajan, who might have some value with stats heading for a career high, but who continues to fight the puck horribly the vast majority of the time. I'd keep Poni but trade Antropov if a very solid deal is there, though cleary it would seem he'll be gone given the statements management has made. This would open up room for Williams (dumb to have risked losing him) and Tlusty, both of whom need to play in the NHL now, hopefully benefitting from the coaching. That is supposed to be the whole idea isn't it?

In goal, I'd keep Toskala, but try to acquire someone to both push him and play 30 to 40 games. Pogge is not ready for that.

[D]

Trading Moore, a waiver wire pickup, for a younger guy or a draft pick while he's most marketable is what smart GMs do. Isn't this what Leaf fans wanted: someone to make tough choices?

[Dave Kearney]

Trade high. Dominic Moore is peaking right now. We're rebuilding - it's the perfect time to trade him.

[Dennis]

The leafs could move Moore, get a draft pick, then resign him in the offeseason thats not out of the question.

[Brad Mitchell]

Who said Blake was getting traded ?!

[Arron]

I would hate to see Moore leave Toronto. There doesn't seem to be much players left who are passionate as being a Leaf as Moore, all the others seem more content in it. He's one of those rare players that is the "heart on the sleeve" type of guy. He's your role player but not your 1st line sniper, but he doesn't have to be to help the team. It would be ridiculous if Burke got rid of him because of the Bertuzzi-Moore situation.

[Mark G]

I would add ponikarovsky, Mayers and possibly Stajan to that list as well. Toskala would be traded in a second but I can't think of a single team that would offer up a bag of pucks for him.

[Liam Ryan]

Damien, I would really be interested to know if you feel the same way that many of us obviously do - that Burke will get rid of Dominic Moore merely to free himself of the unpleasant encumbrance that the black mark of brother Steve Moore's "incident" and impending lawsuit has stained him with.
Bad odour here. Burke has carte blanche with his contract in Toronto and regardless of his comments about how he would like to re-sign Moore, he brought in Brad May, just like LeCroix did in Denver. The wagons continue to circle and any Moore is persona non gratis by association. I'm not buying into his b.s.

[nugentmania]

The Jeff Carter deal they had on the table last year is often regurgitated by Leafs fans as what should have been. The problem? That was just a dumb deal by another GM, made worse by the rumoured 1st round pick that was also included. No one should count on those offers this year.

The Leafs have some cap space, more once the deadline passes and they make a few deals. Since MLSE has deep pockets, they should literally buy an extra 1st rounder from some team with cap problems. Take an albatross contract from someone and their 1st rounder(s) for something negligible on the Leafs roster. The only caveat being that the albatross contract can't go past next season, maybe two.....

[DamienCox]

Damien here. . .couple of responses to a couple of today's comments. . .in terms of Dominic Moore, I think its a real reach to imagine that Brian Burke is out to dump him because he's the brother of someone who is suing Todd Bertuzzi and the Vancouver Canucks, a case that involves Burke. What would getting rid of Moore accomplish? The suit would still go on. Moreover, Burke's in a desperate situation right now in terms of talent with the Leafs, and you would really have to imagine the worst of him to think his vindictiveness would stretch that far. Personally, I think Burke would sign Steve Moore if he thought he could help the Leafs win.
Re Jason Blake, the comment that no team would possibly be interested in that contract is a little off base. Blake's cap number is $4 million, not way out of whack for a player who will end up with between 25 and 30 goals this season. He makes $4.5 million next year, but then it falls to $3 million in the final two years of the deal. It's no cheapo deal, but its not exactly Wade Redden's bank robbery of the Rangers, either.

[Gman]

Don't get rid of Moore!

He leads the team in assists. He's +4.

He may not be the go-to guy. But he's the guy the go-to guy goes to - if they ever get a go-to guy.

Kaberle they gotta keep to mentor Schenn. No other reason.

Kubina and Nik, they gotta go.

[steve conti]

The Leafs have limited talent in the organization and Burke is just trying to maximize a break out year from Dominick Moore. If he can land a prospect/or roster player for him then he should consider using this chip which he probably did not have in his pocket when the season began. The other thing we don't know is what Moore/agent will be asking for salary net year. That may be another issue and a reason the Leafs may consider moving him.

[carlos]

Leaf fans make me laugh. We want the Leafs to compete in the league which they haven't for the last 5 years but then they complain when it's rumoured they are trading 3rd and 4th line players. Yes Moore has been a pleasent surprise but that's when you trade him. You got him for nothing and if you get offered a 2nd round pick you would be stupid not to take it. We have no prospects in the organization and by the time this team is ready to compete in 4 or 5 years these players that you're crying about won't even be in the league.

[Chris]

I'm just going to touch on the players that have come up in the news, friends, etc., in terms of possible trade bait.

10. Stempniak: he's a good top-six player that has been forced to adjusted to a new team and locker room culture. It goes without saying that he looks to be a step behind his line-mates because they have already had the opportunity, training and workout to be "conditioned" to play in Ron Wilson's heavy forechecking system - it's go go go all the time.

If I were the GM, I'd hold on to Stempniak for the following reasons:
a) He's young and experienced enough to improve on his very average production.
b) He has an expiring contract next year and would look more attractive to another team if he's producing. The Leafs won't be making the playoffs for awhile. We could command anything between a 1st to a 3rd and mid-level prospect depending on how 2009-10 unfold.
c) He helps keeps the Leafs above the cap floor next year (until the trade deadline).

9. Stralman and Tlusty: Both are too young and have way too much potential to be peddled away by Burke for another prospect. They won't get the same value that the fans and management believe they are worth, so there's no sense in trading him. Both need another year (or two) to flourish and have shown some signs of breaking out with the Marlies. They need to dominate the "A" before making a permanent jump to the Leafs.

8. Blake has been playing unbelievably well. I want to reiterate that Blake doesn't and has never produced for a contending team. Ever. He produces when there's no pressure to win - it's a testament to the cost and length of his contract that he managed to get from JFJ at gunpoint. That being said, we could very well possibly fleece another team by trading Blake. I'm all for it. This is a time when GMs become desperate.

7. Moore: If Burke trades Moore, I will punch a wall, kick a dog and steal candy from a baby. If he asks for 2.5-3M, give it to him! He's the perfect 2nd/3rd line player that can play in any situation - very similar to Kesler's value to Vancouver. Keep the guy, unless someone offers a 1st round pick. Then I'll grudgingly accept and select Zach Kassian :)

6. Pogge: trade the kid - he's going to bust. He's always been surrounded by great defense in Calgary and with the U20s Canadians that inflated his stats. I don't see him making the big saves when we need it the most. Maybe he's the kind of kid that feels he's entitled to a spot, I don't know. But I've never liked how we boosted him to be the saviour in net.. That being said, I ran into him at H&M at the Eaton Centre and my being a 6'1/190lbs guy that works out, he made me feel very inadequate.

5. Ponikarovsky: See Antropov

4. Kubina: I actually love Kubina. He's not always perfect, makes mistakes, seems disinterested at times, but I never question his heart or his loyalty to his teammates. He's a great bluffer for Schenn and Stralman as a top-pairing defenseman, but if you can get a 1st and prospect for him, I'm all for it, I guess.

3. Toskala has the trade value of pog.

2. Antropov: I love Antropov, but he's finished. Apparently he asked for $4-5M per season with a long contract. Outrageous. He's not worth it and needs to go. We can package him with Ponikarovsky (I hate the guy) and/or Kubina for draft picks, prospects and most likely another contract we can jettison elsewhere. I'm pleased that we've managed to develop a prospect into a 27-year old behemoth, but unfortunately, he has priced himself out of our range.

1. Kaberle: Trade him. He's not happy in Toronto and looks completely disinterested in competing. He's not terrible defensively, but he's not making an effort either. He's our greatest asset (next to our saviour and prophesied second coming of Jesus, Schenn), so we should try and get max value out of him as soon as possible. I think he'll be going to the Western Conference, contrary to a report saying that he gave a list of 10 teams to Burke that are all in the Eastern Conference. The parity from the 4th place team to the 15th is outstanding - 9 points separates them all. They'll try and outbid each other.

[Kevin L]

All this clamouring to trade Moore for a "top prospect" or second round pick. What team is going to give up a top notch prospect for a guy they may not have long? And, assuming a contending club trades a pick for him, that would be a low second rounder - how many good players come out of the low second round? I'm willing to bet not a player who will be as good as Moore. The money saved on Kubina and Kaberle can re-sign Moore to a modest increase, and still leave plenty of cap space. Moore is one of the very few players who has shown some talent and heart on this team - if there's a place for garbage like Brad may, there's certainly a place for Moore.

[Patrick]

in response to the comment made by Id0p, that is exactly why the leafs have no prospects nor do they have any chance in the next 3 years.We cannot hold on to players like Frogren (a 28 year old rookie) who is realisticaly nothing more than a 3rd line D on his best days. Moore should be shipped off in the "selling high" mentality, same with Antropov who actually isnt doing the poorly this season despite that 16 game goaless drought. Pogge is not going to save the leafs, as we all saw hopefuly in last nights first period, and we need to hold on to kaberle as he is the only deserved all star on the team. Schenn is clearly staying and Blake is going nowhere at least until the end of next season when his contract dips to 3 million. Ponikarovsky needs to go with his buddy Antropov and a superstar free agent is needed. burkey knows what hes doing and will turn this team around.

[Dan]

Damien:
The saw Brian Burke today in London.

Burke disclosed he has a deal on the table and they are thinking it over.

For me a leaf fan since 1962, its all about getting quality into the team.
Its all about getting players who hate to lose.
Its all about getting quality draft picks like Brayden Schenn.
Its all about getting 2 first rounders in the top 10.
Its all about getting a top goalie, like Nikolai Khabibulin or Niklas Backstrom.

Its about getting people on leafs TV that tell it the way it is.