A New Layer to An Old Story

For the first time, there may be more than smoke.

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly today confirmed that he recently met with a group of GTA businessmen interested in putting another NHL team in the Toronto area, likely near Vaughan.

“While we did in fact meet with individuals interested in having another NHL team in the Toronto area, it is safe to say that there isn’t any consideration being given to that prospect at this point in time,” said Daly in an email. “We have no interest in expanding, and we have no desire to relocate any existing franchises.”

The Globe and Mail today published a story saying Daly met with the group of unidentified businessmen last week for 2 1/2 hours to discuss their ideas. The story also said the group has spoken with NHL Players Association chief Paul Kelly, but union sources denied that.

Richard Peddie, speaking for the Maple Leafs, said he was unaware of the meeting.

"We've had no discussions with the league on expansion or transfer of franchises into our territory," Peddie told The Star's Kevin McGran. "If or when that ever occurs, I trust the NHL to bring it to the board of governors in their normal, thorough, analytical fashion and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment will make a decision at that time, what we think about it.

"To comment on the flavour of the day and the usual suspects, that's not very fruitful to us and we choose to have no other comment,"

The story of a second NHL team in Toronto has been kicking around for years, but the road block has always been that the Leafs, and possibly the Buffalo Sabres, would have to be compensated. When Jim Basillie, a Waterloo businessman, was looking at buying either the Pittsburgh Penguins or the Nashville Predators and possibly moving them to Hamilton, Ont., the compensation for the Leafs and Sabres was again an issue.

Peddie wouldn't say whether the Leafs would have a veto over another team being located in the GTA.

"We're not talking about the process at all," he said. "We'll deal with what our position is when or if we ever see something from the league."

The City of Vaughan, identified in the Globe report as the potential location for an arena and a new team, would also fall inside the Leafs’ territory.

Balsillie was apparently not personally involved in last week’s meeting, but rumours are already circulating that he may be an interested party.

The fact the NHL is at least willing to discuss the issue opens a new chapter in this story, and is likely connected to the fact that several U.S.-based franchises, notably Phoenix, are in severe financial distress. New York Islanders owner Charles Wang has said his team is losing upwards of $20 million a season and has threatened to move the team if he can’t get clearance for a new arena, while the Tampa Bay Lightning are rumoured to be in the red to the tune of $25 million per season just a year after being sold to Hollywood producer Oren Koules and former NHL player Len Barrie.

Rather than folding teams, the league would prefer to re-locate them if absolutely necessary, but in these economic times cities willing and able to accommodate new teams would be hard to find.

The league is also clearly kicking the tires on Las Vegas, having agreed to hold its awards show in that city for the next three years starting this June.

All that said, a source familiar with last week's meeting played down its important, calling the meeting "extremely insignificant."

Comments

[Danny J]

The more I think about it, the more I don't believe this team will be nearly as successful as the Leafs. I just don't see all my die-hard Leaf fan buddies going for another team located up the 427 or down the QEW in Hamilton. It'd need a few years and some playoff success to make itself viable.

[Rossvegas]

If they're seriously considering moving franchises, the Coyotes should be returned to Winnipeg because the people in the 'Peg still consider them "their team". It would a natural fit...

[Um]

Good, Toronto needs some competition. Call them the Leaf Blowers.

[Dennis Regan]

Hurry please! I'm quickly losing interest in hockey due to the Leafs and their corporate power. Let's fill new seats with fans, not faces. Let's have a hockey team, not a business. We need owners who know and love the game. Love to see Gretzy finally get here. MLS wouldn't allow him the first time, now let's stick it to them!

[Jeff]

Maybe that's what Burke meant when he said he wanted Tavaris to play in T.O. Islanders draft him, then move to Vaughan.

[Bold Bravado]

How is it that former Canadian NHL cities never seem to hit the mark? Winnipeg and Quebec immediately comes to mind. To think that MLSE would allow this to happen without a serious thought regarding compensation is somewhat ludicrous. Question is although populace may support 2 teams, can demographics? Hamilton would make sense, but, 2 teams in the GTA, just can’t see it.

[XavierF]

you could get rid of five markets today and the league would only be better for it: Florida, Tampa, Nashville, San José and Anaheim. There are another five thet could stay under certain conditions:
Carolina- nobody even knows if they're in North or South Carolina. They're doing well, move them to Toronto or Halifax.
Atlanta- if they change back to the Flames, they can stay. Two teams with the same name will drive american fans nuts. It doesn't seem to bother canadians.
Minnesota- change them back to the north stars. (see above)
Phoenix- move them back to Winnepeg where they belong
Kings- they can stay if they go back to the old purple and gold Marcel Dionne uniforms

I won't get started on bringing back the names of the divisions

[Mark]

Daly's comments about the league having no interest "at this point in time" could be invalid tomorrow, which is a different "point in time". Obviously he doesn't want to destabilize current teams who are trying to stay in their present locations by suggeting that they may move. Also, as I have always said, I think the idea of "compensation" for teams whose market area is invaded by a relocated team is a legal non-starter if it went to the courts. I, as a fan, am not "owned" by anybody. Neither have I have given my "rights" as a fan to any team. We don't have slavery in Canada. And in a free market system, no team owns market, territorial rights. The only market area a team owns is land that has their name on a deed. A second Toronto area team is inevitable once weak American franchises start folding.

[scottd]

The NHL always talks in riddles even when the average fan can see that the league as a whole is in danger. They will never move back to where previous teams were because they have too much misguided pride. Canada only NHL would be fine.

[Josh Tzventarny]

This only makes sense if they connect the new arena to the subway they are building up there.

[Tree]

Following up on Mark's post above, I think you're absolutely correct concerning the legality of compensating teams moving into another teams' territory. One need only look at Al Davis and the Raiders. For those unfamiliar, the NFL had the same territorial rules the NHL currently has, and wouldn't allow a move from LA to Oakland b/c it was considered SFs territory. Davis sued and won; the NFL was left with egg on its' collective face as a result. The precedence has been set (yes, I realize it was in the US, but the NHL is a corporate entity based in the US). Getting past the out-of-touch NHL BoG to approve the sale of a team to someone intent on moving it, however, is another story. But I think with the NHL keeping its head buried in the sand with respect to the dire financial situation facing many teams, and the likelihood of necessity, we will soon see a desire for owners to line their pockets with cash from a relocated franchise (as it is not shared with players and may be the only money the vast majority of owners make from their teams). Majority rules, and MLSE and Buffalo wouldn't have enough sway to change the financial reality facing so many owners/teams.

[musquash2]

While the NHL continues its policy of paying millions to goons, it doesn't deserve one ounce of help. When skill is emphasised, rather than fighting, perhaps the NHL will start to thrive again.

[A.Political]

The Leafs need the competition at the very minimum. I'm tired of seeing them perched a top their marginal revenue curve full well knowing they don't need to do anything regarding the profit side of the equation and any major moves would result in a decrease in profits, so they do nothing while going through the motions to calm the fans.

If they saw a bleed in gate revenues from a competing team then we'd see them actually do something tangible to improve the Leafs rather than this recurring promise of rebuilding the team in to a winner -- which by the way I have BEEN LISTENING TO SINCE THE 93-94 SEASON!

[Sanj]

I am placing a bet that this new team, the Vaughan Vagabonds win the Stanley Cup before the Leafs do!

[Lex]

NHL needs to stop being stupid about relocation and MLSE needs to stop being greedy. Make this happen and allow fans that cannot access the Leafs (corporate whores) watch NHL hockey.

[Ghornet]

I can't see another GTA team being popular. Too many die hard Leaf fans just wont convert.

Winnipeg and Quebec would see fan support but the corporate dollars just aren't there.

What would work is to select 5 teams that are in the red ink and move them to Europe. Create a European Division in the Eastern conference. Re-align to compensate. Russia would get then get its wish: Russian players, playing at home, in the best league in the world.

[Nolan Palmer]

Maybe Tavares will end up in Toronto - just not a Leaf

[chris]

Hope these prospective owners build their playpen with their own money. No way taxpayers should fit the bill, in these economic hardships, if they believe a second NHL in Toronto can work like a charm.

[NoLeafsNo]

XavierF: fyi..The Hurricanes are in Raleigh, North Carolina. Why not move the Leafs out of Toronto? They may make money but they are the worst organization with the worst fans in the league. The ACC is like a morgue during Leafs games. Carolina fans make more noise and generate more excitement during preseason games. Toronto's self proclaimed "hockey town" is a joke...have they celebrated their 50th cup less anniversary yet?

[Billster]

Hey!! The Habs are for sale! They can probably be had at a rock bottom price right now.Think of it!
All the mothball smelling Hab sweater wearers heading up to Vaughn to boo their own team.They would sell out immediately and free up space at the ACC for the Leaf Nation!!!What's not to like?

[Mia Smith]

I would add teams to Winnipeg, Hamiliton, Toronto and Quebec City. Delete Phoenix, Florida, Atlanta and Tampa bay. The league would be 100 times stronger. The impact on US TV ratings of this change will be near ZERO - the idiots running the NHL are just out to lunch on this issue.

[kd_royal]

Please not Vaughan, anywhere but Vaughan!

[BB192]

Perhaps the Leaf market needs to be split. The Leafs are not going to win a cup anytime soon. A second team even the Marlies stand as good or better chance of winning a cup before the Leafs. If the NHL can make a buck, they will, look at the money people put out on the losers iced by the Leafs each year. It could also force the Leafs to get put out. But Vaughan?

[2nd Guess]

I'm with Bold Bravado -- while population and demographics would suggest that a 2nd team in Toronto is viable, you could be looking at a hockey version of the Los Angeles Clippers. Say you market this team as an alternative for fans who can't get their hands on Leafs tickets; you would, of necessity, have a lower ticket-price scale (and second choice of TV deals), resulting in limited revenues and the perception that you will always be a second-rate franchise. Hamilton, however, could thrive under all these conditions because it would be the biggest game in town. One other catch is that you would then have 3 teams in the Golden Horseshoe, a situation that has been less than ideal in the New York City area (which has 3 times the Horseshoe's population).

[Dave]

To Tree,
Am I confused? Weren't the Raiders in Oakland and Al Davis sued the NFL for the rights to move them to LA which was Rams territory?