Toronto Edition

« Fairness Delayed, But Finally Fairness | Main | Another Piece of the Puzzle »

April 02, 2009

Comments

mia cutnaslicre

ok, DC - read your report on Burke and the Leafs and for the first time I agree with everything you said...what took you so long...

mf37

I think your interpretation of the Frogren situation really over simplifies things.

The Leafs, NHLPA and Don Meehan all agreed that as a 28 year old Euro, Frogren wasn't restricted to an entry level SPC (that case certainly can be made under multiple sections of the CBA). The NHL disagreed, claiming Frogren was a "defected player"

Even though the Leafs lost that fight, I think it's great that they were creatively trying to add some talent to a team that had been pretty much depleted by the previous administration.

D-Man

Pains me to say it, but I have to acknowledge that Damien is correct and has been correct about Cliff. I rate his moves thusly:

Schenn: obviously a good pick as he has proven he can play in the NHL but the cost of a second and third is noteworthy for a bad team. I'd like to know who else the Leafs were considering in the 7th spot.

Grabovski: I am fine dealing a second for a skilled 24 yr old.

Finger: Serviceable, very bad contract. Misread the coming marketplace.

Hagman: Good player, probably two years too early for this team, too much term. Dallas could certainly use him.

Hollweg/Mayers/Frogren: First one ridiculous, second one too pricey, third gets worse every day.

Wilson: Excellent hire.

08 draft: They seem to have found some decent upside later in Hayes and Stefanovich.

Van Ryn: Good return for a bad contract, though not as good as mccabe.

Tucker buyout: fantastic

D-Man

Stempniak: I always liked Carlo and believe Wilson could have made him better or Burke could have gotten more in return. Steen has no set role on a Burke team. Not skilled enough for top six, not abrasive enough for bottom six. But Stempniak offers little except a smaller cap hit (1.8) than salary (3.5) next year. I expect he will be a Marlie. Bad move Fletch.

ray b

Fletcher also traded for Grabovski and signed Ron Wilson as the coach..Alex Steen and Coliacovo were duds..Neither looked worthy of being top players on this club..Are you actually suggesting these two bums were a part of the future??..How did he trade away the future for a 25 yr old Stempniak?? Is 25 too old now?? Maybe he hasn't scored as much as they hoped but he looks like a good player and the goals will come..He is a better player then Steen..Coliacovo is a walking medical record..

Fletcher dumped Mcabe and got a decent return in Van Ryan..Too bad the guy keeps getting hurt but this was a good trade for Toronto..Hagman is a top 6 forward and has some great speed..He is a perennial 20-25 goal scorer..

Fletcher traded up to get Luke Schenn and that looks to be a great move as well..

I guess your some kind of genius because you seem to know what Fletcher was going to do..Can I borrow your crystal ball?..Fletcher didn't sign one guy over 30 and if he did trade for Bobby Ryan wouldn't that have been a good deal?..They would have traded a 9th-10th overall pick for a kid who is leading the NHL rookie scoring race..Too bad he didn't do it huh?..

Bold Bravado

Damien, I can't believe that we agree on something but, the take on Burke is pretty accurate. I can't stress enough, that although some damage may have been done through Fletch, the majority of the issue's today are carry over from JFJ. He should go down as the worst manager in TML history, and his legacy with the Blues still haunts that team today!! We went into the strike missing a few pieces and came out of it with nothing. The single biggest loss being Roberts. Even more of a concern was the lackluster performances provided by what was deemed the leaders of the team post Quinn. This had become a mainstay, and instead of gaining a task master to replace Quinn, (Who incidentally was the most knowledgeable hockey person in the whole organization at that time) they retained the services of Maurice, who is a great guy, didn’t fit the need, and the vets played him for all it was worth. With Burke the jury is out, I like the fact that he measures himself by the on ice performance of the team, and is quoted as stating how he was disappointed that he could not have made a larger thumb print on the team by now. This off season will prove to be his legacy, and what he will be measured by. Rebuilding doesn’t always have to be painful, Leafs have some money, and there is a decent UFA pool to spend on, in earnest veterans are needed to bring in young talent and put in the right direction. In addition, with the current ticket prices, you need to ice an entertaining product. Things were so bad under Maurice, I stopped going, can you say BORING!!! In any event, for our sake, I hope he is all he’s cracked up to be, sincerely, the time has come to lay the ground work for a serious bid at Stanley within a 3 yr plan.
I have my fingers crossed, I really wish Burke all the best!!

Ryan

Agreed that Fletcher did more bad than good in his interim position. I mostly blame the higher ups for putting Fletcher in that position. But on the deadline deal with T Bay, i'm pretty sure Burke didn't run the deal by Bettman to see if it was ok out of due diligence, rather, all trades need NHL approval. If Fletcher did the same deal, and I concede he wouldn't have concocted such a plan, it would have had to be OK'd by the NHL also. I don't see how Hanson could be a mistake. Even if this Friday is the only game he ever plays in the NHL, signing him to a 2 yr entry level contract for any rookie that shows potential is a winning situation. It's not like he is throwing a 5yr 25/mil contract at him nor could he if he wanted to. I just hope they can sign a couple more college kids. Toronto seems to be a good destination and has more opportunity for these kind of kids...and who would want to sign with Atlant/T Bay/Islanders anyway.

steve

the "light-weight" Lee Stempniak leads all leafs forwards in hits. I'll take Stempniak over Alex Steen any day of the week. He is basically the same age and has potential to be a consistent, versatile, 2-way 20-25 goal guy (who also plays the point on the PP). Alex Steen will never be more than a 3rd line checker who kills penalties - Steen, in true Leafs fashion, was over-hyped and over-sold throughout his entire tenure here. Carlo Colaiacovo is injury prone, it's a product of the way he plays and the blueline is too crowded here for him. Did we overpay for Stempniak? Yes, in the short term, but Stempniak has more upside.

D-Man

Right on ray b. I would take Bobby Ryan for the Leafs 1st in 09 every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The probability that Glennie, or Kadri or Despres or Schroeder becomes a top flight NHLer is not high, while Ryan is already there.

To be somewhat fair to Cox, the mooted trade would have happened early in the season when the Leafs were expected to be a lottery team. Maybe Cliff just knew better on this one. Still, Cox should acknowledge that Ryan was the likely return, rather than tarring Cliff with a simple 'dealing away the club’s 2009 first rounder to the Ducks.'

DamienCox

Damien here. . .coupla quick points. . .on Colaiacovo/Steen for Stempniak, what some apparently fail to understand (or won't) is that it was far less important what the two former first rounders were or were going to be, and more important that taking on an underachieving veteran with a huge contract wasn't a good idea.
Second, you can try to twist this until the cows get home, but the reality is that the Leafs gave up a first, second and third to move up in the draft and get Schenn. Period.
Finally, those of you who want to write and argue that Fletcher was going to be able to trade the Leafs first rounder in '09 and make it draft protected to Anaheim straight up for Bobby Ryan are living in a truly amazing dream world.
The Ducks would have wanted much more. Whether it still would have been a good deal we'll never know, but Anaheim didn't make it, so it only exists in the fantasy world.

Danny Manning

Mr. Cox - your general point about Burke having a solid plan is correct but you have to let the axe you have to grind with Fletcher go. Wow, patently unfair. There is no evidence to suggest Fletcher was going to go for a playoff position and ignore the long-term plan for his own interests. His moves in the 10 or so months he was in charge were ok. Some good, some bad, some indifferent. As other posters have said in this forum, the term of contracts for Finger and Hagman could become a big problem but the other stuff you're constantly yammering on about is window-dressing, minor details of running an NHL team. Stop using extreme examples - we know you hate Hollweg and that once in a blue moon a fifth-rounder pans out but most are NEVER heard from - but the move at the time was what it was. Ditto Mayers (the guy had just won two WC medals) and Frogren (who could still pan out). LET IT GO.

Nathan

Yes, Stempniak the grizzled veteran, being drafted all the way back in the days where we used to huddle around the radio listening to the hockey broadcast...2003. He was born all the way back in February 1983, a whole 8 days after Carlo Coliacavo and he is more than a year older than Alex Steen (March 1984). Horrible trade by Cliff sacrificing youth for...youth?

Gerard

- Stempniak, and Colaiacovo are the same age. Steen is one year younger.

- That means, if Stempniak qualifies as a veteran, so do Colaiacovo and Steen.

- So by Damian's own analysis, the Leafs traded an injury-prone veteran (Colaiacovo), and an underachieving veteran (Steen), for a veteran (Stempniak) who was not underachieving as much as Steen.

- Also might help if the cap numbers were checked. Stempniak's cap number is only 1.8 million. What he is actually paid does not matter ... he only counts as 1.8m against the cap. Combined, Steen and Colaiacovo were something like 2.2m. Which means Fletcher actually saved the team close to half a million on the cap with this deal.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

The Spin on Sports by Damien Cox



  • Damien Cox, the Star's hockey columnist and associate sports editor, takes turns stirring up trouble and chuckling at the foibles of the sporting world. He'll start with hockey, Canada's ongoing passion play, and stick his nose into a few other games and places where athletes reside. You'll love some of his thoughts, hate others and get a chance to give your two cents on all of them.

    Click here to send Damien your Maple Leafs or hockey question and he'll answer a selection in the blog.

del.icio.us

Advertisement


Legal Notice

  • TheStar.com
    Copyright Toronto Star Newspapers Limited. All rights reserved. The views expressed are those of the writer and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Toronto Star or www.thestar.com. The Star is not responsible for the content or views expressed on external sites. Distribution, transmission or republication of any material is strictly prohibited without the prior written permission of Toronto Star Newspapers Limited.
    For information please contact us using our webmaster form. www.thestar.com online since 1996.