Reasons Not To Go

To the cacophony of concern over minuscule Jays crowds this week, let me add a personal experience.

For the 11-year-old boy's birthday, we and another dad and son took in the Yankees game eight days ago at the dome. Picked up the tickets, $50 per, which got us great seats eight rows up along the first base line.

Bought the obligatory overpriced food, and were in place for the first pitch. So far so good.

Joining us for the game in the seats directly in front of us were three young men and two girls, girlfriends to two of the guys. Right away, it was clear that the intent of the men was to quaff as many beers as possible over the course of the game, and of course it had to turn into a marathon.

Now, you can wonder about the financial I.Q. of people who imagine it makes sense to drink wildly overpriced beer to excess while paying no attention to the entertainment on the field, but whatever. As the game wore along, the swearing picked up, as did the volume and the general distraction as they clearly weren't all that interested in the game. They wanted to drink beer and find ways for someone, anyone, to pay attention to them. And, naturally, they always imagine themselves to be the funniest people in the building. By about the sixth inning, it was impossible to ignore them, and the fact there were two small children very close by didn't really impact on them and their behaviour.

Predictably, by the ninth inning, internal tensions had grown, and one stood up, drilled his buddy with a right hand and stalked off.

Now, I should tell you my son and his pal found all of this wildly entertaining. But to me, these were reasons not to go to another Blue Jays game. For roughly $200, you basically buy a lottery ticket and hope you don't get stuck with drunken idiots nearby. Meanwhile, the objective of the organization seems to be to encourage maximum beer consumption, and the results are predictable. It wasn't an awful experience, but it was unpleasant. Call me a prude, I guess.

All this would be fine, it seems to me, if the Jays were grappling with excess demand. But they're not, and crowds of 11,461 and 11,159 this week suggest big problems may lie ahead with the baseball team seemingly sentenced to endless mediocrity.

If you have an outstanding team people desperately want to see, maybe you don't have to worry about whether some people have to grin and bear it when seated near people whose objective is to drink and be loud in general, not loud as baseball fans.

But if you have these Jays, you better make sure that's not happening, ever. If a family can't be guaranteed a family experience, why would a family ever return?.

Comments

[Randy Starkman]

I gotta agree with my colleague, Damien, on this one. Went to a Jays game a few years ago with my daughter, mom, sister and her husband and their kids. Bunch of punks behind us keep banging on our seats -- including my Mom's. At one point, I look up and my brother-in-law, who's the most mild mannered guy in the world, is about to exchange punches with one of the punks. It nearly turned into a brawl. I don't know what the answer is. I can remember going to Argo games as a kid and there'd be a grow-op in the row behind us. Actually, I think the moral is: Go watch amateur sports. Cheaper. Better seats. Better atmosphere.

[Thane]

Dan, for everybody who doesn't show up because they won't ban drinkers, there are probably two people who won't show up if they made the games dry. It would probably lower attendence more than it would raise it.

The solution is family or designated-dry zones - preferably in a variety of price-brackets.

[Chazz Michaels]

loosen up Toronto,
so some drunken guys were swearing at a sporting event big deal,
whats next bring your child to a boxing match and then complain about the violence in the ring, get real or grow some balls and tell those people to watch their mouths as there are kids around.
Oh I guess you don't want to break your precious typing hands.

[Kevin]

Last time I had that problem (many years ago), I complained to the ushers, and the 4 in our group were moved to better seats to get away from the drunks. We started off down the left field line, about half way between third base and the outfield fence. We were given better seats, half way between third and home to make up for the trouble. But then, this was in the pre-Rogers days, when customer service actually meant something.

[Cory]

Some people are amazing. If you need to get loaded to watch the Jays debacle, why not do it at home and watch on TV while hammering a case of cheap beer instead of showing up to the ballpark to drink $10 brewskis? I have been to 12 games (11-1 when I am there) and the only game I can afford to get drunk is opening day. Yet, win or lose, no matter how pissed off I might get, I know not to yell out F-bombs around kids. It's not cool. I've seen these frat boys have chugging contests but it's just embarrassing because getting drunk off 5 beers and swearing about a game they know nothing about makes them look pathetic. Real fans know how to get drunk and still use their brains and be respectful.

[Erc]

Baseball went through a period of drink-til-you-puke, then duke it out in the 1980's. It was rampant in many American stadiums.
Eventually, stadium staff began to clamp down. Intoxication levels don't reach near the level they did 'back in the day'.
Check attendance figures. Someone must like the change.
You cannot build a solid fan base on the 'escape-through-alcohol-set' but you can destroy one. (if you have a good enough product to have built a fan base).

[Robert Jones]

I had a similar experience at last Saturday's Yankee game. I took my son, and we were 8 rows above the field on the first base line. We, too, shelled out around $50 for each ticket and forked over for the obligatory overpriced snacks and drinks. Two young men (with one young woman) arrived drunk and were loud, obnoxious, and profane. The Jays had no problem with this behaviour apparently, as they had no trouble obtaining more alcohol throughout the course of the game. Their moronic behaviour reached its peak late in the game when they lighted cigarettes, explaining "who cares if we get kicked out now 'cause the game's almost over".

I will also think long and hard about returning to see another game, and if I were managing a team perpetually mired below at least two teams in their division operating in a city with many entertainment options, I would be very concerned indeed about this.

[twitter.com/PetersonKen]

Hi Damien,
I'm a 24-year old recent grad so my ideal trip to a Jays game is likely different from yours. However, I have taken summer camps to Jays games and the painful awkwardness of mixing children and drunken buffoons is some I know all too well. However, I would suggest that, with the notable exception of the home opener, those people are in the minority. There are far more compelling reasons to stay away from the dome.

My big reason? Games in the Rogers Centre just aren't fun to watch. I've been to games at Fenway, PNC Park and (Old) Yankee Stadium to watch games and even though the teams I have cheered for lost all but one of the games I had a remarkable amount of fun. By the 3rd inning or so the shine of being in a foreign park had worn off - I was simply enjoying the action.

I've tried to figure out why that was so and I think I nailed it this season. The entertainment crew in the Rogers Centre is dead-set on ensuring that there will not be a single moment without a mild cacophony going on in everybody's ears at all times. It's as if they believe every paying customer to be the poster-child for ADHD. They blast pop music, they hide baseballs in swirling dump trucks, they force electricity to race from Kincardine to Toronto at break-neck speed... all the while trying to convince you that "Coming to the Rogers Centre is fun for everybody!" Now, this isn't a knock on the facility itself even at 20 years old it still feels well taken care of and is generally a decent venue for a sporting event. It's the mind-numbingly abrasive way that they use it that rubs me the wrong way.

All of these silly little gimmicks water down the experience, come across as hackneyed as well as insincere, and are overwhelmingy annoying. It is impossible for a person (aged 5-95, baseball fan or not) to sit and have an experience wherein their sole concern is BASEBALL. All through university I would go to 5-10 games a year but this year I've only managed to get to 3 and I'm not even considering a 4th. And it has nothing to do with their performance - I'm a fan of the Leafs for crying out loud! The in-stadium product just stinks.

[LOCKSTOCK93]

I'd respect you a lot more if you didn't choose to respond to relatively weak arguments.

Did you complain to an usher? If not, i'd have to say that you haven't been assertive enough and that complaining now sounds a little weak.

If you complained and there wasn't a response from the staff, then I can see your problem, but people are going to be rowdy at sports games. Rowdiness is promoted. Drinking to excess(or at least to exuberance) is encouraged.

IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM - TELL SOMEONE WHO CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! Or don't bellyache, right? Especially after you came back from the game and wrote an article that was all about fan apathy. Neglecting to mention that the people in front of you were doing more than shrugging.

[Tabber]

Nice to see some "fans" think it's not a problem to be drunkenly accosted, have the view blocked, have kids sworn at, be spit on, etc. Because of people like you, I will not be attending some major league sporting events, lest you walk into my fist or elbow and sue me for the damage to your face (which would invariably be improved by the accident). Now stop telling me I should attend games. It'll be cheaper for you to come by and walk into my fist if you are so determined to get damaged.

[Buck]

I have been on both sides of fence. In my younger days my friends and I would go cames to start the start the night off, consuming many beers and probably being louder than we should be. Now as a father I go to the games with my children as a family event. Solution? Why not have a Family Section that, unlike most places, aren't the worst seats in the house? I would forego my one or two beers at game to make it a more enjoyable family event.

[Kevin Freeman]

Went to Aug 21 Jays phils with my son 13 and 3 nephews 14,24.27. Sat in sec 107 (I think) right above the Phils pen 5 rows. Over 3 hours 8 overpriced beers were consumed by 2 in our group. As the game wound down those who were buzzed drifted out and there was no one in front of us we moved down to the rail and were kidding around with the bp catcher,hoping that the kids might get a ball. A young woman told us we had to return to our seats (nobody left in the section) when questioned she said it was her supervisor and pointed to the top where there were 5 or 6 beefy guys glaring at us. I mentioned that a team with attendance problems should be more crowd friendly that seemed to up the tension. Sit in he cheap seats Damien. I related this to the jays and got no response. Having attended at least 100 expo games at Jarry and the big O and dozens of others in the us northeast Id say security is the least of the worries at rogers fun and entertainment should be the priority Toronto remains the most tight assed city I ve been to.

[Dave C.]

Had a similar experience in August against the D-Rays. We just moved a section over where it was more quieter as did most people in the section. RC staff was more than happy to allow it. By the sixth inning Toronto's Finest had to escort the fans out.

[JoeKnowsIt]

All the excuses for Blue Jays lack of attendance? I have a reason. Maybe most people just don't like baseball in Toronto? Makes sense to me.

[Standing in the Dark]

Add my voice to the ones who have had similar experiences. Went to a Jays-Bosox game about 3 years ago with my father-in-law and then-12 year old son. A group of 20-something losers in front of us were getting drunker and drunker as the game wore on, standing up screaming at the field, then staying standing up blocking our view. I'm the timid sort so wouldn't say anything other than to quietly explain to my bewildered son that these losers were drunk (and stupid for spending $8 per beer). Luckily, my father-in-law is a retired Canadian Forces major. He had no qualms whatsoever about telling them to sit down and shut up!

[James]

At a Yankee game a few months ago me and some friends were heckling A-Rod with a 'Sterrrr-oooiiddds' chant every time he was up to bat.

We werent drinking, we werent cursing, we werent insistently yelling at every player. We were specifically taunting A-Rod.

We were told by ushers that this is not allowed. When we spoke to a manager about it we were simply told that 'steroids' is not something we are allowed to say.

What made it even more frustrating, was the night before (AJ vs. Doc) the entire stadium was chanting 'steroids' at A-Rod. But now, because there was a smaller crowd, we couldnt do it anymore.

Suffice to say, we left the game much less enthused about ever coming back.

[Wesley Celestino]

Oh boo hoo Damien. Watch the game at home if you can't take it. Go to a Yankee, Bosox, or Philly game and you will see vulgarity. A couple of drunk boys with their girlfriends ruined your day? LOL! Toronto fans are bubble-wrapped. It's a sporting event Damien. Take your son to Chuck E. Cheese if you want family fun.

[Stickles21]

very good point Damien. I frequent many games at Fenway Park and over the years they have done a very good job of making it more fan and family friendly. they have security staff in every aisle and if some jerk is making it uncomfortable for the fans who came to watch the game they tell them to shutup or leave.
if the drunken idiot gets unruly, more security is called in. It works.

[Andrew]

"The other side of this problem is I have seen the Rogers centre staff quiet genuine fans who were cheering or heckling the other team in a loud manner. I'm not talking about profanity, just loud cheers, standing to applaud or shout (sometimes clever) insults at the opposing teams. The ushers always seem to be around to "shush" these fans, or respond to complaints in these cases.

I'm with you Damien, get the louts out, but let the fan cheer his guys, even if it means they are louder than the average Toronto fan."

That's actually closer to my experience at the Rogers Centre recently. I was at the Argos/Ti-Cats game on Friday, and there were a number of Ti-Cat fans in the section. They had a few beers in 'em, true (I'm a non-drinker, myself) but they weren't being rude, just the good natured jawing between fans that make a game more fun. But they were all kicked out, essentially for daring to cheer for someone other than the home side. It made me embarrassed to be a Torontonian. I went to Ivor Wynne on the Monday dressed in my Argo colours and while I took some abuse I was treated wonderfully. Why can't we afford visitors here the same courtesy?

I do respect what you're saying, though, Damien, and it becomes clear to me that the Rogers Centre staff don't know how to handle ANY situation. I don't mind the facility, but I find the way it's run to be off putting.

[Bill Gotro]

That's why I stay home and watch the games on my 60-inch TV. No bozzo's to contend with and I can get a beer whenever I want. I haven't needed the stadium experience (no matter the sport) for many years now and would never pay for overpriced tickets to any sporting event!

[chris]

"All the excuses for Blue Jays lack of attendance? I have a reason. Maybe most people just don't like baseball in Toronto? Makes sense to me." JoeKnowsIt (or, JoeKnowsNothing)

Ah yes, the mindless reason, Joe. That would make sense only to a jingoistic moron like you.

Who owns the Rogers Centre? The people who own the Jays. Where do the Argos play? The Rogers Centre, where they're a tenant getting free rent. When the Jays rebuild themselves, the crowds will return. And the Argos place in the city will be tenuous again. Ergo, the Argos are in more danger of leaving than the Blue Jays.

You're welcome.

[Rick Cottier]

I don't go to Jays games more than 1-2 times a year because the beer costs too much. I'm not obnoxious or profane as a result, I just want a beer or three and $30 is way too much for that.
Damien, you should have some fortitude. If the group in front of you was too loud YOU should have done something about it (asked them to keep the language cleaner or else). Too often, people will complain to ushers or complain in their blog on the Toronto Star website, but won't actually get up and say something to the people that are annoying them. That would take guts and might lead to a disagreement... and we all know how Damien feels about conflict and confrontation.

[Cliff Smythe]

Damien with all do respect,

Any fan going to a professional sporting event shouldn't expect to be in a library.

I've been to 11-12 games this year as part of a flex pack, and doubt I'll be buying one again anytime soon, the atmosphere is poor and I've seen more then a couple of fans that were cheering (loudly yes, profane/rude no) escorted out of the stadium by ushers - 100 level outfield.

I'll agree that random drunks don't have a place at the game, nor should fans that leave/go to their seats during play, or stand inappropriately during play. But the fan that has a beer/two (or none at all) shouldn't have to be worried about being tossed out of the stadium if they heckle the opposing team. For the record, neither myself nor anyone in my party have been tossed.

I guess the Jays want to play in front of a stadium full of cardboard cutouts of fans that are unable to make noise, they are well on their way with the lack of positive direction from management, and the neutering of the remaining fans that take the time & money to show up to the games.

[Jeff]

Damien, I am a somewhat regular in the Toronto sporting scene. I am a season seat holder for the Raptors (15-20 games per year) and also go to 10-12 Jays games every summer.

Two things - first you must complain to the ushers - it is their job to deal with rowdy fans - not yours. I often see an excessive amount of drinking at games (I NEVER DRINK AT A GAME - NOT SURE IF I'M TOO SMART TO PAY THE PRICE OR TOO CHEAP) and know that some people are unable to control themslves. If the usher fails to deal with the situation properly, then complain about the usher. Twice this season, I saw people removed from their seats for drinking related complaints. As well, I am one of those people who "gets into the game" but I never swear or say anything offensive.

Second - why eat at the ballpark? You used the phrase "bought the obligatory overpriced food". The last time I looked (which was last week), there were no "obligatory" food lines for people. I went with a friend to a local restaurant, had a great meal and then enjoyed a great ballgame without spending one cent in the Dome.

Finally - an interesting point - Jays attendance is historically at its lowest point the week after opening day and the week following Labour Day. Instead of whining about what is wrong with sports and society in general, perhaps you are the one who needs to change. I'm sure that your positive spin on the Jays game got lots of people to want to go see them play. I don't think you are a prude - just someone who needs to look at the beer glass as half full.

[Dave Paskar]

Hey Damian, Funny you mentioned moving to cheaper seats to escape the idiots. I tried this at a game this season, moving from row 5 in the 100's to row 25 where there was no one around so I could take in the game while chatting with a buddy that I hadn't seen in awhile. Soon enough, an usher came by and ordered us back to our seats, despite my kind plea to stay.

Anyways, I don't know what the Jays expect from us. I have been to 11 games this year, the Jays record with me there? 1-10 Why pay $30+ to see another loss and the same repeated corporate promos on the 'tron?