You're Kidding, Right?

Any news involving Mike Danton usually has a jarring effect. Just the overall weirdness of it all.

Even when he sat down with former NHLer Nick Kypreos on Sportsnet to give his first post-prison interview a few weeks ago, his answers were strange and seemingly cooked up.

Now, St. Mary's University in Halifax has decided to join in the Danton weirdness party.

Right off the top, I have absolutely no problem with Danton attending university and attempting to get an education to improve his life. That's a good thing.

But the fact the Huskies are apparently going to let him play for the varsity hockey team is just so far out there in overall stupidity it, well, has a jarring effect.

The school claims it thought long and hard about this, and that Danton deserves a second chance.

A second chance at what, exactly? A second chance at an education? Sure. 

But a second chance at hockey? Sorry, gentlemen, he's on about his ninth chance. He's a PROFESSIONAL hockey player. Surely that should erase eligibility to play university hockey in Canada, shouldn't it? Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't 161 games of pro hockey somehow make a player still able to play in the CIS? Could Chris Chelios play for U of T if he so desired?

He's also 29 years old with a long rap sheet of misdemeanors and on-ice crimes. In junior hockey, he was a one-man wrecking crew, well, except for the times he was surrounded by the rest of David Frost's gang.

Again, let the man go to school. But let him play CIS hockey? What a dreadful decision. Is the school taking any steps to make sure Frost isn't around or involved? Are they making sure Frost can't attend St. Mary's games? Have they asked Danton, an ex-con, for a more thorough explanation of his past than was demanded on Sportsnet? Will he be carefully watched to make sure he's attending classes and actually working towards graduating?

This, of course, is also a comment on the dirty secret of Canadian university hockey. See, the one thing Danton won't feel in St. Mary's is old. The school carefully avoids listing the ages of its hockey players on its website — sensitive issue, you see — but the entire team is made up of second chances, guys who played in the Ontario Hockey League and Quebec Major Junior Hockey League but weren't good enough to go any further.

So now they've found a place to keep playing hockey — for another five years.

The oldest player on the team, Marc Rancourt, is 25. Most of the rest of the roster ranges between 22 and 24 years of age, most in second or third year. Every single one is an ex-major junior player, including former OHLers like Cory Tanaka, Tyler Cuthbert, Cody Thornton and Ryan Rorabeck.

This team isn't much younger than the AHL Toronto Marlies, for goodness sakes. It's a semi-pro team masquerading as a university hockey squad.

So the kid who graduates high school on time and would like to attend university at the age of 18 and perhaps play for his school?

No chance. He'd be competing against players five or six years his senior.

Or in Danton's case, seasoned pros a decade older.

To me, this has always been double-dipping of the worst kind. These young men made the choice to go major junior, played 3-5 years, and are now getting another chance to keep playing in university.

So they were better than the kids of their own group, which is fine, but now they're taking away a hockey opportunity from younger players as well.

Now this Danton story. People in Canada like to look down on some of the recruiting practices in NCAA sports, laugh at the notion of the American "student-athlete."

Well check out the St. Mary's hockey team and you tell me if this is what CIS sports is supposed to be all about.

Now, because Danton can help the Huskies win, he's getting a "second chance."

Sorry, that was about six or seven chances ago.

A student? Sure. But having Danton play CIS hockey is nothing short of embarrassing, both to the school and Canadian university sport.

Comments

[SMUALUM]

As a St. Mary's alumnus. I am ashamed of this Danton move by the Huskies. However, I must point out that SMU is no different than teams across the country. In football, the Manitoba Bisons won the Vanier Cup with a team older than any CIS hockey team you will ever find. I was also at the CIS championship game many moons ago, in the early 1970's when St. Mary's lost to U of T when Paul Laurent scored in the dying seconds. Paul Who? Well, he was a law student in his 7th (count 'em 7) season with the Blues. As a matter of fact SMU lost to U of T in the final 5 years in a row because it was an undergrad university with players gone after 4 years while the CIAU did not stop Toronto from bringing in players for unlimited years. I agree the Danton move is unprecedented but the age and playing eligibiltity issue has a history and cuts both ways. Keep the issues separate Damien!

[Fred]

Agree 100% with John and others. I am a fan of AUS and CIS hockey for years and a large number of players have gone to university and graduated and gone on to good minor pro careers. There are many academic all canadian hockey players, some with gpa of 4 and above. These guys took a shot at the NHL dream and when it didn't happen, got an education. They play in front of small crowds for the most part and play because the want to, not because they have to. At time I have to shake my head at some of your comments, Damien. My head has just fallen off.

[Clevie Baron]

Nothing wrong with guys finishing up their major junior careers and then moving on to get their education while playing for the varsity teams CIS schools at the same time. What I think Damien is driving at is the guys who turn pro out of junior, play some time in (usually) the lower level leagues, run out of chances and get cut, THEN decide to go the university routewhen they are well into their 20s. In Danton's case, it's ridiculous that he'd be even allowed to play at his age. Excusing the felony part to let him get his education, well, that's up to the school.
On a slightly related topic to that which Damien mentions here, I felt the same way about the NHLers suddenly being included in the Olympic hockey tourney in 98. Up to that point it was unknowns, has-beens, and never-weres who made up the teams. Gone are the days of the Todd Hlushkos and JF Jomphes getting to shine as "stars" of Canadian hockey for two weeks of their lives.

[J. Colvin]

I can't believe this column! You totally blur the issues. The fact that SMU has allowed Danton to play is clearly absurd - but do not start dragging the CIS through the mud because of this stupid decision.

Your contention that because a talented hockey player makes a decision to play in the CHL he should in some way be denied the opportunity to become a student athelete is quite simply wrong.

I spent 4 wonderful years in the CIS and played with so many bright young men (and for the record - a 20 year old is no grizzled veteran) that excelled in both athletics and academics. Cudos to any CHL player that can combine such an intense junior hockey schedule and still strive to get an education.

The Danton decision is nothing short of foolish - but let me assure you the CIS has bred alot of quality people with the experience afforded at these schools.

Please don't taint what is a amazing opportunity for kids to obtain an education while learning valuable lessons on their paths to becoming adults.

Thanks.

[Tim C]

For the previous commenter on Joel Ward, not John, for the record, Joel Ward played at UPEI, not UNB. See we take it very seriously in the East. Most of us all the know the rule. We need not guess Damien. You lose a year of CIS eligibility for every year you played pro, any level of pro. Nor does it have to be a full year, only what constitutes a year, ....precious little. Also for the record Damien, St Mary's is not the first. I recall an outstanding goalie about thirty years ago by the name of Mike....last name escapes me now, played for Kingston Canadians at the time, made his way up to Boston Bruins and was starting. Next I knew he was in an OUA university for his one eligible year. Seems to me they went all the way to the Canadian Championships too. Another thing about the CIS level of hockey Damien, it is all about being prepared. There are plenty of examples of Tier II junior players every bit as good as Maj Jr Grads out there, Dalhousie has a guy that last played Jr B! and the UPEI captain played both in his last year of junior. You see in their second year, it no longer matters where you played. It just doesn't factor in anymore. Noone is afraid of you in the CIS. That is what makes it great.

[el]

Mr. Cox obviously does not have children playing major junior hockey- unlike his perception- most parents with any experience realize the NHL is a longshot. While playing major junior hockey these young men earn scholarship money towards their lives after hockey. If they play one minute of professional hockey they lose these acrued funds, they also are not entitled to them if they do not attend a recognized post secondary program, be it college or university. He probably could easily check these facts if he contacted the CHL. Playing major junior hockey is like having a full-time jobs, causing some players to take a decreased course load at both the secondary and post secondary level- delaying enrollment into college or university until 19-21 years of age. Using Mr. Cox's logic these players should be deemed ineligible for a post sedondary education that includes varsity sport- I guess non-athlete students who take a hump year or time off to travel or work prior to enrolling in post secondary education should also be excluded. The Mike Danton situation will now probably be debated until the project is over- he graduates or finishes his elegibility and leaves school without a degree, but Mr. Cox needs to check the rules regarding CIS athletes a little more carefully before he speaks.

[Lisa]

You're kidding, right Damien? Did I really just read an article about how old the St. Mary's hockey team is that Danton is joining? Wow, that's some facinating work! Maybe next time you could spend your time researching and exploring the real issues at hand such as ex-cons joining University hockey teams, FROST, and maybe even how the boy's on the St. Mary's hockey team even feel about this all...? I just find it very disappointing that you name drop boy's on the St. Mary's hockey team and lump them into an article with Danton the way you did! Not cool, stick to the real issues here!

[Allen Ford]

"Most of the rest of the roster ranges between 22 and 24 years of age"

Damien, I think you just described the rosters of every team in any sport in the CIS.

[Andy Culligan]

I agree with a suggestion that Mr. Danton should have to complete a successful academic term, perhaps with a full course load, to prove himself before he's allowed to step onto the ice at SMU. It would be interesting to see if he goes on the ice before he enters an actual classroom.

However, Mr. Cox does an awful lot of CIS students and athletes a great disservice in his double rant. The Major junior players deserve great credit for being able to continue their full time and part time university course loads while playing Major junior hockey with its time and travel commitments! There are a great number of CIS recruits beginning their university careers at the age of 20 or 21 depending on birthdates which doesn't seem disgraceful to me at all. Many of these players "not good enough to play pro" according to Mr. Cox, are showing great wisdom by taking care of their academics before giving NHL scouts a second chance and before giving pro hockey one last chance. The NHL has missed many excellent pro prospects going back to the days of Mike Ridley who was playing CIS and they continue to do so every year.

I would like Mr. Cox to compare the academic success rate of the CIS program to the NHL success rate of Major junior hockey before he continues his misguided rants about the dirty secrets of CIS hockey.

[Colin]

Damien, I can live with your concern over Danton playing university hockey but you obviously are many years removed from CIS hockey, IF you ever covered it. Check out all the conferences, major junior hockey players dominate the lineups. You should also pay attention to what these university-athletes are bringing to area communities. Check out their GPAs, especially schools with high academic standards. I know many former CIS players and their university education has defined who they have become. Great careers and contributors! Must have been a slow day in the newsroom!

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[victor]

I don't agree with your argument about CIS letting former junior players playing. If they choose to go to university after trying to make it to the NHL then that is commendable. When in university they should be eligible to participate in all school acitivities including varsity hockey. They should not be judged ineligible because they played a high level of hockey before school. For those who don't make it, there is intermural hockey. If someone who does not make major junior hockey and wants to use university as a stepping stone to the pros they should be able to at least compete with the guys who did not make it anyway. I think that is completely fair. That is the hard road as you write in your January 13th column yes?
As for Danton, I don't know. In one sense you are right and in one sense he has paid his debt and regardless of whether he lied to the parole board or not I was not there, nor were you, so I have to take the board's word for it. He played pro hockey but not for a long time. He doesn't anymore and provided his grades are above the threshold legitimately I think perhaps he should be ok to play as well. I don't think it is a cut and dry as you suggest.

[O.Boy]

Ok, now 2 Toroonto/Ontario sports writers flapping their yaps about Danton playing CIS hockey, about his age, about 18 year olds yada yada.

Mr. Cox look around you, look west , north, south , get out of Torronna, the CIS is full of older, ex semi-pro, ex JR players.

Great way to make a living though, write needless, and narrow minded sports columns from the pedastal atop the CN tower in the city at the centre of the universe.

[John Richardson]

Damien, you probably should have stuck to the Danton issue. You're out of your league when it comes to CIS hockey----calling it a "dirty little secret" is both ignorant and offensive. (In the interests of full disclosure, I have two sons who play football at Acadia and receive scholarship money so I know a little about student-athletes).

The CHL put an educational programme in place a number of years ago so that players finished with their major junior careers could pursue a university education and not left to fend for themselves as was the case when the Neanderthals ran the teams. . Back then a kid would finish major junior and have neither a hockey career or a high school education. I'm sure we don't want to go back there.

I talked to a hockey player at Acadia a couple of years ago. He was a better than average OHLer but his skating was questionable so he was never drafted. He told me that between the money he received from the OHL and what the school gave him , he pretty much had all his expenses covered. Sorry, but I can't see anything wrong with that. Oh, and I should also mention that a lot of schools teams are made up of ex Tier Two and Junior B players--they're not all from the big bad CHL. The AUS teams recruit very aggressively--in all sports.

The problem is that if you're playing only high school hockey, you're so far down the skill set ladder that you probably couldn't crack a GTHL AA hockey team. I can't think of a university anywhere in North America would want a team made up of these students. That's why universities have intramural leagues. .

[atung]

Do the CIS rules stipulate in which years ineligibility must be served? If not, then let Mike Danton sit out his first 2 years and, in his third year at University, if he lasts that long, well then...good luck to him.

[Who's Kidding Who]

I fail to see why you want to tar all players with the same brush. You slight the achievements of those ex CHL players currently on the St. Mary's squad yet this is exactly how the CHL markets itself; the "Best of Both World's", to its prospects and players. i.e. 8 years of hockey (4 yrs. Major Junior and 4 yrs. CIS) with a degree. By attending schools outside of Ontario many of these ex-Major Junior players are able to augment their education package money from their OHL team in order to attend school on what in essence is a full scholarship. Sorry it doesn't meet your sniff test and that you view these players as guys who "couldn't make it".

[Mike]

Damien you are close minded idiot! Did you just figure out that CIS players, are ex CHL players? Who do you think you are? Passing judgement on these players!!
Mike Danton is a dummy and only knows to play hockey, let him play in the CIS and they will certainly be keeping an eye on him. I am sure you have a nipple on the top of your head!

Mike

[Barry Wilson]

Damien your comments on the CIS are way offside. The CIS is an excellent league filled with ex major junior and ex tier 2 players. This is very competitive hockey and only the best players should make it, Steve Rucchin was 18 years old with no major junior or tier2 and walked on to make the Western Mustangs and had a long NHL career, this prpobably would not have happened if the CIS was filled with ex highschool and midget players. Also take a look NCAA division 1 rosters there are plenty of 23 and 24 year olds playing down there.

[Snacker]

I agree 100% Damien. CIS hockey is a joke. Danton should not be allowed to play in this league of 2nd chances. My eyes were opened to this when I was 19 and trying to crack a CIS lineup. The coach informed me that at best, as a rookie, I might be able to be the 8th or 9th defenseman due to 'veterans' who had their spots. There was no way that as a 19 year old who was a good to very good tier 2 junior player, that I was going to be able to match-up against guys who were 23-24, sometimes 26-27 who had played 4 years of major junior and even skated at NHL camps and toiled in the minors for periods of time. It doesn't make sense to let these guys keep playing hockey in University...they should be playing in senior leagues and giving younger, university aged players a chance. Half the time these guys barely even went to class and didn't do much academically at all, other than cash in on the $ they received to go to university through playing major junior. The whole CIS hockey system is a joke and this event just underlines that sentiment completely.

[John Richardson]

To Snacker

Sounds like someone is really bitter about not being good enough to play Major Junior. The point is, they played four years of major junior, weren't drafted and at age 20, after their last year of eligibility, decided to pursue their education. Most of them have never skated in NHL camps or played in the minors. That's why the CHL put their education programme in place.

And why should Tier 2 players get preferential treatment over CHL players who just happen to be a couple of years older? Seriously, if you're 19 and can't compete against 22 and 23 year olds, you should probably hang 'em up--or, as I suggested in an earlier post, sign up for intramural sports.

How many 19 year old rookies do you think are starters on CIS football teams?

[Joe]

Snacker,
Dont belittle the CIS system becasue you just wern't good enough. No one wants to give out scholarship money to an average tier-two player.
The elite athlete from Major Junior deserves this opportuntiy like anyone else. The CHL / CIS scenario augment each other well and it works to strenghten the CHL product.

[Brian]

Damien, I really found your take on CIU eligibility interesting. Years ago, I tried out for the Univesity of Waterloo hockey team as a 18 year old after playing high school hockey and AAA hockey. My interest was purely to keep playing competitive hockey and represent the school. I expected to face stiff competition from similar players and some that failed to excel in Junior. What I found was that most of the tryouts were at least 2-3 years older than me and had finished playing major Junior. I was way over my head, especially physically. What I felt then and feel now is that CIU athletes should be true CIU students that are there first for school and then for the althletics. If they are mainly using the athletic programs to try and kick start or restart professional aspirations it starts to resemble the realities of American University athletics.

[John Richardson]

Brian

Why would you presume that ex junior hockey players are attending university solely for the athletics as opposed to school? Did you take a poll? How about this generalization: most non-student athletes go to university for the partying, not the academics.

They are going to university AND they also get to play competitive hockey. At this point in their lives, most of them are under no illusion that they're going to have a professional career. Trust me, after playing three or four years of CHL hockey and not getting drafted, they've had their reality check already.

Once again, if only you played high school and AAA hockey, there's a reason you didn't make the team--you weren't good enough.

[Snacker]

To Joe and John Richardson...I'm not bitter at all about it, but you're crazy to think that a good tier 2 player who's 19 can battle physically against 25 year olds who played 5 extra years of pro hockey. There were definitely several guys who attended NHL camps and toiled in the ECHL and other American minor leagues for years when I tried out, while I actually qualified as a student of the university with a full course load. These other characters often took only 3 courses (as opposed to 5 for me) and weren't serious about their schooling in the least and were there for a free ride and the continuation of their fleeting hockey dreams. This Danton thing is the icing on the cake as this type of thing is not uncommon. Real student athletes getting pushed aside for the betterment of the hockey program. The coach would not even look at me in favour of one of his veterans and thus, I quit the game in the end. Politics over the game, everytime. This happens often in our game and is not the first time, nor the last. Does this mean that any NHLer can keep playing in CIS after their career so they can keep up with their schooling? Where do you draw the line. I'd say a 29 year old former NHLer, ex-con probably should be playing with the average aged university player (these days 17-23, would be about average). How can you expect a 17-18 year old to compete with a grown man. Give your heads a shake people.

[Snacker]

So I guess it's right to quit on a kid who's 18-19, who's not fully developed to allow a bunch of washed up goons who've been toiling in the minors until they're 25, 26 to have a spot on a team. Better yet, they should be handing spots to 29 year old ex-cons who used to play in the show before some kid who actually works hard on and off the ice and represents his school both on and off the ice? This is a bad precedent to set is my point...