Pointless Threats

Bob Young is a rich man used to getting his way. That he apparently won't when it comes to the location of a new stadium in Hamilton, a building that would theoretically house his perenially lousy Tiger-Cats, has to be really bugging him.

After all, it wasn't that long ago that Young was touted as a civic hero for buying the Cats out of insolvency, an Ancaster boy who said he was realizing a dream by buying the football club he grew up loving.

Well, the love affair ended a while ago. Young has done a lamentable job of bringing winning football back to Hamilton - the team hasn't been to the Grey Cup since 1999 - and his attempt this week to try and scare Hamilton city council to put the stadium designed for the 2015 Pan-Am Games at his desired location has apparently fallen on deaf ears.

Hard to say who is right in this debate. As a born and bred Hamiltonian, I have seen the downtown core deteriorate drastically over the past 40 years, nothing like my youth when we'd go ride the classic elevator at the Right House near Gore Park just for fun.  The West Hamilton bay location where city fathers would like the stadium to go has slowly improved over the past 20 years, but it's not easy to get to. They want it there in hope that it might, maybe, help revitalize the downtown core. Look around, and it's happened that way in more than a few North American cities.

Young, meanwhile, couldn't care less about downtown revitalization. He wants the stadium on the east mountain, in the burbs, really, where new highways have created access and visibility. That makes some sense, too. His frustration with the process is understandable in a city where politics have created all kinds of development issues.

But this was always going to be a negotiation, and while Young can huff and puff, his football team supplies nine dates a year out of 365 days, although if he could organize a team capable of making the playoffs he might manage another one or two. That might make him the main tenant, but running a money-losing team that usually loses more than it wins does not exactly give him a big hammer to wield. That tiny Regina has built a strong team on community ownership during the same period where Richie Rich has turned the Cats into a consistent cellar dwellar doesn't exactly speak to his expertise.

So Young threatens to what, move the team? To where, exactly. Not Burlington. Ottawa? They're slated for expansion, and nobody really knows if even that will happen. Then there's Quebec City and Moncton and a bunch of other places, and we're supposed to believe a CFL team is going to abandon southern Ontario and Hamilton, and the new stadium that will apparently be built one way or another, for another Canadian city where no stadium exists? C'mon. 

Young may not like the West Hamilton location but he undoubtedly doesn't like where Ivor Wynne is, either. Maybe he knows better, but maybe he doesn't. Maybe he knows how to run a CFL team - he's been botching the job on this one since 2004 - and maybe he doesn't.

But apparently he isn't likely to get his way on this stadium. If he doesn't want to be part of the Tiger-Cats future, he can sell the team. Or try to. But moving it? Not a chance. Teams fold in the CFL and sometimes come back, but they don't move. No viable markets, you see. So Young should swallow his pride and ego, cut his best deal or get out. Empty threats are a waste of everyone's time.

If he does decide to conclude his ownership of the team, it's not exactly like a golden era in Hamilton football will come to a close.

Comments

[Anton Mesrobian]

If a team could be successful in Quebec City wouldn't there already be one there? I find it hard to believe that an owner who bought the team for sentimental reasons would pull up stakes and move it. He's apparently been living in South Carolina too long if he thinks it wise to play chicken with a team that has been in Hamilton for 141 years. The "caretaker" should find a way to make it work in the city where the team belongs.

[Janet Rymal]

Thank you. It's pretty refreshing to see a sports guy look further than the 'storied past' and nostalgia that permeates the opinions of many Ti-Cat fans and other sports types. This was not supposed to be a story about the Cats. It's about the PanAm Games and an historically undeveloped, abused and polluted part of a major city. This is a a City of Hamilton (read taxpayers) issue and not about ticket sales, naming rights, and concessions for a CFL team. The Pan Am Games will be the impetus to start the ball rolling on Hamilton being more than smokestacks along the highway to Toronto or the Falls. Of course, its also about sports - the Pan Am kind, not the football kind.

Besides, with a 15000 seat stadium, maybe the TiCats will sell out games more often than just the Home Labour Day Classic.

[John Richardson]

Damien,

I too was born in Hamilton and despite Bob Young's inadequacies as the Cats owner, one thing is also certain. When it comes to any issue regarding Hamilton and urban design and development ,you can be guaranteed that Hamilton City Council will screw it up.

It's been their modus operandi since the so called urban planners carpet bombed the downtown core in the late 60's and early 70's. .

Personally, I like the idea of a stadium near Confederation Park although I admit The Burlington Tiger-Cats has a nice ring to it.

[Chris]

Thanks, Damien. Generally, I must admit that I don't often see eye-to-eye with your viewpoints. But, as a fellow born and bred Hamiltonian (who bleeds Black and Gold), I think you're bang on.

I really hope that others in the Toronto media help the Tiger Cats see the opportunity in an urban stadium. Personally, I think this could be fantastic for the team and for the city. It just might take a bit of patience.

Similar to the patience shown by the hardened fans -- who showed up 24,000 strong to see the 1-4 Cats take on the 1-4 Bombers last Saturday. If there's a positive in the years of losing, it's that it's galvanized the fanbase. Scared some off, for sure, but now even a .500 team is met with roaring ovations.

[Mark]

Anyone in Hamilton want to front the money to own the team? Didn't think so. I love how everyone likes to tell owners of things how to run their organizations. It is really easy to spend other people's money or tell them how to spend it. If you think you can run the team better, go and buy it then.

[Richard Tyler]

It is kind of sad how proponants of giving Young a blank cheque keep hurling absurdities in an attempt to bolster their cause. Burlington has already said they would put no municipal dollars into a stadium, but still that move gets trotted out every eight minutes. Yesterday East Mountain fans were insisting that Hamilton would never get an NHL franchise if Young didn't get his way. This after the NHL has repeatedly demonstrated that it wouldn't cross the street to spit in Hamilton's hair. I guess if the facts aren't on your side, may as well go with the fiction.

[Wade T.]

Excuse me Damian, but you are talking about a Hamilton CFL franchise that has gone through how many owners? In a Fan 590 interview Young stated the team has been bankrupt six times in the past 35 years. No matter how you spin it, Hamilton is not a viable CFL market as it is currently constituted.

Also, get your facts straight, the fact is Young has worked with city council and in fact was willing to compromise on a site that wasn't his first choice and it was city council who get heavy handed.

No it appears to me that Young's statements aren't threats but statement of facts. No businessman is going to individually run a consistently money losing venture. Eventually there has to be a reason to own the team based on economics. Hamilton city council should just get over itself and realize Hamilton needs the Tiger-Cats more than Young needs them in Hamilton.

Too me the CFL should pounce on this situation and move the team immediately. Move it back to Ottawa, move it to Quebec City, whatever. The fact is Hamilton is positioned to be a money loser for a long-time and no league should fight to keep a team like that around.

[Anton Mesrobian]

Wade T... the Ticats were part of the Pan Am bid process and didn't voice any concerns at the time the bid was approved. The City spent 8 million dollars of tax payer's money acquiring the lands for the stadium before any hint of dissatisfaction from the Cats. Bob Young was quoted as saying "...I don't care where the (expletive deleted) stadium goes as long as we build it in Hamilton."

So what changed? The Mayor has been consistent and stuck to the Pan Am bid plan... the Cats have waffled, changed their mind, and come up with grandiose plans for this soccer team, that parking lot and the other thing. I'm a huge Cats fan... season tickets for over 20 years now, but I don't like the way Bob Young has handled this. A case of "closing the barn door after the horse has bolted" if ever there was one...

[Dave]

Damien is right on here. Call them facts or call them threats, a suburban stadium does not meet any of the city building criteria that council factored in to make this decision. I don't begrudge Young for trying to get the best deal, but he is a small retail operation that is subsidized heavily by the community, and he is asking for 60 million of the city's money. As for them playing in Burlington as mentioned below by Janet, that will never happen. Burlington City council is too fiscally responsible to take that bait. Now that Hamilton has rejected a risky public-private partnership, Council is criticized for it. Tyler's criticism is not valid not to mention contradictory. If Ham. isn't a viable market, why should City council feel the 'need' to continue to subsidize them. You can't have it both ways.

[TS]

Wow,

First sane article on this topic in months! Go Damien!

[Bryan]

He may only be supplying 9 days out of 365, but he is also putting in $20 million of his own cash. That gets him one vote out of 3. As mentioned above, if the City of Hamilton wants the team and is willing to pony up the dough to buy it (and the $20 million extra for the stadium) I am sure they would find a willing seller.

[Tom Riddell]

Sorry to Disagree but Bob Needs Fans in the seats
Hamilton has 20,000 Core fans Tops that come to games.
He needs make Team more Regional to that

Leaving Hamilton for Burlington is only way he dose that .

[Pigskin Pete]

Spoken like a true Torontonian. If the team was doing better, he would have more say? How are the Jays and Leafs doing? Bobs plan was to do the unthinkable. Actually have a stadium that people want to go to for a football game with easy access and parking. Have you ever been to Ivor Wynne? It's a nightmare to get to even when there were very few in attendance.

The city's plan for the West Harbour location is foolish and will be a single use waste of taxpayer's money. The upcoming municipal election will shed some light on the issue and the people's voice will be heard.

Teams never move? No markets available? Very inside the box thinking. We CFL fanslove it when non CFL fans feel they need to comment on CFL related matters without really knowing the details.

[nick]

Thanks Damon, for the heart felt story. People in Hamilton feel the same as you, Move the team, giggle, giggle.

Perhaps you can tell me right or wrong. Solution for Mr. Young's football foul ups, beeps, and blunders. FIRE Mitchell, he has no vision, no ideas and no plan. A spoiled brat with a golden spoon. What has he done for the cats. Oh yea, sorry i forgot, raise ticket prices, and concession for still the same basement dung. Just like his dad, Who was great for amatuer sports, but made a train wreck when he was commissioner of the once great CFL.

How about this, Hire PIN BALL CLEMONS as prez. he's got Obie there. good combo. Clemons is highly repected in the CFL ranks, as well in any comunity. When Clemons speaks, people enjoy listening to him. He is friendly, personable ETC. he can mix with all walks of life. He can also come up with ideas that can make this west harbour stadium the envy of the league. Not a nope nadda, because you won't buy me the candy i wanted from the candy store.

Just a thought.
At least you know about the hamilton north end and the possiblity of waking up a sleeping giant again.

cheers
Nick

[Matt B]

The west harbour stadium is by far the best option for Hamilton. I say this as an urbanist, not as a football fan, which I think provokes a more a honest an answer to this problem. The best stadiums succeed when they are near other things: restaurants, bars, amenities, etc. Those cannot be achieved in the East Mtn suburbs. Look at the Sens' arena in Ottawa: it is so far away from the density of people that it loses out on thousands of fans each game. It takes almost an hour from downtown Ottawa to get there on the bus.

You need to be able to walk up r take transit to the stadium, not just drive to it. Would the SkyDome have been better off in North York? How about BMO Field for TFC: put that at Downsview Park? No, you put a stadium where people can get to by a number of modes of transportation. TiCat fans might balk at this cut city council made the right decision and kept themselves in a good position to keep negotiating.

[walleyedgoalie]

Born and raised in Dundas I used to take the HSR to Jackson Square all the time. I was elated when the city built Copps and devastated every time they did not get a NHL team.
I was elated when Ian Sutter kick the field goal in 72 with 14 seconds left in the grey cup. I was there sitting in what is now Box D tickets. Again elated to hear that a new stadium was comming and now this...

De J'ai Vu...

[True Hamiltonian]

We must recognize that this is much more than the stadium we're talking about.

It's the Triangle of Urban Sprawl that the same players in Hamilton have been plotting for two decades. The Red Hill Expressway, East Mountain Expansion, and the Aerotropolis Project. Far from a neglected downtown core, this axis of greed opens up the lands south of the escarpment to unsustainable sprawl at the expense of the municipality / existing communities.

Hopefully the West Harbour decision has setback that scheme, but even more importantly will garner attention to the hornet's nest of obvious links controlling Hamilton's agenda.

Ironically, two of Hamilton's 'heroes' - Ron Foxcroft and David Braley - also sports personalities - don't even live in Hamilton. Yet, now their considerable interests and influence will receive fresh scrutiny.

[dsssJohnny Bodsih]

Well Damion, what you don't know is surprising, being as you were born and raised in Hamilton, now you are much to far removed to make any sense. Just chomping at the bit with little or no real knowledge of what is really going.

With all do respect to you and your opinions isn't it an owners right to try and make money isn't that what he is in business for? Isn't that what business is all about? You tell me, your the expert. Bob Young has spent millions trying to produce a winner. After all, he bought a team that was totally bankrupt and had an absolutely dismal win loss record. Much like the Argos of the late 50's and sixties what was it 32 years without a Grey Cup, or the Toronto Maple Leafs gee when did they last win a championship 1967 per chance.

Bob Young's inexperience in the beginning cost him, and he admitted it and tried again and again. Over a period a period of time he has become a little smarter and has hired some quality players and a smart general manager who knows what he is doing. Lets see how that plays out.

Perhaps if you had any brains about you, you would know that the Tiger Cats offered up many millions of dollars to expand the proposed stadium, and offered to help pay for a Velodrome and a amphitheatre (much like Ontario place has) and to top that off pay the operating costs of a new stadium for 10 years. How's that for putting out an effort.

And to be honest, and to the point, your article was more than a waste of time both for you the author and for your legion of fans. Before giving an opionion make sure you know all or most of the facts. But on your behalf, it got some people's dander up, including mine.

[TS]

Re. Pigskin Pete comments..

Give me a break. You sound like a bailout democrat. The East Mountain plan was corporate welfare plain and simple. Hamilton burns the whole future fund on a stadium that only Young makes money from, and is out in the middle of the field where only 1/2 the city would have decent access to, and you think that was the superior choice? Ticats have shoved so much BS down your throat were going to have to put you out to pasture.

Anyone who's gone to an FC game knows that the GO trains are packed before and after (and TO isn't such a dream to drive into either). West Harbour is totally viable and will find a CFL and a soccer team with our without Young.

[Geoff Reynolds]

I LOVE the idea of a downtown stadium, and near the water with possible condo development...sign me up for 4 season tickets and a 2 bedroom unit with a parking space please. I'm all in. If no Mr. Young maybe the Katz Group will saave the deal!

[jtms]

I thought Young preferred the Confederation Park site and it was the city that came along with the Mountain site as a compromise - which they then backed out of. I hear of "professional" studies saying the harbour is the least viable - shouldn't this be taken to an arbitrator who actually has experience locating viable stadium sites. I just remember how Copps was supposed to re-vitalize the city core along with bringing in an NHL franchise - this is what the politicians of that day promised and look how well that has worked out.

[Rick Grace]

Oh come on Cox.
Quebec City isn't a viable option?
Are you kidding me?
Its probably the best football city in Canada.
CFL needs to get away from Hamilton.
Its a staid old deteriorating town.
We need new vibrant cities like Quebec, Moncton, Halifax, and Saskatoon in the league.
If Hamilton doesn't want the team, then Young does have options.
YOu guys in the media can't see that becasue you know squat about the CFL and football in this country.

[Guelphdad]

"Well Damion, what you don't know is surprising, being as you were born and raised in Hamilton, now you are much to far removed to make any sense. Just chomping at the bit with little or no real knowledge of what is really going."

So Johnny, are you saying you know for a fact that Damien doesn't live in the Hamilton area or you just can't imagine that someone could write for a Toronto paper and live somewhere else?

[Serge Defoy]

It remember me when Marcel Aubut said Nordiques would move if we did not have a new stadium ;-) Exactly the same thing... Most people did not belive it could happend and the municipal council acted like Hamilton did last night, and we lost them! Today, it is the opposit, our new municipal council is completely open to a new NHL hockey team back and have the approval of the provincial government and federal too approuved and expect to put some money,,, Project will be on the table within few day.

For football, I found an article written in April 2009 in Le Soleil from a jounalist saying Quebec City mayor and team were looking to use the place left by horse racing to bring a soccer and NFL football team in Quebec City.

Already with Rouge et Or, we have an average attency of over 13,000 even over 15,000 by match for University football in a stade made for a bit more than 12,000... So a team like Cats would be welcome and would make money here!

We already have all that is needed to make them our beloved team... And for the french side of the thing, don't worry, players of Nordiques were not all speaking french, players of our baseball team come from every where in America like players of Rouge et Or... Come on! At least 2 players of Ticats come from Laval (Quebec) and doen't the coach have a french name? And the player that made a joke to a journalist sooner,,, "I don't know anything else even is I speak french!" Funny no?

So keep on rocking Hamilton, I like you like that! And welcome Ticats... We won't even change your name for chats lol

[samthemacman]

You sir appear to be as arrogant as Hamilton's mayor and his council.

No, you can bet the way Young feels, he will move the team, and deservedly so. You can kiss the legacy of the TiCats good bye and it will be a team in Quebec or Moncton that will get the team.

The CFL Commish supports Young and not the city council. If Cohon supports Young, so will the other owners. You can bet that the team will move. It may have not happened before, but it will now, and besides, the team from Baltimore moved to Montreal and became the Als, so there is a precedent already in place.

So, as a lifetime CFL fan, I look forward to seeing the "Tigres du Quebec" play my beloved Als 2012, while the mayor and council of the city of Hamilton deal with no team, and no revitalized downtown. Their agenda was a no-go to begin with. What they propose to do will not work and this will blow up in their collective faces.

Ironic isn't it. The City of Hamilton, the home of the Canadian Football Hall of Fame, without the beloved TiCats!

Shame on the city of Hamilton. Mr. Young, put your plan in place and move the team, and break the lease if you have to, and move the team for the 2011 season!
Hamilton is such a loser city.