Puzzling Numbers

Used to be Blue Jays fans, and the organization, would look fondly back upon the championship years of the early 1990s when packed houses of 50,000 or more were all but guaranteed every night.

These days, the good old days that spawn fond memories seem to be 2007 and 2008, at least from a business standpoint. Average attendance of 29,000-plus seemed to indicate local interest was on the uptick.

Now, it doesn't seem that way.

With a shocking attendance figure of 10,658 from Thursday night, the Jays average attendance for this season has dipped a little further to around the 20,700 mark, a stunning 30 per cent drop over the past three seasons. The last time attendance was this low was way back in 2002 when the team average 20,208 per game.

Baseball in general, of course, is down, and has been for two years. This year it appears the overall figure will reflect a league-wide drop in attendance of about seven per cent, while, the Jays will be down about 10 per cent from last year.

Not good.

The confusing part is that with Paul Beeston back in charge, the disliked J.P. Ricciardi gone, a local boy running the front office and an appealing youth movement, it was expected this would the year GTA baseball fans began to feel more enthusiastic about the team.

Instead, attendance suggests the Jays are less popular now than they were last year, and definitely from three or four years ago.

'Tis a puzzlement.

Wtih Jose Bautista swatting homers at a major league-leading pace, an impressive young pitching staff featuring Brandon Morrow and some exciting prospects on the way, one might have thought there was an opportunity at hand for the Jays to recover some lost ground, not lose more. Generally speaking, local media types have approved of the direction of the team, some suggesting this has been nearly a triumphant season despite a record just about .500. Moreover, its not like any of the other pro teams in town are producing championship-quality teams.

So what's the reason behind the drop? Well, the stadium, of course. The Rogers TV issues haven't helped. Having a caretaker manager doesn't exactly get the masses excited. And, as has been the case for a long, long time, no meaningful games in August, let alone September, kills interest. Playing in the tough American League East continues to be an issue, although another competitive season from low payroll Tampa Bay is gradually taking away the division in which the Jays play as a meaningful excuse.

The season began with some shockingly low numbers, but then there was some recovery. Now, it seems the season may end on a low, which has to leave the Jays thoroughly puzzled as to what it will take - if anything - to bring the people back.

Comments

[Bob]

A couple of reasons for declining attendance that are really underestimated....traffic into the downtown core is now a complete nightmare,and parking scarcer andmore expensive than ever....after 35 years it's no longer worth the effort.
Also, sat in the 500 level a few weeks ago and there were virtually no concession stands open....a 2 inning wait for a $10 beer. Mr.Beeston, you've had a good track record but you're woefully out of touch with how Rogers Centre is now being operated on a day-to-day basis. Here's a thought....why not sit in the stands for a game and sample first hand the lousy food and service and poorly trained staff ?

[RJ]

@ Ray b. You cannot bring in snacks to the Rogers Centre. Unless you sneak them in. They confiscate or make you drink/eat outside before entering.

@ People who wonder why we pay for leaf tickets instead of baseball tickets. Leafs - 41 home games. Jays - 82 home games. Cost matters, games matter more. I see the Habs once a month maybe, I get the Phoenix Coyotes once a year. Yes you get the Yanks but you also get the Royals 4 nights in a row. Hockey is fast and exciting, baseball is slow and lazy. Vernon Wells makes 20 million a year during the game I saw he made $121,951.22 and had 1 hit out of four and made no plays in the outfield. Snider made 3 in RF and Lewis made 0 as well. What a ripoff!

[j-rock]

What will it take to get fans back in the seats? Win. It's as simple as that. For better or for worse, and let's face it, it's mostly for the worse, this is a hockey town. I grew up with the Jays and used to go to games back at Exhibition stadium when Bobby Cox was managing and Cito was still the batting coach. I loved watching those teams in the 80s develop and become more competitive, and I was thrilled when they won the 2 World Series'. For a lot of younger fans though, that's ancient history. Unlike the hapless Leafs, the Jays can't rely on people just showing up despite never winning. Rogers needs to spend the money to make the Jays competitive in what is EASILY the toughest division in baseball. I'm a Rogers customer, and based on my monthly phone, mobile and cable bills, I know they've got the money.

That said, I enjoyed this season more than almost any other since the strike. Anthopolous and Cito have got these guys on the right track. In another year or two, with a couple of minor additions, the Jays could very realistically compete for the wildcard, and maybe even more. I look forward to the rebirth of baseball in this city, and for the first time in well over a decade, I feel optimistic that the seeds have been planted.

[Jeff]

Why?

Because we all HATE Rogers, everything they represent, and how they screw all of their customers and have ruined the baseball experience in this town.

I purchase "In The Action Seats", and yet they treat me like i'm a nuisance. I go to events in US markets, and they treat my like a VIP.

Beeston seems like a good guy, but i could have fixed this already. They simply dont care enough or show any passion.

[Diego Mendez]

I've actually been to more games this year (about seven) that I had in the last few. I guess my enthusiam over the team isn't shared. I'm also pretty excited about what this guys might do in the next couple of years.

With the roof open, the Skydome is an okay place. I had been living in Washington D.C. and got to see games in the new stadium there as well as Bmore. Great stadiums - but no atmosphere at the Orioles games and the Nats games aren't all that either. So I'd argue it's the fans, not the building which creates the atmosphere.

There are too maby obstacles in Toronto: the hassle of getting to the game, dealing with traffic, parking, paying for over-priced food and drinks, and being at the ballpark for an average of three hours a game. I sit in the 500s but it would be nice to have cheaper tickets once in a while in the first two levels.

[Mark]

Some parting shots:

1. Insanity- doing the same thing over & over again expecting a different result- well, the Blue Jays have been doing this to their fans for decadeS now. Until the Jays are earning their salary by earning post-season contention on the final days, I will not be paying to watch a game at RogersOne Centre. I still watch but only if there's not sexy Airplane racing on RSO.

2. Team needs to bleed tradition back into itself- get rid of the stupid new logos & black unis (what is this? 1995 hip?). Even the baby blue throwbacks are dumb. Wear the classic whites with pride, the sweet lettering, update the old logo with the new bird if you must- but the 80s Jays were fun because it bugged other franchises to have to lose to them. Lets be that franchise again. Leaders, not followers.

3. Gut the Rogers Centre & insert a new baseball configuration (pipe dream I know lol). Make the place more of a baseball park with a roof than a subway station with a field. Heck, blow out some of the concrete if you can & air the place out (like Safeco)

[Arhtur Bailey]

It is all about meaningful games. It is ridiculous that a 30 team professional league only allows 8 teams into the playoffs, where 3 other 30 team leagues allow 16 teams.

The Jays would be a contender EVERY year, and even if they never made it out of the first round, the fans would still be there. But since there is no chance of them making the playoffs, the fans don't care.

[B. M.]

The media just refuses to acknowledge the root cause - the Jays typical demographic now mainly lives OUTSIDE the city. Toronto has ZERO cultural connections to baseball anymore. Hence the great TV numbers.
.
It's going to take alot more than a few games above .500 for me to give up HD 7.1 surround & cold free beer for mind-numbing traffic congestion, a sterile stadium, terrible customer service, & insane concession prices.
.
Nope....think I'll stay home and watch on TV.

[2nd Guess]

Well, this thread has deteriorated in a hurry.

Rogersblows, you ARE aware that Ted Rogers passed away 2 years ago?

kev, I DID the research (to confirm what I already knew): the Expos had a major-league-best record of 74-40 when the 1994 season was called off, but the Blue Jays were 55-60 -- 3rd place in the division, 16 games behind the leading Yankees and 12 games from the wild card. I'm an Expos fan who remains bitter to this day, but I wouldn't give the time of day to a conspiracy theory as far-fetched as MLB shutting down operations to prevent an all-Canadian World Series.

To the other alleged baseball fans (some of whom don't even bother to hide their disdain for the game) who think doubling the number of playoff teams will be a cure-all for the Jays: using the excuse that it's what hockey and basketball do doesn't wash. Baseball teams play every day, and there should be a greater reward for surviving a 162-game schedule in 1st place (or almost) than being placed on more-or-less equal footing with mediocre 7th- and 8th-place teams. With all the off-days and shortening of starting rotations, even the current format lends itself to skewed results in the postseason -- a 4-round playoff would be even worse.

Switching leagues? First off, the Jays bean counters probably like being in the same division as Boston and New York, which draw markedly increased crowds 18 times a year. 2nd, nobody in the National League is offering to trade places -- a prerequisite, wouldn't you think? And it may be fashionable (and defeatist) to cry about the impossibility of competing with the Yankees and Red Sox, but the Rays are showing it can be done.

Finally, there is some legitimacy to claims that the "SABR-fication" of baseball has created a much duller product over the last 15 years. Having grown up in a National League city -- did I mention being an Expos fan? -- I recall how a team of jackrabbits and gap hitters can create excitement on every pitch (the Japanese and Korean teams played the same daring style during last spring's World Baseball Classic). The contemporary big-league game is all about working the count and hoping for the long ball. Putting on a play more often -- e.g. steal, bunt, hit-and-run -- creates a much more exciting product.

[Phil]

Being out of the playoffs for two decades and refusing to act like the 4th biggest market in N. America is why I refuse to go any longer. If they want fans back I think they will have to show they are willing to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox or they might as well start looking for a US city to move this franchise to.

[Rick]

The numbers were down in April because the team told fans this year was a lost season.

When the team started to play exciting baseball, attendance rose in the summer.

They are out of the race and all the kids are back in school this week, so the numbers dip again.

The numbers are only puzzling if you look at them without consideration.

[Jays fan]

Maybe if media like the Star didn't relegate the Jays to back pages of the sports section (unlike, say, the God awful Leafs, who seem to enjoy front page coverage for every yawn-inducing head office PR stunt) it would help generate some enthusiasm for the team again.

[R. Bullock]

Attendance is down, yes. Why? Several reasons...

The Yankees and Red Sox will continue to buy up all the most expensive players, the rest will want to play somewhere other than Toronto. Why would / should fans support that? Yeah, lets go see a bunch of guys play for a team that none of them would choose to play for! The Blue Jays players would rather be somewhere else, period. Toronto in baseball is what Quebec City used to be for hockey players. Only players from the area may want to play there. Some got sent / traded there as punishment. Places where Free Agents rarely sign, unless nobody else wants them. That's Toronto Blue Jays Baseball.

I used to be a huge Expos fan, there was a time, believe it or not, where there was no better place to watch a game than in Montreal. Through the late '70s and early'80s, rain outs killed the Expos, season after season. Then came the '90s, the Jays won he series twice in a row (92, 93). Then in '94, it looked as if the Expos would keep the Canadian World series titles going at three in a row. It was looking like a Montreal vs New York Yankees World Series.

Then the strike happened and the season was never finished. At the time the average Baseball salary was well over a million per season. The Expos never got their Championship. If the World Series looked like, say... LA vs NY, or a New York or Chicago subway series, do you think the season would have been lost, or do you think there would have been a more concerted effort to save the season. Ratings in the US are not good when a Canadian team wins the series don't cha know. Hey, remember that fond memory of the Canadian Flag being flown in the World Series for the first time ever? Y'know when it looked like they were holding our flag upside down, accidentally, wink wink. (BTW - Being a flag bearer would fall under strict protocol of that organization - coast guard - military etc..., and things like that are double and triple checked. It was done on purpose.)

More recently with everything coming out about steroids, you have to assume they all were cheaters, even Roger. The owners knew about it and turned a blind eye. That makes them cheaters as well. Records fell and Baseball history was rewritten and ruined. Get this little piece of irony, people in baseball still get mad when you get caught stealing signs on the base paths!?!

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemons. The best hitter and pitcher of their eras, arguably. Warm and fuzzy kind of folks, y'know real likeable guys!

So, I wonder, why is baseball attendance down? Hmmm.

[Cameron]

in my opinion fans have lost their faith in the blue jays organization commitment to winning.everytime a players such as shawn green,carlos delgado,roy halladay are traded away or let to leave the fan's sense diminishing commitment from the team and interest wanes.it's a difficult trend to reverse,something that takes years to build back up the fan's trust that their team really is all about winning and not just convenient programming for their cable system.

[Thom Corner]

I stopped paying serious attention to this team when they let Alomar leave. That was the first sign that the team was about to re-make its image from a large-market contender to a small-market also-ran. Yes, they have had some great players, but no great teams, since then. But they have generally traded away superstars, or let them walk. They begin each year conceding the top two or three spots to the Yankees, Red Sox and now Tampa Bay. so third or fourth place is the best we can expect. And we are supposed to buy tickets? For what?

[Bob Holden]

I now live on the west coast which is why I rarely attend games now, but I formerly had a one sixth interest in a pair of season's tickets.

I think that this year's addition of the Blue Jays is the most exciting and promising in many years. I may be in a minority but I don't think Skydome (Rogers Centre why?) is a good place to watch a ball game in Toronto especially in April/May/September/hopefully October.

I have no idea why the Rogers brainlesstrust has blacked out a high proportion of it's potential fanbase with its Sportsnet One shenanigans. It is certainly exciting not being able to watch the birds on TV, about the same as not being able to watch them live. Turn back the calender to 1977-1984 and see hownLabatt's/Howard Webster et al promoted the product in that old dump at the CNE. Now that was atreat of a place to take in a game in the spring or fall.

[Vince Last]

The problem with the Jays is the location of the Rogers stadium. Most of the parking has been taken over by high rise condos. The food concessions are too expensive. the team is mediocer.

There is an overall lack of interest in paying for obscene salaries to players who don't have a batting average over 300.

Baseball is on the way out in Toronto.

[Player87]

Everyone has made good points about why the attendance is down. I have 3 main reasons 1. Paul Beeston - he has really made some bad moves - not a customer friendly man - don't understand why he's still got a job. He's living off past accomplishments. Retire. 2. Rogers - someone said it right "the most hated company in Canada" I don't want to give them a dime. 3. Concessions - unbelievable prices, such bad quality. It's a pathetic joke on paying customers. Someone really needs to send all this info to Rogers and the Jays. They seemingly have no clue as to what's happening. The Sportnets One fiasco is bad business but no one cares. Another one said it well - wallet closed.

[Tom]

Who wants to continue to support the farm system for the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox? I don't understand why anyone would support a team outside of those two cities. Basketball is well on it's way to becoming the same thing. The fans know before the season begins that baseball and basketball now, are more like staged wrestling matches, with predetermined winners, than a sports league where everyone is on a level playing field and anyone can win. Baseball is great as long as you live in New York or are a Yankees fan. Most of us hate their guts and get sick of seeing them win year after year. I'm finished spending my money to support their greed and obsessive need to always be the winner.

[gc]

Just as the Leafs are becoming a pay per view team, it seems Rogers has the Blue Jays on the same course. I have no intention of subscribing to Blue Jay TV to watch a bloody baseball game. I admit that the Leafs can do whatever they want and people will still bend over and take more. However, you would think the lesson of the Blackhawks would scare the Jays into keeping as many games available to everyone.

However, sports is rapidly becoming the sole purview of the wealthy, so I'm not surprised it's going this way nor am I surprised that Rogers would be rushing up to the trough, it does seems to be what they're best at.

[Hoofheartz]

If the Jays want to increase attendance all they have to do is put Maple Leaf Jerseys on the players. Toronto fans have proven they'll flock to watch the Leafs no matter how bad they are.

[Dean Fink]

From my perspective the reasons are fairly straight forward:
1) the team hasn't been competitive since the strike and has been rebuilding for years - build a true competitor and they will come
2) the strike - we have long memories
3) Rogers -the gang that couldn't shoot straight -Curly Larry and Moe must be alive and living in their corporate offices - the Jays on a channel no-one gets is really 'brilliant' - gutting the Fan by replacing knowledgeable, credible, broadcasters with a bunch of shock jocks may appeal to a few young people but they are not the ones who go to games
4) The concessions are 'terrible' and that's the only non profane word I can come up with at the moment
5) I used to share season tickets but they are priced out of my ability to pay -perhaps someone should indicate to over priced, under-performing ball players that there is a recession

[Paul]

Huge fan...in fact my first born child was born Oct 15, 1993..... totally fitting our families pashion for the Jays. From my point of view...two things...both already pointed out here, but they truly do resonate with me, one, the Rogers "bad will" factor in some of their other business' like TV/Internet/Mobile as gouging and two SNET-1. Brutal. So next year will they introduce another pay channel half way through the season to see 20 games and the year after that another. They need to find revenue streams that actually add value not just demand more money for yesterdays service. Remember the CFL experience with blocking fans accessibility ???.

[Olin Lovely]

I went to my first Jays game five years ago, was a long time fan for many years before that. I can see why many fans would say the place is a dump...when I went there the rooof was closed and I was very disappointed, I felt like I was at the KingDome...wanted to see a game under the stars (or at least what you call stars in the city) and then they opened the roof...amazing....watching that roof roll back...humidity roll in and then the CN tower...whoohoo!

Listen, all stadiums get boring after a while, put a winning team on the field and let people across the country enjoy in the Jays experience (the Jays are Canada's team unlike those markets in the South)....knock off this Sportsnet One experience, let us outside Toronto watch the games....the current situation is total BS.

A die hard Jays fan since 1985.

[Julie]

i am SO SICK of hearing about how the jays aren't good value for money, the skydome sucks, people are sick of rogers, etc, etc.

last time i checked, the beloved maple leafs had not won a stanley cup in 43 years. their tickets are the most expensive in the nhl - and the food at the acc, in case you hadn't noticed, is not ANY cheaper than food at the skydome. but somehow you don't hear anybody making the same pathetic excuses about the leafs.

we're not going to get a new stadium anytime soon, toronto, nor are we moving out of the AL east - so put your big girl panties on, suck it up, and get going to baseball games!! it's about time we started supporting a team that actually has a hope of winning a championship sometime in the next 5 years (unlike those beloved and TERRIBLE leafs).