Sucker Punch Or No Sucker Punch?

Amongst a certain portion of hockey fans, this will be an intriguing debate.

Not for me, sadly, because I've long taken the position that any bare-knuckle brawling in the NHL or hockey in general is, in the end, completely pointless. So it's hard for me to get too excited about debating the merits of Tim Gleason's nasty punch on Nikolai Kulemin Monday night in Raleigh. All I see is an incident that had almost nothing to do with the hockey game result in what may be a serious injury, an incident that would not be allowed on the street or in the other major sports.

But, as many have pointed out repeatedly, there's a big chunk of the hockey populace who not only likes this stuff, but thinks it's important, integral to the sport.

Even among them, however, there is going to be division on this incident.

Was Gleason, the Caroina defenceman, well within his rights to haul Kulemin out of a scrum and - we suspect - rearrange his facial features? It was a 10-man scrum that neither player started, but both men started exchanging gloved jabs to the face, and then Gleason separated the Russian from the pack and delivered his uppercut.

One school of thought says that once Kulemin starts throwing 'em, he deserves the outcome.

Then, however, there will be those who would argue that Gleason should have identified Kulemin as, essentially, a non-combatant who doesn't drop his gloves and scrap. In fact, in this case, it was only Gleason who dropped his gloves.

To those that espouse the always mysterious "code," Gleason had no business under any circumstance punching out the Leaf winger, who is likely to miss tonight's game against Tampa with a face and/or head injury.

So to you, fight fans, I look for guidance. Was Gleason right or wrong? Should Kulemin have known what was coming, or should he have as a player who never fights some sort of special protection under the code?

Ron Wilson said it wasn't a sucker punch. Some of his playes disagreed.

Now I await your verdict.

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

[Rick Baldesarra]

Gleason should have known that Kulemin is a non-combatant and should have held up in the same way that Macarthur held up with Larose. Gleason should be reprimanded by the league for 'goonery.' Did you see Phaneuf try and come to Kulemin's rescue? That was funny! Now if Wendel Clark was around, we all know that the 'good captain' would have stuck up for his mate. Where were Kulemin's mates to bang some of their guys. The Leafs should have become a nastier team after that incident, but they rolled over as usual. They battled in the scoring but mot in the alley. Conn Smythe must be disappointed with this groupd of wimps...Truculence?????P-l-e-a-s-e!

[Scott]

As you pointed out today, Damien, Kulemin threw at least two -- albeit gloved -- punches before he took one. That's a fight, in my books. It's not like they were just holding onto each other and then Gleason decided to throw a punch.
This wasn't a cheap shot. It was one guy winning a fight and the other (or at least his mates) calling foul.
Kulemin needs to understand if you throw punches you better expect to get them back.

[John Cowan]

Damien -

I was sitting three rows from the glass by the corner of the Canes bench last night. Right where the incident happened.

I am generally an advocate that if you are going to push buttons and mix it up, you better be ready for whatever the outcome is.

However...

Kulemin was *clearly* just trying to do his part to 'man up' as the scrum began. The look on his face when Gleason started jabbing him in the face with his gloves was one of complete surprise. He was clearly just trying to defend himself until referees could break up the dance party. Gleason throwing off his gloves and clocking him was ridiculous. I mean seriously. Code, no code. If you want to fight, you take on someone in your own 'weight class' or at least a willing combatant. The FIRST thing I said to the guy beside me was "oh no, Gleason is in big trouble." That was my first reaction. I'm glad the refs ejected him... for his own good. He would have been at risk himself in the 2nd period.

[Steve C.]

Bare-knuckling somebody in the face while they still have their gloves on IS a sucker punch in hockey. Gleason knows this, Wilson knows this, YOU know this. Also, dropping them against a known non-fighter IS against 'the code'. Again, everybody knows this. Despite what you think, I'm quite sure there are very few who believe this was an acceptable part of the game.

[Stu]

Not a sucker punch. Kulemin did not drop his gloves but he did hit Gleason in the face with gloves on. I don't think Gleason deserved a game misconduct for one punch. It seems he was penanlized not for the act but for the result.

[pylon]

Yes it was a bit of a sucker shot, but at the same time, Kulemin willfully engaged Gleason in the scrum and therefore should have been more prepared. I thought the penalties were appropriate. A Game Misconduct for Gleason, and a broken beak and a lesson learned for Kulemin. Probably won't see a suspension here

The more disturbing trend is why any attempt at a big hit has to be met with some sort of a scrum now. It adds nothing to the game and frankly, instead of making players look tough, makes them look like they can't handle the ego bruise of getting knocked down. Whatever happened to "taking a number" and trying to line up your own clean hit later on?

There should be an immediate instigator penalty and a game misconduct for any player fighting to avenge a clean check.

[PK]

This kind of reminds of the Scott Walker incident with Aaron Ward a couple years back.

I think it was. You show your intentions or acceptance to a fight in hockey by dropping your gloves. In this case, Kulemin did not, in essence showing that he was not interested in getting in a tussle with Gleason.

[Jack]

As you said, maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Debating that won't change the outcome. The right thing to do is get them back by injuring one of their smaller players, or their best player next time they play.

[Buck Anger]

Of you start putting your gloves in another players face you should expect some retailiation. No sucker punch here just a bad decision by a Leaf player.

[Braco]

So sucker punch is more important then hit on Savard that caused another head injury.Savard is again out of the game and you are writing about these goons, fighting.If they think they are tough,throw them in the cage with GSP so they get real beating.

[Team Canada 99]

It's the ol' "don't stick your hand in the cage, or you might get bit." If you don't want to get hit, don't go giving face washes and glove jabs to someone who can kick your butt. It doesn't matter if you like this part of the game or not. It's part of the game.
It was a reaction situation where Gleason took a couple of shots and delivered.
Two more points:
1. You can't blame someone for having good aim.
2. If the skate was on the other foot, the reaction would be reversed.

[Andrew]

It's hard for me to get too excited about debating the merits of Tim Gleason's nasty punch because I'm too excited that Damien Cox is leaving The Star.

[drin]

I wouldnt go as far as saying it was a sucker punch, but Gleason did jump the gun. Maybe next time wait till the other player realizes you dropped your gloves, so that he can do the same.

[Catti]

I watched the game last night and the replay a few times this morning. All I was able to make out from the footage was Kulemin stepping in between Gleason and the crowd of players, with his gloves on, and pushing (not shoving) Gleason, without throwing a punch. Then Gleason, whose gloves were off, cold-cocked Kulie in the face, and he went down. In my view, that's a sucker-punch. Players keep their gloves on and get in between fights or near-fights just to break them up all the time, without getting sucker-punched like that. It happens all the time in hockey. If you don't drop the gloves and you don't throw a punch, it means you're not looking for a fight, period.

[Jay]

Gleason well within his rights. Kulemin can't expect to throw em and hope the linesmen comes rushing in

[moe green]

Damien, I cannot comment on whether or not that punch broke "the code" I will only say this: I completely agree with you on this issue. For me, dropping the gloves should result in an automatic suspension. Definitely multiple games. I would still allow punching with gloves on. Make glove dropping enough to constitute an instigator penalty.

I am tired of hockey being the the only sport that allows what would be a crime on the streets to exist within it's rule book. In fact, I am tired of the NHL being such a poorly officiated sport when it comes to penalties. Anyway, that's the stuff of another discussion.

[Bill Gamba]

If you are a "non-combatant" then don't throw punches in a scrum. If Kulemin had just grabbed hold of Gleason then nothing would have come of it. He threw two punches in Gleason's face and then got what he deserved. Regardless of whether your gloves are on or off, don't throw punches unless you want to fight. The game misconduct penalty on Gleason was unwarranted, he got tossed for decisively winning the fight. Whether you like fighting or not, it is a part of the NHL and in my opinion Gleason did nothing wrong after taking two gloved shots to the face.

[Andrei]

As much as I love Kulemin and his ability to light a fire under Grabovski and the rest of the powerplay unit (a fire much needed in last night's dismal performance by the special teams) I would have to say that any player who willingly engages another in a scrum of gloved punches deserves the outcome.

Had Kulemin's glove eventually damaged Gleason's face, would we be singing a different tune? If you participate in the pushing and shoving, be prepared to take a swing. If you don't fight, leave the roughing to the guys that - unfortunately - get paid to do so. Since when did fighting become a job with a code instead of an emotional outcome between two players?

Finally, just wanted to add that when players publicly disagree with their coach on an opinion such as this, it says a lot about the amount of control a coach has over his team and the loyalty/respect of his players.

[28 OrrDomi]

As a player that has played organized Hockey for many years, Gleason broke the 'Code' twice & ultimately broke Kulemin' face. He should have A) identified that Kulemin is a non-fighter & B) once he did engage with him, Gleason should have waited for Kulemin to drop his gloves, instead of popping him right away. He took a page out of the Sean Avery playbook, & it absolutely was a cheap shot!

By the way Damien, had you played somewhat professionally, you would understand the importance of fighting & the 'Code'. Its absolutely necessary & not "completely pointless" as you referred to it. It is rather an integral part of the game. Just ask Wayne Gretzky - who by the way never fought - how important it is to be protected by an enforcer.

Although I disagree with you on this particular issue, I do generally enjoy your 'Spin' on sports.

[Simmer]

Was Kulemin outmatched? Absolutely.
Should Gleason be going after players who aren't in his same wight class let alone fighters? Absolutely not.

But I Gleason didn't go after him. Gloves on or not, Kulemin deserved what he got, he did start it. Perhaps we shouldn't look at Gleason not recognizing that Kulemin wasn't his equal in terms of a fight, but ask rather why Kulemin was punching someone that would respond in such a way. Hockey is a grown man's sport, Gleason isn't the kind of guy that will take punches and whine to the ref, there are consiquences for your actions.

[O.Boy]

Not pretty, but since when is getting a hockey glove to the face any different then a bare fist? Just because you have a glove on, you have the right to swat someone in the face?

I see many players who do that, I think many of them should get the same treatment Kulimen received. "Hey man, you want to swat me in the face - here's a real swat!"

If you're not the fighting kind, then don't stick your nose where it is going to get twisted out of shape.

[Mo]

I am tired of this, get rid of this crap from Hockey. This will only get fixed, when the cherries of the world are dead. TIRED, I stopped watching, until the sport is cleaned up.

[Eric G]

Well, I don't think the code is that "mysterious" -- if a guy doesn't drop the gloves, it means he ain't fighting. Also, looking at the video, Kulemin didn't start throwing gloved punches, Gleason did. I do agree that you've got to know, going into a scrum, that you might come out bloody and injured, but I imagine Gleason's probably pretty embarrassed that he dropped the gloves against a guy who doesn't fight. (And he should be.)

[Geoff Read]

I think fighting needs to be eliminated from the game for precisely this kind of reason. It's one thing when two willing combatants go at it and someone gets hurt. I mean, that's stupid too, but at least both guys go into it knowing the risks etc. But when you have a situation like this, where one guy can say that he thought it was a fight and so he dropped his gloves and he injured someone who clearly didn't want to fight, it shows how empty the rhetoric is that fighting allows the players to police themselves and so makes the game safer. It makes the game more dangerous - it leaves people seriously injured - and it needs to be eliminated.

And for the record, if we accept the framework that hockey fights are legitimate, I still think this qualified as a sucker punch.

[Mark]

Mr. Cox, your contemptuous, haughty tone does little to forward your anti-fighting agenda.

It's one matter to adopt a stance that goes against popular opinion (and study after study shows the ticket-buying public prefers fighting) - indeed, iconoclasts are often admirable. However, your credibility is undermined by the arrogance bubbling under the words you write. (Your use of quotation marks when referencing the players' "code" was especially juvenile.)

Keep fighting the good fight (assuming that's what you believe you're doing) but, please don't presume that base literary devices and thinly-veiled jabs at those who disagree with you will pass for legitimate discussion much less a convincing argument.