The Muscle Game

Some hockey fans would suggest this is the least important positional battle of the Maple Leafs pre-season.

Other more truculent types would say it's not only important, but pivotal to the potential success of the team.

Me? Given a choice, I'd probably go without either Jay Rosehill or Colton Orr, and go with a more complete player. it's certainly debatable whether you need a tough guy. Detroit hasn't dressed an enforcer for a while, while Vancouver charged all the way to the Stanley Cup final last spring without a designated muscle man (sadly, the 'Nucks have apparently decided that tremendous success was not enough. They've added goon Todd Fedoruk and lead the NHL in fighting majors this fall).

But this is the Leafs we're talking about, and Brian Burke's Leafs. No chance he'll want this team to go without an enforcer. Nuclear deterrent, is what he likes to call it. The favourite example of the need for such a player you'll hear in Leaf circles is that Chris Neil of the Senators, a frequent opponent, is less likely to be uber-aggressive when there's a big pair of fists waiting for him (Again, I don't buy this stuff, but many do.)

So it's gotta be Orr or Rosehill, unless you'd advocate the inclusion of both in the Leaf lineup, as some would. Orr, 28, has the bigger contract, a $1 million hit for each of the next two seasons, while Rosehill, 26, will earn $600,000 this season and then hit restricted free agency next summer.

Both are players who have had to make the most of limited skills to work/fight there way to the NHL. Rosehill, however, is clearly the more effective of the two with his gloves on, while Orr is a feared heavyweight, more so than Rosehill, who's more of a gamer.

So let's play the game; if you have to pick one, which one do you pick?

I'd go with Rosehill. He skates much better and is a much more effective forechecker. On occasion, he can take the puck to the net, although he's not a threat to score.

Orr, by contract, might be the NHL's least talented player. A poor skater, his stick is where rushes go to die. When in New York, he was often used in a checking role, but that element of his game seems to have evaporated since he signed with the Leafs.

Finally, facts is facts; with Rosehill as essentially a regular, the Leafs were a better team a year ago than when Orr was in the lineup. Clearly, the impact of either on a hockey game is limited, but Rosehill's ability to add energy in the 5-7 minutes he was allotted was greater.

Again, the best Leaf fourth line, based on the bodies out for practice on Monday, would be something like Phillipe Dupuis between Mike Brown and Matt Frattin. But Burke believes in the need for muscle, and it's his team. 

 

 

 

 

 

Comments

[Geoff Read]

You could add as well that Colton Orr's career is likely to end the next time he takes a solid punch to the jaw. Sad but true. And if that's not a good illustration of why it's time to eliminate fighting from the game, I don't know what is.

[Paul McDougall]

The Leafs problem is that, for all of Burke's talk about truculence, they lack team toughness. Having a bunch of lightweight forwards supplemented by one or two goons does not make you a tough team to play against, but that is exactly what the Leafs have.

There's not a single, true power forward in the lineup.I miss the days of Gary Roberts stapling guys to the boards while on the forecheck. Kadri at least tries, but he lacks size. The rest of the Leafs' forwards just circle away rather than make contact. Truculence? hardly

[moe green]

Good points Damien. I cringe every time Orr steps onto the ice. Or at least I don't expect anything good to happen. Aren't our boys - Phaneuf and Schenn for example - tough enough to fight their own battles? Seems to me most of our boys are tough enough to take on most of their guys. Since when do hockey players need others to fight their battles for them. And if the other team's goon wants a fight - don't give him the satisfaction. What are they worried about - getting called a 'fraidy cat?"

[Darren]

I definitely agree with your idea of Rosehill over Orr. The only thing that I don't like is Frattin on the 4th line. If he doesn't make the team he should be playing more minutes down on a Marlies scoring line!

[Jake]

What made the cup winning Philly Flyers tough wasn't so much the few goons they had but the willingness of everyone to throw body checks. But the fights got the headlines. Fact was they played a tough game.

[Jeff Prince]

As another commenter touched on, until the leafs bring in some power forwards who have skill and ability to rack up some points but can also throw the weight around and drop the gloves when necessary, the leafs need a heavy on the fourth line.

Damien how are you not convinced the leafs need an answer to the chris neil type? Remember 3 years ago when an 18 year old luke schenn was the guy dropping the mitts to defend his team? this was because other teams were running our top players knowing that there were no repercussions and no need to look over their shoulder. Colton Orr has that impact.

[Scot Loucks]

Agreed Darren, no way Frattin or any other decent prospect should be getting fourth line minutes.

[Chris]

Why does this team need an enforcer? Komasarek and Phaneuf, players who are actually useful ("useful" in the case of Komasarek) can do the "enforcing" just fine without wasting a bench spot.

On a team that's still lacking in talent, why waste even a 4th line spot on an enforcer? Also, who is he protecting? No one on this team deserves protection. Kessel? There's a reason why he was picked last in the all star team draft. Another thing. Isn't this team full of "truculence"? Makes no sense to protect "truculence".

[80s Leafs]

Agreed with the "keep Rosehill" sentiment. I have never embraced (or even hugged for that matter) Orr, although I do like him. But I always felt he was brought in to be "Tie Domi Jr" and he has never fit the bill that way. Not as popular a guy as Domi was, not as charismatic, and just not as good at giving a fan confidence he's gonna beat the crap out of the other guy just about every time.
I find Rosehill for some reason to just be more likeable, and while not yet considered among the top fighters in the league, to be game and willing every time to take on whoever, whenever, (see the Jody Shelley incident) and as pointed out, he can skate and cause havoc without being a total liability out there.

[Tom Soper]

First off, just about guaranteeing that this comment will not see the light of day, allowing the author to approve comments on his/her blog is not conducive to having open and honest dialogue.
Back on point, as a champion of the idea that at least one woman should gain entry to the Hockey Hall of Fame every year, your continual lobbying for less and less contact of all forms in the man's game does not surprise me. It would be refreshing to read something from you that doesn't ring with this same monotonous and high decibel whine.
When you are done with hockey (assuming you ever got your way - a zero contact game), you would likely move on to Football, and then the ultimate prize...Boxing, or the UFC. Imagine those games without hitting...somewhere between the bland and the ridiculous is what they would be - as would NHL hockey without the physical struggle, contact, hitting...and yes, even fighting.
I think you used the term "pansification" the other day...I think this borders on a sexual orientation slur, so I won't use it. But, what you seem to want is hockey to become a "politically correct" sport where nobody ever gets hurt, and everybody just plays nice. Not going to happen...and don't want it to happen.

[Dave]

Agree with Jake above...we are not tough enough as a team. And, Damien, your position on this has been the same for years. Thank goodness you're not picking the team...you'd have Kaberle, Jonus Hoglund, Nik Antropov types in abundance. You probably just loved Inge Hammarstrom back in the old days.

[James Jack]

Although I agree that players like Schenn, Phaneuf and Komisarek can do some of the spadework in truculence, the value of players like Rosehill and Orr are that losing them to the penalty box doesn't cost the team real talent lost minutes from a game. Notice that when Leafs play Detroit, neither Rosehill or Orr will dress. The enforcer/goon mentality is what drives Burke and any reasonably intelligent GM to keep players around that can take five minute majors and not cost the team. It is a viscious cycle that would stop with a rule like a concurrent penalty to another player on the ice at the time of the fight.

[joe jacobs]

Damien,

Since no one else on here has raised an eyebrow about why you would write this article, I will.

You can't very well expect to have immunity to write a piece like this and then also imagine your integrity about the issue of fighting in hockey and the crazy damage it does to the brain pans of the combatants is not left tarnished. And 'no', a couple of weak quips about how you kinda wish you weren't doing this in the first place doesn't change 'jack'.

You still gave this barbaric position, the 'enforcer', some air time. And given your position of power and I believe your 'professed' beliefs, it was a mistake.

This is the 'slippery slope' at work. Where we forget about the past and what we learned and just go back to how things were. It's what owners and commissioners always assure stakeholders will eventually happen. People will forget and move on.

I won't give you too hard a time, cause you have contributed greatly to a possible future vision of both hockey and masculinity that doesn't value brawn over brains to such a dysfunctional extent.

However, articles like this undo, if only a little, the strong points you make otherwise.

How about we don't want either of these guys to take on this role so that they reduce the chance they will be plagued by debilitating depression and possibly even kill themselves at some point?! Is that too strong? Too morbid?

There should be no room for enforcers in the NHL, as there shouldn't be a place for fighting. Players should be strong, tough and skilled because that should be the nature of our 'beautiful game'.

Period!
Stick to your guns!

[WaC]

Vancouver looked like they were going to win the Cup until that disaster of a Game 6. They could have used an enforcer at the end of that game when Marchand was punching Sedin in the face. Would that have changed anything in Game 7? I doubt it, but you never know.

As for whether the Leafs need an enforcer at all, I suppose an enforcer would serve a purpose if only to keep the more valuable players out of the penalty box. Other teams might start to target Phaneuf, Schenn, etc. to coax them into fights.

[redsignal]

Damien is as right as rain on this one. The Leafs don't need a goon like Orr. They need a guy who is tough, but who can also play some hockey. With the abysmal PK the Leafs have, a lead footed liability like Orr is the last thing you need on the ice.

[Mark]

Pretty sure I've heard/read Damien comment many times that the Leafs always rush their prospects to the big club too soon.

And now he's saying if he were coach, he'd keep Frattin and put him on the 4th line for 7 minutes a game.

I get the point, you don't think enforcers have value. But if they did keep Frattin I'm sure we'd read something from you down the line about how they weren't patient with him.

[johnnyk]

Years ago no team had a goon. They did have really tough guys, though, who could actually play hockey. Guys like Gordie Howe, Rocket Richard and Doug Harvey. Guys who put in 25 minutes plus every game at the highest levels of skill.

[Mark]

@Jeff Prince,

Show me a case of one hockey player, ever, saying, "well I would have taken a run at player X, but they had player Y. Schenn "stood up" for teammates because thats what the BS "code" told him he should do. But his doing so made it no more or less likely that Kessel was going to take a hit. Ditto Orr, etc.

[Mapleloaf]

I would love to see the Leafs start the year with a fourth line based on speed and tenacity and some skill. I think a Lombardi, Frattin, and Brown line would be a great energy line that could outskate and outskill other 3 - 4th lines or even serve as a shutdown line at times. No doubt there would also be some games where one of Orr or Rosehill would be needed.

[John Bastedo]

Damien,

An ideal blog entry. Touched on your reluctance and stated your opinion if you had to choose - much appreciated. I was surprised, as other commentors have pointed out, that you included Matt Frattin as a fourth liner. Is this an indication that you're convinced he does not have top 6 potential? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but burying a promising kid on the end of the bench sounds like the type of short-sighted move you would be critical of - unless you figure his ceiling is a solid third-line type, in which case that assignment would be more appropriate.

Can we get a "Who'd make up my third line" blog post before that decision is made?

J.

[Jeff]

Cant we just go the Habs route? Who is their tough guy? If the Leafs play well defensively, forget about tough guys and just play hockey they will be fine. They have potentially four 30 goals scorers in the line up plus the additions made by Burke. I'm looking for Grabovski to have another breakout year. Goals last year: Kessel 32, Kulemin 30, Grabo 29, MacArthur 21.
Sure have either Rosehill or Orr in the lineup, doesn't matter which one. Because of the duties of their role, they're at risk of injury for sure. Rosehill and Orr are each others backup. The coach has to use them effectively even it means not using them at all.

[gordon]

Twice now this calendar year (2011) I've seen shoutouts by Damien Cox directed at the commenting crowd. Both times it is pretty easy to deduce Cox is receiving abuse for his latest column. Its like he's new to the internet or something and isn't used to the trolls that have been posting to message boards for at least the last 12 years that I've had an internet connection. It isn't right Damien that they do ruin what should be a calm, informative interaction. But understand, they don't disagree with YOU Damien, they just enjoy being the ornery SOB's that they are. Sincerely Damien, you are one of, if not THE best hockey columnist in the Toronto area. I don't say that to butter you up, I say that because everyone I've ever asked always mention you - first or second. By shouting back at trolls you feed them, and thats all they really want, a free dinner.