How to get the 905 to love road tolls

Would those of us in the 905 ante up $5 for the privilege of sitting on the Gardiner Expressway two hours a day? Particularly if the five bucks was going to expand the Toronto subway system? The short answer, if the poll was strictly 905, is absolutely not!

If the question was slightly different the answer may be the reverse.

I avoid driving into Toronto. The last time I was forced into daily trips for work was five winters ago while restoring a house in Rosedale. Toronto is not particularly truck friendly, parking is restricted and the Green Hornets seem to stake out residential construction sites.

The trip, from home in south east Mississauga was 1 to 1 ½ hours each way, gas was about $120 a week, parking tickets $25 to $50 weekly. Any fiscally responsible contractor has to build this cost into the contract, so in this situation the extra $10 daily would be born by a Toronto resident.

Therefore, if the funding from tolls goes to the Toronto Transit Commission, that’s fine. Personally, I chose to work closer to home. Most people who make this daily pilgrimage do not have the luxury of a choice.

As chair of the Legacy Foundation, I often go to Toronto for meetings and I always take the GO train.

Herein lies the problem for a 905er with the funding going to subway expansions.

The Long Branch GO station is a mile and a half from my house at Cawthra and Lakeshore. The GO parking lot is continually full and street parking is impossible, which leaves Mississauga Transit the only option.

Here is how the trip plays out. I dutifully wait for Mississauga Transit, until I get bored, which takes five minutes, and then I walk east towards Long Branch. The Mississauga Transit bus usually passes me when I am within 200 metres of the GO station. Clearly an improved subway system in Toronto is not going to alleviate the challenge of getting people in the 905 out of cars and into transit. Toll fees directed to that end will not engender buy-in from anyone outside of Toronto.

From a 905 perspective, if the funding were going to Metrolinx to harmonize public transportation on a regional basis, I believe there would be wide support for tolls.

Transit in the GTA has traditionally taken a fortress mentality, there have been pitched battles in the past over the use of bus stops, and municipal schedules rarely connect. The problem is not so much public transit in Toronto; the problem for us is getting to it. Metrolinx was established to solve this dilemma and they have an expansive plan, “The Big Move”, to resolve this disparity.

Use the toll money for regionally improved, frequent service and I might occasionally take the car downtown just so I can contribute my $5.

About Jim Tovey

Comments

[G. Powell]

Roads Tolls = forget it.

Unless the various levels of government are prepared to eliminate gas taxes, tire taxes, and vehicle registration fees, the motoring public will fight road tolls to the death. Motorists are all ready paying more than enough for the so-called priviledge, although I would argue for most it is a necessity, of driving and commuting. Road tolls are just another level of taxation by any other name, and frankly the public is fed up with ever increasing taxes being foisted upon them because governments cannot live within their means.

[Mike Webster]

I don't care where they want to direct the money, I would never support road taxes. If they want to fund transit improvements, charge those who use the service a ticket or pass surcharge to pay for it. I don't expect transit riders to pay for my gas or my parking so why should they expect me to pay for their subway ride?

[hotdog876]

We can have road tolls here is how to do it. Implement them and waive the tolls for Toronto residents. Only tax the people that telecommute into the city or the people that have to use our part of the highway. Secondly, we should contact the other GTA mayors and see if they are willing to do the same. So we can share the cost of administrating the road tolls. If we go it alone then $5 is not enough, more like, $8 for entering the city that will force people to car pool. If the other GTA mayors join in then we can reduce it to $7. If people do not pay then they can't renew their driver license just like the 407.

[Herb Maul]

HA HA HA. That is too funny. Yeah like the money would go to fixing the congestion problem and better public transportation? Come on get real!

[winston]

The improved transit has to happen before the tolls. We simply do not have the sophistication and convenience in our public transit system -- TTC included, but it's worse in the 'burbs -- to get away with tolls/congestion fees before huge improvements occur. This isn't Paris, London, or New York. You should try taking getting to the Pickering GO station by bus at any time other than rush hour.

The Lakeshore GO line is pretty good, but you're right about parking and service will need to be ramped up significantly in order to get more people to use the service into and out of Toronto. But what about other lines, particularly those that pass through more residential areas? What will be done about someone coming in from, say, Markham & 7? Or Vaughan?

People may support it, but we need to see the services put in place and tolls used to retroactively fund the increased services and ongoing maintenance. The question is whether decades of sprawl and lack of density will make this increase in service possible.

[Robert]

Who cares about buy in from outside of Toronto, they don't vote for city council. I suspect that the majority of those who actually live in the city of toronto would be for tolls along DVP and Gardiner. It is of course only during peak times when its better to take transit anyway. It would have to dual purpose of easing congestion and paying for transit, win-win. Keep in mind that 905ers do not pay taxes in the city of Toronto yet Torontonians need to pay services and traffic jams from 905 sprawlers. Its time to take our city back, its time for better transit for this city, its time for leadership on this issue.

[Kin Cheung]

Road toll fees to expand the Toronto Subway system?
They don't even have enough money to maintain the present system in a state of good repair! Where will the money
come from to maintain an expanded system? Until they can
come up with a workable funding formula (ie. Federal & Provincial subsidies, increase ridership, increase corporate advertising, etc) they will merely expand an existing problem. Do we really need more areas of Toronto
poorly served by the TTC?

[John Stevens]

Each system must support itself. Put tolls on and make our roads better, let the TTC dig itself out of its own overspending mess (TTC Rider).

[BiancaWithrow]

You can build amazing transit - the 905 crowd loves their cars. It's for Toronto's benefit. Call it what it is.

[PB]

This is one big issue that is often ignored.

It is horribly challenging for someone in the 905s, especially the fastest growing parts (Brampton/Mississauga/Milton) to get around with transit. Having a car actually costs less financially with way less time. Plus having to deal with different schedules for different services make it dreadful to get around.

If the gridlock situation needs addressing, it can not be done without harmonizing the transit system. Theoretically this should increase efficiency and reduce cost across the board, but then again given the various transit commissions' track record this may be totally utopian.

[John Fleming]

I urge you to consider the issue in the light of the latest report from Richard Branson et al.:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/feb/07/branson-warns-peak-oil-close

[Joe R]

Yeah, I'd love to pay a $5 toll to help Giambrone cover his debts!

[Dee Tea]

Maybe I'm missing something, but this article seems to be regarding Mayoral Candidate Sarah Thomson's proposal to have $5 tolls on the DVP and Gardiner. I guess, the part I'm missing is "who cares what the 905ers think". Now, I'm a 905er, but Sarah Thomson isn't looking for our support, she is looking for the support of the electorate of the city of Toronto. With this idea, she is proposing a new revenue source which comes predominately from non-Toronto residents. If she really wanted to expand on this, she would allow exceptions to the tolls, for anyone who has their car registered (the car tax) within the City of Toronto. This would provide a new revenue source without any cost to the residents. So in the end, making 905ers happy does nothing to advance Ms. Thomson's campaign, but focusing on the 416ers happiness does a lot.

While in principle I agree with your comments that the public transit system throughout all of the GTA needs to be improved, this would be more in the domain of Queens Park, not City Hall.

[K.B]

Couldn't agree more with you sir.

If I was to take Durham Region Transit from my home in Whitby to the Whitby GO Station. I'd be looking at an extra 30 minutes travel time - where driving would only take 10, not to mention the comparable gas to bus fare conversion. It just doesn't make sense to use transit when I can drive. I don't drive to work, but I'd never be surprised that someone had.

[CrankyOldMan]

The maintenance of both the Gardiner Expressway and the Don Valley Parkway is entirely the responsibility of the City of Toronto. The Province of Ontario downloaded the responsibility, and the cost, to Toronto as part of their "Who Does What" review in the late 90s.

The only politicians who should have a say in this matter are Toronto City Councillors as these roads are fully funded by local taxpayers in Toronto. I personally would prefer that a regional body, such as Metrolinx , should assume that responsibility, but until the opinions of 905 voters just don't matter.

[Neal]

Rubbish

This is another tax, Canada and Ontario will simply tax residents to death and there after.

After this budget and forecasts it looks like I am out of here. I cannot continue to work my entire career and retirement simply to pay taxes and taxes and fees and fees. I am finally beginning to understand why so many on welfare now in Canada. Makes sense. Why fight it?

[Carlo A]

As a 416'er working in 905.. I like your rephrasing of the question.. All your points are valid.. There MUST be a quid pro quo for the 905 to buy into the road tolls, DUH.. It's amazing in Japan, how people can have gated townhouse mansions 4 hours drive outside of Tokyo, but only need to take the train 2 hours in for their job in Tokyo !! The trains are FAST, ON TIME (come heaven or hell), and often even EXPRESS with no intermediate stops.. I used to live in Hong Kong in the 80's, and it's amazing how you can get from the farm lands bordering China, into the southern most tip of the island within 2 hours via bus, train, and bus.. You could not even do a bus, train segment in 2 hours in the GTA..

[steve jones]

I agree with you that it would be more palatable if there was a guarantee that the road tolls would go to fund a regional transit strategy. However, the Gardiner and DVP are Metro Toronto roads and as such any revenue derived from them would be claimed by Toronto and would be a "Tax" on the 905. Your solution needs to be expanded such that Transit becomes a regional authority for the betterment of the entire GTA and not simply a TTC centric. It would not be prudent to have Toronto or the TTC control regional transit as they have already proven to be incompetant in this regard. A properly functioning Regional Transit Authority including all the stakeholders would be more effective and could bring additional business opportunities to the GTA

[Fenn]

I am all for this plan by one of our aspiring mayoral candidates. She doesn't have a lot of the political background that one might usually look for, which can only be a good thing, but she seems to have keen business sense. I believe she's under billed the cost of the subway but that's the way it is. And honestly all major metropolises do this. Congestion taxes and tolls it's how you pay for infrastructure, there ain't something for nothing.

[Kim Kwok]

From a 905 north perspective with fixed income, how can we afford $5 each day to go to Toronto's working??? We are not in a chair position salary, and how often do you go to Toronto's meeting (daily)??? I do not think so. We would like to take advantage with free charged highway and have no problem with Go train system.
If your local transportation system has been taking long to arrive each stop, you should ask your region to improve the time frame for this bus.

[Jon]

No way do 905ers want to pay for the gaffs of Toronto's fiscal mismananagement. The toll is just another duty tax levied against the more burdened middle and lower class. Jim Tovey seems like a reasonably successful guy, and maybe 5$ a day is not issue to him. But that is 100$ a month that a commuter now has to find in his wallet.
Why not ask Toronto to pay to beef up Mississauga and the surrounding area, instead, since all they are doing is asking for people that live outside the city, to support a city they don't live in. Toronto already benefits from the commuters. The businesses they work for generate revenue and pay taxes there. They spend there own dollars locally at restaurants etc at lunch, and on local services like car repair. They are already paying.
The standard of living is declining for most people, blatent taxes and taxes hidden as fees are continully on the rise while wages and income shrink. It is rediculous to think that with the inflated prices most venues in Toronto charge (to pay their own rent), and the cost of parking (if you can find it), people would now be expected to fork over more just to drive to or through there. Do the people who claim they have Toronto's best interests at heart really have a clue? The thing that makes the city attractive is having accessible and desireable venues. It is the buzz of people coming to town and talking about coming to town that creates the vibrant city we claim to want/have. With a properly managed and regulated economy prices should go down not up, and city councilours should be paying attention to fixing the problems the city already has, not creating make work projects that inflate the cities deficit, causing them ask everyone else to dig deeper, while they can vote for pay raises at any time, and recieve perqs for being a local councillor.

It is a very simple principle. If you price out the people you want to buy your product, then you'll sell no product, and the company folds. The city councillors are out of touch, and you need to let them know at the voting booth.

[darkenergy]

This is like a punishment for 905 residences. $5 dollar per day is too much. The Go transit services from Brampton to Toronto are terrible. Always late, train is full, and parking is full and far. Especially in winter. Most high class jobs are in Toronto, and manufacturing jobs are in 905 areas. This is not to help the traffic, even if the cost would be 5 dollars per day, many people still have to drive to Toronto. Especially if you have to be at work on time and drop kids at their school. Please come up with a better plan!

[Rob]

No thanks.
Let's see:
You already tax auto insurance profits, gas, licenses, mechanic profits, car dealerships, aftermarket part companies, vehicle plates, and our homes for transit and roads.

Recede some of those and we'll think about it.

[K. Hart]

One more reason to keep me out... of MY Toronto! My birthplace - going on 53 years ago. They've taken away most of the things I grew up with already; The Terrace Roller Skating (among others), Maple Leaf Gardens, the summner Yonge St. Mall, Riverdale Zoo, The Planetarium, & most of the feature attractions at the CNE. Now you want me to PAY to come to a place where I'm stuck in traffic jams, risk my safety from crime, drug dealers, etc.? I currently live in Mississauga but seriously considering moving to Hamilton.

[Trevor]

Everytime this discussion comes up, it is presented without alternatives. For example, how would charging a toll decrease the traffic? It won't, because there is no feasible and practical alternative to travelling downtown. Therefore, the investment should first be made in public transit, more subway and train lines at affordable prices and then the toll can be charged. I think the TTC has to start evaluating its budget and investments on a return on investment basis.